[12:10] <holstein> zequence: Len-nb ping
[12:10] <holstein> would either of you have some time to talk with las in #ardour ?
[12:11] <holstein> !proaudio
[12:41] <scott-work> zequence: i have posted a blog post and a g+ post about stepping down. i should get it to the mailing list shortly
[12:47] <zequence> holstein: About Ubuntu Studio?
[12:48] <zequence> scott-work: Ah, yep. I will reply in a few moments :).
[12:48] <holstein> zequence: correct
[12:50] <holstein> zequence: las was having issues with the pulse to jack bridge in stock ubuntu
[12:50] <holstein> users of ardour having issues
[12:50] <holstein> he's working on documentation for them
[13:23] <len-1304> holstein, It is likely any such documentation will be out of date already
[13:23] <len-1304> There have been changes to pulse code that has taken care of the major pa-jack issues.
[13:30] <len-1304> scott-work, Don't be a stranger, we will continue to welcome whatever input you do have if you have time.
[13:50] <falktx> hey zequence
[13:52] <falktx> zequence: first of, congrats
[13:52] <falktx> do you have a minute?
[14:04] <scott-work> thanks len, i do have a few ideas
[14:04] <zequence> falktx: sure, thanks
[14:05] <scott-work> i was thinking about the possibility of adding a "first-run" script that asks the user if they wanted to add falktx 's kxstudio repository
[14:05] <scott-work> _that_ would also be good for a ubuntu studio controls app as well ;)
[14:06] <falktx> zequence: I have to say in all honesty, I don't think you're the right man for the job
[14:06] <falktx> zequence: it seems to me you don't understand how some things work, under the hood, and that is a bit bad
[14:06] <falktx> zequence: I hope you do a good job though!
[14:07] <falktx> for me, pure Debian or Ubuntu is too limiting, and too much burocracy
[14:07] <falktx> I'm doing my own thing but trying to make it as much generic as possible, so it can be used by anyone
[14:08] <zequence> falktx: I don't know everything yet, but things are progressing on the technical side. But, you should know that you will probably not meet someone soon who has as broad understanding of mainly audio production on levels as I, and I am good at organizing
[14:08] <falktx> zequence: scott-work: Sorry I couldn't get Cadence to work in time
[14:08] <zequence> I also became member of Debian Multimedia Team yesterday
[14:08] <zequence> My goal is to improve the whole infrastructure, in all the areas where we are suffering
[14:09] <zequence> And to do that, one needs to communicate with all parties
[14:09] <zequence> The burocracy is not a problem IMO. It's actually more of a do-ocracy
[14:10] <zequence> As long as what you want to do is good for the community, and not only for yourself. Ubuntu Studio is a multimedia distro, not only for audio
[14:10] <zequence> Any custom audio configs need to be configurable, if they are solely for pro audio
[14:10] <zequence> ..or get in the way of other things
[14:10] <falktx> sure
[14:10] <zequence> For this, it would be best to have a gui tool
[14:10] <falktx> in any case, I have set-up a PPA with just Cadence, if anyone wants to try
[14:11] <zequence> I have used it
[14:11] <zequence> Probably, I should be giving more feedback about it
[14:11] <zequence> Currently, I'
[14:11] <falktx> there's only a few things that need to be done for a v1.0 release
[14:11] <zequence> Currently, I would regard it as a nice app to have, as an alternative to other control apps
[14:11] <falktx> zequence: I welcome all bug reports here, https://github.com/falkTX/Cadence/issues :)
[14:12] <falktx> including feature requests
[14:12] <falktx> for now it's all about bug fixing and stability over features though
[14:13] <zequence> I have a lot of ideas on a control app for Ubuntu Studio, also another form of it that could be more of a generic app. I think in order for us to consider Cadence as a default app, or as a default Ubuntu Studio control app, we would need to work more closely on features
[14:14] <zequence> Right now, the most important things I see is that we get jackd working on any Ubuntu or Debian derivative, without too much work
[14:15] <zequence> I'd prefer to do it by getting through a policy change in Debian and Ubuntu concerning groups, but if that doesn't work, it would be nice if a tool could provice this  configuration
[14:15] <falktx> currently Cadence has 1 big flaw regarding Debian/Ubuntu - it needs jack2 to work
[14:15] <falktx> this is because default jack1 doesn't have dbus, it needs a patch
[14:16] <zequence> falktx: I guess you could add a function to it that greys out everything, if jackdbus is not aviable, and/or just inform the user
[14:16] <zequence> Don't know what issues there would be about patching it in Debian
[14:16] <zequence> I realize, jackdbus is the best default. I'm sorry there is a divide between some people about the development of jack
[14:17] <zequence> Would be nice if there was only one
[14:19] <len-1304> what advantage or in what situation would jack 1 be better?
[14:20] <zequence> falktx: When you speak about under the hood, you mean code. And yes, I'm not a coder. that is not my job anyway. My job is to ensure that Ubuntu Studio has the features that users want, and that we promote free software. The coding, I leave to the coders :)
[14:20] <zequence> As for Debian packaging, and Debian policy, it's just a matter for time before I learn all about it
[14:22] <falktx> zequence: I already disable things when jackdbus is not there, so we are on the same page :)
[14:22] <falktx> anyway, brb
[14:23] <zequence> len-1304: the picture I get is that there's a divide on how the application is coded, more than on what it does
[14:24] <zequence> las thinks jack1 is no good, but has problems with jack2 as well
[14:24] <zequence> I don't really know
[14:24] <len-1304> zequence, that is my take on it too
[14:25] <len-1304> jack2 has three threads instead of one... but they both have the saem api
[14:26] <len-1304> The only place I can see using jack1 is possibly when using netjack as the code is somewhat more mature
[14:31] <len-1304> zequence, I think out of the people involved in Studio, you have the clearest vision of where we should go, plus drive to get there and more time than most.
[14:31] <len-1304> you have been willing to assign others to do things.
[14:32] <len-1304> I personally think these qualities are more valuable than expertise
[14:33] <zequence> len-1304: Thanks for the condidence. I truly do try to see the problem from the community point of view, and hopefully I can fill Scotts shoes and continue making US an even better OS
[14:34] <len-1304> I think your idea to grow the team and the time spent doing so are worth while as lack of people is the biggest problem
[14:36] <zequence> Yeah, all though we haven't done a lot of public posts about that yet, we have had a few people coming by, but most people don't stick around
[14:37] <zequence> I'm getting more pleased with the wiki now, which probably is not the most important part of the puzzle, but if I know all the relevant info is there, I will feel more confident when actively hunting for new users
[14:37] <zequence> devs, I mean
[14:37] <len-1304> I think people are impatient, nothing happens quickly here.
[14:38] <zequence> I don't know
[14:38] <len-1304> Well, my last fix did... two days fromfix to release :)
[14:39] <zequence> Someone comes by and says, what can I do? I tell them, first, get a LP account. Read this page. Come back tomorrow. Just some initial info. But, if they don't have the motivation, which is perfectly understandable, it's just hard to get any further than that
[14:40] <zequence> I think we were really lucky having madeinkobaia come by
[14:40] <zequence> I think he's really talented, and gets stuff done really quick
[14:40] <len-1304> yes
[14:41] <len-1304> I would really like to see at least one person for each of video,graphics, photography and publishing too.
[14:41] <zequence> len-1304: I agree
[14:41] <zequence> And those people don't need to do any coding at all. Just use the apps, and be able to communicate what should be changed, or improved
[14:42] <len-1304> Some one who uses the software on a daily basis 
[14:42] <len-1304> Yes.
[14:44] <len-1304> I see our job as assembling a group of packages and talking to those who do the coding about how they could make their package fit with what people are using it for.
[14:44] <zequence> Yeah. Either the problem is in packaging, and then we first fix it in Debian, or as a last resort add a patch in Ubuntu, or we get things changed/fixed upstream
[15:41] <zequence> falktx: Would you be interested in developing either your existing control gui tool, or a variant of it in collaboration with us, getting feedback about possible features, design ideas, etc
[15:41] <zequence> ?
[15:42] <falktx> zequence: I'm already pretty busy as is, so I would prefer not to start brand new applications
[15:42] <falktx> I just want to finish those that I have now, and finally get a real job...
[15:43] <zequence> falktx: What I'm aiming at is getting a control app, that is useful on any Debian derived distro, to adjust certain configs, enable/disble things. 
[15:43] <zequence> I have a project of my own 
[15:43] <zequence> But, it seems a lot of work reinveinting the wheel all the time
[15:43] <falktx> zequence: that's my target too, configure most things auto-related
[15:45] <zequence> falktx: Let me give you an overview of the features that we've been talking about some day, and see what you think
[15:45] <falktx> btw, please see this - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications:Cadence
[15:46] <falktx> it's incomplete, but the screenshots reveal what the app does
[15:46] <zequence> falktx: Yeah, I've tried it a few times :)
[15:46] <zequence> And been on that page
[15:47] <zequence> falktx: Did it perhaps mess up some LV2 variables a while ago? Just asking
[15:47] <falktx> not that I know
[15:48] <falktx> there was a case of a user that installed cadence and later didn't uninstall correctly
[15:48] <falktx> but it's fixed now with "make uninstall"
[15:48] <zequence> Well, that could be it. I installed it from your PPA
[15:48] <falktx> not an issue on package distros though
[15:48] <zequence> ..the last time
[15:48] <falktx> well, I didn't got any report from you... :)
[15:49] <zequence> sigh, if I was making bug reports about everything I see, I would never get anything else done :(
[15:49] <falktx> use less apps
[15:49] <falktx> I do report the errors I find, usually in person
[15:50] <zequence> The problem is, sometimes you don't know what caused an error, and when. And to find out, you need to put time into it, even before you make the bug report
[15:50] <zequence> I make bug reports when I can
[15:50] <falktx> zequence: I'm usually online here, so there's no excuse I think
[15:50] <falktx> I didn't knew about this until now
[15:50] <zequence> I still dont' know if it was because of Claudioo
[15:51] <zequence> Cadence, I mean
[15:51] <falktx> then I also don't know if I should bother, right?
[15:51] <falktx> :)
[15:52] <zequence> Well, if I'll make sure to report any bugs I find about Cadence, will you promise to report any bugs you find in Debian/Ubuntu pro audio?
[15:52] <zequence> And I don't only mean upstream
[15:52] <falktx> I report them upstream, not debian
[15:52] <zequence> As that doesn't always help the actual distros
[15:52] <falktx> heh
[15:53] <falktx> lol, why not?
[15:53] <falktx> you can't expect me to simply go over all distros to report 1 bug
[15:54] <falktx> plus, only the current, development version of Ubuntu usually gets fixed
[15:54] <zequence> Often I'll start doing some music, like this time I was mixing an album. I find that LV2 plugins are not working. I google it. Never cared about LV2 variabled before. Saw some note about Cadence. Tried fixing it. Didn't work
[15:54] <zequence> So, I used another distro, cause I just needed to get the mix done
[15:55] <zequence> I really don't have too little to do
[15:55] <falktx> you're a weird guy
[15:55] <zequence> You dont' start filing bug reports when you're in the middle of work
[15:56] <falktx> heh, but isn't that what opensource is about?
[15:56] <falktx> we need real live testing to know where things need fixing
[15:56] <zequence> Sure, when I or someone else actually does some testing
[15:56] <zequence> That is something I will improve for the next cycle
[15:57] <falktx> real live usage *is* testing
[15:57] <zequence> It works best on a clean environment
[15:57] <zequence> When you have too many variables, you don't want to start bothering people, when you don't know what creates the problem
[15:58] <falktx> depends on the problem
[15:58] <falktx> if it's consistent with an action, then report it
[15:59] <zequence> In any case, you should not claim i do too little. I'm the most active here, probably, and I'm also a full time student, with other interstes as well. I have two bands, and I excercise often
[15:59] <zequence> If I was a user only, it would be different
[15:59] <falktx> I never implied you do too little
[16:00] <falktx> I just think we disagree on reporting bugs
[16:00] <falktx> in the end it doesn't matter much I guess, since Ubuntu is always a little outdated
[16:01] <zequence> outdated is not the worst problem. Not working is a much bigger problem
[16:02] <falktx> and debug builds ;)
[16:02] <zequence> I can agree that getting jackdbus fixed earlier would have been good. You have probably seen the headache it has caused
[16:02] <falktx> hm, what headache?
[16:02] <falktx> you mean, getting it updated?
[16:02] <zequence> It is fixed now. In -proposed, waiting to be published for both 12.04 and 12.10
[16:02] <zequence> not updated
[16:02] <zequence> Fixed
[16:02] <zequence> It was buggy
[16:03] <falktx> well it was fixed in upstream directly
[16:03] <falktx> I worked on it with nedko
[16:03] <zequence> I remember
[16:03] <falktx> it would be awesome if jack1.9.9 could be used intead though
[16:03] <zequence> What's the big benefit?
[16:04] <zequence> It could be backported
[16:04] <falktx> you have a real upstream version, so it's much easier to identify problems
[16:04] <zequence> Doesn't it need updated libs, etc?
[16:04] <falktx> currently if there's a problem with jack, it will simply not be supported upstream
[16:04] <zequence> Updated deps..
[16:04] <falktx> because Ubuntu is using a custom version
[16:05] <falktx> zequence: there's no special requirement for 1.9.9
[16:05] <falktx> it can now do opus instead of celt, but that's an optional new thing
[16:09] <zequence> Well, my only goal was to silence the bug, with as little effort as possible. If someone else did that, the result might be better
[16:09] <zequence> At least, it won't crash on stop anymore, in a few days from now
[16:10] <falktx> cool, that's nice for sure :)
[16:10] <falktx> that bug bothered me as hell for some time
[16:10] <zequence> The next one I want to fix is PA not letting go of the card, which is another big pain
[16:11] <len-1304> falktx, re. jack and opus. how open is that?... wrong way to ask. If I have jack at one end how easy is it to use another app at the other?
[16:11] <falktx> len-1304: heh, no idea, I never used netjack
[16:11] <falktx> I only have 1 pc
[16:11] <len-1304> zequence, you mean in 12.04/12.10? seems to me it is fixed 13.04
[16:11] <zequence> len-1304: yes
[16:12] <zequence> 12.04 will still be important for some time. At least until 14.04 is out
[16:12] <len-1304> falktx, there is a real lack in the broadcast contribution transport area with stuff that will talk directly to jack
[16:12] <len-1304> zequence, I agree.
[16:13] <len-1304> and I mean using any codec, but opus would probably be the best one to use
[17:51] <madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
[17:58] <zequence> madeinkobaia: hi
[17:58] <madeinkobaia> Hi, how are you ?
[17:59] <zequence> Fine. 
[17:59] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Do you subscribe to our -devel mail list?
[18:00] <madeinkobaia> Yes, but I didn't read it yet
[18:01] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Well, the big news of the day is that Scott is steppinf down as lead
[18:01] <zequence> scott-work: Say hi to madeinkobaia :)
[18:02] <zequence> He came along recently, and did some really nice work on a google+ banner
[18:02] <zequence> scott-work: You may have noticed, I appointed him art lead. 
[18:03] <zequence> madeinkobaia: He's probably busy right now
[18:03] <madeinkobaia> Well, no problems : )
[18:04] <zequence> bbl. Gotta fix a chair with some glue and nails
[18:05] <madeinkobaia> I added to the branch (drafts folder) the (final) versions for the g+ banner, 3 color variations.
[18:05] <madeinkobaia> Any feedbacks are welcome : )
[18:18] <scott-work> hi madeinkobaia , glad you are here :)
[18:20] <madeinkobaia> Many thanks Scott ! I really enjoy to work with you all now, that makes my day :) 
[18:22] <madeinkobaia> Don't pay attention to my English, it is far from be perfect, I will do my best for that and the rest :)
[18:58] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Ah, great. You did some variations with the slogan
[19:00] <madeinkobaia> Yes I fixed some stuffs (see the working notes) and play with some colors : )
[19:03] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok, you decreased the spacing. I really like the orange, but it's not something we've done before. And also makes you think of Ubuntu vanilla
[19:04] <zequence> The blue is really nice too, all though it doesn't stick out as much. 
[19:04] <madeinkobaia> Ok
[19:04] <zequence> I do think it was a great idea to add some color. It made a huge difference
[19:05] <zequence> So, I would /win50
[19:05] <zequence> sorry :)
[19:05] <madeinkobaia> Sorry for ask zequence, I see you twice on IRC with blue and maroon colors, what does its means ?
[19:06] <zequence> madeinkobaia: You mean, my nick is colored blue and maroon?
[19:06] <madeinkobaia> yep
[19:08] <zequence> hehe
[19:09] <zequence> Here are the two examples if anyone else wants to see http://ubuntuone.com/4cArN4iCygcRbJDFASYq7l, http://ubuntuone.com/4hAMQMIOZR8tTGgWjVl9gf
[19:13] <zequence> Well, IMO, the orange is somehow better, but if we were to make a quick choice, I would rather not choose it out of respect for tradition, and therefore rather go with blue. This I guess is my opinion right now
[19:14] <zequence> I think it would be interesting to look at maybe using a different color scheme for Ubuntu Studio in the future. That would probably take some time to decide about, at least for me :)
[19:14] <madeinkobaia> I am agree, the branding setup color is really important (even if My preference goes to the orange one, more "funky"...) but we should have a global reflection on the color branding...when we have the time ;)
[19:14] <zequence> Yeah, exactly
[19:14] <zequence> Great
[19:14] <madeinkobaia> So Blue or White...
[19:17] <zequence> madeinkobaia: I say blue, definitely
[19:17] <zequence> I was just trying the same image on my own facebook profile, so it seems to work quite nicely there too. It gets a bit cropped
[19:17] <zequence> But, that's up to you really
[19:17] <madeinkobaia> I am a little hurry now, if you have no objections I will test the banner on my g+ account tomorrow...its always better for see how the blue interact with the context, we don't have to forget that we will use the same for FB...
[19:18] <madeinkobaia> Have you got a link to your FB ?
[19:18] <zequence> https://www.facebook.com/xequential
[19:18] <madeinkobaia> Thanks
[19:19] <madeinkobaia> Seems good :)
[19:19] <zequence> Yeah :)
[19:20] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Let me know when you're satisfied, and I'll publish both. I'll take the same opportunity to introduce you to the community
[19:20] <madeinkobaia> One important think for a good result its not re-compressed the picture (I have to tell that to our web-master)...that ruins the result, and we don't anyway paying the bandwidth on g+ and FB ; )
[19:21] <zequence> I'm totally stupid when it comes to those things
[19:21] <madeinkobaia> I know the size is a little bit heavy but under the ratio I chose that pixellized 
[19:22] <madeinkobaia> I will tell that to our web-master, I forget his name...its important
[19:22] <zequence> knome, ah
[19:23] <zequence> You mean our website, right?
[19:24] <madeinkobaia> The person who s manage the all stuff for internet...I don't know who will put the picture on g+ and FB...is it knome ?
[19:24] <zequence> No, that will be me
[19:24] <zequence> knome is the designer of our website theme
[19:24] <madeinkobaia> ok
[19:24] <zequence> We have a public relations team, that are supposed to be in charge of all the sites, in different ways, but it's not all organized yet
[19:25] <madeinkobaia> Ok I understand now
[19:25] <zequence> I have access to everything, except our community G+ page and twitter so far
[19:25] <zequence> scott-work: Speaking of that, would you mind making me admin of those? :)
[19:26] <zequence> Well, really, the PR team should probably only worry about posting, I gues
[19:26] <zequence> We have a website team as well
[19:26] <madeinkobaia> Well, I must leave now...see you all tomorrow (I am a little bit hurry sorry)
[19:27] <madeinkobaia> See you Kaj
[19:28] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Ok, see you 
[19:28] <madeinkobaia> :)
[20:44] <zequence> !paste
[21:00] <scott-work> zequence: i think you are already admin of g+ and facebook, i'll look at twitter this week
[21:04] <zequence> scott-work: Not the community g+ page though, only the "page"
[21:04] <zequence> At least, I think..
[21:05] <scott-work> oh, yeah, i did the "ubuntustudio" account, not the community. will do that as well
[23:10] <zequence> len-1304: I wrote a blog post about the change in leadership, that I was thinking you might miss otherwise http://planet.ubuntu.com/
[23:20] <zequence> Been a long day. Catch you guys tomorrow