[07:32] <MartijnVdS> good morning everyone!
[07:47] <dwatkins> hiya MartijnVdS
[09:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:47] <Lil-|^Red> Meanwhile in South Korea http://www.youtube.com/user/officialpsy?feature=inp-lt-psy-us
[09:58] <brobostigon> wow, on my eeepc, while doing apt-get update, the load have gone over 105.
[10:07] <brobostigon> just went down to under 20, very weird behaviour.
[10:56] <NET||abuse> hi folks, i have a really irritating with my ethernet connection
[10:57]  * dwatkins assumes NET||abuse accidentally a word
[10:57] <jacobw> :)
[10:57] <NET||abuse> huh?
[10:58] <NET||abuse> :P my nick is an old joke from #perl that stuck
[10:58] <NET||abuse> anyway,
[10:58] <NET||abuse> or do you mean i forgot a word in my question?
[10:58] <dwatkins> Yes, NET||abuse.
[10:58] <NET||abuse> well, doesn't matter, my connection detects that i plug in the wire.
[10:59] <NET||abuse> but on any given boot up, the dhcp never succeeds.
[10:59] <NET||abuse> i reboot andd it can work every second or third bootup
[10:59] <dwatkins> Does the card show up in lspci and is the module loaded for the card as shown in lsmod?
[11:00] <NET||abuse> ok, one sec
[11:00] <NET||abuse> lspci output is    00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 04)
[11:01] <NET||abuse> trying to find it in lsmod
[11:01] <dwatkins> also, does the card show up in ifconfig?
[11:01] <NET||abuse> yeh, it shows up in ifconfig
[11:02] <NET||abuse> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr d4:be:d9:10:84:a1   ... etc.
[11:02] <dwatkins> and if you disable and re-enable networking from the icon near the clock, does it work?
[11:02] <NET||abuse> anyway, on the gui side, the cable goes in. it starts dhcp searching.
[11:02] <NET||abuse> yeh, i've tried that.
[11:02] <NET||abuse> i disconnect the cable and the icon on the top bar notices
[11:03] <NET||abuse> i reconnect then it shows upthere too, and setarts to search but doesn't find it.
[11:03] <NET||abuse> i've tried the disconnect menu option before, i'll try it now again.
[11:05] <jacobw> What happens if you try to connect and disconnect to the wired network a few times?
[11:05] <popey> brobostigon: not weird, just io intensive on a machine with a slow storage device
[11:05] <NET||abuse> jacobw: tried it about 3 times already this boot.
[11:06] <brobostigon> popey: good point, yes. very true.
[11:06] <NET||abuse> the disconnect menu option and the reconnection eht0_auto option isn't working also
[11:10] <NET||abuse> diconnecting over and over, nothing
[11:11] <NET||abuse> damn, 6 times a charm
[11:11] <NET||abuse> i'm back without rebooting. hah,, what a pain in the ass
[11:13] <NET||abuse> thanks for the input.. wonder why it's so unreliable.
[11:17] <jacobw> It sounds like a network-manager problem
[11:21] <Myrtti> I swear to Gaia I'll buy that password notebook
[11:22]  * Myrtti stabs Keepass2 a little bit
[11:59] <ThomasM_> Hello everybody, i have strange problem by creating symlinks via udev rules on Ubuntu 12.10.
[12:00] <ThomasM_> This rules is working fine to create a symlink from a ttyACM device
[12:00] <ThomasM_> KERNEL=="ttyACM[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1ffb", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0089", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyServo"
[12:00] <ThomasM_> Now iw want to do the same for a ttyUSB device like an FTDI USB to TTL Converter
[12:01] <ThomasM_> KERNEL=="ttyUSB[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ATTRS{idVendor}=="0403", ATTRS{idProduct}=="6001", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyRoboClaw"
[12:01] <ThomasM_> but this rule doesn't work
[12:02] <ThomasM_> Then I tried a simpler rule like this:
[12:02] <ThomasM_> ATTRS{idVendor}=="0403", ATTRS{idProduct}=="6001", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyRoboClaw"
[12:04] <ThomasM_> but the created symlink links to  "ttyRoboClaw -> bus/usb/001/012" the bus instead of the original device path "ttyUSB0"
[12:05] <ThomasM_> I tried several rules but sometimes the rule isn't created and sometimes it i created but points to the bus
[12:05] <ThomasM_> for the ttyACM devices everyting works fine
[12:06] <ThomasM_> also rules work for video devices linke this:
[12:06] <ThomasM_> KERNEL=="video[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ATTRS{idVendor}=="5986", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0361", SYMLINK+="video-cam0"
[12:06] <ThomasM_> but like i told you not for the ttyUSB device, its very stange for me at this point...#
[12:07] <ThomasM_> maybe someone of you have a solution for me
[12:07] <ThomasM_> Thank you
[12:19] <ThomasM_> second client I am still here :)
[13:36] <ali1234> how do i display the build dependencies of a package if they are already installed?
[14:04] <directhex> ali1234, apt-cache build-dep packagename?
[14:09] <ali1234> E: Invalid operation build-dep
[14:17] <directhex> apt-cache not apt-get
[14:18] <AlanBell> that isn't an apt-cache command
[14:18] <ali1234> yes, that is what i typed. it does not work
[14:18] <AlanBell> apt-get -s build-dep gedit
[14:19] <AlanBell> perhaps
[14:19] <AlanBell> but that probably doesn't help if you have them installed
[14:19] <ali1234> yeah that only shows the ones that are not currently installed
[14:19] <ali1234> what i did was apt-get source and then look at debian/control
[14:21] <directhex> oh, hang on
[14:21] <directhex> it's showsrc
[14:22] <directhex> doesn't list version requirements though
[14:22] <directhex> and the formatting is generally hard to machine-parse
[14:22] <ali1234> that's ok, i don't want to parse it and i don't want really care about ersions as i know the ones in the repos work
[14:23] <ali1234> i'm on a system with no -src repos configured and i want to build a package. so i can't apt-get build-dep... so i need to install dependencies manually
[15:05] <dwatkins> hey peeps, has anyone installed 12.10 on a uefi motherboard recently? We're getting a grub prompt, so I assume we need to follow this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1599293
[15:05] <dwatkins> any suggestions welcome, though
[15:09] <dwatkins> !uefi
[15:09] <jacobw> I have installed on UEFI motherboard, and there no difference to an non UEFI motherboard
[15:10] <dwatkins> hmm, i wonder why we're getting the grub prompt, then
[15:10] <magpie> what's the problem dwatkins?
[15:11] <dwatkins> we get a grub prompt booting from usb to install 12.10 amd64
[15:13] <jpds> dwatkins: Hit tab.
[15:13] <dwatkins> we get a list of commands, jpds
[15:13] <dwatkins> 'boot' fails
[15:13] <jpds> dwatkins: live?
[15:14] <dwatkins> trying the procedure in my link above fails at the point of loading the loopback module, saying we should disable secure boot
[15:14] <dwatkins> so i guess we should do that ;)
[15:14] <magpie> when did it start happening?
[15:15] <dwatkins> yes, trying to install from unetbootin-created usb device from the 12.10 64-bit iso
[15:15] <dwatkins> just trying to find the secure boot settings
[15:19] <magpie> did you format it to fat32 and set bios to boot from usb yeah?
[15:20] <magpie> @ dwatkins
[15:22] <directhex> unetbootin doesn't support uefi
[15:22] <dwatkins> yay we have a kernel :D
[15:22] <directhex> it has not created a uefi-capable install medium
[15:22] <dwatkins> followed the instructions in my link, we now have a gui
[15:28] <magpie> dwatkins did your format to fat32?
[15:28] <magpie> you
[15:45] <dwatkins> magpie: yes, the usb is vfat
[15:45] <dwatkins> only problem now is that grub hasn't recognised that windows 7 is on the first hard disk, so we can boot windows 7 manually from the uefi, but when powering the machine on it goes straight into Ubuntu with no grub menu
[15:46] <dwatkins> I suspect this may be because we didn't select the option to mount the partition on which windows 7 is installed during partitioning, not sure though.
[15:46] <magpie> oh
[15:47] <dwatkins> i.e. ubuntu installed ok, windows 7 still boots manually, but grub never shows the menu
[15:47] <magpie> dwatkins i think you may have forgot to change ur bios setting back?
[15:49] <dwatkins> aha which setting do we need to change back, magpie? the secure boot one?
[15:51] <dwatkins> looks like there are three boot records to choose from, two of which identify themselves as 'ubuntu', so presumably one is grub, the other is the newly installed OS
[15:51] <magpie> ii'm not 100% certain because I haven;t had dual boot for a long time but I believe you would need to change it from the usb back to your hard disk
[15:51] <kvarley> Is there an editor that will let me print my code with syntax highlighting and indentation?
[15:51] <magpie> then after that it should come up with the promt you need
[15:51] <dwatkins> we removed the usb stick to avoid possible confusion
[15:51] <dwatkins> kvarley: vi with syntax on?
[15:52] <magpie> grub is the ubuntu boot
[15:52]  * kvarley hates vi
[15:52] <magpie> loadeer
[15:52] <magpie> yeah remove the usb
[15:52] <kvarley> dwatkins: Any GUI apps?
[15:52] <magpie> reboot and press f12 (usually)
[15:52] <dwatkins> magpie: aha, it's now showing grub's menu, although it didn't detect windows 7
[15:52] <magpie> then it will have a list of drives u can boot from as your primary boot
[15:53] <magpie> grub won't detect it
[15:53] <magpie> grub is the ubuntu bootloader
[15:53] <dwatkins> I mean when the menu.lst was created during install
[15:53] <magpie> iit should be asking u whether u want to boot into grub or whatever windows bootloader is
[15:54] <magpie> have u booted into the bios yet?
[15:54] <magpie> u need to go to the bios to check ur primary boot disk
[15:56] <magpie> there is a much easier way to do this though with this http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/windows-installer
[15:56] <dwatkins> no, grub doesn't have windows in the boot manu
[15:56] <dwatkins> *menu
[15:56] <magpie> grub is not the same thing as the bios
[15:57] <dwatkins> indeed
[15:58] <magpie> assuming u partitioned ur hard drive and grub is on one partition with windows on the other yes?
[15:58] <dwatkins> pretty much - two physical disks, windows 7 on the first
[15:59] <magpie> oh
[15:59] <magpie> well i think the problem is simpler then
[15:59] <magpie> you have two seperate hard drives each with an install on them?
[15:59] <dwatkins> yeah
[16:00] <magpie> ur bios is booting into one because you have set it to primary (or that is the default)
[16:01] <magpie> I am not sure how you can set neither as default but I imagine there is a way. What make is ur motherboard, do you know?
[16:02] <dwatkins> I imagine we probably need to re-run grub-update and get it to detect Windows 7 so it can add it to the menu.lst
[16:03] <dwatkins> or update-grub
[16:03] <magpie> i would check the bios settings first
[16:04] <magpie> it's probably ur primary hard disk set to the hard disk with the ubuntu install on it
[16:06] <dwatkins> yeah, we had to change the order to get the grub menu
[16:11] <dwatkins> I'm guessing we need to install grub to /dev/sda and hope it automatically detects Windows 7
[16:12]  * directhex waits for melted computer
[16:12] <magpie> was it not detecting windows when the windows bootloader was default you mean dwatkins?
[16:13] <directhex> installing grub to a partition header is a BIOS/MBR thing.
[16:13] <directhex> it explicitly does not do anyting, and may make your system unbootable, if you're on UEFI-only boot.
[16:13] <directhex> and the model with UEFI is *not* to boot windows from grub. that's not how it works
[16:14] <directhex> the model is to hit the "select boot device" button, typically F12, and pick "Windows Boot Manager" rather than "ubuntu" from the list
[16:14] <magpie> echo directhex
[16:16] <directhex> you can change which EFI application is the default with efibootmgr
[16:19] <directhex> if the system is booting grub before giving you the chance to hit the "select boot device" menu, then you have UEFI Fast Boot enabled (which skips a lot of initialization and jumps straight to the default application)
[16:24]  * directhex wonders if dwatkins has read any of the above, or if he's facing the charred remains of his computer
[16:27] <dwatkins> directhex: heh, just been looking in to what's in /boot/efi/efi
[16:28] <directhex> presumably a bootx64.efi (windows boot manager)
[16:28] <debasheez> hello
[16:29] <dwatkins> thanks directhex, this starts to make sense now
[16:29] <dwatkins> there's no 'press F12' option that I'm aware of on this motherboard, but perhaps it's obfuscated
[16:29] <debasheez> how can i make a usb bootable windows xp in ubuntu?
[16:30] <debasheez> will unet botin do?
[16:30] <directhex> dwatkins, maybe f2. there's definitely a key.
[16:30] <jacobw> debasheez: I don't think so
[16:30] <directhex> debasheez, i don't think so. i'm sure i've done it somehow, but it might have been with the MS utility in wine
[16:31] <debasheez> so how do i do that
[16:31] <directhex> but xp is, like, 12 years old. it's not designed for fancy things
[16:31] <dwatkins> debasheez: no, unetbootin doesn't support XP, there are tools from Microsoft which will allow you to create a bootable USB device with XP, if I remember correctly.
[16:31] <dwatkins> maybe just Windows 7/Vista, I've not used it
[16:31] <debasheez> how can i create it then/
[16:32] <debasheez> my xp is too banged yp
[16:32] <debasheez> it does not even connect to internet....half the things dont work
[16:32] <dwatkins> debasheez: google ' usb boot  boot windows '?
[16:32] <dwatkins> oops, two 'boot' but you get the idea
[16:33] <debasheez> yeah i got it
[16:33] <dwatkins> ah ok, no idea how you'd do this without internet access, I don't think it can be done from within Ubuntu.
[16:33] <dwatkins> you could just use Ubuntu...
[16:33] <jacobw> You can do it from Powershell or cmd.exe, and there's Windows applications that can automate the process.
[16:34] <debasheez> which one
[16:34] <jacobw> I don't think you can do it without Windows utilities/helpers.
[16:34] <debasheez> yeah
[16:34] <jacobw> WinToFlash
[16:34] <debasheez> will wine do the trick?
[16:36] <jacobw> I don't know
[16:36] <debasheez> hmm lemme try
[16:36] <debasheez> the primary bootloader is grub
[16:37] <debasheez> then i get an option to choose windows or ubuntu
[16:37] <dwatkins> What's actually the problem with XP, debasheez? Virus? Malware? BSOD?
[16:38] <debasheez> i guess its either a virus or a malware
[16:38] <dwatkins> there are antivirus bootable images from the likes of AVG, I believe, possibly Symantex too
[16:39] <dwatkins> Symantec, even.
[16:39] <debasheez> i dont think the anti virus will help much
[16:39] <debasheez> the right click does not work even
[16:39] <dwatkins> What are they symptoms, debasheez?
[16:39] <dwatkins> *the
[16:40] <debasheez> well right click does not work
[16:40] <debasheez> network properties does not open
[16:40] <dwatkins> that could just be a hardware problem
[16:41] <directhex> sounds like the install is just bonged
[16:41] <directhex> it happens
[16:41] <directhex> windows degrades
[16:41] <debasheez> and i let my pc be used my noobs
[16:41] <debasheez> plugged in their infected usb
[16:42] <debasheez> and slowly the windows is unusable
[16:43] <debasheez> let me reboot and try installing it via win 2 flash
[16:43] <debasheez> wine does not seem to work here
[16:45] <jacobw> n00bs, indeed.
[16:45] <brobostigon> new Dr Who bbc1 6pm,
[16:46] <Myrtti> sounds like a good time to go grocery shopping then
[16:47] <brobostigon> ah.
[16:47] <Myrtti> iPlayer ftw!
[16:47] <brobostigon> :)
[16:48] <jacobw> Whoop whoop
[16:49] <magpie> can I make a suggestion?
[16:49] <brobostigon> no spoilers?
[16:49] <magpie> don't worry about windows you don't really need it :)
[16:57] <dwatkins> looks like my friend is happy to just manually select the disk from the bios/efi
[16:58] <directhex> the application, not the disk :D
[16:59] <directhex> booting "a disk" or "a partition" is a MBR thing
[17:01] <dwatkins> ah i see, thanks - i have a lot to learn/update
[17:01] <dwatkins> bbl, catching the bus
[17:06]  * popey fixes bug 1168160
[17:07] <brobostigon> lol
[17:14] <directhex> dwatkins, basically, with BIOS, when booting the computer, there's 448 bytes (iirc) of 16-bit 8086 code near the start of the disk drive, which is executed on your 16-bit 8086. this code may contain just enough code to load more code from somewhere else on disk, or a redirect to another 448 bytes of 16 bit 8086 machine code on the header of a partition (rather than the header of an entire drive)
[17:21] <AlanBell> W: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring-security/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages  Cannot initiate the connection to fe80::211:3bff:fe17:c2d5:8000 (fe80::211:3bff:fe17:c2d5). - connect (22: Invalid argument)
[17:22] <AlanBell> why is it doing ipv6?
[17:23] <AlanBell> apt-get update isn't working because it wants to do v6 connections it seems, I can ping stuff and it pings the normal IP address just fine
[17:24] <shauno> I don't believe security.ubuntu.com has an ipv6 address.  and it's certainly not fe80::, that's link local (eg, it's you, or the other end of the wire, and nothing else)
[17:24] <AlanBell> oh
[17:25] <shauno> oh, they do hvae ipv6 now .. that's news to me.  but the link-local bit stands
[17:26] <AlanBell> ah, might be squid-deb-proxy getting upset about something
[17:27] <AlanBell> yup, it was
[17:29] <AlanBell> how do I tell apport to just let things crash and not be annoying?
[17:30] <AlanBell> ah, /etc/default/apport
[17:31]  * dwatkins clicks 'restart current programme' on iplayer
[17:32] <dwatkins> directhex: ah yes, the two stages of grub, I assume
[17:33] <jacobw> AlanBell: Yep
[19:06] <bigcalm_laptop> Good evening peeps
[19:06] <bigcalm_laptop> popey: mcping
[19:12] <mungbean> evening
[19:13] <mungbean> how was doctor whop compared to last week?
[19:13] <brobostigon> mungbean: miles better.
[19:13] <mungbean> last week getting 2/10
[19:14] <AlanBell> the singing one was dreadful
[19:14] <mungbean> yeah shockingly bad
[19:15] <mungbean> i didnt watch a whole series once when that tate cvame along
[19:16] <AlanBell> I like Clara
[19:16] <brobostigon> billie piper has my preference.
[19:17] <mungbean> really?
[19:17] <brobostigon> yes.
[19:17] <mungbean> that was when the writing got stupid
[19:17] <mJayk> Afternoon all
[19:17] <mungbean> love/messiah/cap jack
[19:17] <directhex> pfft
[19:17] <directhex> the best companion was Jamie McCrimmon.
[19:17] <mungbean> the bimbo boy
[19:18] <AlanBell> River Song was also very good, much better than Amy
[19:18] <mungbean> i just tried to open an easter egg and failed
[19:18] <directhex> Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart?
[19:19] <AlanBell> I remember him from the books, never watched those ones
[19:19] <AlanBell> that was the doctor that had the intertial damping car
[19:19] <AlanBell> bessie I think
[19:19] <mungbean> i joined love film purely for dr who reasons
[19:20] <mungbean> theres a cool cybermen one wher they lost 2 episodes and animated them
[19:20] <mungbean> but really well
[19:20] <directhex> they basically burned most of the second doctor
[19:20] <directhex> to save storage space
[19:22] <mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invasion_(Doctor_Who)
[19:23] <mJayk> mungbean: Can you get love film on Android ?
[19:24] <mungbean> this was 7 yrs ago and exhausted their suiuply of dr who dvd in the post
[19:24] <mungbean> then i cancelled after no more left to watch that i hadnt seen
[19:24] <mJayk> ah okdokay
[19:53] <lorna> Anyone around tonight?
[19:53] <bigcalm_laptop> Not really
[19:54] <bigcalm_laptop> Evening anyway :)
[19:54] <lorna> Evening. How are you?
[19:54] <bigcalm_laptop> Wishing for longer weekends. You?
[19:55] <lorna> Looking forward to a fairly settled Sunday.
[19:55] <lorna> Have you any plans for the rest of the weekend?
[19:58] <lorna> Evening
[19:58] <Lil-|^Red> OT | FYI Linode admin P/words need updating BTW. :::: || http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/12/security-notice-linode-manager-password-reset/ ||
[19:58] <Lil-|^Red> leaves.
[20:30] <mungbean> yes, this dr who is an improvement on last week
[20:31] <mungbean> how was the lanuage transation working, tardis was not in vicinity?
[20:33] <ali1234> same way it works on star trek even when they are not on the ship
[20:33] <mungbean> usually they say, ooh tardis is nearby, the language matrix works
[20:34] <brobostigon> ali1234: those are built after TOS into the communicators. in TOS they used to be seperate devices.
[20:35]  * AlanBell thought it was the bable fish
[20:36]  * brobostigon walks around moping like marvin.
[20:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: i do believe it is babel fish.
[20:37] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i do believe it is babel fish.
[20:37] <brobostigon> sorry ali1234
[20:39] <mungbean> also why do daleks have a strong accent but the russians have english accent
[20:39] <brobostigon> lol, same problem, why dont the daleks speal
[20:40] <brobostigon> lol, same problem, why dont the daleks speak dals spoke?
[20:40] <brobostigon> the same language,
[20:41] <brobostigon> same reasoning, why doesnt davros neither.?
[20:42] <brobostigon> although i think davros was a kaled.
[20:49] <dwatkins> things weren't being translated last week
[20:49] <dwatkins> well, some things - the barking
[20:57] <mungbean> and allons-y
[20:58] <mungbean> maybee dr whitelists some words
[20:59] <mungbean> or maybe theres millions of holes in the plot every week
[21:00] <mungbean> but they get cute assistants to dazzle the people who might notice
[21:00] <dwatkins> I don't mind little translation issues, perhaps the barking was an exception somehow, or the Tardis had never encountered it before. Plot holes are annoying, though.
[21:01] <mungbean> i cant help thinking that the best way to get measles is to stand in a queue with other unvaccinated kids
[21:01] <dwatkins> Hence chicken pox parties.
[21:02] <mungbean> needed a wee since 8pm, but sleeping baby might wake as shes on my lap..#dadproblems
[21:02] <dwatkins> aww
[21:03] <mungbean> all i can do is surf and watch tv
[21:03] <dwatkins> I thought kids slept through anything.
[21:03] <dwatkins> There's a massive continuity failure in the film The Punisher - he gets shot, but then later on his t-shirt is fine.
[21:03] <mungbean> only when the bottle aint finished
[21:03] <dwatkins> Perhaps he has a wardrobe full of them.
[21:04] <mungbean> in a recent dr who episode, they drove out of the tardis on a motorbike/harley
[21:04] <dwatkins> yeah, that was cool
[21:04] <mungbean> then as they drove away the door was shut
[21:04] <mungbean> but noboydy closed it
[21:04] <dwatkins> I noticed that, he's closed the door by clicking his fingers in the past, though.
[21:04] <dwatkins> He should have done that then.
[21:04] <mungbean> they stayed on the doc the whole time
[21:04] <dwatkins> indeed
[21:04] <mungbean> yeah
[21:05] <dwatkins> Just a bit of a continuity failure.
[21:05] <mungbean> yeah spoils it for me
[21:05] <mungbean> and for the missis cos then i;m moaning
[21:05] <dwatkins> I tend to make up some reason it happened as above, and move on.
[21:05] <mungbean> lol
[21:05] <mungbean> the main reason is cos its a kids programme
[21:06] <dwatkins> this is also true, yes
[21:06] <mungbean> everyone knows the sonic screwdriver fixes it every week
[21:06] <dwatkins> Yeah, and he can magically read all sorts of information off it and control it without it needing a keyboard.
[21:07] <mungbean> they do have a habit of finding the most attractive girls on telly
[21:07] <dwatkins> I have two sonic screwdrivers, I used one to put a wardrobe together, but they don't tell me how far above or below sea level I am, sa.
[21:07] <dwatkins> *sadly
[21:07] <mungbean> next it will be the countdown girly
[21:07] <dwatkins> haha, Carol would be great as a companion.
[21:08] <mungbean> my one is always out of charge when i need it most
[21:08] <mungbean> no, rachel is the CG now
[21:08] <dwatkins> oh righyt
[21:08] <mungbean> that wouls be funny though CV as dr who girl
[21:09] <dwatkins> :D
[21:12] <bigcalm> Yay, irssi proxy via firewall. Hope it stays safe
[21:12] <bigcalm> Anybody here use nut for UPS monitoring?
[21:14] <Lil-|^Red> OT | Could S -Ubuntu be called "Socotra" Release ?   ::: |   http://www.thecircumference.org/socotra-island      ::  Note:  Ignore if misguided. |
[21:14] <Lil-|^Red> leaves.
[21:14] <Laney> O_O
[21:14] <Myrtti> so random.
[21:14] <dwatkins> Ubuntu Scotland
[21:16] <mungbean> nahm they'll be wanting independence before long
[21:17] <mungbean> so excited at my new airbrush delivery, have zero time to use it :(
[21:22] <StevenR> bigcalm: I used apcupsd. Was dead simple. Even wrote a script to put it into nagios :)
[21:23] <bigcalm> StevenR: I've used apcupsd with APC upses. My current UPS is by Belkin, hence needing another solution. Nut seems to support it but I'm having trouble
[21:27]  * popey boggles
[21:29] <StevenR> ah
[21:29]  * bigcalm googles
[21:29]  * Laney gobbles
[21:31] <bigcalm> This is confusing
[21:33]  * dwatkins goggles
[21:33]  * mungbean wobbles
[21:33]  * dwatkins dabbles
[21:37] <bigcalm> So, any UPS monitor systems that work with Belkin UPSes?
[21:38] <popey> what do you use a ups for?
[21:38] <popey> desktop?
[21:39] <bigcalm> Microserver, cable modem, router, desktop
[21:39] <popey> you get a lot of power cuts?
[21:39] <bigcalm> popey: no, but it only takes one to really tick you off
[21:40] <bigcalm> Using the grill has the chance of throwing the power. So I have to shut everything down just in case
[21:41]  * popey reboots into 12.04
[21:42] <mungbean> i used belkin UPS as door stops before
[21:43] <mungbean> they didn't work as UPS
[21:46] <dwatkins> I'm overdue a power cut.
[21:46] <dwatkins> I live in a block of flats that was built in the 1890s, I'm amazed I can get fast internets at-all, let alone consistent power.
[21:54] <mungbean> i just watched a video of a walrus doing situps
[21:54] <mungbean> time to finish my internet for the day
[22:01] <bigcalm> Rebooting helped
[22:09] <dwatkins> My home server has a built-in UPS - it's a netbook ;)
[22:09] <popey> gnnnn
[22:09] <popey> bug 1167019
[22:09] <popey> _so_ annoying
[22:11]  * Lil-|^Red draws his pillow at : penguin42 ,& the angry mob . [OT] http://youtu.be/cOIXmhBh1rY?t=2s 
[22:11] <Lil-|^Red> boom \o/
[22:12] <popey> that's getting as annoying
[22:12] <shauno> who broke him?
[22:13] <mungbean> popey: had a similar bug on centrino 6230 with certain APs
[22:13] <mungbean> ended up with a workaroud that disabling wifi power saving via powertop fixed it \o.
[22:13] <popey> hmm
[22:13]  * popey tries that
[22:13] <mungbean> although it was only manifested on certain APs
[22:14] <popey> this never used to be an issue
[22:14] <mungbean> our work wifi is all aruba controllers. when they upgraded their firmware i \o/
[22:14] <popey> got worse with 13.04 kernels
[22:14] <mungbean> i'm suffering a gpu lockup issue that loads of people getting
[22:14] <popey> wireless power saving is already off it seems
[22:14] <mungbean> bug 1140716
[22:15] <mungbean> gone from system lockup->hard reboot required, to 10 sec GPU hang, and then recover working
[22:15] <mungbean> after installed 3.5 kernel
[22:19] <penguin42> very few people seem to really understand that stuff
[22:22] <mungbean> cute feature in chrome. start typing ebay.co.uk in the url bar, then press tab while doing it
[22:22] <mungbean> e.g type eb-tab-kindle
[22:29] <popey>    mungbean i think you're right
[22:29] <popey> i might try 12.04 with the older kernel
[22:30] <popey> looks like 12.04 shipped with 3.2..
[22:32]  * popey looks for a 12.04 iso
[22:33] <popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/ wins
[22:33] <popey> maybe not
[22:33] <popey> 12.04.2 there
[22:33] <penguin42> popey: It's surprisingly hard to find iso's on ubuntu.com these days
[22:34] <popey> even  http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/ has 12.04.1
[22:34] <Laney> old-releases.ubuntu.com
[22:34] <popey> oh, no it doesnt
[22:34] <popey> it lies
[22:35] <popey> it says .1 at the top
[22:35]  * popey wgets http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/ubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso while network is working
[22:36] <penguin42> I would appreciate it if you could get someone to fix it
[22:37] <popey> well, anyone could do what I'm doing
[22:37] <popey> trying to find out at what kernel version it broke
[22:38] <penguin42> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/ might help
[22:38] <penguin42> popey: Yeh, but finding the isos is way too hard these days
[22:38] <popey> yeah, been doing that
[22:40] <dwatkins> ooh, I can boot my Mac from USB, that wasn't possible with Ubuntu before afaik.
[22:41] <dwatkins> It got very warm whilst I was typing in insmod commands to the grub prompt.
[22:41] <popey> trying to just find an old iso which actually works before updating
[22:41]  * popey dd's an iso to usb
[22:42] <dwatkins> don't forget the bs
[22:43] <popey> why?
[22:45] <shauno> I'm pretty sure the bs option is only there to annoy bsd users :/
[22:46] <penguin42> popey: Without bb you end up doing 512byte read/writes and it's slow as heck
[22:46] <penguin42> popey: Use bs=1M and it speeds up nicely
[22:47] <popey> 732213248 bytes (732 MB) copied, 267.068 s, 2.7 MB/s
[22:47]  * popey reboots into retrobuntu
[22:48] <shauno> annoying trivia .. gnu's dd takes bs=1M, and complains 1m isn't a number.  bsd's dd takes bs=1m, and complains 1M isn't a number.
[22:48] <penguin42> oh that's annoying
[22:49] <penguin42> shauno: Submit patches for both?
[22:49] <shauno> thanks to some variation of murphy's law, I'm positive I get the wrong case more often than I don't
[22:50] <penguin42> well yeh, if you have a pair of confusing things like that you're bound to
[22:50]  * popey uses Linux ubuntu 3.2.0-23-generic for a bit
[22:51] <Seeker`> penguin42: patches to both to swap them round?
[22:52] <popey> hah
[22:52] <penguin42> Seeker`: Haha no!
[22:52] <penguin42> Seeker`: To let you use either m or M on either; of course they'll each object that the other is wrong
[22:52] <Seeker`> just to really confuse the people that have currnetly managed to remember which way round it is :P
[22:53]  * Seeker` ponders getting up / staying up to watch the F1 at 6am
[22:53] <penguin42> 6am doesn't happen on Sundays
[22:54] <Seeker`> heh
[22:54] <Seeker`> it might do for F1
[22:54] <Seeker`> followed by a looooooong nap
[22:54]  * popey installs from one usb stick to another
[22:54]  * popey installs using btrfs for the crack
[22:55] <popey> ubiquity crashed
[22:55] <penguin42> 12.04 you're using? (not .1 or .2 ?)
[22:55]  * dwatkins credits popey 
[22:56] <penguin42> I think you're supposed to be able to put the old harrdware layer on the newer 12.04
[22:56] <popey> yes, 12.04
[22:57] <mungbean> when everyone's on btrfs maybe ubuntu can have better snapshotting / system point in time restores
[22:57] <penguin42> popey: Yeh ok, I doubt you'll get much excitement for anyone to fix it in plain 12.04
[22:57] <popey> thats not the goal
[22:58] <popey> the goal is to find when it broke
[22:58] <penguin42> nod
[22:58] <popey> i want to start from a working machine
[22:58] <mungbean> which is the way to find the bug
[22:58] <penguin42> popey: I'd just roll the kernel back (although they might also want the firmware rolling back?)
[22:58] <mungbean> aren't there old kernels kicking around on your grub list?
[22:59] <popey> penguin42: i know, thats not what i want to do
[22:59] <popey> i want to start from a working point
[23:00] <penguin42> ah, ok
[23:00] <popey> hmm, ubiquity crashed formatting ext4 too
[23:00] <popey> this is not good
[23:00] <popey> ubi-usersetup crashed
[23:00] <penguin42> popey: Try 12.04.1
[23:00] <popey> its still formatting and copying files
[23:01] <ali1234> if you want to find where it broke why are you not testing mainline kernels?
[23:01] <mungbean> popey is the 1 man wrecking ball
[23:01] <popey> "try again" worked
[23:01] <popey> ali1234: i will
[23:02] <popey> once I get a known good state
[23:02] <popey> which 12.04 seems to be so far
[23:02] <ali1234> bisecting across branches isn't fun
[23:03] <ali1234> you'll need to go back to the 3.2.x that the ubuntu kernel is based on and test that
[23:03] <popey> yup
[23:04] <popey> although getting significant packet loss with 3.2, but not enough to drop my ssh connection it seems
[23:04] <popey>  Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
[23:04] <popey>  1. 192.168.1.1                      33.4%   887    7.6   8.4   4.0 131.1   9.7
[23:04] <mungbean> humour me by checking the wifi power saving again?
[23:05] <popey> i have an mtr running. and its showing packet loss going up, but this ssh session is surviving
[23:05] <popey> mungbean: can i check that without powertop?
[23:05] <mungbean> hmm
[23:06] <popey> i dont want to apt-get anything while ubiquity is installing
[23:06] <popey> (on a live cd)
[23:06] <ali1234> you can poke around in /sys
[23:06] <ali1234> if you can figure out what the numbers and letters mean
[23:06] <popey> heh
[23:06] <mungbean> maybe iwconfig
[23:06] <mungbean> iw wlan0 set power_save on
[23:06] <popey> i dont want to set, i want to query surely?
[23:07] <popey>           Power Management:off
[23:07] <popey> that?
[23:07] <popey> (from iwconfig)
[23:07] <mungbean> off for me, let me check powertop agrees
[23:08] <popey> I'll reboot to 13.04 in a bit when this install finishes to see what the setting is there
[23:08] <mungbean> powertop says "BAD" so seems to agree PS is off
[23:08] <popey> thats what it said for me earlier
[23:11] <popey> oh dear. ubiquity shows tweets with &amp; instead of &
[23:12] <dwatkins> Thaat's just &lt;silly&gr;
[23:12] <penguin42> why does ubiquity show tweets at all?
[23:12] <popey> because its the last slide
[23:12] <popey> nothing else to look at, lets promote ubuntu :D
[23:19] <SavageWolf> Hmm... People, what is your "impulsive first impression" of my username handle thing?
[23:20] <popey> Reminds me of an old sinclair spectrum game
[23:20] <popey> but the name escapes me
[23:20] <popey> guess my brain is mixing it up with SabreWulf
[23:20] <SavageWolf> I keep thinking it's too "violent" or something... o_O
[23:20] <popey> change it to SavagePony
[23:21] <SavageWolf> Also, the input field seems to have bad kerning...
[23:21] <mungbean> savagepond
[23:21] <mungbean> by bug byte if i recall
[23:22] <popey> also there was a gave made by Savage something.. might just have been Savage
[23:22] <popey> which had giant sprites
[23:22] <popey> very colourful
[23:22] <popey> (for a speccy)
[23:23] <popey> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0004353
[23:23] <popey> bingo
[23:23] <mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlORNVnhmko
[23:23] <SavageWolf> I never grew up with any of those games consoles computer things, annoyingly.
[23:25] <SavageWolf> Anyway, I worry that my username will give a bad "first impression" about me, and stuff like that. Especially to future potential employers and such like.
[23:25] <SavageWolf> Since I use this name for everything.
[23:25] <popey> is it your email address & IM too ?
[23:26] <popey> i.e. is it on your CV?
[23:26] <shauno> heh, nothing cracks me up like seeing xXepicbaby94Xx@hotmail.com on a CV
[23:26] <popey> and do you care what a potential employer thinks? I mean, depends on what your job is really.
[23:26] <popey> if you were a game dev then not so much
[23:26] <SavageWolf> I have two email addresses, one of them is my real name which I use for "professional" things.
[23:26] <popey> as many as two!
[23:26] <popey> j/k
[23:27] <SavageWolf> And I intend to make games and whatnot.
[23:27] <SavageWolf> My personal website thing is essentially my username.
[23:28] <popey> \o/ install finished, reboot time
[23:28] <SavageWolf> Though I was thinking of making a portfolio site thing where I go "here is what I have made" which uses my real name.
[23:28] <mungbean> like github?
[23:28] <SavageWolf> I have a github, and my username there is "SavageWolf".
[23:29] <popey> \o/ back in 13.04
[23:29] <popey>           Power Management:off
[23:29] <popey> mungbean: ^
[23:29] <mungbean> was on by defaulr my centrino 6239
[23:29] <mungbean> 6230
[23:30] <popey> network droped a second after you said that
[23:30] <popey> drops for ~1 min
[23:31] <mungbean> oof
[23:31] <mungbean> dmesg says?
[23:31] <mungbean> turn off your microwave
[23:32] <SavageWolf> It would be so awesome if in syslog there was a line saying "Microwave detected, please turn off microwave before retrying.".
[23:32] <popey> got something in dmesg, not super useful
[23:32] <mJayk> You dont have a new neighbour do you ? using the same wireless channel
[23:34] <popey> it cant be that, i can boot to a different kernel and itsfine
[23:35] <mJayk> do the different kernels use different drivers @ all ?
[23:36] <popey> gah, this is pissing me off too much now. going to bed
[23:36] <popey> completely unusable, will test more tomorrow nn all
[23:42] <SavageWolf> I should stop being concerned with what others think of my username, I suppose.
[23:45] <shauno> introspection and 1am tends to end up in a bottle of whisky
[23:45] <SavageWolf> It's not introspection, it's paranoia.
[23:46] <SavageWolf> Anyway, I should go sleep, yes.
[23:51] <penguin42> Net Upgrade Size:       -155.98 MiB   hmm
[23:51] <penguin42> oops, wrong channel