[05:48] <redtape> Just trying Gubuntu for first time .. here goes | back in an hour ... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/daily-live/current/
[07:49] <davmor2> bigcalm: how much will it be ffitted?
[07:59] <bootkigftrgds> Well Gubuntu works .. except for the software center (command line hell, I'm in again, today :(  )
[08:10] <AlanBell> is the ubuntu-gnome spin materially different to starting from an ubuntu unity install and adding gnome-shell?
[08:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: 30 quid for fitting. I'm sure I could do it myself, but I'd rather have a professional mess about with trim. 2p less than £180 all in
[08:16] <BigRedS> AlanBell: starting from Xubuntu and Lubuntu still gets a Gnome with the unity wonkiness, so I don't see why a gnome remix wouldn't
[08:17] <ali1234> wat
[08:17] <ali1234> if you start with xubuntu and then install gnome it ends up not working at all
[08:17] <ali1234> just so you know
[08:18] <BigRedS> The multiple "Online Accounts" thing is listed as a known issue, but with the suggestion that this might be fixed in 13.04
[08:18] <ali1234> for example, if you xdg-open any file it opens with nautilus no matter what type of file it is
[08:18] <BigRedS> ali1234: I've two PCs running exactly that
[08:18] <BigRedS> Xubuntu 12.10, installed whatever the gnome-shell desktop package is
[08:18] <ali1234> if you go from xubuntu to gnome you probably won't notice any of the things that it breaks
[08:18] <ali1234> becausee xubuntu is horribly broken to start with
[08:18] <BigRedS> ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[08:19] <ali1234> something similar happens if you install KDE on any version that isn't kubuntu
[08:19] <BigRedS> I went from Xubuntu 'cause that wsa the ISO I had knocking around; I don't use XFCE
[08:19] <ali1234> basically it doesn't work, never has, and probabyly never will
[08:19] <BigRedS> There's lots of broken in Ubuntu's Gnome Shell, but it's workable.
[08:19] <ali1234> i'm not using shell
[08:20] <BigRedS> And, really, most of my problems are that online accounts thing
[08:20] <ali1234> online accounts doesn't even do anything or have any purpose
[08:20] <BigRedS> I've not found any other way to get my config into empathy
[08:21] <ali1234> yes, well, empathy doesn't do anything or have any purpose either
[08:21] <BigRedS> except to have not yet run it, and instead configure everything in pidgin, then start Empathy for the first time and have it migrate
[08:21] <BigRedS> Empathy does jabber and integrates into a DE reasonably well
[08:21] <BigRedS> That's more than most IM clients have going for them
[08:22] <ali1234> pidgin does jabber better than empathy does, and integrates into the desktop better than empathy does, plus it doesn't render all chats in annoying huge speech bubbles
[08:22] <BigRedS> I don't understand why notifications in general need be so much less useful than they used to be, but Empathy and Gnome-shell is my favourite pairing so far
[08:22] <BigRedS> I really like empathy's little pop-ups at the bottom of the screen
[08:22] <ali1234> that is gnome not empathy
[08:22] <BigRedS> Empathy's the only IM client that uses them as far as I can tell
[08:23] <ali1234> nope
[08:23] <BigRedS> What else does?
[08:23] <ali1234> anything that uses notify-osd pops up at the bottom of the screen in gnome
[08:23] <ali1234> which means pidgin does it
[08:23] <BigRedS> And lets me type replies in there?
[08:23] <ali1234> i dunno, i don't use it
[08:23] <BigRedS> I've not found anything that does
[08:23] <ali1234>  turned off notifications because they are just annoying
[08:24] <BigRedS> I've not looked that hard for some time, but none of the extensuions I could find would do it either
[08:24] <ali1234> i also turned off system tray because it serves no purpose
[08:24] <ali1234> there is so much junk on the desktop that has no reason to exist
[08:24] <BigRedS> That's what passes for per-app notifications now isn't it?
[08:24] <ali1234> lierally the only thing that you might need from the systray is the volume control
[08:25] <ali1234> and if you have multimedia keyboard you don't even need that
[08:25] <BigRedS> Oh, the systray's the thing at the top?
[08:25] <ali1234> yes
[08:25] <BigRedS> yeah, that's the only place you get notifications that don't require that you see them when they come in
[08:25] <ali1234> but then it shows them to you anyway
[08:26] <BigRedS> I dont' get why the stuff on that autohidey thing at the bottom isn't on the panel at the top
[08:26] <BigRedS> if I'm always going to lose that 16px or whatever by default I'd rather it not be spent just showing a black stripe
[08:26] <ali1234> i don't know what you're talking about
[08:26] <ali1234> remember i don't use gnome shell
[08:26] <BigRedS> Oh yeah
[08:27] <ali1234> sounds lke you are talking about some kind of dock
[08:27] <BigRedS> What are you using?
[08:27] <ali1234> classic
[08:27] <BigRedS> I'm more ranting than talking :) I should probably just do some work
[08:27] <BigRedS> Oh blimey. Party like it's 2003 :)
[08:27] <ali1234> have you seen the new gnome classic?
[08:27] <ali1234> it's hilarious
[08:28] <ali1234> it only exists to look like gnome-panel in screenshots
[08:28] <ali1234> it still has all the same problems as gnome-shell when you actually use it
[08:30] <BigRedS> haha
[08:31] <SuperMatt> I actually quite enjoyed the symbiosis
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning, people, happy Walk to Work Day! :-D
[08:33] <AlanBell> oh, I was going to cycle
[08:33] <BigRedS> I've already conceded to public transport
[08:33] <BigRedS> is that why I got a seat on the tube?
[08:33] <AlanBell> well I have walked so far, but only down the stairs
[08:47] <bigcalm> I walked from bedroom to home office, does that count?
[08:50] <czajkowski> BigRedS: you asked in #ubuntuone the folks there are really helpful when it comes to online accounts
[08:52] <BigRedS> czajkowski: no, it's not an ubuntu one problem, just an empathy one. They do that, too?
[08:54] <czajkowski> not sure anyone can help with empathy but either there or in #ubuntu-destop
[08:54] <czajkowski> which may be better as there are more people awake in this timezone
[08:56] <BigRedS> Allegedly, though, this is somehow fixed in 13.04 (or will be) so perhaps this problem will disappear in a few weeks :)
[09:06] <mungbean> can someone do a tldr summary of the game risk?
[09:08] <BigRedS> Divvy the world up between players who have armies of a size based roughly on what proporportion of the world they control. Each turn is a (potential) war.  Objective is to control the whole world.
[09:08] <mungbean> so a bit lame with 2 players
[09:08] <BigRedS> yeah, you'd basically have a cold war
[09:08] <mungbean> have lotr risk on shelf,never played/opened
[09:09] <bootkigftrgds> AlanBell: I tried that some time ago .. and I can't remember now (to answer your question from 09:10am)
[09:28] <MooDoo> hello all
[09:28] <kvarley> bigcalm: What's in the Ubuntu box
[09:29] <Myrtti> I am surprised, I managed to get my encrypted Galaxy Nexus to display over MTP just fine on the Debian
[09:29]  * kvarley shudders ... MTP
[09:29] <kvarley> It'll be nice when Ubuntu supports it out of the box
[09:30] <directhex> the problem with MTP is how many devices are out of spec
[09:30] <directhex> but only slightly
[09:31] <directhex> so they need special casing
[09:31] <kvarley> directhex: Out of spec? So they're breaking standards?
[09:31] <directhex> yes
[09:31] <kvarley> Lame
[09:37] <bigcalm> Standards, like rules, are made for one thing
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Yes. They exist so you can go "That doesn't quite apply to my situation", and invent a new one.
[09:41] <bigcalm> :)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: Ubuntu supports it fine in raring
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: I've been able to browse my Galaxy Nexus since early this year I think :)
[09:42] <directhex> windows phone 8 works fine via mtp if you patch mtp's special casing list & just add it as a no-workarounds device
[09:42] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:43] <Myrtti> I am a bit surprised that the upgraded version isn't in Debian unstable
[09:43] <Myrtti> but it is in Raring.
[09:43] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's not a bad price for fitting to be fair
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> directhex: the new libmtp approach seems to be a lot better :)
[09:43] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'm more than happy for it to happen somewhere locally by a large company
[09:43] <directhex> MartijnVdS, new approach?
[09:44] <bigcalm> davmor2: yesterday's purchase came this morning, how quick?
[09:44] <Myrtti> atleast that's how I read packages.debian.org
[09:44] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's impressive, and is it everything you expected it to be?
[09:45] <bigcalm> davmor2: the build quality is good. The output lacks bass, which is a shame. Otherwise thumbs up
[09:46] <davmor2> Yay
[09:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: hows the nfc audio?
[09:48] <Myrtti> bigcalm: what did you buy?
[09:48] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah, I'm not on raring yet. I shied away from non-stable ubuntu releases after 12.10 caused me a lot of problems
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> directhex: old libmtp read every file on the device, and timed out on new Android
[09:48] <bigcalm> Myrtti: just tweeted the reveal :)
[09:48] <Myrtti> oh, car stereo
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> directhex: new libmtp reads as-required
[09:48] <Myrtti> ?
[09:48] <Myrtti> meh twitter, alright I'll go have look
[09:48] <bigcalm> Myrtti: no, DAB for my car is a separate order to be completed on Tuesday :)
[09:49] <Myrtti> nfc? I didn't think that used NFC
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> it's bt or wifi.. unlikely to be nfs
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> nfc
[09:49] <directhex> MartijnVdS, but it doesn't touch devices it doesn't think are mtp
[09:49] <Myrtti> I thought it used black magic
[09:49] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:49] <Myrtti> ie. neither wifi or bt
[09:49] <bigcalm> Myrtti: I'm with you on the bm
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> directhex: yes, that's still annoying
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Scandinavians and their black magic.. :)
[09:50] <davmor2> Myrtti: nfc audio or it has a mic that picks up the sound an magnifies it
[09:50] <bootkigftrgds> Aren't black magic some kind of chocolates ??
[09:50] <Myrtti> davmor2: the latter I think is what we concluded the last time we looked it up
[09:50] <bigcalm> davmor2: it does feel like it has a mic to do just that, but the audio quality is too high for that I think
[09:51] <davmor2> Myrtti: the spec does say nfc audio
[09:52] <Myrtti> davmor2: Near-FA is what I'm reading
[09:52] <Myrtti> "A NearFA™ speaker can magically amplify the sound of an iPhone (or other mobile devices) by just placing the iPhone next to the speaker without configuration."
[09:52] <Myrtti> they call it magic themselves
[09:52] <Myrtti> case closed
[09:53] <dwatkins> I have an iPhone stand which uses a little chamber to amplify the sound from the speakers underneath.
[09:53] <davmor2> only worry when the magic smoke escapes
[09:53] <bigcalm> Myrtti: I'll be using it to play podcasts/spotify in the kitchen and hotel visits
[09:54] <Myrtti> sounds good, it might even get less interference from a microwave oven than bluetooth
[09:55] <Myrtti> I've started to keep my phone on top of jar of Vanish that's next to our kitchen bluetooth speaker
[10:00] <NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm in work and i wanted to pull the audio from my windows desktop through the headphones on my laptop, a pulse audio network method would be cool, but taking an audio 3.5mm cable connected the headphones out on the desktop the line in on the laptop.
[10:00] <NET||abuse> There was no way to unmute or pipe line in audio to the pulse output, until i found parec | pacat
[10:01] <NET||abuse> so i have a terminal window livving off on another workspace all day with that running in it.
[10:01] <NET||abuse> But is there a less raw, pulse volume manager integrated method to do this?
[10:02] <NET||abuse> parec and pcat come up in pa volume manager as their own app instances with volume sliders, so you can control the volume on the fly which is good,
[10:03] <NET||abuse> ofcourese i added the --latency-msec=1 to both commands otherwise you end up with about 4 or 5 seconds delay on the audio.
[10:03] <NET||abuse> but otherwise, it's working
[11:10] <mungbean> youtube auto captions are worse than useless http://ubuntuone.com/4yfHEwm0gb6o9ivODle89T
[11:13] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they work well for clear voices with no background noise, in proper American English
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> "proper"
[11:20] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Have you heard Americans speak English, I think you'll find there is nothing English about it :)
[11:22] <Nafallo> lol
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I think it sounds vaguely Englishish
[11:47]  * popey is having trouble finding a mod tool that works on osx
[11:47] <popey> for a friend
[11:47] <popey> ☺
[11:49] <davmor2> popey: it's okay we know how much you love Apple products you can say it's for you :D
[11:49]  * popey is getting a lunch made for him for doing this
[11:49] <popey> if I can
[11:50] <mgdm> a mod tool?
[11:52] <DJones> Isn't a "mod tool" better known as a Vespa Scooter /me shows his age
[11:54] <davmor2> popey: what mod tool
[11:54] <popey> mcpatcher
[11:54] <davmor2> DJones: only if it has lots of wing mirrors
[11:54]  * popey asks in #minecraft
[11:57] <davmor2> popey:  is this not what you are after then http://mcpatcher-hd-fix-mac.en.softonic.com/mac
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> Something to edit .mod files?!
[11:57] <Nafallo> popey: http://milkytracker.org/?about
[11:57] <popey> using mcpatcher
[12:00] <Nafallo> popey: you supplied the context too darn late. I had already found milkytracker for you.
[12:03] <Myrtti> ungrateful little git ;-)
[12:51] <ali1234> isn't mcpatcher written in java tho?
[12:51] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure i've used it on linux before so it must be
[12:52] <mungbean> anyone have a fixed rate halifax isa? having some problems adding to it
[12:54] <penguin42> mungbean: I've never tried doing anything on line with it
[12:54]  * penguin42 always does phone or battles with the idiots in branch
[12:56] <mungbean> have a fixed rate fixed term one
[12:56] <mungbean> think i might have to open a new one
[12:57] <penguin42> yeh, I wouldn't expect to be able to add to an existing one
[12:57] <mungbean> u can usually
[12:57] <penguin42> not my experience with the fixed rate stuff
[12:57] <mungbean> looking for a new airbrush
[12:58] <mungbean> not sure whether to splash cash on a nice one considering i lost my man cave
[13:22] <kvarley> Is baking a multiarch Ubuntu live DVD possible?
[13:27] <penguin42> why wouldn't you just use a 32bit dvd? or you mean that can install either 32 or 64?
[13:39] <kvarley> penguin42: Yes, I need to be able to boot either 32 or 64 depending on what the computer is. I see debian has a multi-arch disc so it is technically possible. I'll have to have a look at the build tools ubuntu uses
[13:41] <mungbean> only if u are doing it for fun, as the price of a dvd and dual dvd case is trivial compared to time taken to do this
[13:44] <shauno> I'd think the biggest downside would be the space used.  most distros are already right up to the line (and sometimes dipping a toe over) on how much they can fit on install/live media
[13:45] <shauno> so every binary you have to double up for x86/64 builds requires a sacrifice to disk space elsewhere
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> 32-bit computers still exist!?! :P
[13:45] <mungbean> my eee pc
[13:46] <kvarley> shauno: But it would still fit on a DVD, no?
[13:46] <penguin42> shauno: Well it crept past the line on CD, but on DVD I'd have thought there was space
[13:46] <shauno> depends what you're starting off with :)  how many packages are on a livecd is a 'how long is a peice of string' issue, I can count it for you :)
[13:51] <kvarley> I think the system will be XFCE, LibreOffice, Thunderbird and Firefox. That's it, all other apps aren't needed at this stage.
[15:47] <czajkowski> BigRedS: how did the testing go
[17:21] <borderer> Has anyone loaded raspberrypi with ubuntu 12.04 server.
[17:22] <bootkigftrgds> no
[17:23] <borderer> Thanks for that - it probibly saved me a lot of pain
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntu isn't really available for Raspberry Pi
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> the Ubuntu ARM port is compiled for a newer version of ARM
[17:33] <AlanBell> indeed, it won't wokr
[17:33] <AlanBell> or work
[17:33] <AlanBell> use raspbian, it is almost the same
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> ♥ Raspbian
[17:33] <AlanBell> http://www.nicholsonspubs.co.uk/theoldthamesideinnlondonbridge/ <- release meetup venue
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> Also, class 6 cards tend to have better random-access performance than Class 10 ones
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> (SD cards)
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> SciShow about Ada Lovelace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbVbqRvqTM
[17:36] <borderer> I have my Pi working with Raspian OK but always used Ubuntu
[17:37] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2329-1304-release-party/
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: aww, two weeks before I'm in the country ;)
[17:38] <redtape|renegade> AlanBell: How's the Barber-ing going ? .. or have you finished for now ?
[17:42]  * redtape|renegade doesn't want that elephant conversation, again ! :-[
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: the one in the room, you mean?
[18:14] <redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: I feel sorry for him , he seems left out ! http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/325/Irrelephant%203.0.png
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: So.. how does it feel to be rich? :)
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> s/rich/filthy &/
[18:47] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: good, I'm actually trying to buy a house now
[18:47] <Azelphur> and get the business declared
[18:47] <Azelphur> 5 months from poor and on benefits to buying a house, crazy.
[18:48] <zleap> Azelphur, what you been up to then
[18:48] <Azelphur> btc trading
[18:48] <zleap> ok
[18:48] <zleap> btc ?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I saw a guy raffling his house in Canada 8-)
[18:48] <Azelphur> zleap: https://www.weusecoins.com/
[18:48] <zleap> oh bit coin
[18:49] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I'll probably be buying for GBP of course ;)
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: for only £50 worth of btc
[18:49] <Azelphur> but I've been searching for a place, and a mortgage advisor says I should be ok to get a mortgage
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: weisecoins = yours?
[18:50] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope
[18:51] <mungbean> Azelphur: how much did u make off btc bubble?
[18:52] <Azelphur> mungbean: I've been steadily profiting off BTC for a long while, but on this bubble I'm still profiting, I've made about 10k
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Nice :)
[18:52] <Azelphur> the demand in UK surged, I was selling with a £40ish split, crazy.
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: we should have listened ;)
[18:52] <Azelphur> ;)
[18:52] <Azelphur> I have an uncanny ability to call the market
[18:53] <Azelphur> I have called every significant event so far and played every card correctly
[18:53]  * MartijnVdS is holding on to a bought-at-$18 bitcoin
[18:54] <ali1234> "a" bitcoin
[18:54] <ali1234> lel
[18:54] <Azelphur> lol
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: 1.0000000 :)
[18:55] <ali1234> i wanna buy something with bitcoin
[18:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: pizza!
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> I think you can buy Azelphur a beer ;)
[18:55] <ali1234> and not reddit gold
[18:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: You can get SSDs really cheap in USA often, MBS on otc will buy and reship for you
[18:55] <Azelphur> I got some good stuff via MBS from USA for cheap :D
[18:55] <ali1234> not a bad idea
[18:56] <Azelphur> I got 3 x 3TB HDD in the black friday sales
[18:56] <Azelphur> $99 a pop
[18:56] <ali1234> i don't really need any more computer stuff though
[18:57] <Azelphur> found a house I like this morning within my budget, only problem is it's right around the corner from former serial killers house xD
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: does he still live there?
[18:58] <mgdm> that's probably why it's within your budget
[18:58] <Azelphur> nah, they caught him
[18:58] <Azelphur> mgdm: haha
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> so what's the problem? :)
[18:58] <Azelphur> area seems nice enough that said
[18:58] <mgdm> (not meaning to be insulting, Azelphur :)
[18:59] <Azelphur> mgdm: haha indeed
[18:59] <Azelphur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tobin literally this guy lived on the end of the street xD
[18:59] <Azelphur> "Skeletal remains of a further two young women who went missing in 1991 were subsequently found at his former home in Margate, Kent." <-- end of street
[19:00] <mungbean> u live margate?
[19:00] <Azelphur> yep
[19:00] <Azelphur> but besides that it's all quite nice really, area looks really nice, it's a crescent so would be quiet, lots of families and stuff living there, looks clean and quiet, etc :p
[19:00] <mungbean> ever been to th hornby centre?
[19:00] <Azelphur> so might go for that one
[19:00] <Azelphur> mungbean: nope
[19:00] <mungbean> :-o
[19:01] <mungbean> id be there every day
[19:01] <Azelphur> I didn't even know there was a hornby centre
[19:01]  * Azelphur is a hermit
[19:02] <ali1234> Azelphur: you should open an exchange
[19:02] <ali1234> for the alt-chains
[19:02]  * Azelphur shrugs
[19:03] <ali1234> doublec closed his
[19:03] <ali1234> there is a gap in the market
[19:03] <Azelphur> yea, I was actually working on one a while back but never finished it
[19:03] <Azelphur> I got scared with all the tax stuff and decided to stay under the radar
[19:03] <mungbean> i was your age in the dotcom bubble, it lookjs the same. virtual prices that mean nothing, inflated by speculators wanting a piece ofa action
[19:03] <Azelphur> maybe when I get fully tax sorted, I will
[19:03] <ali1234> mungbean: yeah that whole internet thing was a fad right?
[19:04] <mungbean> well china.com portal site was an eca
[19:04] <mungbean> example
[19:04] <mungbean> anything called a portal was suddenly worth millions for no reason
[19:05] <ali1234> the bubble already burst once on bitcoin
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: several times even
[19:05] <mungbean> not properly
[19:05] <ali1234> i wouldn't go that far
[19:06] <ali1234> this is only the second time it's gone over $10
[19:07] <mungbean> http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g503912-d1943960-Reviews-The_Hornby_Visitor_Centre-Margate_Isle_of_Thanet_Kent_England.html
[19:10] <Azelphur> ali1234: I'm likely to do a 10k buy soon :P
[19:11] <Azelphur> no risk no gain ;)
[19:16] <AlanBell> so who is the money coming from?
[19:16] <Azelphur> AlanBell: which money?
[19:16] <AlanBell> your successful trading buying low and selling high is great, but someone must be on the short end of the stick
[19:17] <ali1234> people who actually use bitcoin
[19:17] <Azelphur> AlanBell: the unwashed masses I guess, the same goes with any stock trader
[19:17] <mungbean> AlanBell: other speculators
[19:17] <ali1234> if you actually buy something with bitcoin you pay a premium
[19:18] <AlanBell> yeah, I am surprised there are enough regular people in the system for speculators to extract profit
[19:18] <ali1234> because those bitcoins end up getting sold at market
[19:19] <mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_bubble
[19:19] <ali1234> there is a lot of manipulation too
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> the latest Euro scares + lots of press make lots of people want to try/buy bitcoin as well
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> I've seen articles about Bitcoin in 4 major newspapers in the Netherlands alone
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> in the last week
[19:20] <ali1234> yeah that's driving the current bubble
[19:21] <mungbean> during the dotcom bubble,my friend began to think it impossible to lose, since everything was wildly fluctuating, but ultimately rising
[19:21] <ali1234> also money laundering, don't forget that
[19:21] <mungbean> he kept doubling pup his invesment in one particular company
[19:22] <mungbean> and lost 10k
[19:22] <mungbean> i was buying shares in ARM that have only recently reached their dotcom prices
[19:22] <ali1234> why would you buy more if the price keeps rising?
[19:22] <ali1234> that right there is why speculators can make so much money
[19:22] <mungbean> because u don't know when its gonna drop
[19:22] <mungbean> false confidence
[19:23] <mungbean> when it dropped, it aws like a knife
[19:23] <ali1234> it's like reverse-martingale or something
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: a bit like Skrillex
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you never know when it's going to drop
[19:23] <mungbean> i had shares in kewill which went from £80 per shares to 45p
[19:23] <ali1234> if the price doubles you sell 50%
[19:23] <ali1234> if it doubles again you sell another 50%
[19:23] <ali1234> when it crashes you buy more
[19:23] <mungbean> not if you get greedy
[19:23] <mungbean> gamblers' regret
[19:24] <ali1234> gambling is really dumb :/
[19:24] <ali1234> also gambling is a big driver of bitcoin
[19:24] <mungbean> yes
[19:24] <ali1234> satoshi dice spamming up the chain
[19:24] <mungbean> ethically i wouldn't speculate on it
[19:24] <ali1234> ಠ_ಠ
[19:25] <mungbean> what i did on shares in the 90s i told myself i was investing, but it wa sgambling really
[19:25] <mungbean> i mean morally, rather than ethically
[19:25] <ali1234> i already cashed ot my initial investment a long time ago so i cannot lose at this point
[19:26] <mungbean> maybe you dont have that tendency to gamble
[19:26] <mungbean> which is good
[19:26] <ali1234> not at all
[19:26] <ali1234> especially pure chance games like dice
[19:26] <ali1234> it's just stupid
[19:26] <ali1234> you cannot ever win
[19:26] <mungbean> it feeds greed and is horrible, i steer well away nowadays
[19:27] <mungbean> i got into fruit machines as a student. i never won, or could afford it
[19:27] <ali1234> the people that do it are literally addicted
[19:27] <AlanBell> you should only gamble with money you don't want
[19:27] <ali1234> no, you should not even do that
[19:28] <mungbean> agree with ali1234
[19:28] <ali1234> there's literally no reason to do it unless you are in vegas getting comped for what you lose
[19:28] <ali1234> even then it would be less like hard work to just spend the money on a party and not have to stand there and roll dice or count cards or whatever
[19:31] <mungbean> every other shop in east end is a chicken shop or  a betting shop.
[19:31] <mungbean> in one of the poorest parts of the country
[19:31] <ali1234> chicken shop? like fried chicken?
[19:31] <mungbean> they wouldnt be there if they didnt makje a packet
[19:31] <ali1234> or is this slang for pawn shop?
[19:32] <mungbean> no, just chicken
[19:32] <mungbean> fried
[19:32] <ali1234> if you go on that site that has stuff you can download, you know the one
[19:32] <ali1234> you can search for a show called "gambling, addiction, and me: the real hustler"
[19:32] <ali1234> in that show he mentions this: in poor areas there are 3 pawn shops and 4 betting shops on the high street
[19:32] <mungbean> but the betting shops , how can they be every third shop in such a poor area?
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: why do you think the area is poor?
[19:33] <ali1234> it's only like that in poor areas
[19:33] <ali1234> that's how you tell
[19:33] <mungbean> its worse in poor areas
[19:33] <ali1234> you don't see pawn shops in rich areas
[19:33] <mungbean> allegedly a very muslim area
[19:34] <mungbean> which might reduce the number of customers(are muslims allowed to gamvblr)
[19:34] <mungbean> but they still do very well.
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: officially, they're not.. not that it stops them, of course ;)
[19:35] <mungbean> maybe not, but i wonder what market research is done, and how
[19:36] <mungbean> and who allows it? local council?
[19:37] <mungbean> in the last 10 years gambling has exploded
[19:37] <mungbean> ads on the tv have proliferated
[19:37] <mungbean> in place of alcohol and fags ads
[19:37] <mungbean> Azelphur: they are doing make and paint days during easter :P http://www.hornby.com/hornby-visitor-centre/make-and-paint/
[19:37] <mungbean> you lucky boy
[19:37] <Azelphur> cool :D
[19:38] <ali1234> but easter was last week
[19:38] <ali1234> -end
[19:38] <mungbean> 1st-14th
[19:38] <Azelphur> xD
[19:38] <mungbean> u get to make a kit amd take it home
[19:38] <ali1234> oh, two weeks off school for the kids?
[19:41] <ali1234> anyway, what's wrong with fried chicken? it's the original fast food
[19:41] <ali1234> it's not even that bad for you compared with most others
[19:42] <mungbean> i like it,
[19:42] <mungbean> i was adding a fact to the story
[19:43] <mungbean> chicken/betting/pub/chicken/betting/co-op/cash&carry/curry house/betting shop..
[19:43] <ali1234> you're lucky if you have a co-op
[19:43] <ali1234> i've lived in places where the only place to buy food in a 2 mile radius is the crisps at the off license
[19:44] <ali1234> and this is in the middle of a city
[19:44] <ali1234> plenty of betting shops tho ಠ_ಠ
[20:23] <mungbean> trampoline clips on youvebeenframed...dont think this endswell
[22:35] <locodir> hi guys anyone here?
[22:37] <dwatkins> kinda
[22:37] <locodir> i have a question regarding  ubuntu for server
[22:38] <locodir> i am pretty much new  to ubuntu i am using windows 2003 server on VM
[22:39] <AlanBell> locodir: what is the question?
[22:40] <locodir> is ubuntu good for server ? how does it perform with apache and mysql
[22:40] <AlanBell> performs just fine
[22:40] <locodir> is it recommended to use a different machine for server ?
[22:41] <dwatkins> so long as it's not a slow system and has enough RAM, yeah, no problems
[22:41] <dwatkins> different from the virtual host, locodir?
[22:41] <dwatkins> depends on what sort of load you're talking - at home, I'd just put everything on one machine (although I probably wouldn't run Windows Server in a VM), but for enterprise systems, I'd keep them separate.
[22:42] <AlanBell> yeah, depends completely on load
[22:42] <dwatkins> What does the Windows Server run?
[22:42] <locodir>  i hv  it currently on  my pc on which i do  my dailys  the load isnt much as ihv just started working on my blog
[22:42] <dwatkins> you might be able to host that on linux too.
[22:42] <AlanBell> I would expect a single system to be faster for low loads but a spread out system to be capable of responding more linearly to high loads
[22:43] <locodir> i was bit worried about malware due to incoming connection from port 80
[22:44] <AlanBell> if you are using wordpress or another php application then always update it as soon as updates are available
[22:44] <dwatkins> if you allow users to log in and upload their own PHP scripts, that's a risk.
[22:45] <dwatkins> also, look up 'denyhosts' if you do.
[22:45] <dwatkins> ...or 'fail2ban'
[22:45] <locodir> yeah
[22:45] <AlanBell> if it is just a blog, and you keep wordpress updated it should be fine, thousands of people run it
[22:45] <dwatkins> What are you hosting on Windows, locodir?
[22:46] <locodir> yeah  but my windows server 2003 would crash frequently
[22:46] <dwatkins> that doesn't sound good
[22:46] <locodir> i was just developing my own blog
[22:46] <dwatkins> I'd be very concerned if my Windows server crashed; I have one at work that runs for weeks on end without any such problems.
[22:46] <locodir> i was using iis now i hv switched to apache
[22:47] <locodir> well  but i guess it was kinda my fault as i had left very lil memory and space for vm and load was quite high
[22:48] <dwatkins> that shouldn't make it crash, but perhaps there's something else going on
[22:48] <Pyongyang> Hi All!
[22:48] <locodir> thats why im thinking of  making my old laptop the server with linux and then use ftp
[22:50] <locodir> moreover which language would u prefer for web development django or php?
[22:50] <dwatkins> I have a netbook as my home server, locodir - it runs really well.
[22:52] <locodir> i plan to make my lenovo  3000 n 200  as the new server
[22:54] <Pyongyang> We will destroy the USA and its allies
[22:55] <Pyongyang> Long Live North Korea!
[22:57]  * dwatkins adds Pyongyang to his ignore list
[22:57] <locodir> is django better than php for beginners?
[23:00] <dwatkins> I suspect they're aimed at quite different environments.
[23:00] <dwatkins> Django appears to be aimed at making apps easily, PHP is a versatile language.
[23:00] <dwatkins> I'm sure they both have their merits.
[23:01] <locodir> i started with django for a couple of months and now hv switched to php still not sure which one to go with
[23:02] <dwatkins> I haven't written much PHP, I tend to use apps which have already been written, such as Wordpress.
[23:02] <locodir> even though django is pretty cool  to off in school
[23:04] <dwatkins> to off?
[23:06] <locodir> show"
[23:16] <dwatkins> ah right