[00:25] valorie: <3 [00:43] and this is me on Konvi Version 1.5-branch #4215 on my 32-bit netbook [00:44] time to get ready to see my daddy tonight [01:48] I guess we need to decide if the vUDS thing is any better than getting together on Mumble again. [03:18] In case anyone else noticed the whining on kubuntu-users about kdepim address autocompletion in KDE 4.10.2, I just cherrypicked the fix and uploaded to raring. Someone who cares might want to update the PPAs too. [04:55] ScottK: what would be cool is if telepathy became good and reliable for us to us [04:55] our own tech [04:55] * valorie couldn't get mumble to work [07:01] Riddell: have you got any further idea on the skype/qtwebkit issue? [07:16] Good morning [07:23] skype/webkit issue? it works fine for me [07:25] There were a couple of people lately with problems, Skype+Raring. (Works fine for me too ;)) [07:38] dpm: heya, two more apps needing review https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/kubuntu-notification-helper/+imports https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/kubuntu-firefox-installer/+imports [07:39] morning apachelogger, approved :) [07:40] <3 dpm [07:40] dpm: any idea when we would get to see the first langpack export? [07:40] we are very close to having a working localization again :D [07:42] apachelogger, I've had not much time to spend on translations this cycle. I'll see if I can block tomorrow to make it a translations day and look at it [07:42] dpm: this would be really awesome [07:56] shadeslayer: skype + qtwebkit 2.3 + proprietary graphics driver => SIGSEGV [07:56] aha [07:57] so it's a proprietary driver issue no? [07:57] well, downgrading qtwebkit works for all drivers [07:57] h [07:57] and I don't believe they build against qtwebkit [07:57] huh [07:57] the bt is crap though, so hardly debuggable [07:57] so, RC works and final release doesn't? [07:58] no, 2.3 doesn't work, you need to install qtwebkit from 12.10 [07:58] oh [07:58] use that in raring and skype works fine [07:59] using qtwebkit from 12.10 will be bad for the browsers :/ [07:59] Is it something that can be fixed in the 2.3 version of qtwebkit? [07:59] dunno, bug 1155327 [07:59] bug 1155327 in skype (Ubuntu Raring) "skype crashed with SIGSEGV in malloc@plt()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155327 [08:00] Hopefully it will be fixed before the release. [08:06] hm [08:06] I had audio [08:06] and then I didn't [08:07] ah yes [08:07] alsa [08:07] love of my life [08:07] it's like X11 except it's audio [08:08] Hehe and to make it even better there is the combination of Alsa and Pulseaudio :D [08:11] apachelogger: any ideas if we should still have this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/nepomuk-core/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_strigi_ram_detection.diff [08:11] because it won't work [08:11] shadeslayer: why don't you just fix the patch? [08:11] * shadeslayer wonders who authored that, no DEP 3 [08:11] vHanda: yeah, but the question is do we ship it or drop it [08:12] shadeslayer: no strigiiii [08:12] I don't know the reason why we added that patch [08:12] at the very leas the patchy name is wrong :P [08:12] apachelogger: yeah, so theoretically the 1GB limit is crap [08:13] oh [08:13] ssl in python is broken [08:13] nice [08:13] really? 0.o [08:13] takes forever and 3 days [08:14] or perhaps my pythonssl is broken [08:14] well, I was getting weird errors [08:14] I blame alsa [08:14] last night [08:14] you could have pasted the patch ya know :P [08:14] + if (service->desktopEntryName() == "nepomukstrigiservice") { [08:14] that's wrong [08:15] shadeslayer: patch needs changing to nepomukserver [08:15] but do we really need the patch now [08:15] because strigi is gone [08:15] I don't know, ask ScottK [08:16] ScottK: ^^ [08:16] IMHO we can just drop it because indexing doesn't take up a boatload of RAM now [08:16] from the patch it seems that it was added to prevent nepomuk from running on systems with <= 1gib ram [08:16] well.... [08:16] * vHanda would recommend some actual testing [08:17] I think vHanda should apply that upstream and reduce the value to something like 512mib [08:18] there is some usefulness to not having it use resources on weak systems [08:18] like say a netbook [08:18] though most netbooks have 1gib so that is probably where that value comes from [08:18] however... [08:18] I doubt we will encounter many systems with 512 ram running kde [08:19] recent cheapo tablets also like to have 1gib [08:19] so [08:19] ... [08:19] roll a dice [08:19] If you guys have some time to test out how much memory this new file indexer takes that would be awesome [08:19] cause it should take a lot less, but I haven't done concrete testing [08:20] all nepomuks take 31mib it seems [08:20] being idle [08:22] I just read up, and noticed talk about getting to Bilbao [08:22] I'm planning to take the bus from Madrid [08:22] anyone else going to Madrid first? [08:22] what's in Madrid? [08:23] a bus station :P [08:23] lol [08:24] the Prado! [08:24] and a big airport, which is why I'll be there first [08:24] should be hotter than the hubs of hell [08:25] unfortunately [08:25] Bilbao will be nicer [08:26] seems like I can fly from stuttgart to bilbao directly [08:27] hi vHanda .... do you mind a couple of questions? we have a long hanging at start on a production machine due to nepomukservices apparently .... we are talking about mayve 300 sec. 64 bit, kernel 3.5, kde 4.10.2, distribution kubuntu 12.10. Fairly stable. [08:27] eos: shoot [08:28] shadeslayer: where did you book the accomodation? I still need to do that [08:28] 12.10 = which kde version? [08:28] vHanda: we do not understand where this hang up comes from. when the machine is shut down with no new files, the hang up happens all the same. [08:28] yofel: shadeslayer: Aren't KDE e.V booking that? [08:28] vHanda: it seems the indexeer is trying to index something that is not there. [08:28] vHanda: I don't get sponsored, so I probably need to take care about that myself? [08:29] probably :) [08:29] eos: I'll need to know which KDE version you're running [08:29] on that topic [08:29] yofel: it's Blas de Ottero ( or something like that ) [08:29] also which process is the blocking one (the full process name, not just the executable name) [08:29] vHanda: yes, I put it in my orignal message. [08:29] vHanda: 64 bit, kernel 3.5, kde 4.10.2, distribution kubuntu 12.10. Fairly stable. [08:29] ah [08:30] yofel: http://akademy2013.kde.org/accommodation [08:30] sorry. Okay. now I'm interested since it's 10.2 [08:30] * apachelogger should look into travel organization tomorrow -.- [08:31] Riddell: any chance I could bill kubuntu at least for my flight costs? (some ~230€ from what I see) [08:31] eos: lets take this over to #nepomuk-kde ? [08:32] vHanda: ok! [08:36] oh [08:36] there is a bug! [08:36] NO [08:36] :@ [08:50] ping Riddell [08:52] I can confirm with the latest beta2, the installer bug "the attempt to mount a file system with type swap in SCSI2 (0,0,0) partition #5 (sda) at none failed" is there [08:52] Riddell: yofel do you guys have idea why user-manager is not in the seeds? [08:53] shadeslayer: not an adequate replacement for userconfig IMO [08:53] (yet) [08:53] I see [08:53] afiestas_: ^^ [08:53] most notably: you cannot manage groups [08:54] and I don't want to replace userconfig with user-manager+kuser [08:54] I don't think user-manager was ever targetted towards managing groups [08:54] yofel: is userconfig working? [08:54] well, how do you manage them? and don't dare to say CLI [08:54] the entire point of user-manager was to be able to manager users in a very simple way [08:54] apachelogger: yes [08:55] if you're managing groups, use userconfig/kuser [08:55] you do not manage user groups [08:55] ! [08:55] exactly [08:55] you manage users [08:55] who can be admin or user [08:55] sure, but you need to be able to add a user to a group [08:55] end of story :P [08:55] that's REALITY [08:55] no you don't [08:55] you need to be able to make a user admin [08:55] any other use case is some obscure geek crap [08:55] yep [08:56] * apachelogger breaks grub2 [08:57] "obscure geek crap"? [08:57] UDS-1305 got announced. [08:57] don't you mean LINUX? [08:57] smartboyhw: surely you mean vUDS [08:58] I'm sorry, I mean GNU/Linux [08:58] lol [08:58] real geeks don't use linux anymore [08:58] it's gotten too mainstream [08:58] nowadays we cool kids use some bsd [08:58] right [08:58] alas, my laptop is not booting with bsd anymore :( [08:58] I broke something [08:58] heh, I've been meaning to try out bsd [09:00] hi starbuck1 [09:01] starbuck1: it's the same bug you pointed to yesterday? [09:01] I remember my son bemoaning how easy linux was getting to be [09:01] shadeslayer: Yep. [09:01] it's like some obscure band which makes it big [09:01] the old fans bemoan the good old days [09:02] when the band was THEIRS [09:02] yofel: coming to akademy? [09:02] Riddell: yep [09:02] smartboyhw: The people with Skype problems in Raring are suffering from bug 1155327. [09:02] bug 1155327 in skype (Ubuntu Raring) "skype crashed with SIGSEGV in malloc@plt()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155327 [09:03] * yofel doesn't bemoan the good old days. groups are simply a part of linux permission management [09:03] yofel: great, I'd be all for kubuntu paying for useful people's travel, that'll need to be proposed to the council [09:03] and unless we have a sane ACL implementation that won't change much [09:04] Riddell: true, I'll write up a mail once I get to it [09:05] yofel: we have that, it changes nothing [09:06] lordievader: Not good:( [09:06] groups are a big part of any permission management [09:06] that does not mean they need to be managed by users [09:06] smartboyhw: Yofel found a fix though, install Quantal's version of qtwebkit... :( [09:06] that's not a fix... [09:07] Workaround then ;) [09:07] another thing would be to LD_PRELOAD mesa's libgl it seems [09:07] a tool needs not necessarily be used by users *and* sysadmins [09:07] which is freaky [09:07] in particular user management is something where you can have a simple tool for your actually common tasks like making someone admin so they can install new games or something [09:08] and at the same time a sysadmin tool that can manage ldap and stuff [09:09] ok, so what do we do? use user-manager, remove user part of userconfig and rename it to group-manager? [09:09] userconfig is unmaintained [09:09] we'd have user-manager and we'd have kuser [09:10] then make a replacement. I just consider not being able to manage groups a regression (and no, I don't count konsole as a UI) [09:10] -.- [09:10] kuser [09:10] . [09:10] userconfig is a crap tool compared to kuser [09:11] hm [09:11] ldap support is a must-have for sysadmin user maangement [09:11] hm.... [09:11] ... [09:11] .:.…. [09:11] :D [09:12] LOL [09:12] apachelogger making sense feels weird [09:12] yofel: Why? [09:12] just talking rubbish [09:12] yofel: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/04/09/plasma-desktopYG2215.png [09:12] regarding ACL btw [09:13] no clue why ext doesn't enable it by default [09:14] well, we could hve dicussed this when we brought the topic in the mailist [09:14] (and it seemed that everybody agreed on user manager) or in UDS [09:14] @_@ [09:15] [ubuntu/raring-proposed] grub2 2.00-13ubuntu3 (Accepted) [09:15] this is going to be fun [09:15] apachelogger: so what would be your plan, add user-manager and kuser instead of userconfig? [09:16] no kuser [09:17] why would you put kuser on the seed? [09:18] I'm currently trying to decide whether it's the intended procedure to have someone read the KDE admin manual to find out how to manage groups [09:18] otherwise people will never know about kuser [09:19] it doesn't feel very constistent to have dolphin manage group permissions, but not being able to manage those groups anywhere [09:19] *consistent [09:20] what's a use case? [09:26] having a folder which is shared between several users? [09:27] was thinking about that, but you can do that in other ways too [09:27] for home users I'd imagine the main use case is adding and deleting users [09:27] unless it really needs to be restricted to a specific group - which you would probably never do on a standalone system [09:29] apachelogger: I fear I stand beaten - except for the case of some retarded system service that needs a user in a specific group so it works [09:43] yofel: those services should then add it via postinst [09:55] apachelogger: just looked up the original discussion on the ML. We did talk about groups, but I can't see an actual decision on what to do [09:56] * yofel -> lunch [10:16] Riddell: bug 1164854 got screenshots now [10:16] bug 1164854 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFE] Kubuntu Boot Artwork Update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164854 [10:19] \o/ [10:20] Looks good apachelogger :D [10:28] apachelogger: does that align with the lightdm/ksplash/plasma themes [10:28] ? [10:30] it's better than the gray stuff we currently have ;P [10:32] what potential bugs could come from updating this? [10:39] * Riddell nudges apachelogger ⇈ [10:46] Riddell: doesn't align as we won't change the ones you mentioned, though the new boot artwork is pretty neutral colorwise so it will be less of a color clash than what we have now [10:47] potential bugs: broken plymouth splash [10:49] whoops, disconnected [10:49] Riddell: did you get my reply? [10:49] apachelogger: yep [10:49] k [10:49] apachelogger: is there a text only theme for plymouth? [10:50] ah yes [10:50] forgot to snapshot that [10:50] basically just black background with white colors for the rest [10:51] eh, black background, white name, blue dots (i.e. like the 16bit one) [10:52] * apachelogger needs to pitch about-distro to some other distros [11:05] hm [11:07] agateau_: I am wondering about perhaps allowing the about-distro config to overload the distro name [11:07] e.g. kubuntu-settings-desktop would override Ubuntu to Kubuntu; kubuntu-settings-active would overrride Kubuntu to Kubuntu Active [11:08] such that you could establish product branding ontop of the same platform [11:14] popey: would it be snobby to suggest we only allow users who know their own e-mail address? [11:14] apachelogger: override /etc/lsb-release ? [11:16] Riddell: yes [11:18] Hiyas all [11:18] apachelogger: how would it know where to look for the override? [11:18] Riddell: it'd be config based [11:19] so regular settings cascade [11:19] kubuntu-settings-active has its own kcm-about-distrorc with Name=Kubuntu Active [11:19] kubuntu-settings-desktop has a kcm-about-distrorc with Name=Kubuntu [11:20] linux-mint-settings has kcm-about-distro with Name=Linux Mint KDE or something [11:20] apachelogger: that could work [11:20] in a UI context that would nicely do away with the paltform vs. product problem of LSB === greyback is now known as greyback|lunch [11:23] apachelogger: bug 1164854 approved! [11:23] bug 1164854 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFE] Kubuntu Boot Artwork Update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164854 [11:23] \o/ [11:24] <3 [11:24] apachelogger, what happened?:) [11:24] Hmm digiKam 3.2.0-beta1 is out. [11:25] Should we package it into Raring? (Probably not an good idea now) [11:25] smartboyhw: too late for beta things [11:25] smartboyhw: now calligra on the other hand... [11:25] Riddell, yep:) [11:25] Riddell, damn let me download:P [11:25] * smartboyhw packages calligra NOW [11:26] * apachelogger yawns NOW [11:26] thanks :) [11:26] apachelogger, lOL [11:27] Riddell, hmm how do I receive updates for new calligra packaging? Seems no way to know:P [11:27] Riddell: +1 [11:28] smartboyhw: they're posted to the top secret kde-packager list [11:28] Riddell, grrr:P [11:28] smartboyhw: I think that needs a bug filed on b.k.o for sysadmin to subscribe you [11:28] Riddell, b.k.o? [11:28] smartboyhw: file one and I'll back you up [11:28] bugs.kde.org [11:28] Riddell, :) [11:31] Riddell: bug 1157280 [11:32] bug 1157280 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) "print-manager plasmoid not applied on update" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157280 [11:32] Riddell, some strange things though. (Like Reproducibility or that:P) [11:33] Riddell, what should I set for severity? [11:34] apachelogger: hmm, I did that :( [11:34] smartboyhw: just put junk in there [11:34] Riddell, did:P [11:34] Riddell, severity = ? [11:35] apachelogger: do you have /usr/share/kde4/apps/plasma-desktop/updates/02-add-print-manager.js ? [11:35] smartboyhw: as high as you dare [11:35] Riddell, I don't dare more than normal:P [11:36] Riddell, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318083 [11:36] Error: Error getting KDE bug #318083: NotPermitted [11:36] LOL [11:36] sysadmin requests are private [11:36] yofel, ah. [11:36] Riddell: hm [11:36] smartboyhw: added a todo for calligra somewhere? [11:36] just so we know who's working on it [11:37] yofel, probably not. Trello board editing now:P [11:37] Riddell: ah yes [11:37] Riddell: works now [11:37] do we really need to use trello for that... [11:37] * apachelogger manages Riddell's trello cards now :O [11:38] apachelogger, :O [11:38] yofel, erm anyway no problems I think === dpm is now known as dpm-desktop [11:39] well, no, it's just that we now have like 3 locations where we track packaging todo's [11:39] * davmor2 wonders where the maniacal laughter is coming from, oh apachelogger has his mic on again :D [11:40] yofel, we *should* make it centralized. [11:41] smartboyhw: there's a tradeoff between centralized, managable and consistency. We'll need to talk about that at Akademy [11:42] yofel: not a problem as long as they are all tracked on trello [11:42] just slab the links on the description [11:43] then put a link on the ninja pad that points people to the board in trello that they should look at [11:45] when should trello be used and when a bug is an issue [11:46] I have a todo item to sort out bugs needed for release [11:46] but I'm not sure if they should go on trello or what [11:47] shouldn't be a big issue, trello is just work items but slicker [11:53] IMO use trello whenver you have an work item that is not a bug *or* when you have a bug that needs fixing on multiple levels (or needs multiple steps to fix in general) *or* you have an issue/bug that is of general interest to the team at large [11:53] glorified team todo [11:55] having a bug and a trello card is unavoidable at times though ... e.g. getting plymouth artwork changed required the team to make the changes and then the formal process of getting a freeze exception [11:56] so I suppose on a general note things that need formal documentation ought to go into bugs; that does however not mean that there cannot be a trello card as well [11:56] right, it makes perfect sense when you have multiple steps that you can define in advance [11:56] (bugs are technically not meant to be used as a means to trakc work items :)) [11:57] they work pretty well though for package requests [11:57] yofel: mh, it's a matter of scaling really [11:58] you can have a big card with many steps [11:58] or many tiny cards [11:58] or many boards with many cards [11:58] how do you draw the line there? [11:58] you don't need to? :P [11:58] whatever works best... [11:58] for 4.10.2 I found the trello card to be pretty useless [11:59] e.g. if you wanted to track release packaging you could do that in a board [11:59] for columns you'd have the discrete state of a package [11:59] needs-upload; needs-building; built; needs-testing; whathaveyou... [12:00] you then move the cards (packages) from state to state [12:00] once all arrived in the good-to-publish column you are done [12:00] ktp has stopped connecting to facebook and gtalk for me, should I be worried? [12:00] Riddell: probably shadeslayer broke it? :P [12:00] gtalk works here, but took a while to connect [12:00] works fine for me [12:00] apachelogger, :P [12:01] apachelogger broke it by releasing phonon [12:01] it's funny because I didn't [12:01] also it's sad because I didn't [12:02] shadeslayer: kde-telepathy is onlt 0.5.80? [12:02] also breaking kde4libs now [12:02] apachelogger: that in itself makes sense, but esp. for packaging I would like to have things where all people with permission to change a package can find the TODO [12:02] Riddell: the meta package wasn't updated, I don't think it's required to update that [12:02] and ubuntu's de-facto standard for that are bugs right now [12:02] the todo items are primarily meant for notes and to prevent duplicate work [12:03] shadeslayer: it means if I want to get the latest kde-telepathy by installing kde-telepathy it doesn't update [12:03] yofel: as I said whatever works best [12:03] e.g. needs-packaging should not go to trello IMO [12:04] Riddell: whut? the meta package depends on >= 0.5.80 [12:04] not only anyway [12:04] we need a page that explains what to use when and where to find it [12:04] todo for akademy [12:04] first we ought to discuss whether we are going to continue using trello :P [12:05] seeing as I am the only one using it excessively anyway :P [12:05] it's a question of whether it's good enough to replace work items [12:05] does it scale well to the number of WIs we have? [12:05] hey, I use it too, and shadeslayer I believe [12:05] apachelogger, em we just used it for 1 or 2 months I think [12:05] indeedly [12:05] I use it as well [12:06] yofel: not as much as me :P [12:06] oh and will other ubuntu teams get confused/annoyed by us not using the work items they're used to [12:06] <- quite the fanboy [12:06] Riddell: WIs are broken, not our fault :P [12:06] and it means we won't get pretty graphs of work items, but then do we care? [12:06] Riddell: regarding scaling though ... it really only depends on how we approach it [12:06] Riddell, I don't:P [12:06] IMO they're more flexible than blueprints. And ubuntu's todo item burndown page is just broken [12:06] yofel, why!/ [12:07] ? [12:07] Riddell: e.g. stuffing all the crap into one board is likely not going to be successful [12:07] smartboyhw: broken? I would like a page that doesn't have broken links all over the page [12:07] yofel, hmm.. [12:07] maybe they improved it, but my last impression of it was pretty much a static page [12:07] might as well make it a picture [12:08] yofel, try the current one. [12:08] Riddell: so I believe what was a blueprint ought to be a board in trello, so per board you have some 10-20 work items which is stil fine [12:08] It does update for us. [12:08] smartboyhw: got a link? forgot where it was [12:08] status.ubuntu.com yofel [12:08] Riddell: uploaded meta-kde-telepathy [12:08] needs approval probably [12:09] Riddell: another approach would be to replace a blueprint with a meta-card ... i.e. a card with a checklist of subitems, then whenver someone starts working on an item they tick it in the metacard and create a new card for that item [12:09] creation on-demand one coudl call that ^^ [12:09] * apachelogger likes the multi-board approach better though [12:09] smartboyhw: for example: you have a work item related to studio and wubi. But if I click on your name there I end up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/+specs?role=assignee [12:09] that's obviously the wrong query [12:10] yofel: they are much more borken than that [12:11] yofel, you said "You want to find a page that doesn't have broken links er well the main page isn't:P [12:11] ok, they seem to have fixed most of the rest of the page [12:11] hard to edt if there are loads of items [12:11]