[01:43] <mwhudson> has anyone managed to make isky work on ubuntu?
[01:45] <G> mwhudson: I had it working during the RWC, just used Chrome tbh
[01:46] <mwhudson> chrome or chromium?
[01:46] <mwhudson> i guess chrome might work better, perhaps
[01:47] <mwhudson> i get encouraging messages like "14:47:30.151 	INFO 	playerwidget 	FlashAccessProcess :: system could not be updated to access drm [IOErrorEvent type="ioError" bubbles=false cancelable=false eventPhase=2 text="Error #2203"] " in the console :/
[01:53] <ojwb> so flash hasn't died yet then?
[01:53] <mwhudson> bah, chrome doesn't work in an apparently unrelated way
[01:53] <mwhudson> ojwb: no :(
[01:54] <ojwb> about the only thing I notice these days from not having flash is the odd youtube video refuses to play
[01:54] <ojwb> seemingly because it can't squirt ads via HTML video, which seems a bonus really
[01:57] <ojwb> i'm likely atypical in my web usage, but i've had a definite sense that flash is in decline
[01:57] <hads> I think you can thank mobile browsers for that.
[02:13] <G> mwhudson: straight Chrome
[18:18] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:19] <Atamira> morning
[19:25] <chilts> morning
[19:33] <ajmitch> morning
[19:36] <hads> morning
[19:46] <Atamira> wellingtonians. other than Te Papa, anything else to see while visiting the windy city?
[19:47] <ojwb> probably
[19:47] <ojwb> depends what you like though
[19:48] <ojwb> oh, also morning
[19:49] <ojwb> museum-wise, the museum of city and sea is also worth a look
[19:49] <Atamira> is that close to te papa?
[19:50] <Atamira> i like museums. knick knack shops. just having a look around generally
[19:50] <ojwb> it's certainly walkable
[19:50] <ojwb> it's near the shore, to the north
[20:03] <ibeardslee> hmm not a good sign when apport-gtk crashes when something else crashes
[20:04] <snail> Atamira: national portrait gallery is close to te papa
[20:05] <snail> Atamira: catch the cablecar up to VUW (www.adamartgallery.org.nz)  or the botanic gardens?
[20:06] <snail> Atamira: do a tour of parliment?
[20:07] <ojwb> there's also a (pretty tiny) cable car museum at the top of the cablecar
[20:07] <snail> and the carter observatory, which has a planetarum
[20:07]  * ojwb still hasn't got round to going there
[20:08] <snail> ojwb: they've just completely refurbished it
[20:16] <Atamira> i unfortunately dont much like heights...other than planes
[20:17] <Atamira> to the cablecar is out
[20:17] <Atamira> tour of the beehive..ooh..didnt think of that
[20:17] <Atamira> thank you snial and ojwb
[20:17] <Atamira> oops..snail
[20:17] <Atamira> im off to bed.
[20:24] <ojwb> Atamira: it's not an "up on a wire" cable car
[20:24] <ojwb> it runs along rail, pulled by cables
[20:24] <ojwb> heights really wouldn't be a problem
[20:25] <ibeardslee> more like a very steep train on tracks (just happens to use a cable to haul it up and lower it down)
[20:25] <thumper> morning
[20:27] <mwhudson> i'm not sure it's super great if you have vertigo-type problems :)
[20:27] <mwhudson> although the one in hong kong is definitely worse
[20:27] <mwhudson> morning, btw
[20:31] <thumper> mwhudson: you back now?
[20:31] <mwhudson> thumper: aye
[20:42] <thumper> mwhudson: it seemed like you were away for quite a while
[20:42] <mwhudson> thumper: yeah -- a month, give or take
[20:42] <thumper> mwhudson: all holiday?
[20:42] <mwhudson> no, i worked a bit from the uk
[20:43] <ojwb> going over there, taking their jobs...
[20:53] <chilts> that's the good thing with remote jobs, you can work from anywhere
[20:53] <chilts> there's a few of us in this channel doing that aye
[20:57]  * ojwb still hasn't worked for anybody in NZ
[20:59] <mwhudson> which reminds me, i need to sort my paperwork to get lots of GST back from the government...
[21:13] <G> remote working brings up interesting management chains I've found too, until recently my management chain looked like a route for a round-the-world trip
[21:13] <ojwb> i'm just self-employed, so the management chain is usually just me to the client
[21:14] <ojwb> or at least i tend not to see much more of it
[21:53] <kcj> Morning.
[22:50] <thumper> mwhudson: you get GST back?
[22:50] <thumper> mwhudson: from what?
[22:51] <mwhudson> thumper: office rental mostly
[22:51] <mwhudson> other assorted bits
[22:51] <thumper> mwhudson: ah...
[22:51] <mwhudson> also acc :)
[22:56] <chilts> they charge GST on ACC ... I forgot about that
[22:57] <chilts> pretty weird since it's only sold to businesses right, not to consumers?
[22:57] <chilts> dunno
[22:57] <ibeardslee> it's a business selling a 'product'
[22:58] <chilts> ACC is a business?
[22:58] <chilts> hmmmm, ok
[23:03] <ojwb> coo, I'd not noticed that one
[23:06] <mwhudson> isn't the nz principle that gst gets charged on _everything_ ?
[23:06] <mwhudson> well, every good or service
[23:07] <ojwb> i think so - i guess i just think of acc as a tax (since it's very roughly equivalent to national insurance in the UK)
[23:08] <ojwb> though it seems to be better ring-fenced here
[23:08] <chilts> ACC is not on bank fees
[23:08] <chilts> wait
[23:08] <ojwb> GST
[23:08] <chilts> I'm getting confused, ignore me
[23:08] <chilts> yeah, GST
[23:08] <ojwb> i assume you mean?
[23:08] <chilts> sorry
[23:08] <chilts> :)
[23:08] <chilts> GST also isn't on various other things either, like houses
[23:08] <chilts> (unless you're a property developer)
[23:09] <ojwb> or from companies below the threshold and not registered for GST
[23:11] <ojwb> but it's more ubiquitous that UK VAT which has a somewhat odd list of exceptions (e.g. VAT on chocolate biscuits because they are a luxury, but no VAT on cakes because they aren't, so mcvities went to court to argue that jaffacakes are cakes not biscuits)
[23:13] <mwhudson> i think there is something about hot and cold food, or takeaway and eat-in or something along those lines
[23:13] <ojwb> yeah
[23:13] <ojwb> and tampons are apparently a luxury
[23:14] <ojwb> no VAT on kids clothes, but it's done by size, so many kids actually need sizes which VAT is charged on
[23:15] <mwhudson> and vv
[23:15] <ojwb> indeed
[23:24] <G> wouldn't the whole luxury/non-luxury thing defeat the purpose of VAT/GST
[23:25] <ojwb> it certainly makes things more complex
[23:26] <chilts> yeah, definitely more complex
[23:27] <chilts> I think there is VAT on stuff that is eaten in, but not taken out (to clarify what mwhudson said before)
[23:29] <G> certainly sounds more complex than Australia too
[23:33] <ojwb> chilts: there are hot vs cold distinctions too - e.g the whole "pasty tax" saga http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/29/pasty-tax-brief-history
[23:34] <mwhudson> there was some graph somewhere that showed that we pay more gst than people in the uk pay VAT despite VAT being 20%, due to all the exemptions
[23:35] <mwhudson> ojwb: that's pretty hilarious
[23:35] <ojwb> i suspect it depends on the sort of food you buy, and whether you have (small enough) kids
[23:35] <ojwb> i love the idea of food that is designed to cool down
[23:35] <ojwb> vs food where that's a design flaw, i guess
[23:39] <chilts> heh, weird
[23:45] <ibeardslee> chilts: from what I understand is that there is GST in a house sale, just like in theory there is in the stuff you sell on tradme, but people involved in the transaction aren't necessarily GST registered