[02:15] <Noskcaj> knome: so you know, i've added the testing team and bug squad to the magazine article http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-articles-xubuntucommunity would you mind proofreading it?
[02:19] <Noskcaj> can someone running the default themes add some screenshots to the magazine articles?
[06:56] <Noskcaj> is it just me or is the login manager getting worse?
[13:59] <ochosi> skellat, knome: any news on bug #1158431 ?
[14:38] <GridCube> what testings are missing?
[19:56] <pleia2> Noskcaj: should check the archives if you're having trouble reading messages
[19:56] <Noskcaj> pleia2, is there a link?
[19:56] <pleia2> on the bottom of every message
[19:57] <pleia2> devel mailing list main page has a link to the archives
[19:57] <pleia2> (same with ubuntu-quality)
[19:59] <Noskcaj> ok, thanks
[20:06] <Noskcaj> is there anything people want me to do for the magazine articles? i'm going to be away for a few days
[20:08] <pleia2> Noskcaj: can you explain which screenshots you wanted in your article?
[20:08] <pleia2> also some kind of conclusion to wrap up the article would be nice :)
[20:08] <Noskcaj> pleia2, all i can think of is one of the testdrive main screen and maybe one of the iso tracker.
[20:09] <pleia2> we're going to remove testdrive from these instructions
[20:09] <Noskcaj> ok, why?
[20:09]  * pleia2 gets the logs
[20:09] <pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/04/09/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t20:42
[20:10] <pleia2> (we tried to get your attention, but I guess you weren't around :))
[20:11] <Noskcaj> i see, i had just turned my PC off.
[20:16] <Noskcaj> it's a shame we''re removing testdrive, it's the most complete testing program, but you have a point
[20:17] <pleia2> it's really quite different from the other two tools, so we'd need to write two different sets of instructions which gets overwhelming
[20:19] <Noskcaj> yeah, i agree
[20:19] <Noskcaj> and testdrive is so buggy it hurts
[20:23] <Noskcaj> knome, use https://trello.com/board/autopilot-tests/50e735ad7351f0a64e00040c for autopilot things
[20:23] <Noskcaj> i recommend you make a leafpad testcase an an Xchat testcase first
[20:24] <knome> Noskcaj, i appreciate that somebody is organizing that, but as i wrote in the mail, i think we need to cooperate the xubuntu efforts on the wiki first
[20:24] <Noskcaj> yeah, possibly
[20:24] <knome> Noskcaj, i'd imagine that trello board is not for planning and discussion, looks like it's more for gathering together all things
[20:25] <knome> my point is that we don't even know how we can benefit from any automated testing.
[20:25] <pleia2> knome: added first draft of my article, need to tidy it up
[20:26] <Noskcaj> knome, ask balloons. but mostly because it speeds up testing so much, especially the post-install tests. which could really benfit from it
[20:26] <knome> Noskcaj, i have general knowledge on automated testing, but i don't know where and how we can make it actually beneficial
[20:27] <knome> pleia2, right, i'll need to see that
[20:27] <knome> pleia2, how's your saturday?
[20:27] <Noskcaj> knome, mostly the post install tests, which are very tedious.
[20:28] <pleia2> knome: I can wake up at 1400 if needed, but the rest of my weekend is stupid busy
[20:28] <knome> 14UTC?
[20:28] <pleia2> yeah
[20:29] <knome> okay...
[20:29] <knome> i'm not sure if that works for me. a late night would be better
[20:29] <pleia2> I'm out the rest of the day
[20:29] <knome> (i *might* be around at that time as well, but... meh)
[20:29] <knome> do you leave on monday or sunday to the conference?
[20:29] <pleia2> monday
[20:30] <knome> okay
[20:30] <pleia2> before the sun comes up
[20:30] <knome> heh
[20:30] <pleia2> Sunday is my clean home + pack for conference + more wedding stuff
[20:30] <pleia2> so really no time there :(
[20:30] <knome> yeah. i was wondering if we will have any time to work on the articles together
[20:30] <knome> today?
[20:31] <pleia2> yeah, I'll try today
[20:31] <pleia2> have work for the next 3.5 hours
[20:31] <knome> i can basically be around at any time, if it's something that'll allow me to sleep
[20:32] <knome> that's probably pushing it... but i could look around the articles during that time and then try to stay up some time just to coordinate the rest with you
[20:33] <pleia2> ok, you want to look through (can leave notes for me), then I look through tonight, then tomorrow we try to do finishing touches?
[20:33] <knome> gah, is the wiki playing on me again
[20:33] <knome> yep, that sounds like the most feasible plan
[20:34] <knome> i'll try to gather a todo-list *at least*
[20:34] <knome> my neck still hurts really bad, so i'll have to keep breaks and stuff.
[20:37] <knome> who's light blue on the community artile?
[20:37] <knome> *article
[20:37] <knome> we should've told people to leave a comment in the chat to identify them
[20:37] <pleia2> I think it was Noskcaj 
[20:37] <knome> do we want to keep the "if" -thing going?
[20:38] <pleia2> I think it's fine
[20:39] <pleia2> those sections do need to be xubuntu-ized
[20:39] <knome> in that case i'd change the sections before as well
[20:39] <knome> all the sentences start with "if" there ;)
[20:40] <knome> yeah.
[20:40] <knome> who enjoys "finding bugs" :)
[20:41] <pleia2> hehe
[20:41] <knome> that's just a weird way to step into the section
[20:43] <knome> i'm thinking about the article scope
[20:43] <knome> do we want to describe the actual steps to get involved (like in testing and bug triage), or just give the reader an idea how they could help (like the previous ones)
[20:44] <pleia2> ah, good point
[20:44] <knome> because that's prone to change too
[20:44] <knome> daily build -> too technical :)
[20:45] <pleia2> yeah, dropping it entirely is fine
[20:45] <knome> i'll look if there's something i can mention
[20:45] <pleia2> plus this applies to stable too, where an SRU may be needed (unrelated to daily builds)
[20:45] <knome> yup
[20:50] <knome> the pad's lagging
[20:51] <pleia2> looks like you fell off
[20:51] <knome> i fell off like 5 times
[20:51] <pleia2> I'm not editing so if you want to do some offline for a bit and copy it in later that's fine
[20:52] <knome> if the pad continues playing with me, i'll do that
[20:52] <pleia2> really, if we want to mvoe them all to google docs at this point that's ok
[20:52] <knome> does gdocs show character counts?
[20:52] <pleia2> then we have an easy export to do to get them to Sonny anyway
[20:52] <pleia2> pretty sure, if not you can download as .odt anyway
[20:52] <knome> yeah.
[20:52]  * pleia2 checks
[20:52]  * knome breaths deeply
[20:52] <knome> i hate the pad
[20:53] <pleia2> does word count
[20:53] <knome> it's dis/reconnecting me every 10 secs
[20:53] <pleia2> oh, include characters
[20:53] <knome> good
[20:53] <knome> let's do that
[20:53] <pleia2> so yeah, move everything to docs and invite lyz@princessleia.com to edit plz
[20:53] <knome> meh!
[20:53] <knome> :)
[20:53] <knome> i will
[20:53] <knome> once i get my head around how to do that
[20:53]  * pleia2 voluntells knome 
[20:53] <knome> and get a few hits at the pad
[20:54] <knome> lol
[20:54] <knome> so docs.google.com is really "gods.com"
[20:54]  * knome has horrible typing again
[20:54] <knome> gdocs says "Sorry, there was an error performing this operation."
[20:55] <knome> ...what operation?
[20:55] <knome> i just logged in.
[20:56] <knome> you should be shared a folder in my gdrive now
[20:56] <pleia2> \o/
[20:56] <knome> great!
[20:58] <knome> how can i see if you're on?
[20:58]  * pleia2 opens a doc
[20:59] <knome> ah, great
[20:59] <knome> you have opened the document!
[20:59] <pleia2> :)
[20:59] <pleia2> going out to run a couple errands (need some fresh air)
[20:59] <knome> ok, hf
[20:59] <knome> (i need some fresh air too...)
[21:35] <knome> pleia2, i reviewed and revised the community article
[21:36] <knome> pleia2, moving the other articles to gdocs now as well
[21:37] <pleia2> knome: wanna delete content in etherpad and just leave a "thanks for your article, it's being sent to the editor!" note?
[21:37] <pleia2> just in case anyone tries to edit more
[21:37] <knome> yeah, i'll do that once i've done moving each
[21:38] <knome> the themes article needs p-a-r-a-g-r-a-p-h-s :)
[21:50] <Pwnna> so..
[21:51] <Pwnna> i noticed the the development for xubuntu is somewhat stalling
[21:51] <Pwnna> I'm a developer and I use Xubuntu on a daily basis
[21:51] <knome> it's not, ubuntu just has most of the freezes right now and there's not much we can do
[21:51] <Pwnna> so i want to contribute. However I mainly work with the web and stuff. not sure how to start
[21:51] <Pwnna> oh is it?
[21:52] <pleia2> yeah, release is just 2 weeks away :)
[21:52] <pleia2> so only major bug fixes are going on right now
[21:52] <knome> Pwnna, http://xubuntu.org/contribute/  is a good starting point.
[21:52] <knome> talking to me and pleia2 isn't bad either.
[21:52] <Pwnna> i'm upgrading my netbook to 13.04. i think i have a security issue..
[21:52] <knome> (i'm the project lead, pleia2 is the website/marketing lead)
[21:52] <Pwnna> yeah i know
[21:52] <Unit193> (At least it didn't freeze as long as wheezy has been in for)
[21:52] <Pwnna> i saw :)
[21:52] <knome> Pwnna, have you filed a bug?
[21:52] <Pwnna> not yet. my main dev machine is on LTS
[21:53] <knome> ok, please do as soon as you can so people can start working on it
[21:53] <Pwnna> i'm upgrading to beta2
[21:53] <Pwnna> and i'll see if the bug is still present
[21:53] <Pwnna> it's not a critical security issue imo
[21:54] <pleia2> Pwnna: as far as web stuff goes, if you find something that needs fixing/updating/whatever on the website we have bugs for that too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website - once you submit a bug you can also follow up with it with ideas on how to fix (we like when people volunteer to help after noticing an issue!)
[21:54] <Pwnna> pleia2: i'm more interested in doing dev for the desktop! get away from what i do regularly :P
[21:54] <pleia2> Pwnna: ah ok :)
[21:54] <pleia2> Pwnna: might consider contributing directly to Xfce too, since that's where we get our whole environment from
[21:54] <knome> Pwnna, just a note that i'm doing a website redesign right now, so things can be more or less out of place ;)
[21:55] <pleia2> we do themes and such, but the Xfce folks handle major desktop stuff
[21:55] <Pwnna> so if anyone wants to reproduce the bug before I can: in your user session click switch user. Then switch to a different user (I used guest), then click CTRL + ALT + F7. *No* password prompt needed to get back into your account
[21:55] <Pwnna> hm
[21:55] <Pwnna> what does the xubuntu people actually do?
[21:55] <knome> drink beer
[21:55]  * knome hides
[21:55] <Pwnna> lol
[21:56] <pleia2> the contribute page that knome linked gives an overview :)
[21:56] <Unit193> I drink coffee, eat cookies, and randomly try to fix the docs or if something else is out of place.
[21:56] <knome> Pwnna, on a more serious tone, we usually just "stitch" several things together and make sure they work smoothly
[21:56] <pleia2> packaging, testing, bug reporting+fixing, theme design stuff, marketing
[21:56] <Pwnna> i see
[21:56] <Pwnna> hm
[21:57] <knome> Pwnna, now and then we have some projects to create some completely new features as well, though they usually end up upstream ;)
[21:57] <knome> (which is the point too...)
[21:57] <Pwnna> heh awesome
[21:57] <Pwnna> but yeah. that bug is somewhat serious? idk..
[21:57] <Unit193> Display dialog and gtk theme editor, for two examples.
[21:57] <Pwnna> still waiting for my updater.
[21:57] <Pwnna> not sure if that's an upstream issue, however.
[21:57] <Pwnna> xubuntu needs stickers!
[21:57] <Pwnna> :P
[21:58] <knome> we have stickers!
[21:58] <knome> you can order them from moo.com!
[21:59] <Pwnna> where?
[21:59] <Pwnna> o.O
[21:59] <knome> hmm, we didn't publish that page on our website yet
[21:59] <knome> just a second
[21:59] <Pwnna> the github octocat stickers are tempting too. they're outta stock, however
[21:59] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products#Stickers
[22:00] <Pwnna> aww but no one other than those that uses xubuntu know what that logo means :P
[22:02] <knome> it's a good conversation opener.
[22:02] <Pwnna> lol
[22:03] <Unit193> "Why do you have a (rat|bunny) on your laptop?"
[22:03] <Pwnna> iunno. i'm gonna be sticking a tonne of octocats..
[22:03] <Pwnna> so..
[22:03] <knome> no one knows what they mean either
[22:03] <Pwnna> i ripped off my win7 sticker
[22:03] <Pwnna> it needs a replacement ;)
[22:04] <Pwnna> knome: well but they look weird and more prominent than a ratbunny ;)
[22:04] <knome> we have case badges under work.
[22:04] <Pwnna> all the xubuntu swag. heh
[22:04] <knome> we even did a first printing
[22:04] <knome> where are you from? canada?
[22:04] <Pwnna> :o
[22:04] <Pwnna> yup
[22:04] <Pwnna> yay unmasked host
[22:05] <knome> if you are nice for pleia2, she might send you one or two.
[22:05] <Pwnna> :o
[22:05] <knome> i have them as well, but i live across the pond
[22:05] <pleia2> yeah, email lyz@ubuntu.com with your postal address and I'll send some over
[22:05] <Pwnna> heh.
[22:05] <Pwnna> i'm gonna be moving soon..ish
[22:06] <Pwnna> so idk if i can accept mail at this point
[22:06] <pleia2> ah well, whenever :)
[22:06] <Pwnna> though i do have like 16 days.. hmm
[22:06] <pleia2> I tend to order more when I run out, so I usually have a supply of them
[22:06] <knome> pleia2's going to be all across the world in the following month, so be quick!
[22:06] <knome> (disclaimer: in one piece and in one place at a time)
[22:07] <pleia2> just east, then south a bit :)
[22:07] <bluesabre> just one?
[22:07] <pleia2> sticking with this continent afterall
[22:07] <knome> yeah, not in ghana, then US, then denmark, then US... like the last time.
[22:07] <pleia2> hehe
[22:07] <Pwnna> me too!
[22:07] <pleia2> that was a tiring month
[22:08] <knome> bluesabre, yes. i think it's better for us if pleia2 stays in one piece
[22:08] <bluesabre> ah
[22:08] <knome> bluesabre, actually, she's going to be two-in-one soon!
[22:08] <bluesabre> yeah, that would be useful, unless she can do twice as much as two parts?
[22:08] <Unit193> Can't do twice as much with twice as many pleia2s?
[22:08] <bluesabre> :D
[22:08] <pleia2> well next week I go to Portland, then Philly, then Mexico
[22:08] <knome> (and that's not in a kinky way, just how many people conceptualize marriage)
[22:08] <pleia2> portland is north I guess
[22:09] <Pwnna> pleia2: hmm i definitely have enough time! hopefully :) email'ed 
[22:09] <knome> Unit193, i guess she hasn't got the ability to actually split into two different pieces which are both similar to what she's now... otherwise i might need to have one here.
[22:10] <Unit193> Silly birds/bats in the chimney again...
[22:11] <lderan> darn them
[22:13] <knome> pleia2, all articles moved over to gdocs
[22:14] <Pwnna> gdocs!
[22:14] <knome> yes?
[22:14] <Pwnna> the inability to do more complicated headers/footers, as well as just the general lack of features really.. >_>
[22:14] <knome> it's like heave compared to a laggy etherpad.
[22:14] <knome> heaven too
[22:15] <knome> and we don't really need complicated stuff
[22:15] <Pwnna> yeah i know
[22:15] <Pwnna> i use it a lot now..
[22:15] <knome> and it's just temporary anyway
[22:15] <Pwnna> there really needs to be an alternative to it..
[22:15] <Unit193> There is skydrive. :P
[22:15] <Pwnna> ..... 
[22:15] <Pwnna> ._.
[22:16] <lderan> it works...kind of
[22:16]  * Pwnna is a microsoft-free user! :D
[22:16] <knome> i'm not...kind of
[22:16] <Pwnna> lol
[22:16] <knome> i stil need to run windows under virtualbox, but i don't have a native installation anywhere
[22:17] <lderan> i have to use their stuff at work, there is no escape for me
[22:17] <knome> i try to avoid it, but i have some rare clients who need some windows-consulting
[22:17] <knome> it was nice to see how windows 8 was... until i needed to configure it
[22:18] <Unit193> Tax software...  Anyway, Libreoffice did have some weird document CVS type thing in 4.0+, don't know how to use it though.
[22:18] <pleia2> I have to do some corporate stuff on windows, but not much or often
[22:18] <knome> anyway, this starts going offtopic, so let's continue on #xubuntu-offtopic
[22:18] <Pwnna> oh yeah me too. i guess
[22:18] <Pwnna> autocad grr
[22:19]  * lderan goes back to setting up a moinmoin wiki for testing
[22:23] <knome> pleia2, i worked some more on the testing article. i think it's much better now, but it also lacks around 1800 chars.
[22:24] <knome> pleia2, there is still things to extend though
[22:24] <knome> pleia2, i'm wondering if we should go through setting up a vbox installation as well. it's not too long, and it would be quite useful
[22:30] <bluesabre> ooh
[22:30] <bluesabre> I think I managed to upload a new catfish to the catfish-stable ppa
[22:30] <knome> ooh what? you want to help?
[22:30] <knome> oh damnit.
[22:30] <bluesabre> we'll find out if it builds
[22:30] <knome> ;)
[22:31]  * bluesabre wonders if one successful package is enough for me to get upload rights
[22:31] <knome> haha
[22:31] <knome> probably not, but it's a good start
[22:31] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:31] <bluesabre> if it does work, I might be able to get you to talk to scott to upload it to raring
[22:32] <Unit193> bluesabre: pdebuilder can help there, one of the worst issues I hit with upload was I had entered "unstable" for dist. :P
[22:32] <bluesabre> nice
[22:32] <knome> i'd imagine a few succeful uploads would warrant you to get the upload permissions to xubuntu packages, if we set up team delegation
[22:32] <knome> bluesabre, rather just make a general query for sponsorship
[22:33] <knome> poking (too) busy people with our errands is not what i want to do every day :)
[22:34] <knome> (philosophically thinking, i don't know if there is any single thing i want to do every day)
[22:34] <Unit193> Eat.
[22:34] <bluesabre> Go to the moon?
[22:34] <bluesabre> and get paid for it
[22:35] <knome> yeah. but sometimes it just feels like it's a mandatory thing you have to perform
[22:35] <knome> i assume that would be physically exhausting thing to do every day...
[22:35] <knome> ...and we're going offtopic again :)
[22:35] <bluesabre> :D
[22:35] <bluesabre> This always happens when I am around ;)
[22:35] <knome> nah, it's one of the things that tell you you've done enough FOSS work for the day
[22:38] <lderan> good to know :P
[22:38] <bluesabre> woo!  Hedgewars update!
[22:38] <knome> bluesabre, HA!
[22:38] <bluesabre> Good to know these things are still getting updates after all the freezes are over
[22:38] <knome> oh.
[22:38] <knome> duh.
[22:38] <knome> :)
[22:38] <bluesabre> its important, for sure
[22:39] <knome> very.
[22:39] <knome> but if it's non-seeded...
[22:39] <knome> then it should have no problems getting in if it's just bug fixes
[22:40] <bluesabre> we should consider adding it as part of the xubuntu seed
[22:40] <bluesabre> ;)
[22:41] <knome> hah
[22:41]  * bluesabre hides from incoming slap
[22:41] <knome> inkscape first.
[22:41] <knome> nah
[22:41] <knome> my neck/back hurts so no slapping for me
[22:42] <bluesabre> wow, launchpad never gets my packages in the build queue for just 15 minutes
[22:42] <bluesabre> this is amazing
[22:46] <lderan> \o/
[22:46]  * knome tickles lderan from the armpit
[22:47]  * lderan flails a bit
[23:11] <bluesabre> wooo!
[23:11] <bluesabre> it worked
[23:12] <bluesabre> it built and the previous packaging issues are fixed
[23:12] <knome> :)
[23:13] <lderan> yay
[23:32] <Pwnna> login screen: password text and the hostname text is white..
[23:32] <Pwnna> hard to see
[23:33] <bluesabre> yeah, known bug, we need an uploader to get the latest version of our theme before we can "fix" that
[23:34] <Pwnna> ok
[23:34] <bluesabre> knome, I vote for you
[23:35] <knome> bluesabre, you can't.
[23:35] <bluesabre> to continue being XPL
[23:35] <knome> bluesabre, yet.
[23:35] <Pwnna> i feel like my sensors output is wrong for this netbook o.o
[23:35] <bluesabre> I know
[23:35] <Pwnna> uh. wrong windo
[23:35] <bluesabre> But I will
[23:35] <knome> :)
[23:35] <knome> thanks
[23:35] <bluesabre> Unless I am missing from the internet that day
[23:35] <knome> if you wish to, you can leave some supporting words in my wikipage
[23:35] <knome> i just noticed i went 1000 chars over my limit!
[23:36] <bluesabre> :O
[23:36] <lderan> oh no!
[23:37] <knome> well i'm just cutting down the crap i put in there
[23:37] <knome> i mean, the extra characters
[23:37] <pleia2> knome: remember, we're not doing screenshots everywhere
[23:37] <pleia2> so we may need more words in some articles
[23:37] <pleia2> also - should we use the picture from UDS in our community article?
[23:37] <lderan> knome, i've got the #startmeeting to be case insensitive because i stumbled across it :P
[23:38] <knome> lderan, hehe
[23:38] <knome> pleia2, mmh.
[23:38] <knome> pleia2, see the community article
[23:39] <knome> pleia2, it's 4998 chars.. without spaces
[23:39] <knome> OOPS!
[23:39] <knome> :)
[23:39]  * pleia2 shrugs
[23:39] <knome> yeah.
[23:39] <knome> but you also might want to check i didn't write i secretly love pleia2 in a pink unicorn dress.
[23:40] <pleia2> this article is pretty
[23:40] <pleia2> haha
[23:40] <pleia2> right, no unicorn dresses
[23:40] <knome> for you or me?
[23:40] <knome> :|
[23:40] <pleia2> for me
[23:41] <knome> ah! then it's fine
[23:41] <knome> ;)=
[23:42] <knome> i mean, the aforementioned sentence might imply *i'm* in the pink unicorn dress, secretly loving pleia2 
[23:42] <pleia2> true
[23:42] <Unit193> lderan: Great!  We can finally use #StArTmEeTiNg !
[23:42] <pleia2> I'll keep an eye out for that too
[23:43] <knome> good good
[23:43] <knome> i don't remember i wrote that, but if i did, please edit it away
[23:43] <lderan> Unit193, who wouldn't want to use that?
[23:43] <pleia2> Unit193: you totally would open a bug report requesting that
[23:43] <knome> i don't fancy pink unicorn dresses either
[23:43] <Unit193> pleia2: ...That'd be one I'd even have to file, with my hate for bugs. :P
[23:44] <knome> Unit193, file a bug saying people shouldn't need to file bugs because that's just clearly against humanity.
[23:44] <knome> Unit193, if you file it against xubuntu-website, i'll mark it as invalid and comment that rather than what you wrote, it's against humanity needing to *process* bugs.
[23:51] <bluesabre> Unit193, but bugs get rid of that false sense of security
[23:51] <bluesabre> I thought catfish was finally perfect, but the bugs finally started rolling in
[23:52] <Unit193> bluesabre: I never have that, my 82845G/GL with the i915 driver makes sure of that on the one computer...
[23:52] <bluesabre> :D
[23:52] <bluesabre> could be worse
[23:53] <bluesabre> I found a bug with the current kernel version with my laptop
[23:53] <bluesabre> but its fixed in the next kernel version
[23:53] <bluesabre> which means I am stuck with it until 13.10
[23:53] <bluesabre> no suspending for me
[23:53] <bluesabre> I guess thats not worse though
[23:53] <bluesabre> since yours will never work right
[23:54] <bluesabre> ... sorry
[23:54] <bluesabre> :D
[23:59] <knome> pleia2, you're off work any minute!
[23:59] <pleia2> yes, and have to run to the post office for Pwnna's stickers!
[23:59] <knome> hehe