[00:14] <SonikkuAmerica> Kinda weird since i use English <<< instead of English? XD
[00:14] <SonikkuAmerica> The way it word-wraps...
[00:15] <DarkEra> oh lol... yeah i know
[00:15] <DarkEra> it's getting late here and i'm tired, so my brain doesn't work with me right now
[00:15] <DarkEra> :D
[00:27] <DarkEra> right, time to get some sleep. Chat you all laters
[08:18] <cfhowlett> 12.04.2 held back packages ... jackd2, jackd2 firewire, libjack-jackd2-0:i386 ... what the hey?
[09:09] <fisher> Hello folks. Can someone help me figure out why JACk doesn't like my Asus Xonar sound card? My mic doesn't work. I have audio OUTPUT just fine but I get NOTHING for INPUT.
[09:42] <contrapunctus> fisher: Might want to try #opensourcemusicians as well
[09:42] <contrapunctus> *try asking in
[13:04] <made_> hi
[13:04] <smartboyhw> Hello made_
[13:04]  * smartboyhw thought it was madeinkobaia (LOL)
[13:04] <cfhowlett> smartboyhw, greetings
[13:05] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, hey:)
[13:05] <cfhowlett> so query, what the HECK is a kylin?
[13:05] <made_> i got some trouble to install VGA driver
[13:05] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, ah interesting question.
[13:05] <cfhowlett> one of my students is actually named kylin
[13:05] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, :O
[13:05] <made_> i just following this instruction : http://askubuntu.com/questions/277364/amd-driver-update-one-from-amd-com
[13:05]  * smartboyhw isn't sure if it is offtopic here to discuss 
[13:06] <cfhowlett> yes OT it is.
[13:06] <smartboyhw> made_, uh huh
[13:06] <cfhowlett> made_, more info would help
[13:06] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, private message? or #ubuntukylin-devel
[13:06] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, I would recommend you to go to #ubuntukylin-devel for that.
[13:06] <cfhowlett> OK
[13:06] <made_> ok i got it
[13:07] <made_> thank's
[13:07] <smartboyhw> made_, :O
[14:00] <lucal> hi to everibody from Luca
[14:04] <lucal> I just installed  yesterday ubuntustudio 12.04 in my linuxbox, but the kernel 3.2.o-40 doesan't work .Perhaps someone can help me? Thanks
[14:04] <smartboyhw> lucal, why?
[14:04] <smartboyhw> zequence, ^
[14:06] <lucal> i don't know  why but the previous version is working
[14:07] <smartboyhw> lucal, whoa....
[14:08] <lucal> sorry smartboy what means whoa ?
[14:09] <smartboyhw> lucal, I mean that's really weird.
[14:10] <lucal> Yes thanks weird but did it also with kubuntu 1122.04 i installed 1 month ago
[14:11] <smartboyhw> lucal, Kubuntu what?
[14:11]  * smartboyhw has never heard of an 1122.04 version of Kubuntu:O
[14:11] <lucal> sorry kubuntu 12.04
[14:11] <smartboyhw> lucal, ah phew.
[14:11] <DarkEra> lol
[14:12] <DarkEra> did you have the same problem with kubuntu lucal?
[14:12]  * smartboyhw has never encountered such a problem.
[14:13] <smartboyhw> lucal, zequence is the one who is maintaining the -lowlatency stable kernels:)
[14:13] <lucal> o with kubuntu but the kertnel ver. 3.2.0-39 and 3.2.0-40
[14:15] <lucal> ok thanks i'll try and ask it to zequence , if is possible !
[18:26] <fowls-legs> Hello this is my first time using an IRC. I am looking for help in installing Ubuntu Studio 13.04. Has anyone here done so successfully?
[18:27] <AdranBwokeIt> sure
[18:28] <fowls-legs> Great! The daily or another version?
[18:30] <SunStar> i dont know. just grabbed an ISO and installed it a few weeks ago
[18:31] <fowls-legs> Okay. I have not been able to install the beta 2 version or the daily (or rather yesterday's daily) and was hoping I might be able to find someone who could help me.
[18:32] <fowls-legs> Did you install from DVD or USB?
[18:32] <SunStar> USB
[18:32] <SunStar> created with unetbootin
[18:34] <fowls-legs> I did the same. I also tried w/ Ubuntu's Startup Disk Creator.
[18:35] <zequence> fowls-legs: At which point of the installation does it break for you?
[18:35] <fowls-legs> What type of GPU do you have?
[18:36] <SunStar> mobility Radeon HD 4200
[18:36] <fowls-legs> @zequence reading here will be easier: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/226492
[18:38] <zequence> fowls-legs: Looks like it might be a nouveau driver bug then
[18:39] <fowls-legs> I thought so too
[18:40] <fowls-legs> Any ideas of what to do about it?
[18:40] <zequence> fowls-legs: You can install from the netinstall ISO
[18:40] <fowls-legs> Or suggestions of who might be able to help me?
[18:40] <zequence> But, you'll need to add yourself to audio group, and install linux-lowlatency manually, if you're into audio
[18:41] <SunStar> i still have beta1 ISO
[18:41] <SunStar> but that prolly uses the same driver
[18:41] <zequence> fowls-legs: which arch?
[18:42] <zequence> 32bit archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[18:42] <zequence> 64bit http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[18:43] <fowls-legs> I dabble in Overtone audio environment, but don't ever record. I mostly do music informatics programming in R.
[18:43] <fowls-legs> Am I correct in believing I won't need the lowlatency kernels?
[18:43] <zequence> fowls-legs: You only need low latency, if you are doing something live through the computer
[18:44] <zequence> Like, playing a soft synth, or monitoring your recording
[18:44] <zequence> It's more or less a clone of -generic, with a couple of diffing configs to make it more responsive
[18:44] <zequence> Less throughput, which is mostly important for servers
[18:45] <zequence> And, it might eat battery more, but that's just a theory so far, AFAIK
[18:46] <SunStar> well i can say i have less than half my Windows battery life when using studio.
[18:47] <fowls-legs> Okay I feel like it is unnecessary. I am more into Studio for xfce rather than lowlatency.
[18:48] <zequence> SunStar: Did you try with -generic?
[18:48] <SunStar> yeah -generic gives me a little bit better battery life, but windows is still far better
[18:49] <zequence> Ubuntu probably needs to optimize more
[18:49] <fowls-legs> Have you tried pm-utils, jupiter, powertop?
[18:49] <SunStar> pm-utils
[18:49] <fowls-legs> Anyway I am down with generic.
[18:49] <zequence> SunStar: Sure you are doing the same things on both kernels? I'm thinking probably some apps use a lot more CPU, like jack
[18:50] <fowls-legs> Yeah I had a hard time finding the right scripts w/ pm-utils
[18:50] <fowls-legs> So how should I go about installing a new kernel?
[18:51] <zequence> fowls-legs: sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency
[18:51] <fowls-legs> I currently have a partially installed Studio beta 2 on my HD
[18:52] <fowls-legs> E: Write error - write (28: No space left on device)
[18:52] <fowls-legs> E: Can't mmap an empty file
[18:52] <fowls-legs> E: Failed to truncate file - ftruncate (9: Bad file descriptor)
[18:52] <fowls-legs> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
[18:53] <fowls-legs> I think it is trying to install it on the USB drive which I'm currenlty using to run 13.04 Studio
[18:54] <fowls-legs> Weird that  the "Try Ubuntu" feature works with my graphics card/ nouveau, but won't on install.
[18:54] <zequence> fowls-legs: Graphic card bugs can be really weird
[18:55] <fowls-legs> Yeah especially w/ Optimus.
[18:56] <zequence> I had one with nvidia proprietary drivers, that had to do with gpg signatures on the evolution mail client. One would think that this sort of thing should be elementary. Everytime I opened a gpg signed mail, my computer crashed instantly
[18:56] <zequence> I learned to be very careful with which mail I opened. And finally started using another mail client
[18:56] <zequence> I reported the bug, as I naturally thought it had something to do with Evolution
[18:56] <zequence> But, no
[18:58] <fowls-legs> contrapunctus: nice name, my favorite j.s. work
[19:00] <fowls-legs> Hmmm
[19:01] <fowls-legs> Think I should try to make another Unetbootin of the daily on another comp?
[19:01] <SunStar> id try xubuntu 13 to see if that works
[19:02] <fowls-legs> I had that thought
[19:02] <DarkEra> did you try using another usb stick fowls-legs ?
[19:02] <fowls-legs> No
[19:02] <fowls-legs> but I did erase and reformat to fat32 w/ gparted
[19:02] <fowls-legs> There are a lot of features built into studio that i really like
[19:03] <fowls-legs> I am not super familiar with xubuntu
[19:04] <DarkEra> could be the one you have is in bad shape, they won't last forever just like a hard drive
[19:05] <fowls-legs> From experience w/ standard ubuntu I have had a very hard time getting jack to work with leiningen and overtone
[19:06] <fowls-legs> hmm i could try another
[19:06] <fowls-legs> do you think i should try the daily
[19:10] <fowls-legs> at the computer diagnostic center st my school they have usbs and a pc w/ 12.xx
[19:10] <fowls-legs> I'm thinking I should go with Ubuntu's Startup Disk Creator instead of UNetbotin as well
[19:11] <fowls-legs> Sounds reasonable to me what do y'all think?
[19:11] <fowls-legs> Will be clearing my HD w/ gparted before install as well
[19:13] <DarkEra> i use the dd command or indeed the SDC
[19:15] <fowls-legs> Sorry I am not familiar the dd command
[19:15] <DarkEra> you could try the Beta 2 or the Daily one, that's up to you. just make sure you verify the md5checksum
[19:16] <DarkEra> then play it safe and use SDC
[19:55] <fisher> Anyone know why in Audacity, using JACK, my ANALOG ports on my Asus Xonar DG sound card are available to use for Mic/Input? All i see is multichannel and digital
[19:55] <fisher> are not*
[19:57] <zequence> fisher: Make all connections in qjackctl, not in Audacity
[19:57] <zequence> fisher: Audacity will only show its ports when you start playing it
[19:57] <zequence> fisher: Audacity sux a bit what jack is concerned
[19:57] <zequence> fisher: I would use Audacity with pulseaudio instead
[19:58] <zequence> fisher: QjackCtl -> Connect
[19:58] <zequence> Under the "Audio" Tab
[19:58] <zequence> Your card will most likely be named system
[19:59] <holstein> pavucontrol with pulse with audacity would be what i would do as well.. if i needed more (anything using JACK, for example) i would need/want more than audacity
[19:59] <zequence> fisher: If you're doing multitrack recording, you might find that Ardour or Qtractor are much better tools. Audacity is more of a audio wave file editor, and not really as usable for tracking
[20:01] <fisher> like this? www.fishermaskshow.com/SS1.png
[20:02] <fisher> oops.. http://www.fishermackshow.com/SS1.png
[20:03] <holstein> fisher: expand all and take another one if you like
[20:03] <zequence> fisher: What you have there is jack running. the audio card is called "system". Pulseaudio is connected as a client, and that means you are able to use jack as the pulseaudio input and output
[20:04] <holstein> fisher: i would just use pulse audio with audacity.. which means you can stop jack.. jack is overkill for using audacity to capture audio from your internal sound card mic
[20:04] <zequence> fisher: I'd recommend you to start hydrogen, the drum machine/sequencer to get a feeling for how to use jack
[20:04] <holstein> or, just dont use jack if you dont need it.. and it seems you dont
[20:04] <fisher> ok
[20:04] <fisher> oops.. http://www.fishermackshow.com/SS2.png
[20:05] <zequence> holstein: I'd say, if he's doing multitracking, what he doesn't need is audacity
[20:05] <fisher> Isn't jack better for real-time
[20:05] <holstein> fisher: no
[20:05] <holstein> fisher: plus, you dont need realtim
[20:05] <holstein> realtime*
[20:05] <holstein> fisher: unless you do.. and if you do, again, audacity is not what you need
[20:05] <zequence> holstein: As soon as he wants to play with a synth, he does
[20:05] <fisher> what about for live streaming of audio and video
[20:06] <zequence> I agree. Audacity is only good for audio editing. Not recording. Not music making
[20:06] <holstein> fisher: JACK wont help you stream your audio video any better/faster
[20:06] <holstein> fisher: latency is timing... and anything you could tweak on your end would most likely be negated by normal network latency
[20:06] <fisher> well hell.. I was under the impression that JACK was the end all be all for real time which is best for live broadcasts
[20:07] <holstein> fisher: you dont need low latency for live broadcasts
[20:07] <holstein> fisher: who cares if its 80 ms late.. or even 10 seconds?
[20:07] <fisher> the to hell with jack then...lol I'm fed up with it. I just want my sound card to work properly
[20:07] <holstein> fisher: you dont need audacity for network broadcasting
[20:08] <holstein> fisher: i would start by clearly defining what all it is you want to do, and a volunteer can help you find the proper tools
[20:08] <fisher> i was using audacity to record for non-live listening
[20:08] <holstein> lol.. what is "non-live listening"?
[20:09] <fisher> listening to recorded shows
[20:09] <holstein> fisher: i would suggest this. *forget* the buzz word "low-latency"
[20:09] <fisher> ok heres the break down.. gimme a sec to type
[20:09] <holstein> fisher: what are you trying to do?
[20:10] <holstein> i can listen to a recorded show on anything... vlc... whatever player comes with whatever operating system.. .you dont need jac or audacity to play an audio file
[20:11] <fisher> A friend and my self have started a podcast talk radio show of sorts. Our plan is to have pre-recorded shows available for download and also live streaming of audio(and video) while we record. The live streaming can come a little later.
[20:11] <fisher> and
[20:11] <fisher> Our setup is like this:
[20:11] <holstein> i would start with how you plan on distributing... soundcloud or whatever.. and go from there
[20:12] <holstein> nothing about ubuntu or ubuntustudio will help faciliate users to download anything from you.. unless you want to set up a server locally
[20:12] <holstein> there are some nice easy ways to record and automatically have what you made upload to youtube... i use a google hangout for that occasionally
[20:12] <fisher> I have two mics connected to a 5 channel behringer xenyx 502 mixer. the mixer is conencted to the sound card in my pc. Both mics are, for now, being fed as a single STEREO track to our recording application, namely audacity until this point.
[20:13] <holstein> also, there are services that upload to soundcloud
[20:13] <fisher> didstrobution and publishing are figured out. We just cant get the system to record the show when we try to sit down and record
[20:14] <holstein> i would just use pulse and mix those right into a google hangout..
[20:14] <holstein> use audacity if you want...
[20:14] <holstein> id just save a step
[20:15] <fisher> right. at this point we are not as concerned about live broadcast. It is a nice-to-have that we will work on a little later. Right now we are focused on geting the shows recorded and made available as a podcast download
[20:15] <holstein> fisher: record an audio file and put it up then
[20:15] <fisher> if only it were so easy for me..lol
[20:16] <fisher> Yiou see I can't get my system to record through my sound card.
[20:16] <holstein> fisher: what would i do? premix right into a stereo file or mono file in audacity.. export.. upload
[20:16] <fisher> thats what we want to do as well.. If we could get it to record
[20:16] <holstein> fisher: you havent learned how to route thing properly.. OR, you are going into the wron jack of the hardware
[20:17] <holstein> fisher: what would i do? get a USB interface. even something cheap like a http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UCA222.aspx
[20:17] <holstein> i see these for $30 US
[20:17] <fisher> I have to assume I am in the correct jack because on the hardware it is labels Line In and in PulseAudio settings it says Line In under my sound card
[20:17] <fisher> Yet there is no recording.
[20:18] <holstein> fisher: assume nothing
[20:18] <holstein> fisher: try *all* jacks
[20:18] <fisher> holy chimichanga. LOL
[20:19] <fisher> How do i prevent JACK server from starting at all when my system boots?
[20:19] <fisher> I feel that the issue lies in the JACK server because there was a short time when we were able to record.
[20:19] <fisher> and we were not using JACK then
[20:20] <zequence> fisher: jack doesn't start until you start it manually
[20:21] <fisher> mine does start automatically The only time it DOEST is when it is in conflict with PA and so then it throws errors when I run qjackctl
[20:21] <fisher> because
[20:21] <fisher> when qjackctl starts it automaticaly tries to start the jack server
[20:22] <fisher> and then errors
[20:26] <pudgypaw> [Quick Report] Just reporting that I briefly tried Ubuntu Studio 12.10 and 13.04 from my 12.04 LTS. It was great getting native windows snap on the desktop, but I lost the functionality of the Steam Client (Some driver library conflict, I use ATI). I eventually went back to 12.04LTS. In my opinion testing should be natively done, ergo why I didn't do it in virtualbox like before.
[20:28] <holstein> pudgypaw: what do you mean, "from my 12.04lts?"
[20:28] <holstein> !testing
[20:29] <pudgypaw> holstein: From my normal Ubuntu Studio 12.04.2 LTS I use everyday.
[20:29] <holstein> pudgypaw: sure... but what do you mean "from" it?
[20:29] <holstein> you mean, you put a live CD in that machine? or in vm?
[20:30] <pudgypaw> holstein: no, I upgraded it dynamically from the update manager
[20:30] <holstein> i see..
[20:30] <pudgypaw> I used to test new ones on VM so i don't compromise my existing data
[20:30] <holstein> check these out if you want to help us and the other teams test pudgypaw  :)
[20:31] <pudgypaw> well this leads to my question
[20:31] <holstein> pudgypaw: steam is not "ours", so it will be up to steam to support it.. and they will only support the lts version officially AFAIK
[20:31] <pudgypaw> I suspect testing builds on a VM isn't as good as native test, to directly test compatibility with your own hardware, is that correct?
[20:32] <holstein> pudgypaw: depends
[20:32] <holstein> pudgypaw: if you want to test how the installations are in VM, then, testing in VM would be ideal
[20:32] <holstein> pudgypaw: testing both can be helpful
[20:32] <pudgypaw> vm virtualizes hardware presence.. the only one i know that reveals the true hardware is VMWare
[20:32] <pudgypaw> ah ic
[20:32] <holstein> making your tests count, if in VM or on metal would be *ideal*
[20:32] <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds
[20:33] <pudgypaw> thanks
[20:33] <holstein> for example ^^ ...when the iso's come out at a certain milestone we *must* have a certain # of tests completed
[20:33] <holstein> we, meaning ubuntustudio.. xubuntu... the other official spins as well
[20:33] <pudgypaw> is that determined by an installation and say 5 bootups without incident?
[20:34] <holstein> so, if we were to miss those testing milestones, we do not get an iso.. meaning.. we would not have an ubuntustudio anymore
[20:34] <pudgypaw> (btw I understand steam's position, it's indeed impractical to target every 6mo build compatibility)
[20:34] <holstein> also, just having different hardware represented... virtual or otherwiser is helpful
[20:34] <holstein> pudgypaw: the test cases are documented
[20:39] <pudgypaw> holstein: First time I'm in that http area (link u sent). After logging in I see various data. Is that from data I passively sent while using builds and hitting bugs I chose to hit the "report" button on?
[20:40] <holstein> pudgypaw: if you are logged in, it could be
[20:40] <holstein> pudgypaw: id have to see what you are seeing to say for certain
[20:44] <pudgypaw> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9WcykcknTpmdl83MWU4NmVjM0E/edit?usp=sharing
[20:44] <fisher> is there a conf files I can edit to prevent JACK from starting?
[20:45] <fisher> If I don't need it then I don't want it starting up because it is causing conflicts and hindering my ability to record
[20:45] <pudgypaw> holstein: that's the link to what I see in there
[20:46] <holstein> fisher: just dont start it.. if you start somethig that requires jack, it can try and start it, such as ardour.. but just dont open what you dont need
[20:47] <holstein> pudgypaw: what is the question?
[20:47] <fisher> alrighty
[20:48] <holstein> fisher: you can always remove jack.. or just install/use xubuntu
[20:49] <fisher> and lose the lowlatency kernel?
[20:49] <fisher> or is it because of jack that the kernel is lowlatency?
[20:49] <holstein> fisher: the low-latency kernel is in the main repos.. and can be installed at anytime in any official (or non-official) distro using the ubuntu repos
[20:49] <pudgypaw> holstein: I think I figured it out, thanks. I'm currently pulling x64 then x32 of ubuntustudio to test, though it's on VM. My question on whether it has to be on metal has been answered i think.
[20:49] <fisher> please forgive me I know just enough about linux to make my self look stupid
[20:49] <holstein> fisher: i think you should forget that term.. low-latency
[20:50] <pudgypaw> holstein, fisher: lol on latency XD
[20:50] <holstein> fisher: you should start doing what you need to do on what system works.. and, if you have issues, then troubleshoot and move on to "better" kernels
[20:51] <fisher> i like the all the prepackaged apps in US tho
[20:51] <fisher> I was running Xubuntu before we started this podcast thing
[20:52] <holstein> fisher: JACK is one of those applications.. and some/most of the other applications require jack
[20:52] <holstein> im not saying this to detract you, or be combative.. just to say, if you are having issues with ubuntustuduio, it might be because you really dont need it
[20:52] <fisher> really, all i think i NEED is audacity as far as recording and editing audio is concerned
[20:53] <holstein> likely..
[20:53] <holstein> and we dont include that AFAIK
[20:54] <fisher> thing is I WILL need video editing and prduction apps too
[20:55] <holstein> right, and we dont really specialize in those either
[20:55] <holstein> openshot is probably the best up and coming thing we have
[20:55] <holstein> i like kdenlive.. though i do very little video editing
[20:55] <holstein> i also dont see the need since the google hangouts go right to youtube
[20:55] <fisher> yeah I have used OS before I like it
[20:56] <holstein> there is also lightroom coming
[20:57] <fisher> goodness. maybe I should just go back to Xubuntu and add what I need as I need it
[20:57] <holstein> fisher: thats what i think would be easier
[20:58] <fisher> at least in Xub everything was working correctly, AFAIK
[20:58] <holstein> fisher: since you really only need 3 or so apps
[20:58] <holstein> fisher: well, we are bascially xubuntu with the ubuntustudio tweaks.. but if you are not used to them, you can really get in trouble quick
[20:59] <fisher> apparently so
[21:00] <fisher> I honestly think its something to do with my video card's HDMI support and PA conflicting with JACK over my sound card. From the last couple days of trying to fix the issue I have gathered that mach
[21:01] <holstein> could be.. and anytime i say "i think" or "it could be" i just test and rule it out
[21:01] <holstein> black list.. try live CD's.. take the card out.. etc.. whatever it takes to be sure
[21:01] <holstein> but, you dont need JACK, and i wouldnt bother with it since you dont need it
[21:01] <fisher> right
[21:01] <holstein> you dont need lowlatency, so i wouldnt worry about that either
[21:02] <fisher>  I will have to try Xubuntu again and go from there
[21:02] <fisher> Do you think I should saty away from the 12.10 and go with the LTS 12.04? I am runnign US 12.10
[21:03] <fisher> I mean when i switch to Xub
[21:03] <holstein> fisher: no reason to stay away from anything... i like to stick to the facts.. 12.04 is an LTS.. are you interested in that long term support? do you need something "fresher" from the repositories that is available in 12.10?
[21:04] <fisher> I just want to make sure that I dont miss out on bug fixes
[21:05] <holstein> fisher: there are always bugs.. some get fixed, some dont
[21:05] <holstein> fisher: in theory, *all* bugs are fixed as long as you are in the support cycle.. which is longer for the LTS
[21:06] <holstein> i would be thinking about what i stated above.. the support cycle and the freshness of the versions. bug patching will depend on a lot of factors that can not be contrutcitively estimated
[21:06] <fisher> Right but I feel as though I will just keep upgrading as new versions are released. such as with 13.04.. I wil likely upgrade when it is released
[21:07] <holstein> if i were planning on upgrading to 13.04, and installing now, i would just install 13.04 now
[21:09] <zequence> 13.04, and following non LTS releases will only be supported for 9 months
[21:09] <fisher> do we know when the next LTS will be?
[21:09] <holstein> zequence: will 14.04 be an LTS?
[21:10] <holstein> fisher: would have been april (04) of 2014 (14) ..14.04
[21:10] <zequence> holstein: Yeah
[21:10] <fisher> ok
[21:11] <zequence> There's a chance that there will only be LTS releases starting from 14.04
[21:20] <DarkEra> zequence, really?
[21:24] <holstein> DarkEra: anything can be voted in, or just be put into effect
[21:28] <pudgypaw> I feel that the 6month releases allow for LTS releases to get into place
[21:28] <pudgypaw> if we only do LTS any mistakes will be as damaging as pulling a windows vista launch
[21:30] <DarkEra> from my point of view going for LTS only means there's more time and focus on the stability of a LTS release
[21:30] <DarkEra> i could be mistaken of course
[21:43] <DarkEra> pudgypaw, the minor release were always a kind of a playground for the plain Ubuntu to test out new features that later are bundled into the LTS release
[21:43] <DarkEra> brb
[21:45] <holstein> the issue is/was the 18month support for the not lts's.. being "distracting"
[21:45] <holstein> lts is just that... long term support... meaning, longer support. not necessarily more "stable"
[21:47] <holstein> i agree though that things are less "experimental" for the lts releases, typically
[21:52] <zequence> I don't agree that the LTS is more stable than non LTS. It depends on what on it you consider to be stable
[21:52] <zequence> For other flavors than Ubuntu, non LTS has sometimes been better than the LTS
[21:53] <zequence> But, recently, the LTS is getting better support
[21:53] <zequence> Or, more specific support
[21:53] <zequence> Since Canonical has Unity now, they don't depend only on Gnome advancements, which are not in sync with LTS releases
[21:54] <DarkEra> back
[21:54] <DarkEra> aha, i see
[21:54] <zequence> Also, when Valve is only supporting the LTS, that will make a difference, as they probably communicate with the graphic card people
[21:54] <holstein> yeah, its just longer support really
[21:55] <holstein> i think the teams may be less likely to throw new software in right before an LTS.. but maybe not
[21:55] <zequence> But, if you're only into audio, and XFCE, there may be no plus side in using the LTS, other than that you know it will be supported for more than 9 months
[21:55] <zequence> No, I don't think the LTS has any less new software from what I've seen
[21:56] <holstein> im not saying "less new software"
[21:56] <holstein> im saying, for example, ,the software center was brought in in 10.10
[21:56] <zequence> either you use software release from the last release, which has been out there for a while, or you don't. And if you don't, you use the latest
[21:56] <zequence> When it comes to Ubuntu specific stuff, it's a little different
[21:57] <zequence> But, Ubuntu is a lot larger than Unity and the Software Center
[21:57] <holstein> not 10.04.. and had time to develop for 12.04.. other software cases like that could come up.. such as mir.. i doubt 14.04 will debut MIR
[21:57] <zequence> The plan is 14.04 will be fully MIR
[21:57] <holstein> but, we dont have any sayso about the LTS's
[21:57] <holstein> lubuntu doesnt even have an LTS at all
[21:57] <DarkEra> so MIR would debut in 13.10 then..?
[21:58] <holstein> im just saying, new software is likely *not* to showup in the LTS..
[21:58] <holstein> and i dont think that is a bad call
[21:58] <zequence> the LTS is just like other releases. A snapshot of what is in Debian + Ubuntu specific stuff. And only a part of the Ubuntu specific things is done by Canonical
[21:58] <holstein> and, the main feature is the support lease
[21:59] <zequence> DarkEra: Yes, it's supposed to have some support for the 13.10 release
[21:59] <Unit193> (Mir is scheduled for 14.04)
[21:59] <holstein> Unit193: i'll buy you something if 14.04 is the premiere of MIR
[21:59] <holstein> Unit193: we'll work out the detail :)
[21:59] <holstein> details*
[21:59] <Unit193> holstein: Heh, I know. :P
[22:00] <zequence> holstein: I guess Unit193 should hope that Canonical does not fall behind schedule, which I don't believe they usually dop
[22:01] <zequence> They haven't been creating new window managers before, though
[22:01] <DarkEra> zequence, what's ubuntu studio going to do, adopt mir too?
[22:01] <zequence> DarkEra: That's really not up to us. We go which ever way XFCE goes
[22:01] <Unit193> (Though this is technically a display server.)  Some of the projects are just kind of getting basic bug fixes, though.  bzr and launchpad to name two.
[22:02] <FisherMack> Hey folks... I'm back. NickServ kept kicking me off because "fisher" was a registered name and I had been on too long
[22:02] <holstein> DarkEra: we will likely follow xubuntu
[22:02] <DarkEra> zequence, holstein ah ok, got ya
[22:02] <DarkEra> wb FisherMack
[22:03] <FisherMack> I only came back to say thanks to holstein and zequence for helping me see the light in the last day or so..lol Thanks
[22:03] <holstein> FisherMack: cheers
[22:03] <zequence> FisherMack: Hope it was worth the trouble :)
[22:04] <FisherMack> it will be. I have Xub 12.04 downloading now and will be installing it on both my machines
[22:05] <FisherMack> I just inadvertently over-complicated my situationby using a system i dont really need.
[22:05] <holstein> FisherMack: you can always come here for audio questions or whatever you need.. and you can load up the ubuntustudio live CD and test anytime as well
[22:07] <FisherMack> i'll will try it again when i upgrade my main studio machine. Really this one that im on now is not being used for recording and what not.. its really more for normal computer and internet use.. I just like to save my other machine solely for the purpose of recording and publishing
[22:12] <FisherMack> I better go. Thanks again for your help holstein and zequence .. later
[22:50] <pudgypaw> back
[22:53] <pudgypaw> Thing is, while LTS itself may not be the most stable, they eventually receive it, become 12.04.1, 12.04.2. Other people get the straight PPA from sources they want immediate stable releases for (like irie: blender)
[22:56] <pudgypaw> while linux is like a huge river of ever changing code and updates, LTS finds stable projects where the slide between features and stability is in the latter, and package to the public who want minimal upkeep.
[22:57] <pudgypaw> only throwing support behind LTS seems fine if it reduces distraction from supporting 6mo stuff.. most businesses stick to LTS servers anyways