[06:52] <Lil-|^Red> Alo'  Red Morning Light | http://spoti.fi/10ReCAJ
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: getting in? :)
[07:07] <kvarley> Having a bit of pain getting grub installed on an external USB drive. I have a Ubuntu FS which is unpacked onto an EXT4 partition on the USB drive, I've changed the fstab to match the UUID. Installed grub via grub-install but it won't boot when I plug it into my laptop. any ideas on stuff I might have missed?
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe the laptop can't boot off USB?
[07:08] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I know it can :)
[07:08] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: did you grub-install to /dev/sdx or /dev/sdx1?
[07:08] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: # grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt /dev/sda
[07:09] <kvarley> The laptop shipped with Windows 8 but I have disabled secure boot, could it still be causing issues?
[07:09] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: I'd bind-mount /dev, /sys and /proc in to (where you've mounted /) and chroot into it :)
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: --boot-directory never worked for me
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: ah.. it still UEFI-boots? Do you have the UEFI boot partition stuff?
[07:10] <kvarley> Oh yeah sorry, once chrooted to /mnt I did mount sys mount proc mount dev
[07:10] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: No, that'd be why then :P
[07:46] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: getting in what?
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: btc
[07:47] <ali1234> i've been in it for two years...
[07:47] <ali1234> i was just checking the version in precise... because that version is going to stop working soon
[07:47] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1159832
[07:48] <diplo> AlanBell or TheOpenSourcerer, either of you about ?
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: \o/
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> 'sup?
[07:48] <diplo> Hiya, just got a question ref vTiger if you could help
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> sure
[07:49] <diplo> A friend of mine runs a charity and wants some CRM software, I suggested vTiger and SugarCRM, but have used neither and know you guys use vTiger, just wondering benefits over either to recommend
[07:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> vtiger is opensource. Sugar is opencore (loads of the good bits are proprietary/expensive).
[07:50] <diplo> Also mentioning your company for support details as well and maybe installation but not sure where they are going to go with it
[07:50] <diplo> Ah, I thought i read something like that this morning
[07:50] <diplo> vtiger was forked from Sugar from what i read earlier a few years ago ?
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, ~2005 IIRC
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> now they are very different.
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do shedloads of vtiger work. We are getting several new enquiries every week currently
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> We can host it if they want. We can customise it.
[07:52] <diplo> Not sure what money they have yet, was just a question on facebook this morning, just linked her to your website
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
[07:53] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:55] <diplo> Thanks for your input :) didnt want to spout off rubbish
[07:55] <diplo> Any new applications for the job yet ?
[07:55] <diplo> Morning MooDoo
[07:55] <MooDoo> I've been sharing the job application :)
[07:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: We have interviewed one and will be seeing another candidate on Friday.
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for reminding me - better get spamming the ether again today. Just in case anyone missed it.
[08:03] <diplo> heh, I'd love to do it but one i don't i can afford to and secondly I'm not really close enough :)
[08:03] <diplo> "i don't think i can afford to*"
[08:06] <jacobw> Morning
[08:06] <MooDoo> and i'm not clever enough lol
[08:06] <diplo> pfft
[08:06]  * TheOpenSourcerer keeps quiet
[08:06] <MooDoo> lol
[08:06]  * TheOpenSourcerer goes back to hacking vtiger CRM
[08:08] <MooDoo> :p
[08:10] <jacobw> I'm not if my own python scripts count as a 'contribution to open source projects'
[08:10] <jacobw> I guess they're on Launchpad :P
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just in case anyone missed it and is wondering what the discussion is about: http://www.libertus.co.uk/about-us/jobs/7-free-software-engineer ;-)
[08:13] <diplo> heh
[08:18] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ooo new job?  what's that all about ;) lol

[08:25] <mungbean> know any company thats looking to use high performance clusters, but doesn't want to own their own one?
[08:26] <mungbean> our company has beefy clusters and looking to engage with other business to let others use spare capacity
[08:27] <mungbean> (not sure if Azelphur bitcoin enterprises counts)
[08:29]  * Lil-|^Red buys an Silver Ubuntu sticker.
[08:53] <JamesTait> Happy sibling day, folks! :-D
[09:20] <jacobw> JamesTait: Sibling Day? Really?
[09:20] <JamesTait> jacobw, if daysoftheyear.com is to be believed. Which I'll let you decide. ;)
[09:21] <jacobw> Haha
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> What if one's sibling is dead?
[09:21] <JamesTait> jacobw, it's on the internet, it must be true, right?
[09:22] <JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, then I suggest today is a good day to remember their memory. ;)
[09:22] <JamesTait> Honour their memory.
[09:22] <JamesTait> Something.
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - never really liked him that much.
[09:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> But yes - a good idea. I will ponder on my bro's memory for a while.
[09:23] <mungbean> :-|
[09:23] <mungbean> sibling day is usually called their birthday
[09:24] <JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, reminds me of a plaque I saw above a bar once: "All of our customers bring us pleasure - some by arriving, others by leaving."
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:25] <MooDoo> it's my birthday next week....booooo
[09:25] <mungbean> why boo
[09:26] <MooDoo> mungbean: another year older lol
[09:29] <mungbean> MooDoo: nah, its another day older
[09:29] <mungbean> you grew a year older in the 364 days in between
[09:29] <JamesTait> mungbean, +1
[09:29] <JamesTait> Er, no pun intended.
[09:30] <mungbean> :P
[09:30] <MooDoo> i'm 21 again :) lol
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 0x21
[09:32] <MooDoo> :)
[09:36] <mungbean> amazon cloud player is awful for linux users
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> s/for linux users//
[09:37] <popey> i found aquarius's blog post about google play on linux to be interesting
[09:37] <MooDoo> +1 sounds like all you need is HAL and you're good to go
[09:37] <mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Expert-Ltd-Magnetic-Education/dp/B006FTCL02/
[09:37] <popey> yes, tested it, works well
[09:37] <mungbean> there must be a cool use for this
[09:38] <MooDoo> I do like google play
[09:38] <mungbean> linky please popey?
[09:39] <popey> http://kryogenix.org/days/2013/04/09/watching-films-on-ubuntu-in-england
[09:39] <mungbean> once your album is in cloud player you have to use a UA switcher to get the amz file and use in clamz
[09:40] <popey> or you could upload to google music
[09:40] <popey> which works fine on ubuntu
[09:41] <MooDoo> yup I use google music
[09:44] <mungbean> popey: i bought the albums in amazon though
[09:44] <mungbean> so it's getting them out thats the pain
[09:47] <mungbean> netflix etc have done a good job of conning non-customers into thinking they are a massive library of all films ever
[09:47] <popey> i dont actually use google or amazon music, I only use spotify
[09:47] <popey> but I am tempted to switch away
[09:47] <mungbean> i like to own music
[09:47] <popey> i dont use netflix for films, but tv series
[09:47] <mungbean> as i only buy around 10 albums a year max
[09:48] <mungbean> and the last 2 were suddenly reduced from £15 to £3
[09:49] <Lil-|^Red> popey, If it's for the spotify client : You need to put your suggestions here.. http://bit.ly/ZgMQvE
[09:50] <Lil-|^Red> leaves
[09:50] <popey> what?
[09:51] <SuperMatt> mungbean: you want to get really angry at netflix, try somethink like mediahint that proxies your connection
[09:51] <SuperMatt> the american netflix actually has more episodes of Doctor Who than the UK version
[09:51] <SuperMatt> AND they actually have torchwood episodes
[09:51] <popey> so does the uk one
[09:52] <SuperMatt> I didn't spot torchwood, so I retract that one
[09:52] <mungbean> i like films, but only good ones. hence i don't end up watching many that were made west of land's end
[09:52] <popey> all four seasons
[09:52] <SuperMatt> but essentially, I think they're using the same  advertising here as in the states, which means we are lead to believe there's a lot, when there really isn't
[09:53] <popey> 5 seasons of doctor who too
[09:53] <SuperMatt> there's 6 seasons on US netflix
[09:53] <mungbean> iplayer should do a paid service - why on earth don't they?
[09:53] <mungbean> where you can access all old content
[09:54] <Myrtti> Lil-|^Red: wouldn't it be easier if you'd stick to the same nickname?
[09:54] <mungbean> i heard a rumour that some bbc employees have access to such an archive
[09:54] <SuperMatt> I would prefer a single, broadcaster ambivolent service
[09:54] <jacobw> Hmm, the BBC would have difficultly operating a subscription service
[09:54] <popey> not just bbc employees
[09:54] <popey> i have a non-bbc friend who got access
[09:54] <jacobw> SuperMatt: See Porject Canvas
[09:54] <mungbean> so it's real?
[09:54] <popey> it allows you to download any programme for the main networks, not just bbc
[09:55] <popey> it captures each programme, and you can download the raw mpeg2 stream
[09:55] <mungbean> i want
[09:55] <popey> i tried to get access but they stopped signups
[09:56] <mungbean> missed last 2 minutes of a documentary t'other day, and 4od didn't have it
[09:56] <mungbean> youtube did, but i was in the wrong country (!?!UK!!!)
[09:56] <mungbean> official 4od youtube channel
[09:56] <mungbean> craziness
[09:56] <popey> that happens sometimes
[09:57] <popey> I have had it too, I moaned at a friend whose company provide some of the backend
[09:57] <popey> he said it is a problem with one of the (multiple) CDNs they use
[09:57] <popey> the GEOIP fails sometimes
[09:57] <mungbean> i'll try again from work then  :P
[09:57] <popey> heh
[09:58] <mungbean> is there a 4od downloader?
[09:58] <BigRedS> I've long maintained that if you're using geoip to do something important you've made a mistake somewhere
[09:59] <popey> no
[09:59] <popey> I do love variety - http://launchpad.net/variety
[09:59] <mungbean> google play gives you 30 days to choose a 2 day window to watch the film. not bad i suppose
[09:59] <popey> it gave me this as my desktop background today which is lovely http://www.flickr.com/photos/52821721@N00/3193043847
[10:00] <SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind a google play subscription service
[10:01] <bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
[10:05] <SuperMatt> hullo
[10:06] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[10:07] <BigRedS> ls
[10:08] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:08] <davmor2> BigRedS: you're not going to get a very good listing in irc honest
[10:09] <BigRedS> I've had some good ones in the past, but some have been, er, the sort of file listings I don't want made public
[10:09] <BigRedS> once it had exactly the file I was looking for, too!
[10:10] <mungbean> Desktop Downloads Videos Donkeys Dropbox
[10:11] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, that sort of thing
[10:12] <BigRedS> Anyone used webissues before? I need a really simple bugtracker with a UI that people will bother to use. Bugzilla's failed at this :(
[10:12] <mungbean> redmine
[10:13] <mungbean> lovely web ui and also handles email submissions/updates too
[10:13] <BigRedS> yeah, but it's in ruby and I really really really hate that
[10:13] <mungbean> doens't matter once its installed
[10:13] <BigRedS> for about a year 90% of my time seemed to be occupied by arguing with gem to make redmine work
[10:14] <mungbean> got mine running in no time and has been rock stable for 3 years
[10:14] <SuperMatt> yeah, took me a while to convince gem I had the right version of mysql installed blah blah blah
[10:14] <SuperMatt> ruby is remarkably picky
[10:15] <SuperMatt> or at least gems is
[10:15] <mgdm> yeah, I don't get on well with gems
[10:16] <BigRedS> mungbean: have you updated it in those three years? :)
[10:16] <mungbean> yes , although not for 1 year
[10:16] <mungbean> somebody else might have updated it this year tho
[10:17] <mungbean> i now have 3 desks in 3 different offices
[10:17] <BigRedS> well, at least that's not one desk in three different offices
[10:17] <mungbean> currently sitting at the warmest, quietest, sunniest one
[10:19] <BigRedS> I'm working from home today and, fortunately, the cat's in a huff with me
[10:19] <BigRedS> so I should get some work done
[10:28] <dwatkins> no need for PawSense, BigRedS?
[10:30] <MooDoo> chuffing parking ticket....raaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[10:37] <BigRedS> dwatkins: she's actually completely uninterested in the keyboard
[10:37] <BigRedS> tends to wedge herself on my lap between me and the desk, and slowly expand, pushing me away from the desk and leaving me with nothing better to do than give her attention
[10:37] <BigRedS> cunning
[10:38] <mungbean> hmm. thought i had added my id_rsa key to ssh-add but still asking for password - i have multiple keys
[10:38] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: I don't have much sympathy for people that complain about parking tickets, though I am aware there can be some circumstances where they're given out in error. care to share?
[10:38] <SuperMatt> actually, that's not true
[10:38] <mungbean> SuperMatt: igot one for knocking on my friends door
[10:39] <mungbean> although waiting 3 mins is allowed
[10:39] <SuperMatt> I do have sympathy for the poor sods that try to get to their car in time, but are held up for some reason and turn up a minute late with a sticker waiting for them
[10:39] <SuperMatt> surely waiting implies that you should be in the car?
[10:39] <mungbean> no
[10:40] <mungbean> you can be ona yellow line 3 mins and be away from car
[10:40] <mungbean> i was knocking on the door
[10:40] <SuperMatt> ok, I see
[10:40] <mungbean> came back and he gave me one "i've started it now"
[10:40] <mungbean> didn't realise you could drive off
[10:40] <SuperMatt> doh
[10:40] <mungbean> without acepting
[10:41] <mungbean> i was young, and only owned my car for 30 minutes
[10:41] <SuperMatt> I've been ticketed twice in my life
[10:41] <SuperMatt> once for parking on the street outside my house because I was too scared to reverse park in the drive way (I'd passed a couple of days before)
[10:41] <SuperMatt> and once when I outstayed my welcome by a minute
[10:42] <MooDoo> I was parked at work and got it as i hadn't displayed a parking permit
[10:42] <SuperMatt> both of which were might fault
[10:42] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: you'll be able to contest that one faily easily then
[10:42] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: motorbike, no place for permits
[10:43] <SuperMatt> ah of course
[10:43] <SuperMatt> you should almost certainly be able to contest it
[10:43] <MooDoo> not parked in a bay.
[10:43] <BigRedS> Yeah, I've contested those in the past
[10:43] <BigRedS> but they sometimes ask for a copy of the permit
[10:43] <BigRedS> so you can't say "I had it and did attach it but it fell off"
[10:45] <MooDoo> sigh another£60 i could without spending
[10:46] <popey> we got a photo ticket through the post a while back, while I was out at work
[10:46] <popey> wifey phoned to apologise and ask me not to be cross and that she'd pay it and sorry sorry sorry
[10:46] <popey> I said it was fine..
[10:46] <popey> then got home and looked at the picture..
[10:46] <popey> it was me
[10:46] <mungbean> lolz
[10:46] <mungbean> makes you sound like an ogre
[10:46] <MooDoo> lol
[10:46] <popey> does doesn't it
[10:47] <mungbean> don't beat me again
[10:47] <mungbean> i'll do the dishes for a year
[10:47] <mungbean> btw i'm being a bit lame with my ssh keys
[10:47] <popey> thats the only time I've ever been photographed
[10:47] <popey> i was going the wrong way in a one way bus lane
[10:47] <popey> \o/
[10:47] <mungbean> lol
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: I can disprove that you haven't been photographed on other occasions
[10:47] <Laney> what in the
[10:48] <mungbean> i've aded the key to ssh-add but still asks for password
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: pass_word_ or pass_phrase_?
[10:48] <davmor2> I've only had a couple of ticket, when I've dropped the Mother-in-law off and been in a disabled bay and forgotten to put her badge out
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, did you add your public key to remote:~/.ssh/authorized_keys?
[10:48] <mungbean> passphrase
[10:50] <MooDoo> what with my blender failing, the microwave failing, the hard drive in my laptop failing and now a parking ticket, i'm not having a good week lol
[10:50] <SuperMatt> :(
[10:51] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: i didn't have my pub key on the client
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: the server, you mean?
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: your pubkey AND privkey are in ~/.ssh/id_*{,.pub} after generating
[10:52] <mungbean> i'd generated on another machine
[10:52] <Laney> yay 1kg bag of tea
[10:52] <Laney> turns out that's quite a lot
[10:52] <mungbean> and only copied priv key to client
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: never copy privkeys to other machines if you can help it
[10:53] <mungbean> huh?
[10:53] <mungbean> they are both my machines
[10:53] <mungbean> laptop and desktop
[10:53] <mungbean> u saying i should generate new ones for each pc?
[10:55] <popey> i would
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can put lots of keys in authorized_keys on the server(s)
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> That means that if one privkey gets compromised/stolen, you can just remove that one and don't have to go around replacing keys everywhere
[10:56] <mungbean> as its a laptop i probably should, but its a pain to modify auth keys on the servers
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: vi .ssh/authorized_keys
[11:01] <popey> ssh-copy-id
[11:11] <mungbean> i wish there was an irc for scale modellers. cannot findone anywhere. i have so many questions that forums don't really handle well
[11:12] <popey> surprised there isnt a stackexchange for it
[11:12] <popey> http://stackexchange.com/sites
[11:15] <mungbean> i'll try to start one and drum up support
[11:16] <mungbean> unfortunately the main place to drump up support are on forums...
[11:16] <mungbean> the airbrush thread on airfixtributeforum is over 60 pages
[11:16] <mungbean> impossible to glean useful info
[11:16] <mungbean> it's like trawling xdadevelopers
[11:18] <diplo> Guys thoughts on this issue before I delve deeper
[11:19] <diplo> We have around 80 customers, a lot of them run 2-3 servers
[11:19] <diplo> We want to monitor certain services with Nagios, so we use check_by_ssh
[11:19] <diplo> Issue we've experienced is that we use different ports to connect directly to different boxes
[11:20] <popey> mungbean: this is why all forums suck
[11:20] <diplo> But... know hosts stores this via IPAddress it seems and so connecting to 2 different hosts comes up with a known hosts warning
[11:20] <mungbean> yes. i like stackexchange as i can use my launchpad openid :D
[11:27] <jacobw> What's the differnce between a StackExchange and a forum?
[11:28] <MooDoo> with a forum, it's just questions and answers with stack exchange the more a question is viewed then it puts popular posts at the top
[11:29] <MooDoo> http://askubuntu.com/
[11:29] <MooDoo> this is a stack exchange site.
[11:29] <mungbean> SE is more definitive
[11:29] <mungbean> forums are rambling and comments add noise
[11:29] <mungbean> everything has equal weight in a forum (bad)
[11:33] <popey> for some reason I can't fathom, the ubuntu forums are planning to re-activate having tutorials on the forums rather then having them collaboratively off-site
[11:34] <popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2132649
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[11:35] <Myrtti> forums.
[11:37] <MooDoo> and we all know how you feel about forums popey ;)
[11:37] <ali1234> the reason is quite clearly stated in the thread
[11:37] <ali1234> since the tutorials were converted to wikis, nobody uses them
[11:38] <ali1234> this doesn't really surprise me, i mean the ubuntu wiki is probably the only ubuntu site less useful than launchpad answers
[11:39] <ali1234> most pages in it seem to get moved more often than they get edited. i have no idea why
[11:40] <ali1234> it's not like there is an index or any kind of organizational hierarchy to it, so the constant moving of pages seem to only break external search engine links
[11:40] <Myrtti> I like the wikipages more than forums or answers or askubuntu combined
[11:41] <ali1234> let's suppose i am having a problem with my graphics card and i go to wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:41] <popey> you wouldnt
[11:41] <popey> you would go to google.com
[11:41] <ali1234> i know i wouldn't, because i know the wiki is useless
[11:41] <popey> exactly
[11:41] <ali1234> but lets suppose i didn't already know that
[11:42] <popey> you still wouldn't go to wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:42] <ali1234> there is nothing at all that even references help or support on the front page
[11:42] <popey> nobody does
[11:42] <popey> because thats not what its for
[11:42] <ali1234> ok, so i go to google and i put in "ubuntu graphics"
[11:42] <ali1234> the top hit is a link to the wiki... which is completely irrelevant
[11:43] <popey> do people search for that phrase?
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> ubuntu nvidia, maybe
[11:43] <ali1234> what would you suggest that i try to search for?
[11:43] <popey> ubuntu driver problem maybe
[11:43] <popey> dunno
[11:44] <popey> ubuntu video driver
[11:44] <ali1234> wiki doesn't even appear on the first page for "ubuntu nvidia"
[11:44] <popey> why should it?
[11:44] <ali1234> same
[11:44] <ali1234> because all the helpful content from the forums got moved there
[11:44] <ali1234> and now nobody can find it
[11:45] <popey> I'm not keen on it being on the wiki
[11:45] <popey> I'd rather it was on AU
[11:45] <popey> pretty sure I said so back when this was debated
[11:45] <ali1234> AU isn't a forum
[11:45] <popey> i didnt say it was
[11:45] <ali1234> neither is the wiki
[11:46] <ali1234> AU is a place to ask questions, not write tutorials
[11:46] <popey> "how do i fix my broken video driver on 12.10"
[11:46] <popey> is a question
[11:47] <davmor2> ali1234: plus au is way easier to find stuff on
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> When I google for problems I get the Arch wiki
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> usually
[11:48] <popey> the big problem I have with the forum is that tutorials whither and die, and the OP wanders off and they never get corrected
[11:48] <popey> same can happen with the wiki of course
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> before the crash, you'd get the Gentoo wiki
[11:48] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: add Ubuntu rather than linux :)
[11:48] <popey> but at least other people can edit the wiki or delete the page
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I can translate :)
[11:49] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: do Ubuntu fix x rather than Linux fix x and you get more specific Ubuntu info :)
[11:50] <ali1234> i agree that AU would be better for most of this stuff (except the stuff that would definitely get closed as being too specific) but i also think that even the forums would be better than the wiki
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: yes but the problems I have tend to be too hard for most tutorials anyway :)
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: "what was the 'ip' command for setting the default route again?"
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> try googling anything for the 'ip' command, actually
[11:51] <ali1234> "man ip" top hit
[11:51] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu setting a default route?
[11:52] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/1245/add-default-route-on-boot too localized!
[11:53] <ali1234> apparently setting a route is "an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet"
[11:54] <popey> ali1234: I agree
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: nah, I want to avoid the 'route' and 'ifconfig' tools because they're supposed to be deprecated :)
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: also, I don't always use Ubuntu, sometimes I use Debian or OpenWRT :)
[11:55] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: shame on you ;)
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: openwrt = the bobm
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I have an OpenWRT router on the fibre connection at home :)
[11:56] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: openwrt did work fully on my router, however dd-wrt did so that is what I am using
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I bought mine specifically because OpenWRT works on it :)
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> ♥TP-Link
[11:57] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I have TP-link
[11:58] <MooDoo> ow do davmor2
[11:58] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: it does rock
[11:58]  * popey hugs his WNDR3700
[11:58] <davmor2> MooDoo: ay up mucka
[12:00]  * MartijnVdS has a TP-Link WDR-4300
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> popey: that's netgear, right?
[12:01] <davmor2> MartijnVdS:  TP-Link TL-WR841ND v7  it was the cheapest router I could get :)
[12:02] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think open wrt works on it now but may or may not display a gui iirc
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: ah, its gui is a bit big.. I didn't bother with it :)
[12:04] <popey> yes
[12:05] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: ah you see I could learn all the tinkering but I just needed a better version of software that was on it basically rebooting once a week was getting tedious :)
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I can imagine :)
[12:06] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: you could guarantee it would happen during a meeting too :)
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> heh, of course!
[12:08]  * bigcalm grumbles at Halfords - ordered DAB unit on Thursday afternoon with the suggestion that it could be fitted on Monday or Tuesday. I had to phone to find out that it hadn't been delivered to them yet. Next fitting appointment I can attend isn't until Monday next week. </grumble>
[12:09] <SuperMatt> -tt-
[12:09] <davmor2> the dd-wrt has only locked up on me once and that was after virgin's network had been down for an age and their hub had issues so I had to reboot that
[12:09] <bigcalm> open-wrt > dd-wrt :)
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's opener, or it FEELS opener at least :)
[12:14] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it allows me to share my phone's 3g connection via the router's USB port. dd-wrt can't (or couldn't) do that
[12:15]  * MartijnVdS recompiles OpenWRT manually
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> I've played with some meshing software on TP-Link 703n boxes as well
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> (tiny 5x5cm APs with an USB port, an ethernet port, and wifi)
[12:19] <bigcalm> zigbee?
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> no, 802.11s
[12:23] <josh__> hey guys, moving from a mac to an ubuntu machine. all my config that was in bash_profile
[12:23] <josh__> can that stay there
[12:23] <josh__> ?
[12:23] <josh__> it doesnt seem to be loaded by default every time I start a new shell
[12:24] <josh__> I have to . ~/.bash_profile
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> josh__: ~/.bash_profile you mean?
[12:24] <josh__> aye
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> ls -l ~/.bash_profile ?
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> what are its permissions?
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> is there a .profile? maybe that goes first (read 'man bash' about which config files go first)
[12:24] <josh__> -rw-rw-r--
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> .bash_profile is read once on login, .bashrc is read for every terminal opened
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> my .bash_profile is one line: . ~/.bashrc
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> and everything of note is in ~/.bashrc
[12:25] <josh__> my ~/.profile points to .bashrc not bash_profile
[12:25] <josh__> guess thats why...?
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> .profile is also only read on login
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> so you put all the settings in .bashrc instead
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> and stay away from the .profile ones :)
[13:31] <mungbean> meh, still not received my little cable in the post i need to ddwrt my wifi AP
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: what kind of cable is that?
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: USB/Serial?
[13:35] <mungbean> 	
[13:35] <mungbean> USB 2.0 to UART TTL 6PIN Connector Module Serial Converter
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> so.. yes :)
[13:35] <mungbean> yep
[13:35] <mungbean> :D
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> I had one of those from my Arduino hacking days
[13:36] <mungbean> have an old dlink AP that dserves dddwrting
[13:36] <mgdm> I have a D-Link DSL router that forgot how to firmware
[13:36] <mgdm> I keep meaning to fix it, not got around to it yet
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/RoundTuit.jpg
[13:37] <mgdm> hehe
[13:42] <Laney> if I go to the bank, can they print me a cheque from my account?
[13:42] <Laney> I have no cheque book atm
[13:42] <Darael> Not actually sure they can.  They can order a new chequebook, though.
[13:43] <Laney> yeah I already have
[13:43] <popey> yes, they can
[13:43] <popey> i have had the bank issue cheques for me before
[13:43] <mungbean> dont they charge though?
[13:43] <Myrtti> cheques... *shakes head*
[13:44] <Laney> they want one to open a new isa
[13:47] <Darael> If it's the same bank, they shouldn't even need to print a cheque.  Set it up in-branch and they should be able to just do any necessary transfer.  Of course, if the ISA is with a different bank that's another story.
[13:48] <Laney> yeah that would be too easy
[13:48] <Laney> (and an utterly shit rate)
[13:49] <Laney> anyway, ta, biking to town now
[13:49] <Laney> strangely late lunch
[13:53] <ali1234> i opened a new isa at barclays entirely through the website
[13:53] <ali1234> didn't even have to wait for approval
[13:54] <ali1234> also did the same at aldermore
[14:37] <Laney> no cheque :(
[14:38] <MooDoo> booo how come?
[14:39] <Laney> they just don't do it any more
[14:40] <Laney> never mind, coventry allowed me to open the isa with a £0 balance
[14:40] <mungbean> got 3 ubuntu stickers - suggestions on where to randomly stick them around the office?
[14:40] <mungbean> toilet seat
[14:40] <popey> on the underside of someone's mug
[14:40] <popey> so they dont see it but you do when they drink
[14:41] <popey> someone did that to me with a windows sticker
[14:41] <popey> i didnt notice for a month or so
[14:43] <mungbean> you don't wash up your mug?
[14:43] <ali1234> men do not wash the bottom of things
[14:44] <popey> [FACT]
[14:44] <ali1234> *real men
[14:44] <popey> i wash the bit the liquid goes in, and my mouth touches
[14:44] <mungbean> these are the ones with the old logo and "linux for human beings" slogan on
[14:44] <popey> generally, at work
[14:44] <mungbean> long,thin
[15:27] <kvarley> "ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 : Depends: libsane:i386 but it is not going to be installed" any ideas? apt is completely useless
[15:28] <kvarley> I just want apt to shut up and work, need to install lamp for work
[15:28] <kvarley> I can't remove ia32 libs
[15:30] <popey> what are you trying to do?
[15:30] <kvarley> Ah, it was a broken package
[15:30] <kvarley> Synaptic to the rescue
[15:31] <kvarley> Used synaptic to remove the broken package and all is well, thanks anyway popey :)
[15:38] <mungbean> what kernel does 12.04.2 come with please?
[15:39] <mungbean> a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack suggests it comes with a newer kernel than a 12.04.1 upgraded to .2
[15:41] <neuro> 15:44 <popey> i wash the bit the liquid goes in, and my mouth touches
[15:41] <neuro> why does this make me think of "it puts the lotion on its skin"
[15:41] <popey> hah
[15:41]  * neuro started a new job today
[15:42] <popey> \o/
[15:42] <MooDoo> neuro: yay
[15:42] <diplo> And he's already on IRC :D
[15:42] <neuro> and one of the things i get to do is boost a load of win and centos aws ec2 instances and replace them with ubuntu
[15:42] <neuro> diplo: working from home :D
[15:43] <imexil> Hi, it's been a long time. I was wondering if any of you have tried cloning a SVN repo using `git svn clone URL` in 13.04. Looks it's bottom up :(
[15:43] <diplo> :)
[15:43] <MooDoo> congrats neuro :)
[15:43] <neuro> cheers!
[15:43] <neuro> i'm thinking some juju should get involved as well
[15:47] <davmor2> bigcalm: you about
[15:47] <diplo> neuro: What did you do before ?
[15:48] <MooDoo> diplo: lug radio ;)
[15:48] <neuro> same thing i've always done (at least for the last 9 years), linux sysadmin
[15:48] <neuro> and a mixture of sysadmin and web-dev for the 8 yrs before that
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> they had the web before that?!
[15:49] <MooDoo> jono et all should do a 5 year anniversary episode of lug radio :D
[15:49] <diplo> I want to get back to full time sysadmin, as soon as I'm better health wise it's my top priority, not sure people would employ me atm :)
[15:50] <neuro> MartijnVdS: i was working for a webdev company in 1996 :)
[15:50] <neuro> was making web pages for 3 years before that
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> neuro: with "Work in progress" gifs?
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> neuro: and <marquee>?
[15:50] <neuro> i'm ashamed to admit, i occasionally used an "under construction" gif
[15:50] <neuro> and very very occasionally, marquee
[15:50] <mgdm> http://divshot.github.com/geo-bootstrap
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> no <blink> though, right?
[15:51] <mgdm> WARNING: sunglasses required
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> "Works best in ANY browser" buttons?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> "Proudly created in vi"?
[15:51] <neuro> yes, and yes once or twice
[15:51] <SuperMatt> you can mimic blink quite easily
[15:52] <neuro> http://neuro.me.uk/projects/subclub.co.uk/working/ <- a site I built in 1996, danger contains frames and may be a bit broken in modern browsers (even though i've twiddled the frameset stuff); click on the morphing gif to enter
[15:53] <diplo> argh!! :)
[15:53] <diplo> :P
[15:53] <neuro> it was awesome at the time
[15:53] <neuro> no way would i build a site looking like that now though
[15:54] <diplo> I found a load of my old sites a few weeks ago, keep debating putting them up
[15:54] <diplo> Not sure how well they'll work though
[15:54] <neuro> and to be fair, the actual design was by one of the sub club guys, i basically just htmlised the thing from their (on-paper) designs
[15:54] <diplo> worksite flashing around is umm nice heheh
[15:59] <MooDoo> frames wow :)
[15:59] <neuro> diplo: that's like 20 layers in photoshop exported out as a gif :)
[15:59] <neuro> MooDoo: yeah, i know :P
[16:00] <dwatkins> so does everyone use <div> tags now instead of frames?
[16:00] <dwatkins> I should probably get with the program...
[16:00] <neuro> those were the days when i'd just started using apache, and we had to seriously think about browsers that couldn't talk HTTP/1.1 and see the vhosts :P
[16:01] <neuro> i stopped using frames when i figured out how to do SSIs
[16:01] <dwatkins> simpler times...
[16:01] <neuro> i know
[16:01] <neuro> when you could host people's websites on a 486 running slackware and get away with it ...
[16:02] <neuro> and it really was a dark art back then
[16:02] <neuro> none of this "oh i'll just sign up with godaddy/dreamhost/whoever and have a website running in 5 minutes"
[16:03] <neuro> or "oh, i'll just spin up an ec2 instance and have a server running in 60 seconds"
[16:03] <diplo> heh, right guys.. home time. Catch you all later :)
[16:10]  * dwatkins spits at the mention of godaddy
[16:11] <MooDoo> not a fan ?
[16:12] <SuperMatt> who is?
[16:12] <Myrtti> +1
[16:12] <MooDoo> i've used them in the past, never had problems with them.....
[16:12] <SuperMatt> their advertising is so overtly sexist it is obscene
[16:12] <Azelphur> MooDoo: besides the whole teaming up to make laws that would destroy the internet
[16:12] <Azelphur> and that ^ :P
[16:13] <Myrtti> I'd rather chew my arm off than give them business, they might thing their advertising in USA is something that I'd approve
[16:13] <SuperMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Daddy#Controversies < this isn't a short list at all
[16:13] <MooDoo> oh fair enough lol
[16:14] <dwatkins> yeah, the fact the guy has an elephant's foot as an umbrella stand is enough to make me never want to use their services, let alone how utterly hideous the website is.
[16:17] <MooDoo> noted
[16:17] <dwatkins> I should probably find out about using sc2
[16:17] <dwatkins> ec2 even
[16:18] <dwatkins> is there a free offering you can just use for testing, neuro?
[16:18] <ali1234> there is
[16:18] <neuro> yeah, new customers can use the "t1.micro" sized instance to mess around with
[16:18] <neuro> it's free for a year iirc
[16:18] <ali1234> but it is horrifically limited
[16:18]  * MartijnVdS is trying Bytemark's new "big v" stuff
[16:18] <neuro> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
[16:19] <SuperMatt> I'm using a small instance these days
[16:19] <ali1234> also you have to give them your credit card and they will auto bill you after the year
[16:19] <SuperMatt> it's good for running my own email server, running my own owncloud server, running my ttrss server, etc
[16:19] <SuperMatt> a single mircoinstance isn't quite up to snuff for all that
[16:21] <SuperMatt> http://uk.godaddy.com/ <- if you flick through the banner at the top, there isn't a single guy on there
[16:21] <SuperMatt> ignore what's below the fold, we all know that's not important
[16:21] <MooDoo> isnt that just marketing though?
[16:22] <SuperMatt> yes, but I would expect some kind of representation for a company which is supposed to be for everyone
[16:22] <MooDoo> you're more likely to sign up for something if there is a picture of a lady or if the email address is sue@ or becky@
[16:22] <SuperMatt> their advertising as always been extremely sexist
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> oops @ MusicBrainz
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> Caught exception in MusicBrainz::Server::Controller::ReleaseEditor::Add->add "DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR:  could not access file "/usr/local/postgres-9.0.3/lib/pending.so": No such file or directory at lib/Sql.pm line 414,  line 15.
[16:22] <MooDoo> I can't see how thats sexist really or I might be missing something
[16:22] <dwatkins> thanks neuro
[16:23] <neuro> np
[16:23] <ali1234> it's true though, they are famous for their sexist advertising
[16:23] <SuperMatt> I'm not saying that specifically is sexist, but other adverts of their own have been. put in to context, and those pictures can be pretty damning
[16:23] <popey> http://isouyashipping.com/
[16:24] <ali1234> http://isnamecoinworking.bit/
[16:24] <ali1234> oops
[16:24] <ali1234> http://isnamecoinworkingornot.bit/
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently not
[16:25] <SuperMatt> what's a namecoin?
[16:25]  * ali1234 registers the shorter version too
[16:29] <ali1234> a distributed DNS system
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I know, but if it doesn't hook into normal DNS at some point it's a bit pointless, isn't it?
[16:30] <ali1234> it does
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> doesn't resolve for me..
[16:31] <ali1234> then you're using the wrong nameserver
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'm using my isp's resolver
[16:31] <ali1234> lol
[16:31] <ali1234> who does that in 2013?
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> everyone?
[16:32] <ali1234> my ISP's DNS server forces half my connections through their censorship proxy
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Not allowed in .nl :)
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: also, I _work_ for my ISP, this makes me trust the admins more ;)
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> I think they're trying to get it to do DNSSEC validation without breaking it too much for domains with broken sigs or something
[17:01] <Darael> MartijnVdS: That's easy.  Complain loudly at domains with broken sigs until they fix it :-þ
[18:34] <sebsebseb> hi
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> Darael: that's their general strategy, yes
[20:50] <mungbean> whats the best way to run 3.5 kernel in precise?
[20:50] <mungbean> most supported
[21:06] <mungbean>  06MAR and 04APR (13 minutes, 80 texts, 121 MB UK mobile internet) we'd recommend that the best plan for April could be the £5 Hokey Cokey.
[21:06] <mungbean> lol. not the biggest phone user
[23:07]  * AlanBell just made a mysql query that used to take 5614 seconds a bit quicker. Now completes in 12 seconds.
[23:08]  * Darael raises an eyebrow