=== Jim is now known as Guest82581
jconnettAnybody here, yet!20:48
c7phallo !20:54
TonyPHi everyone!20:54
godbykHey, c7p. Hi, jconnett!20:54
godbykHey, TonyP.20:54
cqfd93Hi everyone!20:54
TonyPMade it on time, this time :-)20:55
c7p\me 2nd meeting for today20:55
* c7p forgot the commands20:55
jconnettHowdy all. Yes...I, too, forgot the commands, so nothing fancy from me today!20:57
c7pexcuse me for coming without preparation, is there any agenda ?20:57
godbykc7p: No formal agenda.20:59
godbykc7p: I basically just want to check in with everyone and see how things are going, etc.20:59
godbykHi, hannie!20:59
hanniehey godbyk and all present21:00
jconnettAlright! 2:00pm PDT. Let's get this party started!21:00
c7pnice then !21:00
CarstenGHi at all21:00
CarstenGGood evening :-)21:00
jconnett@impeccable timing, Carsten!21:00
meetingologyjconnett: Error: "impeccable" is not a valid command.21:00
manualbotjconnett: Error: "impeccable" is not a valid command.21:00
jconnettExcellent timing, Carsten!21:01
c7phi !21:01
CarstenGYes, just came back from a family party :-)21:02
godbykOkay, let's see if anyone is missing.21:02
godbykCarstenG: Aw, sorry to pull you away from that.21:02
CarstenGNo problem21:03
godbykIt looks like most of us are here. We're missing two or three, but they may pop in a bit later.21:03
godbykI'll fire up meetingology just so it records everything, but I expect this meeting will be fairly informal.21:03
meetingologyMeeting started Sat Apr 13 21:03:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.21:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired21:03
jconnettWe'll save all the work to assign to those missing...when they pop in!21:03
godbyk#topic Roll call21:03
godbykIf you're here, say hi!21:04
godbyk#topic Status report21:05
godbykI called this meeting to touch base with everyone and see how things are going.21:05
godbykI wanted to hear from the authors and editors of any problems they're encountering and if they think we can still make our schedule or if we need to adjust things.21:05
hanniePerhaps we should start with the authoring phase?21:05
godbykhannie: Good idea.21:06
godbykSo how are things on the authoring side?21:06
godbykThe authoring phase was originally scheduled to be complete at March 25 but we informally extended it for a week or so.21:06
c7pis there any author here ?21:06
jconnettI became an unofficial author as I had to undo Nautilus and incorporate Files in the Desktop chapter.21:07
godbykHave we heard from John Cave recently?21:07
hanniejconnett, I had already rewritten Nautilus (to files)21:08
godbykjconnett: Okay, so are you effectively authoring and editing the dash/search bar/browsing files section? How about the Ubuntu desktop environment section?21:08
c7pyeah, he sent me a mail saying he don't want to contribute to our project any more21:08
hannieDid you have to add things to it?21:08
godbykc7p: Okay.21:08
c7phe did his section but i don't know how well it is21:08
godbykc7p: Oh. I'll undo my changes in the spreadsheet then. :-)21:09
c7pso i sent it to Jim Connett, not sure if he received it21:09
jconnettHannie had already rewritten the Nautilus section, but there were at least 5 sections I can recall where commands/GUI/screen responses were different.21:09
c7pjconnett: have you received my mail ?21:09
godbykjconnett: Yeah. There may be more, too. We'll have to keep our eyes open for that. Nautilus/Files is kind of pervasive.21:10
jconnett@c7p Yes, I did. I incorporated the file. Didn't I reply?>21:10
meetingologyjconnett: Error: "c7p" is not a valid command.21:10
manualbotjconnett: Error: "c7p" is not a valid command.21:10
TonyPI have done changes Nautilus > Files in U1 section21:11
godbykHi, tacorwin.21:11
tacorwinHello, godbyk21:11
godbykFor the next cycle, I may add some more LaTeX commands just for our internal use.21:11
c7pjconnett:  i think not, but no big deal if you are doing/did the job21:11
godbykWe'd use these commands to note which versions of the software are documented in each section/chapter.21:11
godbykThat way we can compare those versions with new versions and see what's different.21:12
godbykOtherwise it's hard to track down each mention of something.21:12
tacorwinAre authors still allowed to edit their sections?21:12
godbykWe can also add some commands to specify what state the section is in (needs review, currently being edited, finished, etc.).21:13
godbykThat will help is keep track of our progress.21:13
godbyktacorwin: Are you still working on a section? Which one?21:13
hanniec7p, have you had any emails from Vibhav Pant?21:13
c7ptacorwin:   typically not, but i think if they can come in contact with the editor maybe21:13
c7phannie: no i haven't get any mail from him21:14
tacorwinI was going to look at, and review the Advanced Topic section. I wanted to go through and hopefully add a few screenshots, if someone could take them for me.21:14
tacorwinI needed to look over the section on WINE21:14
godbyktacorwin: Okay. You should chat with jconnett and work with him on that so you guys don't end up with conflicting files.21:15
tacorwingodbyk: Alrighty.21:15
jconnettI'm done with my pass through the Advanced section. Feel free to hack away.21:15
c7pto complete the report of what remain to be done from the authoring aspect21:15
c7pSoftware Management chapter doesn't have author21:16
TonyPSomething needs to be done with Microblogging21:16
tacorwinjconnett, godbyk, and c7p: Alright. Thanks guys.21:16
c7p*Viewing and Editing Photos21:16
c7p*Reading and composing mail21:16
c7p* Burning CDs and DVDs21:16
c7palso don't have authors but author is not needed in these sections i guess too21:16
jconnettI already went through Viewing/Editing Photos as well as teh Burning CDs and DVDs section...made changes as needed.21:17
c7pso Software center is the problem21:17
godbykjconnett: Okay, so those sections are up to date now?21:17
c7psoft. management*21:17
jconnettI'd say yes, but wouldn't hurt to have someone else go through it again.21:18
hanniecqfd93, edited software management21:18
cqfd93I already reviewed software management21:18
cqfd93and made the screenshots21:18
godbykcqfd93: Does that chapter need to be updated or is it in good shape?21:19
jconnettI've been lazy about my screenshots. I think Carsten was covering for me on that front, right Carsten?21:19
cqfd93it seems in good shape21:19
godbykcqfd93: Okay, thanks.21:20
cqfd93when I see screenshots I can do in other chapters, I do them :-)21:20
tacorwinjconnett: Could you possibly help me get some screenshots taken? I am unable to install 13.04 on any of my machines.21:20
godbykThe original plan for screenshots was that authors would take the initial screenshots.  These draft screenshots can be the wrong size, wrong theme, etc. but need to provide enough info to the screenshot editors so they know what the screenshot should be of when they retake it 'properly'.21:21
CarstenGWell, I have some problems this week with my VM QEMU. But tomorrow I'm back at my laptop with real raring installation and I can contribute missing screenshots.21:21
godbykBut it seems as if there's been some confusion or problems when it comes to screenshots.21:21
c7pgodbyk +121:21
godbykHow is everyone currently handling screenshots?21:21
tacorwinI am an author, and are unable to take any screenshots, godbyk21:22
tacorwinbut i would like a couple put into the manual21:22
godbyktacorwin: Can you at least take some draft screenshots that give us enough idea of what you want an official screenshot it?21:22
tacorwinit will have to be taken on a machine with Ubuntu 12.04.2, if that is alright.21:23
CarstenGWhat means  "unable to take any screenshots", tacorwin?21:23
godbykAn easy way to take a draft screenshot is to ensure you have the proper window active and then press Alt+PrintScreen.21:23
godbykIf you want a screenshot of the entire desktop, just press PrintScreen.21:23
godbykA window will appear asking you for the filename and where to save the screenshot.21:23
tacorwinI am unable to use 13.04 on my current machine, CarstenG.21:23
CarstenG... or use the nice little program "shreenshot"21:23
tacorwinAlt-PrintScreen works for me.21:24
godbykCarstenG: Or that. Though if that's the program you and hannie have been promoting, it seems that everyone forgets to turn off the cursor and other settings.21:24
hannieIt's all in the style guide21:25
godbykAre there any chapters or sections that we still need an author or editor to look at it?21:25
hannieChapter 4: screenshots21:25
godbykIt sounds like some of those 'missing author' sections have been reviewed by editors already.21:25
cqfd93tacorwin: what section are you working on?21:25
CarstenGright, Kevin, but Alt+PrintScreen takes also the mouspointer into account.21:25
hannieNot all chapters/sections have an editor, but not all chapters need one21:26
godbykCarstenG: I just tried it here and I don't see a mouse cursor in the screenshot.21:27
tacorwincqfd93: The "Advanced Topics" chapter, specifically the "How to run Windows Programs on Ubuntu" section21:27
hannieHave we decided on what to do with Wubi yet?21:27
godbykFor the sections in the spreadsheet with (none) listed as the author, do any of those sections need an author at this point?21:28
jconnettFYI...I just filled in my name to the empty "editor" slots on Chapter 2. I went through the whole chapter.21:28
godbykhannie: I haven't heard anything more about it since that mailing list posting, but I haven't searched around either.21:28
cqfd93tacorwin: ok, I'll se if I can take screenshots for it21:28
godbykhannie: We should track someone down and get confirmation about Wubi one way or another, though.21:28
jconnettWubi is gone, right? If so, the section goes to the bit-bucket in the sky.21:28
hanniegodbyk, perhaps we should leave it in this version of the manual21:28
tacorwinThanks you cqfd93 ! I dont have the LaTeX code there for it yet, but i will have it there tonight.21:29
godbykjconnett: Ostensibly, yes. But someone mentioned that it still lives on the daily ISO image.21:29
TonyPYes wubi has gone21:29
c7pi can't tell for sure if an author is needed for sure on any section21:29
godbykOkay, I'll pull the Wubi stuff from the manual then. If it ends up getting added back to the ISO, then we can reinstate that material.21:29
CarstenGyes, I found the wubi.exe in the iso from 8th april.21:29
hannieTonyP, some sites say it has gone, others say it may be dropped from raring21:30
cqfd93the hardware chapter only has one (tiny) screenshot, is that intentional?21:30
jconnettI've seen many message in my RSS feed regarding Wubi-no-more.21:30
c7pgodbyk: i guess editors can tell at this phase of the series21:30
TonyPhannie: it has bugs init21:30
hannieso people who have installed wubi should not switch to raring?21:31
godbykI'll drop Wubi for now. I can add it back in later if I get some official word that it will be on the ISO (and is functional).21:31
godbykIs there anything else to discuss on the authoring phase?21:32
godbykIf not, we can move on to the editing phase.21:32
jconnettI just googled "wubi in ubuntu 13.04 raring"...every article states it's dropped.21:32
jconnett...that is, every article on the FIRST page of results :)21:32
hanniec7p, will you adjust the credits section for the authors part? I will add editors names21:32
tacorwinhmm.. I wonder why wubi is being dropped?21:33
tacorwinthats true..21:33
CarstenGit has problem working under windows 8 e.g.21:33
jconnett...CarstenG: yea, that too.21:34
tacorwinah. i see.21:34
hannieI have had no problems with wubi on a Windows 7 machine so far21:34
tacorwinhannie: I had problems with 12.04.3. All of the graphics were screwed up and files were corrupted.21:35
tacorwinusing wubi.exe21:35
hannietacorwin, that is not so good21:35
jconnettIf it's not actively maintained, it's a risk to the integrity of the user experience, so it makes sense.21:35
hannieIt depends on what bios is installed21:35
tacorwinI'd take over the wubi project if i could. and its not always BIOS at fault.21:36
hannieSo, do we agree to leave the wubi part out of this version of our manual?21:37
tacorwinAgree as well.21:37
jconnett'%' it!~21:37
hanniejconnett, good idea21:38
jconnettCan someone do a global search through the ENTIRE manual to ensure "wubi" is not mentioned?21:38
godbykjconnett: I'll take care of the Wubi stuff.21:39
cqfd93there is still its entry in the glossary ;-)21:39
godbyk#topic Editing phase21:39
godbykOn to the editing phase!21:39
godbykHow are all of our wonderful editors doing?21:39
TonyPI have done U1 and IM21:40
hanniewelcome mkani21:40
TonyPBut Microblogging is a real problem21:40
hannieI have posponed the closing of the editors phase to this weekend, is that ok?21:41
TonyPGwibber has been dropped from 13.0421:41
cqfd93I've done Software Management and started working on  *Reading and composing mail21:41
hannieTonyP, does it need a lot of rewriting?21:41
godbykhannie: The original deadline for closing the editing phase is the 15th. Does that still work?21:41
hannieWhat has replaced gwibber, TonyP21:41
godbykTonyP: Is there a Gwibber replacement?21:42
TonyPhannie: Yes or dropping altogether21:42
mkaniI have completed the LibreOffice and Instant messaging chapters and pushed them across with screenshots. Proofreading has been completed.21:42
hanniegodbyk, originally it was April 8 I think21:42
TonyPgodbyk: its called FRIENDS21:42
godbykhannie: Ah, you're right. I pushed it a week later in my head, too.21:42
mkaniIf there are any further requirements for proofreading/editing please let me know.21:43
jconnettFor those editing Chapter 5, are you certain that the chapter is solid...without any declared authors?21:43
hanniecqfd93, I still see editing in progress. Are you almost finished?21:43
cqfd93yes, but if someone could proofread it...21:44
TonyPgodbyk: hannie: I cannot figure out Friends.  Its not a complete Gwibber replacement21:44
hanniecqfd93, it was proofread by David Pires, but he did not change anything21:44
mkaniI would be happy to proof read if necessary21:45
hannieTonyP, would it be sufficient to '%' the Gwibber part?21:45
godbykTonyP: Okay, it sounds like that Gwibber/Friends stuff will require quite a bit of work then.21:45
cqfd93I made a few changes21:45
cqfd93but it was already very good21:46
jconnettgodbyk: too bad, too, because the social aspect of any OS is so important these days.21:46
hanniecqfd93, are you talking about software management?21:46
TonyPhannie: godbyk: probably best to drop the microblogging section21:47
hannieTonyP, ay, the whole section?21:47
cqfd93hannie: yes21:47
TonyPhannie: godbyk: it someone can mention the Friends lens in the Dash21:48
godbykThe Friend lens should probably be mentioned in the Dash section (in chapter 2).21:48
jconnettIs the Friend lens installed by default? I don't remember.21:48
jconnettHome, Application, Files & Folders, Music, Photos, Video (absolutely SICK that I did that from memory!)21:49
TonyPLooks like it is.  I just put 13.04 on a USB and it was there21:49
tacorwinAlright everyone, I must leave now. Have a good morning/afternoon/day/evening/night!21:49
godbykjconnett: Nicely done! :-)21:50
hannieI have just opened raring beta in VB, but I do not see a friends lens21:50
tacorwin(dont know where everyone is located....)21:50
godbyktacorwin: Thanks for coming!21:50
tacorwinno problem! :)21:50
hanniebye tacorwin thanks for coming21:50
cqfd93bye tacorwin!21:50
TonyPhannie: is it a up to date version21:50
jconnettThere are 6 lens at the bottom of the Dash. I have no Friends lens.  I'll look again tonight after pulling the latest beta.21:50
mkaniI can't see a friends lense myself21:50
hannieTonyP, yes, I downloaded it yesterday21:50
godbykjconnett: Okay, thanks. If it's not there by default, we may need to see when it shows up.21:50
hannieTonyP, but I do not use Twitter or Facebook21:51
tacorwingoodbye. cqfd93: Get in touch with me about screenshots! <tacorwin@outlook.com>21:51
godbykDoes it show up after you've created accounts through Friends? If so, it can probably just be mentioned in the Microblogging section (if we manager to rewrite it in time)21:51
jconnettI'll own this for Chapter 2. Let me update tonight and see if it's there. If it is, then it'll be referenced in the manual in Chapter 2.21:51
TonyPI cannot seem to install Friends as such.21:52
godbykjconnett: Great, thanks! If it's not, let us know and we may put it in the microblogging section (if we don't just remove that section entirely).21:52
TonyPNot like Gwibber21:52
hanniethanks, jconnett21:52
godbykTonyP: Friends isn't installed by default?21:52
hanniewhen I type friends in the dash I get contacts21:53
mkaniJust a thouht but if htere are certain uncertainties regarding apps can't we add these as updates via a website dedicated to the manual21:53
hannieWelcome to Contacts!21:53
jconnettAccording to UbuntuUpdates, Friends has been deleted from the repository, and it is an installable app.21:54
godbykmkani: We can, but when we update the manual after we've released it, it causes problems for the translators.21:54
mkaniFair point...just an idea21:55
hanniejconnett, so it is not installed by default21:55
TonyPgodbyk: Friends is installed, but it says it is friends-server run from the command line21:55
godbykHmm.. okay, let's doing some digging on the Friends situation and post our notes to the mailing list.21:57
godbykIf Friends is installed by default, we should try to document it if we can.21:57
godbykIf it's not installed by default, then we can just remove the Microblogging section for this cycle.21:57
c7psounds reasonable to me21:58
TonyPAs microblogging is all about Gwibber, it should be removed21:58
mkaniWhen informing others of Ubuntu OS their main concern are viruses. How much of this is covered? As this is my first time on such a project this will be helpful for me too.21:58
godbykWe'll do some poking around during the next couple days and post our findings to the mailing list. We can make a final decision on Monday or Tuesday.21:58
godbykTonyP: Agreed. I'll take care of removing the Microblogging section for now.21:59
mkaniDue to the increase in social media and the fact it's for beginners, we need to ensure the users are aware of any ant-virus software or of any default security settings within Ubuntu.22:00
godbykmkani: Right now we say: "Many viruses designed to primarily target Windows-based systems to not affect Ubuntu systems."22:00
mkaniI understand but there is that concern from others I have spoken too. As an Ubuntu user mt22:00
godbykmkani: And in a side note: "Just because Ubuntu implements strong security by default doesn't mean the user can throw caution to the wind. Care should be taken when downloading files, opening email, and browsing the Internet. Using a good antivirus program is warranted."22:01
godbykmkani: And that's all we say at the moment.22:01
godbykAre there any other issues for the editing phase?22:02
hannieI have asked editors via the list to update the spreadsheet, which they did. Thanks for that.22:03
godbykWill all the editing be complete by 15 April (Monday)?22:04
hannieIf not all editorial work has been done yet, I would appreciate it if editors can say when they will have finished their editorial work on the spreadsheet22:04
godbykWe're running out of buffer in our schedule. :-)22:05
hanniegodbyk, do you know who is going to do the indexing?22:05
godbykI'd like to get a public draft released soon so we can have others help with proofreading and get public comments.22:05
hannieteolemon, welcome22:05
mkaniI will update spreadsheet  as soon as22:05
teolemonhi hannie22:06
godbykhannie: I think we have anyone specifically assigned to it. We tend to do it as we write/edit so far.22:06
hanniegodbyk, the proofreading can begin as far as I'm concerned22:06
godbykAre there any objections to my posting a public draft of our manual on Monday to solicit comments and proofreading from the public?22:06
mkaniThat would be great, if there are to be comments, what will be te cut off?22:07
TonyPhannie: I will try and have another look at Instant Messaging as thing are changing there as well22:07
godbykmkani: We'll accept comments until 22 April.22:07
godbykAfter 22 April, we'll need to have everything finished so I can start doing the final edits.22:07
hannieTonyP, if you can do that, it would be great22:07
godbykthen we'll be ready to publish the manual on 25 April.22:07
hanniegodbyk, will you publish the draft on crocodoc?22:08
jconnettI think we should release the manual to proof on Monday, even if it's missing a few last-minute elements.22:08
godbykhannie: Yes. I think that's worked pretty well for us in the past.22:08
godbykjconnett: I agree. We'll spend this week finishing the on-going editing and also incorporating comments/edits from the public.22:09
hanniegodbyk, is it necessary to wait until editors have finished before you put it on crocodoc?22:09
godbykhannie: Not really. Except that other people may notice the parts we're still working on and comment about it. :-)22:10
jconnettCrocodoc doesn't allow edits by users, just notations, right?22:10
godbykjconnett: Correct.22:10
godbykjconnett: So we have to periodically skim through the annotations and incorporate the changes into our files.22:11
hanniegodbyk, do we have to send an email about the indexing?22:11
godbykjconnett: I periodically upload a fresh draft to crocodoc, too.22:11
mkaniIf the cut off is sunday taking into account time differences and so forth becuase if put out for comments on Monday, others may still be working on it22:11
jconnettThen I don't see an issue with releasing a version to Crocodoc while the "real" version is being worked on.22:11
godbykhannie: I wouldn't worry about the indexing at this point.22:11
godbykhannie: If you find things that should be indexed, feel free to add them.22:11
hanniegodbyk, ok22:11
godbykhannie: (We've never really had dedicated indexers. It's been mostly a dream on my part. ;-))22:11
hannieIt takes time to become an expert ;)22:12
godbykOkay, are there any other issues that anyone would like to discuss?22:13
hanniegodbyk, when the raring manual is released, will it be ready for translators on LP as well?22:13
godbykhannie: Yes.22:13
cqfd93then I can put on my translator and bug hunter hat! ;-)22:14
godbykcqfd93: Hey, you're supposed to be finding bugs *now*.  ;-)22:14
jconnettI have no other issues.22:14
cqfd93I know!22:14
jconnett...well, now issues THIS group can help with ! :)22:15
godbykjconnett: Ha!22:15
godbykOkay, then. I officially call this meeting to a close!22:15
meetingologyMeeting ended Sat Apr 13 22:15:26 2013 UTC.22:15
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-04-13-21.03.moin.txt22:15
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-04-13-21.03.html22:15
godbykYou're all welcome to hang around and chat more, if you like, of course.22:15
cqfd93for me, it's time to go to bed22:16
hanniethe meeting is closed, but I want to say to all editors: thank you all for the work you are doing for the manual22:16
mkaniAll I can say is that it's been great to be a part of this experience, learnt a lot22:16
cqfd93Bye everybody!22:16
godbykThanks for coming, everyone!22:16
TonyPbye all22:16
mkaniMy pleasure and sorry for the lt connection22:16
hannieGood night/afternoon to everyone.22:16
c7pbye all !22:16
c7pi'ld like to stay but i'm very tired22:17
mkanianyone left22:17
c7pgood night !22:17
CarstenGok, see you all22:18
CarstenGgood night.22:18
mkaniThanks for all the support that everyone gave22:18
hanniebye everyone22:22
mkanibye all22:25

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