[16:31] <bkerensa> le sigh
[16:40] <bkerensa> jbicha: I'm assuming were not going to be doing a raring series for doc?
[16:40] <bkerensa> jbicha: string freeze and all
[16:42] <jbicha> bkerensa: well I could but nothing's changed in 5 months, people can just use the quantal branch
[16:43] <bkerensa> jbicha: yeah the only thing I could see benefiting is that if we had a raring series we could have proper version but other than that
[16:44] <bkerensa> jbicha: shutdown dialogs?
[16:44] <jbicha> hmm?
[16:44] <bkerensa> jbicha: will we mention those in next release?
[16:45] <bkerensa> jbicha: we could update whats-new.page
[16:47] <jbicha> bkerensa: yes you or someone else could do that, because we're past docs freeze you'll have to ask the translators but given that they don't have as much work to do this cycle anyway I expect it would be approved if it happens in the next couple of days
[16:47] <bkerensa> jbicha: I don't have commit
[16:47] <bkerensa> lol
[16:47] <bkerensa> and we don't have a series
[16:47] <bkerensa> if we had the series I could submit merges and get them reviewed
[16:47] <jbicha> do you need a series? I don't believe we'll be doing more quantal updates?
[16:48] <bkerensa> true
[16:48] <bkerensa> so I can just pull the quantal branch and make the changes there yes?
[16:48] <bkerensa> since those wont go back to quantal?
[16:48] <jbicha> ok let me make a series...
[16:55] <bkerensa> jbicha: thx
[16:56] <bkerensa> grabbing and getting to work now
[16:59] <jbicha> ok, it's set up now, it will take a little bit of time for the translations to be imported into the raring series
[17:02] <bkerensa> jbicha: ok I will try and bug you tomorrow when I have some MP's lined up :) sorry I know your busy
[17:06] <jbicha> translators need to finish their work by the morning of April 16 to make it on the release images
[17:06] <bkerensa> kk
[17:07] <bkerensa> jbicha: translations look to be imported in the raring branch
[20:21] <godbyk> jbicha: Should I take some time to edit/proofread the ubuntu-docs raring or is it frozen for translation?
[20:22] <jbicha> godbyk: uh you can ask for an exception
[20:23] <godbyk> jbicha: Okay, I'll take a look at it and see if anything major needs updating.
[22:01] <bkerensa> godbyk: can you run it by me I am already working on getting some changes in
[22:01] <bkerensa> I would hate to see us do the same work :)
[22:02] <godbyk> bkerensa: Sure thing. I was just going to skim through the docs and see if there was anything major out of place.
[22:02] <godbyk> bkerensa: If we weren't beyond the doc freeze date already, I'd probably do a lot of minor editing as well.
[22:03] <godbyk> bkerensa: What areas are you working on currently? Do you have a bzr branch I can follow?
[22:03] <bkerensa> godbyk: well I am updating all references to 12.10 and probably going to do some minor editing
[22:04] <bkerensa> godbyk: not yet.... I just had jbicha create the raring series earlier today so I have not gotten my first push in yet
[22:04] <godbyk> bkerensa: If you're doing a bunch of minor editing already, could you also ensure that Launcher and Dash, for instance, are properly capitalized everywhere? They seem to be inconsistent at the moment.
[22:05] <godbyk> bkerensa: Thanks for that, btw. I had brought up the lack of a raring branch last week but nothing happened.
[22:05] <godbyk> I was beginning to wonder if there were going to be any 13.04 docs at all.
[22:06] <godbyk> bkerensa: Have you stumbled across and docs/procedures for what needs to be done when the editing is complete? How are the final changes published (online and as system docs on the ISO image)?
[22:08] <bkerensa> godbyk: jbicha will have to review them since he can commit them to the branch then myself or he will need to ask the release team for an exception for the changes
[22:08] <bkerensa> godbyk: https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu-docs/raring/
[22:08] <godbyk> bkerensa: Okay.
[22:08] <bkerensa> that will be my branch
[22:08] <godbyk> Thanks.
[22:10] <godbyk> We'll also have to take the screenshots. There's a script that tries to automate that.
[22:16] <bkerensa> godbyk: do you know if that needs to be done in a VM?
[22:16] <bkerensa> godbyk: or a clean install at least?
[22:16] <godbyk> bkerensa: I don't know that it needs to be, but it's probably easier if it is.
[22:16] <godbyk> bkerensa: Definitely a clean install.
[22:16] <godbyk> The script downloads a bunch of example files and will automatically adjust the screen resolution.
[22:17] <godbyk> Then it'll start opening apps and windows and taking screenshots.
[22:17] <godbyk> So I'd suggest running it under a VM with a fresh install.
[22:17] <godbyk> I haven't found any docs for it yet, though, so there may be other setup-related stuff that needs to be done before running the script.
[22:18] <godbyk> I asked Matthew East about it earlier today on the mailing list. We'll see if he has any pointers for us.
[22:21] <jbicha> the screenshot script wasn't working quite right for quantal
[22:22] <bkerensa> jbicha: First MP pending ;p
[22:22] <bkerensa> jbicha: I will probably stage them bit by bit
[22:24] <jbicha> bkerensa: I don't think that merge is particularly useful at this point
[22:24] <jbicha> the 12.10 metadata is just when the files were last checked
[22:25] <godbyk> jbicha: Is the autogen/make stuff still the proper way to build the system docs?
[22:26] <bkerensa> jbicha: yeah will be updating whats-new.page with some new stuff in 13.04
[22:26] <bkerensa> other than that mostly just proof reading
[22:26] <jbicha> bkerensa: you also changed cite dates, which isn't a good idea
[22:26] <bkerensa> oh
[22:26]  * bkerensa reverts
[22:27] <jbicha> godbyk: probably, have you ever built a debian/ubuntu package?
[22:27] <godbyk> jbicha: I've build lots of software before using autotools, yeah.
[22:27] <jbicha> ok but have you built a package before?
[22:28] <godbyk> jbicha: I've built a couple but it's been eons ago.
[22:28] <godbyk> jbicha: So I'd have to have the manual or procedure in front of me to do it again.
[22:29] <jbicha> ok you'll need to build the Ubuntu package as the final step, you can try http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/
[22:29] <jbicha> and if you need more help, you can ask in #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-devel
[22:29] <bkerensa> jbicha: I can build packages
[22:29] <bkerensa> ;)
[22:30] <godbyk> jbicha: Okay, thanks.
[22:30] <jbicha> after making string changes at this point in the release cycle, you'll need to run regenerate the translation template
[22:31] <jbicha> I think that's as simple as running 'make pot' inside the ubuntu-help directory
[22:31] <bkerensa> jbicha: so should we just do the whats-new.page and leave version dates alone and proof read and push those minor changes?
[22:32] <godbyk> jbicha: Will it cause a lot of churn for translators if we regenerate the .pot file each time?  Are we better off waiting and regenerating the .pot file periodically?
[22:32] <jbicha> bkerensa: yes, you can update the versions in the actual text too if they need it
[22:32] <jbicha> godbyk: no I don't think so; otherwise it's even more work for them later on
[22:32] <jbicha> you only have a couple days to make changes
[22:33] <jbicha> since the translators are volunteers too, they need a full week to have a chance to do their thing
[22:34] <jbicha> you don't necessarily need to update the pot after each commit but it doesn't make sense for the translators to translate stuff that's out of date
[22:34] <jbicha> before making a release you'll have to download the translations and reintegrate those into the bzr branch
[22:34] <godbyk> 'kay.
[22:34] <jbicha> I think that is unforunately a manual process since LP uses different names for the files than our branch uses :(
[22:35] <godbyk> jbicha: Yes. It's the same problem we have with the ubuntu-manual project.
[22:37] <jbicha> ok good
[22:38] <bkerensa> jbicha: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu-docs/raring/revision/205
[22:38] <bkerensa> Do you think I should mention the new shutdown dialogs?
[22:41] <jbicha> bkerensa: that's up to you, I don't think they are harder to understand that what we had before though
[22:41] <bkerensa> ok
[22:47] <jbicha> godbyk: I don't know what you use to rename the translations, but I wrote a note to myself in the README in lp:ubuntu-docs that might help
[22:47] <godbyk> jbicha: I'll take a look at it. I have a one-line shell script that I wrote for the manual project.
[22:51] <godbyk> jbicha: Are all of the .page files currently in use? Some of them fail validation.
[22:55] <jbicha> yes, you can check ubuntu-help/Makefile.am to confirm but files shouldn't be named *.page if we aren't shipping them (rename them to .page.stub or something)
[22:55] <godbyk> jbicha: Okay, I'll take a look at the validation issues next.
[22:55] <godbyk> jbicha: I just submitted a simple merge proposal.
[23:04] <jbicha> ok, I approved both of those and pushed
[23:04] <godbyk> jbicha: Thanks.
[23:04] <godbyk> I'll have to brush up on the Mallard docs a bit to fix these validation errors.
[23:05] <godbyk> I'm not sure what elements are allowed where at the moment.
[23:06] <godbyk> (You can run 'for i in *.page; do ./check_validation.sh $i; done' to see the list of validation errors.)
[23:11] <jbicha> yeah the validator is a bit picky
[23:11] <jbicha> obviously I haven't run it often enough
[23:17] <godbyk> jbicha: When and how should the <revision> tag be updated?
[23:20] <jbicha> whenever you want, you can use it to keep track of what pages need to be looked at and which you're marking as final for a release
[23:20] <jbicha> see ./check_status.sh
[23:21] <godbyk> I was playing with check_status.sh. that's what prompted my questions.
[23:21] <godbyk> So the <revision> tag should reflect which version of Ubuntu/the package the page currently refers to?
[23:22] <jbicha> it's an indicator of when the page was last touched
[23:22] <jbicha> once the S cycle starts you might want to bump them all to 13.10 for instance
[23:23] <jbicha> the ones currently marked outdated are good candidates to be looked at though, but probably next cycle
[23:23] <godbyk> Should we bump them all to 13.04 now? Most of them are on 12.10.
[23:23] <godbyk> Fair enough.
[23:23] <godbyk> I know we're in a bit of a tough spot right now since we're so far behind.
[23:23] <godbyk> I don't want to cause to much damage at this late date. :-)
[23:23] <jbicha> you could, like bkerenesa suggested, but it didn't really improve things much to touch every file
[23:24] <jbicha> it probably wouldn't hurt either though
[23:24] <godbyk> jbicha: Well, just bumping the version number alone doesn't really do anything for us, it seems.
[23:24] <godbyk> Is there a script that looks at the pkgname and version to see if that's still the latest?
[23:24] <godbyk> If it's not the latest, it'd be good to know so we'd know that we need to review that page.
[23:25] <godbyk> Once that page has been reviewed and updated for the latest version, that revision tag could be updated.
[23:26] <jbicha> uh, no I don't think so, I believe the only scripts are the screenshot-collectors and the 4 in ubuntu-help/C/
[23:26] <godbyk> Okay.
[23:26] <godbyk> I may look at writing such a script in the future.
[23:26] <jbicha> cool
[23:27] <godbyk> I probably won't be able to help with ubuntu-docs too much this cycle as I need to finish up the manual work first, but I can probably be more useful next cycle.
[23:27] <jbicha> godbyk: have you contributed to ubuntu-docs before?
[23:27] <godbyk> jbicha: Nope.
[23:27] <godbyk> jbicha: The barrier to entry is fairly high and I didn't feel like jumping through all the hoops.
[23:28] <jbicha> I'm not sure it's that much higher than the Manual and if it is, maybe you can fix that
[23:29] <godbyk> Well, it's considerably higher than with the manual project. With the manual project, you just join the team and you can start committing code.
[23:29] <godbyk> With the docs team, you have to fuss about with merge proposals and the like.
[23:29] <godbyk> And the documentation for how to work with the docs code is outdated and scattered about.
[23:30] <godbyk> And when someone does feel adventurous enough to ask on the ubuntu-docs mailing list, they get a somewhat canned response and a list of links thrown at them.
[23:31] <jbicha> Ubuntu in general has a relatively high barrier for commit access and prefers to work with mp's
[23:32] <jbicha> I was surprised at how quickly I was able to get commit rights to all of GNOME (but not release rights)
[23:33] <godbyk> I can understand why, but it does add extra steps between 'doing some work' and 'seeing the results'.
[23:33] <godbyk> With the manual, we've tried to be as open and non-restricted as possible. So far, we haven't encountered any problems.
[23:33] <godbyk> There's been no vandalism or anything.
[23:33] <jbicha> there's been talk about making a new packageset so the docs team can upload new release of ubuntu-docs, xubuntu-docs themselves without needing sponsorship
[23:33] <godbyk> I keep an eye on all the commits so I can help out new contributors with syntax and style errors, but overall it works fairly well.
[23:34] <jbicha> we might need a separate docs devel or release team for that then
[23:34] <godbyk> Of course, the manual doesn't have to deal with packaging and releases like the docs do.
[23:35] <godbyk> That might make sense.