[06:01] <shadeslayer> morning
[06:28] <soee> good morning
[07:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:57] <yofel> moin
[07:58] <lordievader> Hey yofel, how are you?
[08:00] <yofel> lordievader: back at work, otherwise well ;)
[08:01] <smartboyhw> Hello!
[08:05] <lordievader> Good to hear, yofel. Hey smartboyhw, how are you doing?
[08:06] <smartboyhw> lordievader: Good. Came back from first day after school.
[08:10] <lordievader> smartboyhw: Ah and how did it go?
[08:10] <smartboyhw> lordievader: Quite well.
[08:11] <lordievader> :)
[08:13] <shadeslayer> yofel: vHanda tells me http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/nepomuk-core/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_strigi_ram_detection.diff won't work
[08:13] <shadeslayer> nepomukstrigiservice is no more
[08:13] <vHanda> since 4.8 actually
[08:13] <yofel> can we drop it then?
[08:13] <vHanda> If you want to fix it then you need to change the "nepomukstrigiservice" to "nepomukfileindexer"
[08:14] <shadeslayer> ^^
[08:14] <vHanda> The patch disables the file indexer for systems with less than 1 gb of ram
[08:14] <vHanda> I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad
[08:16] <ovidiu-florin> if I may, I think it's a good thing
[08:17] <smartboyhw> Wow a lot of leaving news today on Planet Ubuntu.
[08:17] <smartboyhw> jbicha leaving docs team, Ohio LoCo contact change + jono leaving for holidays in Australia.
[08:18] <shadeslayer> not much actual leaving there :P
[08:45] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: leaving doesn't mean permanently:P
[09:52] <yofel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-users/2013-April/057760.html
[09:52] <yofel> does the akonadi nepomuk feeder actually work for someone?
[09:52] <yofel> it doesn't here
[09:53] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1166102] Cannot mix incompatible Qt library @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1166102 (by Mohamed IKBEL Boulabiar)
[09:58] <jussi> yofel: what is that? 
[09:59] <yofel> jussi: not exactly sure, I think it's what manages the email indexer for example
[10:00] <jussi> yofel: so what are the signs it "works" or "doesnt work" ?
[10:00] <yofel> the issue in the thread was that mail address auto-completion stopped working
[10:01] <yofel> and here the feeder says "Nepomuk is not operational: Nepomuk is not running"
[10:01] <yofel> while nepomuk *IS* enabled, and the file indexer works fine
[10:01] <jussi> oh. Ive never had autocompletion working, except for recent addresses... ever
[10:01]  * yofel -> lunch
[10:01] <yofel> more debugging later
[10:03] <ovidiu-florin> I'm curious about something, do you guys work for kubuntu or kde, or an organization that supports kubuntu or kde? or do you have other jobs and lots of free time? how do you manage?
[10:06] <smartboyhw_> ovidiu-florin: Whoa that's complex. I think Riddell is employed by Blue Systems (originally it was Canonical, but they quit sponsoring Kubuntu) to make Kubuntu nice. (Maybe wrong)
[10:06] <ovidiu-florin> I've also read that somewhere
[10:06] <smartboyhw_> For others, we just are contributors. Spending our free time in this.
[10:06] <ovidiu-florin> how come you have so much free time?
[10:07] <smartboyhw_> ovidiu-florin:Not me:P
[10:07] <smartboyhw_> I only contribute after school.
[10:08] <ovidiu-florin> may I ask, smartboyhw_ how old are you?
[10:08] <smartboyhw_> ovidiu-florin: 14
[10:09] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: I'm employed by Blue Systems as well, to work on Kubuntu/KDE
[10:09] <shadeslayer> @_@
[10:09] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: you're no longer the youngest
[10:09] <smartboyhw_> shadeslayer I dunno that much.
[10:09] <smartboyhw_> shadeslayer: LOL
[10:09] <ovidiu-florin> who is the youngest?
[10:10] <ovidiu-florin> (how old?)
[10:10] <smartboyhw_> We do have quite some people in the community that are 14-15 (even 13)
[10:11] <smartboyhw_> James Grifford, an Ask Ubuntu mod, is 16.
[10:11] <smartboyhw_> Josee Antonio Rey, the Ubuntu On Air guy, is 15.
[10:11] <ovidiu-florin> that makes me feel very old
[10:12] <smartboyhw_> Doak Jackson, a QA contributor, is of the same age as me.
[10:12] <smartboyhw_> Amith KK, a really high-rep guy in Ask Ubuntu and is a developer of the Unity Tweak Tool, is 13 (or 14)
[10:12] <smartboyhw_> See?
[10:13] <ovidiu-florin> oh, the odacity. Why did I not discover this durring highschool?
[10:13] <smartboyhw_> Thankfully we don't have elderly.. 
[10:13] <ovidiu-florin> smartboyhw_: what do you mean by that?
[10:16] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: I've just answered an e-mail from someone who wants to help out and says "I am 76; I have worked through computers from valves to transistors as programmer"
[10:16] <Riddell> so it takes all ages :)
[10:18] <ovidiu-florin> I was hoping for that
[10:21] <yofel> ovidiu-florin: I have a day job unrelated to kubuntu, I just spend most of my free time here
[10:22] <jussi> ovidiu-florin: Im 31, on the KC and have a day job that is not for Kubuntu, although the company I work for does create linux based emedded systems
[10:22] <ovidiu-florin> yofel: what about time to spend with the family?
[10:24] <ovidiu-florin> shadeslayer Riddell if you are hired to work on kubuntu/kde do you work on a specific part or you are mostly overseeing how the progress works?
[10:26] <jussi> ovidiu-florin: shadeslayer works on kde telepathy... mostly because I would shoot him if he ever abandoned it :P :P :P :P :P
[10:26]  * jussi hugs shadeslayer
[10:27] <yofel> ovidiu-florin: well, I'm still single so that helps ;P. I don't go out that often either, but for the rest, it's not like you see me here all the time (or when you do quassel nicely hides where I am)
[10:27]  * ovidiu-florin remembered he had a question about telepathy and kopete
[10:28]  * ovidiu-florin does not want to change the subject yet, so he postpones the question
[10:29] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: I work on anything that's needed
[10:30] <Riddell> boy/girlfriends are a big limiting factor for free software :)
[10:30] <ovidiu-florin> :))
[10:31] <ScottK> Children too.
[10:31] <ovidiu-florin> :(
[10:32]  * ScottK is down to one at home, so it's less of an issue now.
[10:32] <Riddell> until you teach those children how to help out :)
[10:32] <ovidiu-florin> I had an ideea on how I could combine free software and alos make money and have time for the family
[10:33] <ovidiu-florin> but I'm not sure yet if it could work
[10:33] <ScottK> Riddell: True.  Daughter #2 is now studying information technology at University, so there's hope.  She's doing something with C++ this semester.
[10:34] <ovidiu-florin> what is your opinion, is kubuntu ready for use in schools and work?
[10:34] <ovidiu-florin> if yes, than my ideea could work.
[10:35] <ovidiu-florin> I'm using kubuntu at work but I've had many problems with it and I'm not that sure that other people might not, or even be so patient with it to fix the problems
[10:35] <yofel> we need more help on the Q/A side, otherwise I don't see why not
[10:36] <yofel> wth. just restarting the akonadi nepomuk feeder agent makes it work...
[10:36] <yofel> need to watch this on next reboot
[10:36] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: I'm more or less making sure packaging is fine, some automation work, some kde work
[10:36] <shadeslayer> a bit of everything :P
[10:37] <ovidiu-florin> my idea is to start a company that will offer support and training on KDE/Kubuntu. The OS and applications are free but the training and support are not.
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> I believe I'm not the first with this idea. 
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> but I have not seen it implemented anywhere.
[10:38] <shadeslayer> you'll need to get a copyright exemption from Canonical I think
[10:38] <shadeslayer> Riddell knows more
[10:38] <ovidiu-florin> shadeslayer: for what?
[10:39] <shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: to start the support/training thing
[10:39] <shadeslayer> s/copyright/trademark/
[10:39] <kubotu> shadeslayer: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[10:39] <ovidiu-florin> I was thinking that I just need the Kubuntu councils approval
[10:40] <ovidiu-florin> and the same for kde
[10:41] <shadeslayer> dunno, there's some company that was going to provide support for kubuntu, and they had to ask for a Trademark exemption or sth with Canonical
[10:42] <smartboyhw_> ScottK: I am a child…
[10:42] <ovidiu-florin> shadeslayer: and what happened to them?
[10:43] <shadeslayer> still waiting on Canonical for some paperwork I think
[10:46] <ScottK> shadeslayer: I think that they chose to do so because it reduced their business risk.  I also think Canonical believes you have to ask, but I also think they are wrong.
[10:46] <shadeslayer> I see
[10:46] <ScottK> smartboyhw_: Yes, but you are not getting in the way of your parent's contributions.  
[10:46] <ScottK> That's my challenge.
[10:47] <smartboyhw_> ah lol
[10:48] <Riddell> "Adam Conrad (adconrad) renewed their own membership in the Kubuntu Members (kubuntu-members) team until 2014-04-14" cor infinity still loves us
[10:48] <smartboyhw_> Whoa!
[10:49] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: of course kubuntu is ready for schools and work, the world's biggest linux desktop rollout is Kubuntu in every school in Brazil
[10:49] <smartboyhw_> Riddell: What's infinity's history in Kubuntu?
[10:51] <smartboyhw_> Back.
[10:51] <smartboyhw_> Riddell: Any replies?
[10:51] <ovidiu-florin> smartboyhw_: not yet
[10:52] <smartboyhw> And hello on laptop:P
[11:01] <apachelogger> there are weird bug reports in my inbox again :(
[11:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: whatever happened to you :'(
[11:01] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, :(
[11:02] <smartboyhw> What happened to JontheEchidna !?
[11:02] <apachelogger> he's not workign on kubuntu bugs anymore
[11:03] <Riddell> smartboyhw: infinity personally compiles every package, if we don't let him in we'll have to create some sort of computer programme to do the compiling
[11:03] <smartboyhw> Riddell, :(
[11:03] <smartboyhw> Riddell, wow:)
[11:03] <smartboyhw> Damn the :( is targetted at apachelogger ...
[11:24] <smartboyhw> Eeek
[11:24] <smartboyhw> A 14-year-old Italian LoCo person is going for Ubuntu Membership... Seems young people are really good at contributing
[11:29] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:30] <smartboyhw> Welcome BluesKaj 
[11:31] <BluesKaj> hi smartboyhw
[11:36]  * smartboyhw finds that the 4 candidates for KC election are all approved during 2010-2011
[11:36] <smartboyhw> and clearly, there were much less people approved for 2012.
[11:36] <smartboyhw> approved = membership
[11:37] <smartboyhw> Duh:(
[11:38] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: KC election?
[11:38] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, yep. You don't know that!?
[11:38] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: are you talking about kubuntu council or something else?
[11:39] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, Kubuntu Council:)
[11:40] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: with memberships you mean kubuntu membership?
[11:41]  * smartboyhw doesn't know anything having a KC abbreviation except Kubuntu Council
[11:41] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, yep.
[11:41]  * smartboyhw really isn't clear this time
[11:41] <smartboyhw> One reminder: NEVER use LibreOffice while updating packages.
[11:42] <Tm_T> hmm, rather good if ar nominees are rather new faces in that sense
[11:43] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, er after the last Council candiadate approved for Kubuntu membership (yofel) there are only 7 new Kubuntu members. 
[11:43] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: aaah
[11:44] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, yep:P
[11:44] <Tm_T> but this "smartboyhw finds that the 4 candidates for KC election are all approved during 2010-2011"
[11:44] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, yep
[11:44] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, yofel at EARLY 2011 (March)
[11:44] <smartboyhw> He was approved at that time.
[11:44] <Tm_T> would be rather sad if all candidates would be back from 2006-2007
[11:45] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, Grrr that I think will be for next year's election:P
[11:45] <smartboyhw> The much more older generation :P
[11:45] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: reminds me of IRC team, many of us have been around since 2005 or so ...
[11:45]  * yofel notes that we have 3 open seats and 4 candidates. So it's likely that you'll have one person apply next year ;)
[11:46] <smartboyhw> yofel, +1 though.
[11:46]  * smartboyhw might run in 2015, who knows:P
[11:46] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, that makes sense.
[11:46] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: why that late?
[11:46] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, erm I am a NEW Kubuntu member. And I am quite young.
[11:46] <smartboyhw> Not good for leadership.
[11:46] <Tm_T> one year is a long time
[11:47] <Tm_T> and you're not alone in the council (:
[11:47] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, erm then look at yofel and shadeslayer and valorie they all got aproved in 2010-2011 and they are running for the first time (I think, maybe not valorie) ...
[11:47] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, :)
[11:47] <Tm_T> and?
[11:48] <Tm_T> don't be like me and wait 5 years before stepping up for council
[11:48] <smartboyhw> Tm_T,  you mean the IRC one?
[11:48] <smartboyhw> Or the Kubuntu one?
[11:48] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: in this case I'm referring to any council
[11:48] <Tm_T> or any similar position
[11:49] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, I mean in YOUR case where you ran for a certain council after 5 years
[11:49] <smartboyhw> You said "don't be like me
[11:49] <Tm_T> I mean my activity was at its highest back in 2007-2008 or so, and I waited quite a long before stepping up
[11:49] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, oh
[11:51] <Tm_T> it's easy to wait too long and you find out you don't have all the time you used to have anymore
[11:51] <smartboyhw> Tm_T, that's a +1
[11:51] <Tm_T> this with life in general btw
[11:51] <smartboyhw> Maybe I should run in 2014, I'm not sure I can do anything in 2016.
[11:51] <yofel> shadeslayer: you're not by any chance familiar with the procedure to keep the last kernel installed after a release upgrade? (as we now auto-remove kernel < current_kernel-1)
[11:51] <Tm_T> waiting a better moment that never comes (:
[11:51] <smartboyhw> The public exam:(
[11:51] <yofel> shadeslayer: that's what fails on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/upgrade3/
[11:52] <shadeslayer> yofel: not really, no
[11:52] <yofel> hm...
[11:52] <shadeslayer> afaik there is a post-install script that removes the old kernels
[11:56] <yofel> aah, /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal right
[11:57] <shadeslayer> indeedly
[11:59] <yofel> ok, this seems sensible. It marks the running, and fresh kernel as not-auto-remove
[11:59] <yofel> as my test box already runs on 3.8.0, 3.5.0 obviously isn't whitelisted and gets removed making the test fail
[12:04] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: You have to do precise backports
[12:04] <Quintasan> I'm totally ill
[12:06] <Quintasan> I felt like crap yesterday and though it was just me being tired from the conference but I guess not
[12:06] <shadeslayer> okay
[12:06] <shadeslayer> once I get back
[12:07] <Quintasan> sure
[12:07]  * Quintasan hits the bed
[12:22] <Mamarok> Quintasan: get well soon!
[12:23] <smartboyhw> Quintasan, we hope you get well soon:)
[12:38] <Riddell> ug, this kubuntu install was an ubuntu unity install and now whenever I look at a web page in firefox it says "do you want to install google calendar" or whatever, no explanation of what that means
[12:38] <apachelogger> for some reason I get the GTK upgrader
[12:38] <apachelogger> lol
[12:39] <smartboyhw> Riddell, LOL It means the Unity Webapps
[12:40] <lordievader> smartboyhw: Ugh my chromium install allways complains about that Unity Webapps thing. Luckily you can disable the plugin :)
[12:40] <Riddell> lordievader: yeah I noticed that too, so annoying
[12:40] <Riddell> every time you look at a web page in chrome it complains about missing plugins
[12:40] <Riddell> crazy
[12:40] <smartboyhw> Riddell, :)
[12:40] <smartboyhw> lordievader, :)
[12:41] <lordievader> Its quite funny, on my own website the plugin tell me I need an additional plugin to view everything...
[12:41] <smartboyhw> lordievader, :O
[12:42] <Riddell> the unity launcher seems slow too, open it and it just shows a spinning cursor for ages
[12:42] <smartboyhw> Riddell, ;P
[12:42] <smartboyhw> Riddell, that's why KDE exists!
[12:43] <lordievader> Riddell: Since when are you using Unity?
[12:43] <smartboyhw> And all the other DEs.
[12:43] <smartboyhw> lordievader, yesterday I think. He installed vanilla Ubuntu to test something (dunno what it is)
[12:43] <apachelogger> that world view seems a bit off....
[12:43] <Riddell> lordievader: wanted to test if my printer got automatically set up
[12:43] <Riddell> which it doesn't in unity or kubuntu
[12:43] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, world view?
[12:43] <smartboyhw> Riddell, how old is your printer?
[12:43] <Riddell> suse does but only if you enter your password 5 times then find a box marked "freeze this" to untick
[12:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: talk to Till?
[12:44] <Riddell> smartboyhw: dunno, a few years, drivees are all there
[12:44] <Riddell> drivers
[12:44] <apachelogger> worked last I tried it with mine
[12:44] <smartboyhw> Riddell, hmm
[12:44] <apachelogger> smartboyhw: the other DEs being there because unity is shit
[12:44] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, +1
[12:45] <Riddell> gosh, harsh, nuff flaming please
[12:45] <apachelogger> what the view should be is that unity is there because canonical likes control
[12:45] <smartboyhw> You guys do know what happened when a guy asked about why Studio doesn't use Unity? (Should 've mentioned it days ago)
[12:45] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, +1
[12:46] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/04/08/plasma-desktopBQ2309.png
[12:46] <apachelogger> Riddell, shadeslayer: what's with the telepathy removal?
[12:46] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: telepathy removal?
[12:47] <shadeslayer> aha
[12:47] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, plasma-widget-telepathy-chat...
[12:47] <smartboyhw> And -presence
[12:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: everything is now in kde-telepathy-desktop-applets
[12:47] <apachelogger> ah
[12:48]  * apachelogger gets the feeling that he has excessive amounts of gnome installed
[12:48] <apachelogger> there should be a command 'shrink-my-upgrade'
[12:48] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, not good
[12:48] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, LOL
[12:48] <apachelogger> which purges libqt4 and libgtk :P
[12:49] <smartboyhw> Not good:P
[12:49] <apachelogger> y?
[12:49] <apachelogger> smaller upgrade for sure :P
[12:50] <apachelogger> so
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: where do we go with kdesudo in the long term?
[12:51] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, I won't like purging libqt4 and libgtk....
[12:51] <apachelogger> well
[12:51] <apachelogger> shrink-my-upgrade will do that :P
[12:51] <apachelogger> so you upgrade with less crap around and then install-on-need
[12:52] <apachelogger> or for all I care, purge and then install kubuntu-desktop
[12:52] <smartboyhw> +1
[12:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: mm, does it have any problems?
[12:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: it would be nice to have it in kde I suppose
[12:57] <apachelogger> it is unmaintained
[12:57] <apachelogger> bug 1165852
[12:57] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, you mean in upstream or Ubuntu? (Or Debian?)
[12:57] <apachelogger> also it's session feature is broken IIRC
[12:57] <apachelogger> has bene for quite a while
[12:57] <apachelogger> smartboyhw: upstream is all of those
[12:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: would it not perhaps be better to transit to pkexec?
[12:58] <smartboyhw> eee OK
[12:58] <apachelogger> or something polkit based anyway
[13:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: what do we do with apport-kde?
[13:07] <apachelogger> anyone tested dist-upgrade from quantal to raring?
[13:07] <apachelogger> well
[13:07] <apachelogger> release-upgrade
[13:07] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, not me 
[13:07] <yofel> yes
[13:08] <apachelogger> yofel: did you get the GTK UI?
[13:08] <smartboyhw> Speaking of that, let me set up three VMs for KDE SC testing:P
[13:08] <yofel> while trying to set that auto-upgrade thingy up
[13:08] <yofel> apachelogger: no, even in VM's I always upgrade on cli
[13:08] <apachelogger> brr
[13:08] <apachelogger> qa fail
[13:08] <apachelogger> kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade and docs are broken
[13:09] <apachelogger> with python3 do-release-upgrade became case sensitive it seems
[13:09] <yofel> k-d-r-u worked the last time I tried it though - was a month or so ago
[13:09] <apachelogger> so -f kde will not work as there is no DistUpgradekdeView
[13:09] <apachelogger> -f KDE works though
[13:09] <yofel> or oxygen-gtk is too good lately
[13:09] <apachelogger> probably latter
[13:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^
[13:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: I have no clue who to talk to or where the release-upgrader thingy is that is downloaded by do-release-upgrade
[13:11] <apachelogger> it either needs code changes in the MainView.py to remove the case sensitivity OR a symlink of DistUpgradeViewKDE.py to DistUpgradeViewkde.py
[13:11] <apachelogger> former seems more reasonable
[13:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: ubuntu-release-upgrader is the source package
[13:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: various people work on it e.g. mvo, mterry
[13:21]  * apachelogger can't type h in rekonq hooray
[13:22] <smartboyhw> Riddell, !?
[13:22] <smartboyhw> oops
[13:22] <smartboyhw> s/Riddell/apachelogger/
[13:22] <kubotu> smartboyhw: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[13:22] <smartboyhw> Yay for kubotu!
[13:27] <apachelogger> dunno
[13:27] <apachelogger> wanted to log in at a site, can't type h
[13:28] <lordievader> That is one odd bug, can you still type "http://"?
[13:33] <apachelogger> not in the website I can't
[13:34] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, that is really a weird bug.
[13:34] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, does work for me here
[13:42] <apachelogger> :O
[13:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: it appears to have been broken for ages
[13:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade ?
[13:43] <apachelogger> yes
[13:43] <Riddell> hmm it worked when I tested it
[13:43] <apachelogger> it only works by chance ... in that if no other views can be loaded it will use the KDE one
[13:44] <apachelogger> -f kde is not a legit argument, never has been apparently
[13:44] <Riddell> ah
[13:45] <apachelogger> should be -f DistUpgradeViewKDE
[13:45] <apachelogger> !find kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade
[13:46] <apachelogger> oh well
[13:47] <apachelogger> brr
[13:47] <apachelogger> apparently bzr is busted as I am upgrade right now
[13:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you please fix it?
[13:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: okay dokay
[13:48] <apachelogger> thx :*
[13:49]  * apachelogger also thinks that this-will-install/remove/upgrade: dialog needs redoing
[13:49] <apachelogger> right now it is an insanely long list of "Remove: foo\n Install:bar\n..."
[13:50] <Riddell> the release upgrade tool has been surprisingly overlooked by canonical's design team
[14:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: perhaps they don't do upgrades
[14:13] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, um we DO test upgrades. However I don't like testing it.
[14:13] <smartboyhw> In Ubuntu Studio we almost want to dump the upgrade tests.
[14:14] <smartboyhw> We actually have to include "UPGRADE IS NOT RECOMMENDED" in the release notes LOL
[14:14] <smartboyhw>  
[14:14] <sreich> wow..
[14:14] <apachelogger> just haxx0r whatever package manager ui you use
[14:14] <sreich> so basically the advice is "reinstall"
[14:14] <sreich> aka like windows?
[14:14] <smartboyhw> sreich, yep. We aren't supposed to do that but...
[14:15] <apachelogger> windows does a really good job at upgrading itself!
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Anyway we rather want to work on better upgrades from 12.04 to 14.04 :P
[14:15] <sreich> i hope ;)
[14:15] <sreich> because upgrade failing is..embarrassing as hell
[14:15] <apachelogger> tell that to the ubuntu firefox people
[14:16] <apachelogger> bricking firefox upgrade on kubuntu for the 30000th time
[14:16] <apachelogger> smartboyhw: stop doing interim releases I guess
[14:17] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, uh hum you do know stop doing interim releases is the No,1 HATE for me?
[14:17] <apachelogger> they still can upgrade to them and whatnot
[14:18] <apachelogger> there just is no supported studio release 13.04
[14:18] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, we DO support.
[14:18] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:18] <apachelogger> stop it
[14:18] <smartboyhw> ...
[14:19] <apachelogger> if you want kickass experience on LTS versions then stop spending time on other stuff
[14:19] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, we do want to implement some of that in 13.10, then make it perfect in 14.04
[14:20] <apachelogger> that does not mean 13.10 needs to be any sort of supported release
[14:20] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, and why won't we support?
[14:20] <apachelogger> because it's not LTS
[14:20] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, and why won't we support non-LTS releases?
 Anyway we rather want to work on better upgrades from 12.04 to 14.04 :P
[14:21] <apachelogger> that's why
[14:21] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, um because we don't have that for 10.04 -> 12.04 already
[14:22] <smartboyhw> So if we really don't go and improve upgrades we will get shot
[14:22] <apachelogger> if you want LTS to rock then stop putting resources in stuff that does not improve LTS
[14:23] <apachelogger> and having/supporting interim releases does absolutely nothing for LTS other than being a testing version of what will be the next LTS (in which case you'd still not want to support it as release)
[14:23]  * Mamarok hates moinmoin with passion, their markup is really weird
[14:24] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, the strange thing is: People do like interim releases for a taster.
[14:24] <apachelogger> Mamarok: also it's slow 
[14:24] <apachelogger> smartboyhw: that does not mean you need to support it
[14:24] <apachelogger> that also does not mean you need to actually give the an interim release full QA
[14:24] <apachelogger> it's like when you develop some library
[14:24] <apachelogger> and a release an alpha
[14:25] <Mamarok> yeah, dreadful, and there is no markup in kate for it, only mediawiki
[14:25] <apachelogger> you then do not start supporting that alpha and release alpha1.1 alpha1.2 alpha1.3 just to ensure people using alpha1 actually have no bugs
[14:25] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, well we don't do full QA:P We just do Beta 2 + final
[14:25] <apachelogger> still too much
[14:26] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, what's the point of doing an release while we don't support it?
[14:26] <apachelogger> [x] does it do full disk install with all default options [x] does it boot\n done.
[14:26] <apachelogger> smartboyhw: I just explained that
[14:26] <apachelogger> if you care about LTS
[14:26] <apachelogger> then an interim release is nothing but a alpha/beta of the LTS
[14:27] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, well then: Why care for LTS = no care for interim releases!?
[14:30] <apachelogger> you have limited amount of people, limited amount of people have limited time; support requires time; limited time - support time = development time; development time := time spent on making next version excel
[14:31] <apachelogger> the more time you spend supporting versions you do not care about the less time you have to spend on the versions you actually care about
[14:31] <apachelogger> result is that all versions are mediocre in quality and/or features and/or support
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Extremely quiet today.
[15:07] <Riddell> trying to book travel
[15:07] <Riddell> how do I get to Bilbao?
[15:08] <Riddell> hmm, not easy by train http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#Pamplona
[15:08] <smartboyhw> Riddell, plane?:P
[15:08] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:08] <smartboyhw> Coach?
[15:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: ship?
[15:15] <genii-around> According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilbao-Abando there are daily runs between there and Segovia
[15:17] <Riddell> there is a ferry from the south of england but only a couple times a week
[15:19] <Riddell> and I need a car
[15:20] <smartboyhw> Riddell, rent one:P
[15:22] <Riddell> "The flight requested is no longer available"  oh skyscanner, why are you so cruel?
[15:22] <smartboyhw> Riddell, oh oh:P
[15:34] <Quintasan> Riddell: Why are you going there?
[15:34]  * Quintasan got some rest and is feeling better
[15:35] <Riddell> Quintasan: Akademy!
[15:35] <Quintasan> still I don't feel like I have the strength to move around
[15:35] <Quintasan> Riddell: Oh I see.
[15:35] <Riddell> Quintasan: you coming?
[15:36] <Quintasan> Riddell: not really
[15:37] <Quintasan> ill + no monies
[15:41] <Riddell> Quintasan, shadeslayer: what's the status of telepathy?
[15:41] <shadeslayer> Riddell: apachelogger surely a spaceship is the best medium of travel
[15:41] <shadeslayer> Riddell: Quantal + Raring is up
[15:41] <Quintasan> precise needs work
[15:41] <shadeslayer> I'm working on precise now
[15:41] <Quintasan> Great.
[15:41] <shadeslayer> might have a bit too much whisky though, let's see
[15:42] <Quintasan> You're a heavy drinker I see :P
[15:42] <shadeslayer> this my second whisky after the one with you :P
[15:42] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, you really have a big alcohol volume:P
[15:42] <shadeslayer> not really
[15:43] <shadeslayer> the label on the bottle said scotch + whisky
[15:43] <Quintasan> wat
[15:43] <shadeslayer> though aren't the two the same?
[15:43] <shadeslayer> yeah
[15:43] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what's a look link to put on the Dot story?
[15:43] <Quintasan> Those are definitely not the same shadeslayer
[15:43] <shadeslayer> oh?
[15:43] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: https://launchpad.net/~telepathy-kde/+archive/ppa
[15:44] <shadeslayer> erm, Riddell ^
[15:44] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_whisky
[15:44] <Quintasan> if it was not made in Scotland then I'd ask for refund :P
[15:44] <shadeslayer> yeah, I'm reading the same thing
[15:44] <shadeslayer> rofl
[15:45] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: do you have a backport script for quantal?
[15:45] <Quintasan> No
[15:45] <Quintasan> I was too lazy to write one
[15:45] <shadeslayer> daw, how did you do it yesterday then?
[15:45] <Quintasan> backportpackage -d quantal -u ppa:telepathy-ppa .dsc
[15:45] <Quintasan> sup
[15:46] <Quintasan> argh
[15:46] <shadeslayer> uh 0.o
[15:46] <Quintasan> my head hurts now that I had to think about something technical
[15:46] <Quintasan> damn you shadeslayer
[15:46] <shadeslayer> lol
[15:46] <shadeslayer> <3
[15:46] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: You are going to Akademy?
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Switching to mobile, preparing for sleep.
[15:47] <Riddell> Quintasan: they really are the same
[15:47] <Quintasan> Riddell: scotch == whisky?
[15:47] <starbuck1> ping Riddell
[15:47] <Riddell> hi starbuck1 
[15:47] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: yeah
[15:47] <shadeslayer> if I get visa stuff sorted out
[15:48] <Riddell> shadeslayer: Dot story updated
[15:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I thought the dot story already had that link? ( from what I can see on kde-promo
[15:48] <shadeslayer> )
[15:48] <Quintasan> Riddell: pls throw some bricks at shadeslayer for making me use my brain today
[15:48] <shadeslayer> haha
[15:49] <Riddell> shadeslayer: not the vesion jos put to be publishes on the dot
[15:49] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: If things work out Riddell might be my roomie
[15:49] <Riddell> Quintasan: I'm nonviolent!
[15:49] <starbuck1> tried to install kubuntu today over a machine that already had netrunner with swap installed and ubiquity failed with the message, that it cannot create swap... neither if i chose use whole disk or if tried to partition manually....
[15:50] <Riddell> um, erk
[15:50] <Riddell> starbuck1: can you file a bug and attach or send me logs in /var/log/syslog /var/log/installer ?
[15:51] <starbuck1> its very similar to this:
[15:51] <starbuck1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/905628
[15:51] <starbuck1> ubottu :)
[15:51] <Riddell> starbuck1: what version of kubuntu is this?
[15:52] <starbuck1> beta 2
[15:52] <Quintasan> wat
[15:52] <Quintasan> regressions in installer?
[15:52] <shadeslayer> in beta 2 :(
[15:52] <starbuck1> well, it installed fine on another machine
[15:52] <Quintasan> phew
[15:52] <Riddell> and it didn't come up in testing at all
[15:52] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: our installer is python, isn't it?
[15:53] <starbuck1> hmmm
[15:53] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: yus
[15:53] <shadeslayer> needs more testcases I say
[15:53] <Quintasan> I'd blame it on python then
[15:53] <starbuck1> another thing i noticed: if you are connected to the inetenret, the check first shows a green arrow, so its okay
[15:53] <smartboyhw> What happened?
[15:54] <starbuck1> then, if you waited for 30 seconds before htting "next", it did become red "X", and never green again, although i am pretty certain the internet was fine all along, since it is ethernet cable
[15:54] <starbuck1> pinging google at the same time showed nothing wrong
[15:55] <starbuck1> so after that, timezone, etc. was all not set right and had to be adjusted by me manually
[15:55] <starbuck1> on that other machine where it did install
[15:56] <starbuck1> maybe i have odd machines :/
[15:56] <Riddell> odd machines or no this shouldn't happen
[15:56] <Riddell> starbuck1: but we really need logs to say much more, do you still have them?
[15:56] <starbuck1> since it was from live-usb, i can try again tomorrow at work :)
[15:57] <starbuck1> and then send over any logfiles
[15:57] <Riddell> starbuck1: yeah I think that's what it needs
[15:58] <starbuck1> okay , was just chekcing if someone nopticed this other already
[16:01] <Riddell> starbuck1: no I'm afraid it's new to me
[16:01] <Quintasan> same here
[16:04] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what ho(s)tel are you using for akademy?
[16:05] <shadeslayer> whatever hostel KDE is booking
[16:05] <shadeslayer> Riddell: didn't you apply for sponsorship?
[16:06] <Riddell> seaLne: what hostel is KDE booking?
[16:07] <seaLne> Riddell: Blas de Otero
[16:07] <seaLne> Riddell: see http://akademy2013.kde.org/accommodation for details
[16:11] <apachelogger> kde bug 184202
[16:11] <shadeslayer> seaLne: somehow KDE seems to have acquired a bunch of awesome web designers
[16:11] <seaLne> oh?
[16:12] <shadeslayer> yeah, akademy.kde.org seems really awesomely designed to me, the whole neverland theme across the wiki's also seems quite awesome
[16:16] <Riddell> seaLne: any idea on the best way to fill in the PDF booking form?
[16:19] <seaLne> Riddell: print; take photo; email sadly
[16:19] <seaLne> shadeslayer: yeah i like the continuity accross sites
[16:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: fwiw ktp-call-ui is ftbfs
[16:22] <shadeslayer> probably because you forgot to remove the patch :P
[16:27] <Riddell> seaLne: and do we have to sort out our own room shares?
[16:28] <seaLne> Riddell: we haven't fully discussed that, if you can pick someone thats less work
[16:29] <Riddell> seaLne: shadeslayer put me down as partner but presumably that's on a sponsorship form somewhere I'm not filling in
[16:29] <seaLne> yeah
[16:30] <seaLne> sorry the booking process isn't great we are constrained by the university
[16:31] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: what the flying fsck
[16:31] <shadeslayer> Quintasan:   "* 啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊" in the changelog
[16:31] <Quintasan> dnt ask me
[16:31] <Quintasan> lol
[16:32] <shadeslayer> I don't even ...
[16:32] <Quintasan> look up one of those in dictionary\
[16:32] <Quintasan> like hell, google it
[16:32] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: >exclamatory particle
[16:32] <shadeslayer> "ah ah ah ah"
[16:32] <Quintasan> it's like OH!
[16:32] <Quintasan> as in OH SHI-
[16:33] <smartboyhw> Quintasan, shadeslayer; That's exclamation words
[16:33] <Quintasan> I know that
[16:33] <Quintasan> I still have no idea how to pronouce it
[16:33] <smartboyhw> But why on Earth would Chinese (Traditional) words appear in the changelog?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
[16:33] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: tbh when you zoom in, it looks like ABAJ
[16:34] <Quintasan> I did that :P
[16:34] <smartboyhw> ah ah ah ah ah ah ...
[16:34] <smartboyhw> Quintasan: LOL
[16:34] <smartboyhw> .......
[16:34] <smartboyhw> Quintasan: Heh very funny eh?
[16:35] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: not sure, just felt like testing how launchpad deals with that
[16:35] <Quintasan> turns out it works just fine
[16:35] <shadeslayer> "ftplib.error_perm: 550 Requested action not taken: internal server error"
[16:35] <shadeslayer> hurra
[16:35] <Quintasan> I was kind of expecting a timeout
[16:35] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: Last time I uploaded something with kanji in changelog it did timeout
[16:35] <Quintasan> :P
[16:36] <smartboyhw> \o/
[16:36] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: it doensn't have any vulgar meaning or sth?
[16:38] <smartboyhw> Quintasan: It is a bit unsuitable.
[16:38] <Quintasan> why is that?
[16:38] <Quintasan> should that be a part of sentence or something?
[16:38] <smartboyhw> If the voice gets uploaded to YouTube it will get immediate removal due to ****** content....
[16:39] <Quintasan> ...
[16:39] <Quintasan> wat
[16:39] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: kill that package
[16:39] <shadeslayer> kill what 
[16:39] <Quintasan> the 啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊 package
[16:40] <shadeslayer> heh, already uploaded again
[16:40] <Quintasan> ok
[16:40] <smartboyhw> damn it:O
[16:40]  * shadeslayer waves fist at backportpackage for being slow
[16:40] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: That's what you get for using random symbols xD
[16:45] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: Where are you uploading the backport to?
[16:45] <smartboyhw> The Backports PPA or?
[16:45] <shadeslayer> the ppa
[16:45] <smartboyhw> Phew:P
[16:46] <shadeslayer> not the kubuntu one
[16:46] <shadeslayer> but the telepathy-kde one
[16:46] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: https://launchpad.net/~telepathy-kde/+archive/ppa
[16:47] <smartboyhw> OK
[16:47] <shadeslayer> oh fun
[16:48] <shadeslayer> someone bought up the "aptitude by default on the ISO" debate
[16:48] <shadeslayer> does aptitude even work wrt upgrades?
[16:49] <smartboyhw> I use apt-get sorry I don't know how to use aptitude
[16:49] <shadeslayer> well, it's more or less the same :P
[16:50] <maco> dist-upgrade was renamed to full-upgrade since that makes more sense and aptitude includes searching, so you dont have to remember apt-cache
[16:51] <Riddell> shadeslayer: aptitude should work but it's not supported
[16:51] <shadeslayer> Riddell: thought so, I don't think it works all the times
[17:16] <BluesKaj> aptitude has architecture issues with 64 bit I believe...kind of a braod statement ,but forget the particulars
[17:16] <BluesKaj> err broad 
[17:38] <lordievader> Good evening
[17:38] <Riddell> hi lordievader 
[17:39] <lordievader> Hey Riddell, how are you doing? Already figured out how to get to Akademy?
[17:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: new konversation snapshot should appear shortly in new
[17:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://trello.com/c/lRxnI0fD
[18:00] <apachelogger> it's sad how my konvi 1.5 card is the only one that seems to deliver sensible release results -.-
[18:01] <apachelogger> ScottK, Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-settings/+bug/1164854
[18:01] <yofel> shadeslayer: it had long broken multiarch support
[18:01] <yofel> shadeslayer: should work fine these days
[18:02] <apachelogger> oh
[18:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://trello.com/c/lk6tPTxt
[18:02] <yofel> except that it would be reduntant (except for a few features that are rarely used)
[18:02] <apachelogger> so much crap to do -.-
[18:02] <apachelogger> yofel: can we defer 'make pkg-kde-tools add -dbg packages automatically' to 13.10?
[18:02] <yofel> do it
[18:03] <apachelogger> also the package test?
[18:03] <yofel> ack
[18:03] <yofel> anything that affects the tooling
[18:03] <yofel> bbiab
[18:03] <apachelogger> Quintasan: pretty please make me admin on the 13.10 trello board :S
[18:05] <Quintasan> apachelogger: done
[18:05] <apachelogger> cheers
[18:05] <apachelogger> now public
[18:06]  * apachelogger needs to write that trello 101 he was talking about :S
[18:06] <apachelogger> -> dinner
[18:38] <lordievader> I got another strange bug. When I go to a tty and return to KDE my keyboard (PS/2) doesn't respond for some 30 seconds or so.
[18:47] <Mamarok> lordievader: on a laptop?
[18:48] <lordievader> Mamarok: Desktop.
[18:48] <Mamarok> silly me, should have been obvious from the connection type :)
[18:49] <lordievader> Also system load seems to increase a lot.
[18:49] <Mamarok> not related to the problem I had, then
[18:49] <lordievader> After a while it goes back to normal. Well not entirely normal, load spikes now and then... strange.
[18:58] <yofel> lordievader: long running session? I'm seeing plasma getting sluggish and hanging sometimes when switching desktop effects on/off. But only happens when the session has been running for 5 days or so
[19:01] <lordievader> From this morning, does that count as long? I'll switch the desktop effects.
[19:01] <Mamarok> no, that is quite short
[22:03] <Riddell> ScottK: yay pykde4 looking good
[22:48] <valorie> apachelogger: I tested dist-upgrade from raring to quantal, on both 32 and 64
[22:48] <valorie> during beta 1
[22:49] <valorie> if there was somewhere to report that success, I didn't see it
[22:49] <valorie> er, do-release-upgrade
[22:50] <Riddell> valorie: iso tester is the place to report it
[22:50] <yofel> the iso tracker has test cases for the upgrades as well
[22:50] <Riddell> valorie: do you remember if you used kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade ?
[22:52] <apachelogger> nevermind, the issue is understood now :P
[22:52] <apachelogger> iff you have the pygtk and friends installed it will use the gtk ui
[22:53] <valorie> I did not
[22:53] <apachelogger> if you don't but have pykde you get the kde ui
[22:53] <valorie> the iso tester had no place for an upgrade, at least when I looked
[22:54] <apachelogger> it may well be that there is no trackingin place
[22:54] <valorie> perhaps I looked in the wrong place -- I've tested and reported on an upgrade before
[22:54] <valorie> but this time around saw the rest of the testcases, but not that one
[22:55] <valorie> perfect success, but I haven't done much actual testing on what works and what doesn't
[22:55] <yofel> valorie: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds
[22:55] <yofel> see last test group at the bottom
[22:55] <yofel> er, 2nd last
[22:56] <valorie> shoot, why isn't it with the rest of kubuntu?
[22:56] <valorie> sheesh
[22:56] <valorie> ok
[22:57] <valorie> hmmm, url to the hardware profile?
[23:01] <valorie> got it
[23:02] <yofel> that's meant to be a link to a profile generated by checkbox. Just pastebin lshw somewhere and link to that
[23:09] <valorie> I'm doing it the launchpad way
[23:09] <valorie> s'ok
[23:12] <ScottK> Riddell: Cool.
[23:12] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm letting Riddell decide that one.
[23:15] <Riddell> ScottK: which one is that?
[23:16] <ScottK> The one about redoing all the boot time/startup artwork.
[23:16] <ScottK> 1164854
[23:22] <Riddell> hmm, no screenshots attached
[23:38] <valorie> this is me on Konvi as packaged in raring
[23:38] <valorie> Version 1.5-branch #4215
[23:39] <valorie> trello says test it..... so far, so good
[23:49] <valorie> I like how logging into the KDE bnc works on two 'puters