=== chriadam is now known as chriadam|away
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
em22_hello, I'd like to write some GUI programs on/for Linux.  I've done a little bit of GUI on Windows so understand the basic concepts.  But when I approach Linux I feel lost, can't figure out where to start reading.  there is X and Mosaic, and OpenGL, and GTK, QT, etc.  Then there are an infinite number of window managers.  It is unclear to me how all of these fit together.  Where can I find some good docs on this subject?  thanks.19:41
c10udem22_, it's actually pretty simple: you pick your favourite language and a toolkit and start coding.. no need to care about wm, display servers or anything unless you really need to mess with them20:03
stqnem22_: most applications use either Gtk or Qt20:04
stqnthen there’s Gtk2 and Gtk3… devs tend to switch to Gtk3 progressively20:05
c10udem22_, the most widespread UI toolkits are GTK and Qt. GTK offers UI only and many languages, Qt is c++ and python and has many utilities beyond UI elements only20:05
c10udthat's the brief explanation20:05
em22_c10ud: thanks, what do you mean when you say that GTK is UI only?  what I am hoping to find are some docs that explain how the different pieces fit togehter and what the trade-offs are of GTK vs QT vs X...  what I really don't get is how you talk to the window managers, especially when there are so many different ones.22:47
em22_oh, well, perhaps I should explain, that I am a crazyman who prefers to write stuff in assembly.  I try to avoid heavy (and usually buggy) libraries as much as possible.22:49
c10udem22_, unless you want to start yet another toolkit I suggest you take a brief look at GTK and Qt documentation and then you decide what's best for you. Everything else like window managers etc. you can ignore it for now22:59
stqnem22_: as c10ud said, you don’t care about window managers.23:38
stqnif you want to use asm I think Qt is out of the question…23:39
stqnit’s a bit strange to use asm and limit yourself to a single arch though.23:39
stqnfor a gui app…23:39
em22_stqn: well, actually I do care about window managers, Im trying to understand the whole process....  and yes, I might just end up writing my own toolkit....   yeah, using asm is strange...  but I guess Im just a strange guy...  Im actually writing my own programming language and I have a very strong dislike of C.  I want as little between me and the cpu as possible.  Ive read most of petzold, so have a grasp of how things work ove23:45
em22_r on that side of the fence, but I have not yet found anything (docs) similar to give me a grasp of the linuxey side of things.23:45
em22_so bottom line of what Im searching for is the linux equivlent of petzold.  any ideas?23:47
=== chriadam|away is now known as chriadam
stqnI don’t know who or what petzold is.23:49
stqnWhat we said is when you write a GUI application, you don’t care about the window manager.23:50
stqn(well for my SDL game I had to disable fullscreen when under Unity because Unity is bugged, but that’s a special case…)23:52
em22_petzold is the bible of windows programming, he explains all the APIs for creating and managing Windows and more...   I've looked at SDL, it's a very interesting approach.  how do you like it?  how buggy is it?   My number one concern is bugs.  I tried some demos with GTK and it was crash city, a throughly underwhelming experience, especially for a DEMO.  My general impression of QT is that it is encumbered with a lot of baggage,23:58
em22_both codewise and polotical.  so it would not be my first choice.  I've heard that X is pretty ugly to interface with but dont have any specifics.   And none of what I've seen so far gives me a clue how to talk to the window managers.23:58

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