[06:21] <magespawn> good morning all
[06:27] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[06:32] <magespawn> ahh Kilos good morning
[06:33] <Kilos> hi magespawn where were you last night?
[06:33] <Kilos> you missed the meet
[06:33] <magespawn> yes sorry, got familied.
[06:34] <magespawn> only got here at 21:00
[06:34] <magespawn> did have a look at the meeting notes
[06:38] <Kilos> good man
[06:38] <Kilos> these things do happen
[06:40] <magespawn> was a long day
[06:44] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday 
[06:45] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[06:45] <maiatoday> how did it go last night, I'll read the logs
[06:46] <Kilos> when well ty. we miss you. when you gonna join us again
[06:49] <Kilos> s/when/went
[06:59] <magespawn> gott go out bbl
[07:02] <Kilos> k
[07:02] <Kilos> hi HawkiesZA 
[07:02] <HawkiesZA> Morning Kilos!
[07:03] <maiatoday> mondays used to be a really good day for a meeting but now it is bad for me
[07:04] <Kilos> what is a good day maiatoday ?
[07:04] <maiatoday> Kilos, don't you wanna be the Ubuntu-za team contact?
[07:04] <Kilos> for you that is
[07:04] <maiatoday> No I don't want to move the meeting just for me.
[07:04] <maiatoday> tuesdays are better now, they used to be bad
[07:04] <maiatoday> but the tuesday thing moved to a monday
[07:04] <Kilos> sue them
[07:05] <maiatoday> It isn't difficult to do (the team contact thing) just read the odd email. You do so much here already it would just be an extension of what you do?
[07:05] <maiatoday> anyway just a thought
[07:05] <Kilos> just read mails?
[07:06] <Kilos> you do lots more
[07:06] <Kilos> I want my maia back
[07:06] <superfly> morning Kilos, magespawn, maiatoday
[07:06] <maiatoday> yeah the odd mail comes  through from launchpad and when we are up re-approval you have to be in the channel at the right time
[07:07] <maiatoday> I am around, I'll still blog and organise events from time to time
[07:07] <maiatoday> and you guys are so good at doing the meetings now, I am proud of you
[07:08] <Kilos> well if the fly and them will help me out so i dont make mistakes i can give it a tryout temporarily
[07:08] <Kilos> yeah we got nuvo and the monkey well trained
[07:08] <Kilos> hehe
[07:09] <Kilos> and the pro in the background
[07:09] <inetpro> really?
[07:09] <Kilos> morning inetpro 
[07:09] <inetpro> good mornings
[07:09] <Kilos> lol
[07:12] <inetpro> Kilos: I'm more in the back than in the ground these days
[07:13] <Kilos> all good inetpro ?
[07:13] <inetpro> all ok thanks, just struggling to keep up with everything
[07:14] <Kilos> and it seems to keep getting worse
[07:14] <inetpro> at least I'm still here
[07:14] <Kilos> yeah thank heavens for you oldies
[07:15] <Kilos> just you fly and the weed
[07:15] <Kilos> oh and nuvolari and magespawn 
[07:16] <Kilos> hi theblazehen trender 
[07:16] <Kilos> hi henk
[07:16] <Kilos> ai!
[07:16] <Kilos> hi henkj 
[07:20] <henkj> hi Kilos 
[07:24] <Kilos> hi Squirm Trix[a]r_za 
[07:29] <trender> morning
[07:30] <trender> damn phone woke me up pffft
[07:34] <trender> anybody alive ??
[07:34] <trender> maaz: morning
[07:34] <Maaz> Hello trender
[07:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning all
[07:35] <trender> ThatGraemeGuy mornin dude
[07:37] <trender> mornin squirm
[07:38] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy trender 
[07:38] <trender> mornin
[07:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> anyone have experience building debs and maintaining a PPA?
[07:48] <confluency> ThatGraemeGuy: tumbleweed does.
[08:19] <Squirm> lo
[08:19] <Squirm> am I alive?
[08:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> nope
[08:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> :P
[08:41] <Squirm> then being dead sucks
[08:41] <Squirm> :/
[08:41] <Squirm> you're not meant to work when you're dead...
[08:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> guess you must've ended up in hell :-o
[08:42] <Kilos> lol
[08:43] <Kilos> heavy night again Squirm ?
[08:46] <Squirm> no, my host seems to be being attacked
[08:46] <Squirm> only time I ever time out...
[08:46] <Squirm> well, only time my bnc ever times out
[08:47] <Squirm> and no, last night was fine.
[08:47] <Squirm> and it was a heavy night in terms of sleeping :/
[08:48] <Kilos> aw
[08:53] <Squirm> I have no idea why, but I woke up wet from head to toe in sweat.
[08:53]  * Squirm shrugs
[08:54] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: I do
[08:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> is it pretty easy to get up and running?
[09:06] <tumbleweed> ThatGraemeGuy, confluency: hi
[09:06]  * ThatGraemeGuy waves
[09:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> *busy* :-/
[09:22] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: it is quite straightforward
[09:23] <ThatGraemeGuy> i wanted to do something simple, just have a PPA with the latest version of HAproxy, since the LTS versions tend to be pretty old
[09:24] <ThatGraemeGuy> and the way i've updated in the past is kinda hackish... manually compile latest version and just replace the executable in /usr/bin
[09:24] <ThatGraemeGuy> figure its time i start doing it properly instead :)
[09:24] <ThatGraemeGuy> but i have no clue where to start
[09:29] <tumbleweed> ThatGraemeGuy: which LTS are we talking about? lucid / precise?
[09:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> this particular case its lucid, so i'm just going to build new ones with precise, but haproxy development moves fast enough that I'd want to do this a little down the line anyway
[09:30] <tumbleweed> ThatGraemeGuy: is the version that's in precise good enough for you, or do you want something even newer?
[09:30] <tumbleweed> the latest version is often not what one actually wants to be using, rather something a little more tested...
[09:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> mmm actually now that i look at it, the version i'm running is already newer than the version in precise
[09:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-1800-1/
[09:32] <tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haproxy-
[09:32] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'm running 1.4.20, precise has 1.4.18-0ubuntu1.1
[09:32] <tumbleweed> err https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haproxy
[09:32] <tumbleweed> correct
[09:33] <tumbleweed> ok, so backports won't help you - you want http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
[09:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> phew! looks like a good place to start, thanks :)
[09:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> something i'll spend my quiet afternoons/evenings with
[09:35] <tumbleweed> if you need any help, stick your nose into #ubuntu-packaging
[09:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> what's the learning curve like for someone with no clue? :)
[09:36] <tumbleweed> depends how much clue you have
[09:36] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh, cool
[09:36] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'm a sysadmin, not a dev
[09:36] <tumbleweed> the Debian packaging tools are really just standard unix tools
[09:36] <tumbleweed> if you know make, and can think logically about program flow, you'll be fine
[09:37] <tumbleweed> these days, we don't do much in makefiles, if we can help it
[09:37] <ThatGraemeGuy> i am aware that 'make' exists :)
[09:37] <ThatGraemeGuy> i suppose that's a good start
[11:04] <magespawn> afternoon all
[11:12] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[11:14] <trender> howdy magespawn
[11:33] <magespawn> hey hey hey
[11:51] <trender> :)
[11:52] <trender> wheres that local rasberry pi website again ?
[11:52] <trender> damn prices are hitting the ground on the Pi
[11:53] <trender> even china is not coping
[12:02] <magespawn> pi factory i think
[12:03] <magespawn> http://www.pifactory.co.za/
[12:06] <magespawn> http://www.eexpress.co.za/ these are meant to be the official distributors according to this www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.phhttp://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29276p?f=23&t=29276
[12:34] <trender> hrm
[12:34] <trender> thanks
[12:34] <trender> seems any tom dick and harry are making these boards now
[12:35] <trender> the cubieboard seems like the new pi
[12:37] <zeref> hmmmm
[12:38] <trender> im gonna buy some cubies i think
[14:11] <zeref> sigh
[14:11] <zeref> I need some ideas:
[14:12] <zeref> i need to look for a string after a string: eg CUSTOMER : 76478326487234. i need to check if the number exists
[14:12] <zeref> in bash
[14:17] <Squirm> zeref: check the first example after the question
[14:17] <Squirm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/229551/string-contains-in-bash
[14:17] <Squirm> case also would work
[14:18] <Squirm> grep would also work
[14:18] <Squirm> :P
[14:21] <zeref> k, I did a  if $(cat $file | grep "CUSTOMER" | tr "CUSTOMER : " "\n")
[14:21] <zeref> seems to work
[15:12] <ThatGraemeGuy> congratulations zeref, you win a "useless use of cat" award :D
[15:24] <magespawn> Tesla Won http://www.geekwire.com/2013/vote-geek-madness-final-linus-torvalds-nikola-tesla/
[15:27] <magespawn> Later all, home time
[17:00] <trender> mornin peeps
[17:06] <Kilos> hehe, old age hits some hard hey
[17:06] <trender> arg ya
[17:06] <Kilos> lo Cantide 
[17:06] <Cantide> hi
[17:06] <trender> specially when customers interupt yer supper :(
[17:06] <trender> tried to eat twice already just given up
[17:07] <Kilos> ai!
[17:07] <Cantide> trender, I have eaten enough for both of us :3
[17:07] <trender> :P yea but you are a meat eater
[17:07] <Cantide> :)
[17:08] <trender> i dont go that road
[17:08] <Cantide> eating a pineapple dessert now
[17:08] <trender> meat is a killer
[17:08] <Cantide> kill or be killed >.<
[17:08] <trender> mabee i can eat that
[17:08] <Kilos> not for everyone trender 
[17:08] <Tonberry_> nomnomon
[17:08] <Cantide> it's okay - i cycle and exercise a lot
[17:08] <Cantide> i think i'm healthy
[17:08] <trender> hehe
[17:08] <trender> you have youth on yer side huh
[17:09] <trender> im an old dog on my last teeth :P
[17:09] <Kilos> lol you still got some
[17:09] <trender> yea i got teeth
[17:09] <trender> my teeth are in my left hand each morning when i brush them :)
[17:10] <Kilos> i got some plastic ones but eat easier without the things
[17:10] <Kilos> hate them
[17:10] <trender> actually my wife said i was lazy
[17:10] <trender> so i said ok dear im having all my teeth pulled out and getting false ones just o you can brush them for me
[17:11] <Kilos> lol
[17:11] <Cantide> hahahaha
[17:11] <trender> :) woman huh
[17:11] <trender> cant live with them..cant kill them
[17:11] <Cantide> well..
[17:11] <Cantide> >_>
[17:12] <Cantide> <_<
[17:12] <Kilos> thats why cantide likes korean chicks
[17:12] <trender> marriage is just a different kind of war
[17:12] <Kilos> he thinks they are more obedient
[17:12] <Cantide> heh
[17:12] <trender> oh i have chinese chicks
[17:12] <Cantide> not the one i have
[17:13] <Cantide> she is totally insane right now
[17:13] <trender> some of china gurls will make your eyes fall out
[17:13] <Cantide> buuuuuuuut, some big news - i could be in Korea before July
[17:13] <Cantide> trender, I've picked up my eyes a few times in Asia already :p
[17:13] <trender> chinese girls are more obedient
[17:14] <trender> different culture
[17:14] <Cantide> depends on the girl, i'm sure
[17:14] <trender> nah i think its culture
[17:14] <Cantide> well, Korean, Chinese and Japanese culture is similar in many ways
[17:14] <Cantide> male-dominated societies all of them
[17:14] <trender> remmember a chinese 25yr old girl is only a teenager
[17:15] <trender> they are very young minded and childish
[17:15] <trender> right
[17:15] <trender> chinese 25yr old girls still watch cartoons
[17:16] <trender> stay kids forever
[17:16] <Cantide> lol
[17:16] <Cantide> not sure that suits me
[17:16] <Cantide> i guess Korea is the right choice :)
[17:17] <trender> ey as long as the "luv you long time ;) "
[17:17] <Cantide> so long as the North doesn't nuke them
[17:17] <trender> they
[17:17] <Cantide> hahaha
[17:17] <Cantide> that's rather stereotypical :p
[17:17] <trender> yea you are right
[17:18] <trender> just like african people with thier wild annimals
[17:18] <trender> scuse me while i go and feed my elephants
[17:19] <trender> even amricans still think we have wild annimals in our back yard
[17:19] <trender> americans
[17:19] <Cantide> hahaha
[17:19] <Cantide> yeah
[17:19] <Cantide> well, most Asians no absolutely nothing about South Africa
[17:19] <Cantide> know *
[17:19] <Cantide> oops :p
[17:19] <Cantide> like "oh, is that a country? where is it?"
[17:20] <trender> i say look everyone theres a real american he is eating a mc and cheese...look it never even touched his lips :)
[17:20] <Cantide> :p
[17:22] <trender> yea chinese actually have some of the most stupid people as well education wise...but they also have some of the best engineers as well and pump them out 10 times faster then we could
[17:23] <Cantide> they have the numbers for pretty much everything :p
[17:23] <trender> they will take over the world...fact
[17:23] <trender> theve already stuffed up USA
[17:23] <Cantide> lol
[17:23] <Cantide> they're spreading fast
[17:24] <trender> right
[17:24] <Cantide> and they'll go anywhere
[17:24] <Cantide> even here in SA
[17:24] <Cantide> they'll open a shop in a township
[17:24] <trender> we dont have long before we gonna feel them
[17:24] <Cantide> no one else would dare :D
[17:24] <Tonberry_> and there we all thought the south koreans would zergling rush everyone
[17:24] <trender> right
[17:25] <trender> ey man if you can eat a dog you can can open a shop in soweto or kayalitsha
[17:25] <Tonberry_> plenty of dogs
[17:25] <Cantide> lol
[17:25] <Cantide> dog is not bad
[17:25] <Cantide> i've eaten it there twice
[17:25] <trender> hrm ok
[17:25] <Cantide> apparently good for your health
[17:26] <Cantide> and my ex's dad was feeling a little sick
[17:26] <Cantide> so she cooked dog for lunch
[17:26] <trender> nothing with a heartbeat is good for your health but thats annother story
[17:26] <Tonberry_> evolution would like a word
[17:27] <trender> arg ya
[17:27] <trender> mans interlect is his downfall as well
[17:27] <Cantide> :)
[17:28] <trender> man should have stayed a fruit picker :)
[17:28] <trender> farmer even
[17:28] <trender> things will turn full circle yet
[17:29] <trender> man will return to the land
[17:29] <trender> when no land is left he wonders why he gets ill
[17:29] <Cantide> that would be best for this planet
[17:29] <Cantide> if all humans died
[17:29] <trender> right
[17:29] <Tonberry_> net very good for the humans tho
[17:30] <trender> im all for global extermination
[17:30] <trender> man has become very sick
[17:31] <trender> im not just talking about australian sheep farmers with thier marvelous sheep in the tall grass either
[17:31] <trender> money messes everthong up mans greed
[17:32] <trender> man will manufacture more diseases so he can sell more pills
[17:33] <trender> windows will always evolve every 12 months so we can buy it again
[17:33] <Cantide> hehe
[17:33] <Cantide> yeah, the world is sick
[17:33] <Cantide> or we could just use Ubuntu :)
[17:33] <trender> erm yea :)
[17:33] <magespawn> evening all
[17:34] <trender> annother ubuntu salesman :P
[17:34] <magespawn> i see we are into light chatty talk tonight
[17:34] <Cantide> there's nothing to sell :p
[17:34] <Cantide> hi magespawn :)
[17:34] <magespawn> hey cantide
[17:34] <magespawn> sorry Cantide 
[17:34] <Cantide> brb
[17:35] <trender> give me a cubieboard that i will buy :P
[17:35] <trender> just for a linux toy
[17:35] <trender> raspberry PI's days are numbered
[17:36] <Kilos> hi  magespawn 
[17:36] <trender> whats the smallest cheapest small linux toy with sata interface
[17:36]  * Kilos gonna try have an early night
[17:37] <magespawn> sleep is good Kilos?
[17:37] <Kilos> yeah sometimes its the best
[17:37] <trender> ok kilos take care mate..
[17:37] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[17:37] <magespawn> Cantide: did you not post the link to that other board you were looking at?
[17:37] <magespawn> good night Kilos
[17:37] <Cantide> which board?
[17:37] <Kilos> trender: install ubuntu man then you will see how much time you are wasting
[17:38] <Cantide> magespawn, i think you're thinking of someone else
[17:38] <trender> :)
[17:38] <magespawn> ahhh probable cannot remember who or what the board was called
[17:38] <Kilos> while windows is still botting ubuntu is working
[17:39] <Kilos> sleep tight
[17:39] <trender> magespawn you seen cubieboard ?
[17:39] <magespawn> not yet
[17:40] <trender> 50$ the next step from PI
[17:40] <trender> also a hotcake
[17:40] <trender> but im waiting for the new indian 20$ laptop
[17:40] <trender> cheapest in the world
[17:40] <magespawn> that would be cheap
[17:40] <trender> i dont think they have an OS yet though
[17:41] <trender> still bragging about the hardware
[17:41] <trender> its touting a 35$ sollution now
[17:41] <trender> but they pushing for 20$
[17:42] <trender> trying to skin the chinas
[17:42] <magespawn> complete machine?
[17:42] <trender> minus OS
[17:42] <trender> OS will push it up
[17:43] <trender> and they will likely go to bed with the OS company
[17:43] <trender> pcs always a bad investment :(
[17:44] <trender> it looks like a tablet to me though
[17:44] <trender> i seen it on youtube
[17:45] <trender> arg people are scraping the bottom of the barrel market
[17:45] <trender> more money in the bins it seems
[17:46] <trender> just youtube 35$ laptop
[17:46] <trender> i hope its not gonna be annother android..lawd i hate those things
[17:48] <trender> tablet prices still need become more accessable
[17:49] <trender> and why the hell are chinese prices on the raspberry PI higher then UK
[17:49] <trender> makes no sence
[17:50] <trender> or perhaps its the shipping errr
[17:50] <trender> hrm
[17:51] <magespawn> leave the os of, let the buyer choose
[17:51] <trender> yea i second that but it wont happen
[17:52] <trender> to much piracy
[17:53] <trender> i dont think you can buy blank laptops or tablets
[17:53] <trender> or mabee i dont get out enuf
[17:54] <trender> anyhow the pc is basically dead laptops have taken over
[17:55] <trender> i dont even think linux should be free
[17:55] <trender> not everyone wants free
[17:55] <trender> me i prefer to pay
[17:56] <magespawn> why pay for linux? i am not understanding
[17:57] <trender> support the devellopers
[17:57] <trender> good isnt cheap..chea isnt good
[17:57] <trender> cheap
[17:57] <Cantide> you can donate
[17:57] <trender> people with money have this illution
[17:58] <magespawn> you can support in orther ways besides with money
[17:58] <magespawn> other
[17:59] <Cantide> contribute
[17:59] <Cantide> i like it to be free
[17:59] <Cantide> but yes, i wouldn't really mind paying
[18:00] <trender> im surprised ubuntu even exists
[18:00] <Cantide> and the problem with devices without OSs - your average consumer either doesn't know how to, or doesn't want the hassle of loading their own
[18:00] <trender> i cant imagine making an OS happen for fre
[18:03] <magespawn> they had some small amount of work to build on
[18:08] <trender> people want everything for free nowdays..
[18:09] <trender> but those people always seem to have more problems then the okes willing to pay
[18:09] <magespawn> that is very broad
[18:09] <trender> IMO
[18:10] <trender> every single oke who says best price ends up in trouble
[18:10] <trender> without fail
[18:10] <Cantide> ah
[18:10] <Cantide> i agree with that partially
[18:10] <trender> something free ends up in the bin
[18:11] <Cantide> my dad always tries to buy the cheapest thing - mostly ends up with rubbish
[18:11] <trender> thats not always true
[18:11] <trender> its apersons perception that breaks things
[18:11] <trender> mind over matter makes a huge difference
[18:12] <trender> even in placbo testing
[18:12] <trender> placebo
[18:12] <magespawn> ahh yes but those who are willing to pay appreciate value, all i am saying is that 'money' does not have to be the way you pay
[18:12] <trender> the placebo effect prevents people from getting anything free for a "bargain"
[18:13] <trender> i see this every day
[18:13] <trender> i flag the okes with bad perceptions
[18:13] <trender> and like clockwork they are trouble
[18:14] <trender> but make an oke pay 200% and he never has a problem
[18:14] <trender> he looks after the product
[18:15] <trender> price matters at a placebo level
[18:15] <trender> like it or not perception is reality
[18:16] <trender> give a child a smartie for a headeche and the child could be cured
[18:17] <trender> but this extends into every level of our lives
[18:17] <trender> lets take annother example
[18:17] <trender> a smoker tries an ecigarette
[18:17] <trender> he likes it
[18:18] <trender> you tell the oke oy there is brakefluid inside there
[18:18] <trender> suddenly it doenst taste so good anymore
[18:18] <trender> boom..there goes that idea
[18:19] <magespawn> i see what you are saying, but you can also pay a lot for rubbish, and somethings do not have to be as pricey as they are
[18:19] <Cantide> and some things can be free :)
[18:20] <trender> magespawn price just creates the perception of quality
[18:20] <trender> more you pay more joy you have in most cases
[18:20] <trender> i get you tho
[18:20] <magespawn> yes and that can be false
[18:21] <trender> i dont share the eveready duracell perception BTW
[18:21] <trender> but mabee im not a good candidate for the general perception rule
[18:21] <trender> i like to poke about also
[18:22] <trender> but most people dont look that deep
[18:25] <trender> so it turns out that little squareone server box needs a full linux compile for armv4 core...the manufacturer wont have anything to do with it
[18:26] <trender> lazy flippen koreans how hard can it be to supply the damn images
[18:26] <Cantide> :o
[18:26] <Cantide> huh?
[18:26] <trender> the server dude
[18:26] <trender> my squareone server boxes
[18:26] <Cantide> aha
[18:27] <trender> you never had a look yet ?
[18:27] <trender> its online it just has no images loaded
[18:27] <Cantide> tell him 주글래
[18:27] <Cantide> or something like that
[18:27] <trender> yea
[18:27] <trender> i get you
[18:27] <Cantide> it means "wanna die?"
[18:27] <Cantide> he might get offended though
[18:27] <trender> yes it looks like i will kill you
[18:27] <Cantide> in which case don't tell him i said it :p
[18:27] <Cantide> yeah, something like that :p
[18:28] <zeref> hmmmm
[18:28] <trender> :)
[18:28] <trender> i dunno how you get those charaters on here
[18:28] <trender> but ok
[18:28] <trender> characters even
[18:29] <Cantide> i type them
[18:29] <Cantide> 안녕하세요
[18:29] <trender> ok then :P
[18:29] <Cantide> i have a Korean keyboard, and Korean input set up
[18:29] <Cantide> so it's quite easy
[18:30] <trender> well all the chinese that matter to me seem to do ok with english
[18:30] <trender> even koreans would be the same im sure
[18:30] <Cantide> yeah, that's true
[18:30] <Cantide> the ones that come into contact with English are generally prepared for it
[18:30] <trender> uhuh
[18:31] <Cantide> sometimes, as i once experienced, it's very difficult to order macdonalds unless you speak the language
[18:31] <trender> i bought 100 linux servers without images lol
[18:31] <trender> what was i thinking :P
[18:31] <Cantide> :D
[18:32] <Cantide> language barrier? :D
[18:32] <trender> would have ok if they used normal flippen x86 cores
[18:32] <trender> this arm is risc stuff i think
[18:33] <trender> prolly atmel
[18:33] <trender> if im not mistaken
[18:35] <trender> mabee i need search for some precompiled images and just test them
[18:35] <trender> but im really just a novice on linux
[18:51] <trender> is that the general linix concept
[18:51] <trender> linux even
[18:52] <trender> i dont find any onfo on compiling apache server for armv4 architecture
[18:52] <trender> info
[18:52] <Cantide> i'm a relative n00b myself
[18:52] <Cantide> and a complete n00b when it comes to specialized systems
[18:52] <trender> ah i thought you was just beeing rude :)
[18:53] <trender> well
[18:53] <trender> the way i see it now
[18:53] <trender> this box supports apache server
[18:53] <Cantide> :p
[18:53] <trender> but it will need compiling for armv4 chip
[18:54] <trender> and that will get the web services running
[18:54] <trender> same deal for samba
[18:55] <Tonberry_> does it have any software on it?
[18:55] <trender> is that why the linux stuff is provided in source for cross plantform support ??
[18:55] <trender> platform
[18:55] <trender> no software just the embedded OS
[18:56] <trender> and i dont think the OS can be updated its built into the firmware
[18:56] <Tonberry_> does it have any form of software installer or package manager?
[18:56] <trender> well not updated conventionally
[18:56] <trender> no i dont think it does mate
[18:57] <trender> you welcome to take a look at it
[18:57] <trender> its on my 8090 port and 23
[18:58] <trender> thats all you have access to really it dont even have usb
[18:58] <trender> just admin panel and telnet
[19:05] <trender> time to use the wayback machine :(
[19:06] <Tonberry_> looks more like a NAS than a proper server to me
[19:06] <trender> arg its also offline
[19:06] <Tonberry_> maybe a router with NAS capabilities
[19:06] <trender> its a nAS with linux OS mate
[19:06] <trender> and its missing software
[19:07] <trender> missing apache and samba
[19:07] <trender> or as they like to say missing the "hard drive image"
[19:08] <trender> Tonberry_ did you get the logins ??
[19:08] <Tonberry_> have not tried logging in, just googling at the moment
[19:08] <trender> ah ok
[19:09] <trender> well you can get  into linux root
[19:09] <trender> you can even drop images on the disk
[19:09] <trender> you just cant make those packages work
[19:10] <trender> and the manufactureris acting dumb
[19:10] <trender> so ive got to fix this thing the hard way
[19:10] <Tonberry_> who is the manufacturer anyway?
[19:10] <trender> Itian
[19:11] <trender> they only support the SQ201 now
[19:11] <trender> and i need to get 100 x sq101 working
[19:11] <trender> i only want it for a server not a spaceship
[19:12] <trender> but its still an epic mission with linited documentation
[19:12] <trender> limited
[19:12] <trender> but im not the giving up type
[19:13] <trender> ive made harder gadgets work before
[19:13] <trender> but i usually dev my own toys
[19:13] <trender> never used linux before though
[19:14] <trender> and im terrified of linux at this stage
[19:14] <Tonberry_> are you sure the web server components are not installed?
[19:14] <trender> to many concepts i dont understand yet
[19:14] <Tonberry_> the very limited documentation suggests it should be
[19:14] <trender> well i never recieved an image
[19:15] <trender>  and the webserver and fileserver daemons are dead therefore
[19:15] <trender> ....etc etc etc
[19:16] <trender> its normally shipped with a hard disk
[19:16] <trender> mine had to be installed
[19:16] <trender> so they had no images on
[19:16] <trender> everything on the hdd now ive put there myself
[19:17] <trender> are you refering to the sq201 tonberry ??
[19:17] <Tonberry_> possibly
[19:17] <trender> because the sq201 is tottaly different and wont apply
[19:18] <trender> but even so like i said i installed my own drives
[19:18] <trender> minu the images
[19:18] <trender> minus images
[19:18] <trender> and you cantthe images
[19:18] <trender> cant download
[19:19] <trender> the sq101 tottaly dissapeared and its my mission to figure out why
[19:19] <Tonberry_> it would be strange to keep the samba and apache binaries on the disk
[19:19] <Tonberry_> at least for an embedded nas
[19:20] <trender> erm i follow you to a certain degree
[19:20] <trender> NAS is just one function of this machine
[19:20] <trender> and the NAS is done with samba
[19:21] <trender> from what i can tell from reading
[19:21] <trender> if i install an image like samba.tar then it unpacks the image 100%
[19:22] <trender> it even says |||installing|||
[19:22] <trender> and the package is unzipped by the OS
[19:22] <trender> that part is cool
[19:22] <Tonberry_> i suspect it wants a full operating system image
[19:22] <Tonberry_> not a tar of a program
[19:22] <trender> i dissagree
[19:23] <trender> the OS is embedded
[19:23] <trender> i can update the os by flashing the firmware
[19:23] <trender> but that wont get me anywhere
[19:24] <trender> im convinced the OS is ok
[19:24] <Symmetria> hello all
[19:24] <trender> and the images are just software paccages
[19:24]  * Symmetria has sad news :(
[19:24] <highvoltage> hello Symmetria 
[19:24] <trender> mornin
[19:24] <Symmetria> mirror.ac.za = dead, and could be quite a while coming back :(
[19:25] <trender> erm
[19:25] <Symmetria> *SIGH* tenet screwed up 
[19:25] <highvoltage> I saw some people talking about it on another channel :-/
[19:25] <trender> i will light a candle
[19:25] <Symmetria> multiple drive failures over time that were never attended to, till eventually they lost an entire major array 
[19:25] <trender> what is that mirror dude :)
[19:25] <Symmetria> and on that array were all the sync scripts and the website and everything else
[19:25] <Symmetria> and well, since I left, tjehy had quit backing up all that shit 
[19:26] <highvoltage> you should've uploaded it to github or something :)
[19:26] <Symmetria> heh not my job, I had proper running backups when I was there
[19:27] <Symmetria> so well, god knows when they will get it back up, thats a shitload of sync scripts etc 
[19:27] <Symmetria> I told them I can rebuild it for them if they want, but I dont ahve the time (or the inclination) to do that all over again for free, so they would have to pay for it ;p
[19:27] <highvoltage> I've been using webafrica for a while now anyway since they have the freezone
[19:28] <trender> work = pay sounds reasonable
[19:28] <magespawn> okay then, guess i will not wait to do the shop updates then
[19:29] <Symmetria> trender honestly, cheaper for them to find someone else, if I do work like that, Im charging full rate, because its not a job I particularly wanna do and I cant jeprodize my other clients taking on more work without proper compensation
[19:29] <Symmetria> and my rates are? well, you dont wanna know
[19:30] <trender> ey good for you thats the way its supposed to be mate
[19:30] <highvoltage> one hundred billion dollars
[19:30] <Symmetria> highvoltage heh, would cost them about 200 grand to have me do it 
[19:30] <Symmetria> 150 - 200 
[19:31] <Symmetria> the other option is that everyone start using mirror.ufs.ac.za
[19:31] <Symmetria> which has everything
[19:31] <Symmetria> is much better maintained
[19:31] <Symmetria> and is on the same amount of bandwidth
[19:31] <jpm[netbook]> but not as widely accessable for free as mirror.ac
[19:31] <Tonberry_> but delivers vastly less last time I downloaded from there...
[19:31] <Symmetria> ton, speed wise?
[19:31] <Symmetria> or what?
[19:31] <Tonberry_> yes speed wise
[19:31] <Tonberry_> was a while ago
[19:31] <Symmetria> *HRM* try it again now
[19:31] <Symmetria> that should be fixed
[19:32] <Tonberry_> but i dont think i got more than 30kb/s from sun
[19:32] <Symmetria> errr not sun
[19:32] <Symmetria> ufs.ac.za
[19:32] <jpm[netbook]> we are at sun
[19:32] <Tonberry_> no wait i am thinking about the uct mirror
[19:32] <Symmetria> uct mirror is bandwidth limited
[19:32] <Symmetria> ufs isnt
[19:33] <Symmetria> and if its not free on sun, wel that can be fixed
[19:33] <Tonberry_> that i will have to check
[19:33] <Symmetria> but it should be *FAST* 
[19:33] <Symmetria> infact from sun it should be faster than the original ac.za since it has lower latency to sun
[19:33] <Symmetria> and I think weh ave 100tb in that mirror as well
[19:34] <Symmetria> sourceforge is problematic, but Im working on another solution for that
[19:34] <jpm[netbook]> does ...
[19:34] <jpm[netbook]> ok
[19:34] <jpm[netbook]> just wanted to ask that
[19:34] <Symmetria> sourceforge is problematic because of the legalities and contracts and other crap
[19:34] <Symmetria> but Im working on it
[19:34] <trender> 100tb gee thats a baby huh :)
[19:34] <jpm[netbook]> nah
[19:35] <jpm[netbook]> not so much these days
[19:35] <Symmetria> trender heh, ideally, tenet can just relocate the current mirror.ac.za hardware to ufs and we can rebuild it outta mirror.ufs and use that hardware 
[19:35] <trender> erm especially if its a movie collection from hell
[19:35] <Symmetria> ac.za has 150tb and 192gig of ram
[19:35] <jpm[netbook]> Symmetria: how about just pointing the mirror.ac dns records to ufs?
[19:35] <jpm[netbook]> for now anyway
[19:35] <Symmetria> and 12 cpu cores 
[19:36] <Symmetria> jpm heh, tenet wont do that I dont think, tenet acts a bit strange about these things
[19:36] <trender> eish
[19:36] <Symmetria> I'll ask patrick though
[19:36] <trender> so much machine...
[19:37] <trender> yer scaring my laptop with all this machine talk
[19:38] <Symmetria> lol
[19:38] <trender> how does a machine even use 192gigs of ram
[19:40] <trender> i think those machines are not very small im guessing
[19:41] <Symmetria> heh no they arent
[19:42] <trender> i remmebr the days when 48k and 64k where considdered bigger than youd ever need
[19:43] <Symmetria> heh trender you'll find with me, I generally only deal in rather large things 
[19:43] <Symmetria> bandwidth, hardware, etc 
[19:43] <trender> 640K even
[19:43] <trender> i also deal in large things
[19:44] <Symmetria> Ive told patrick to redirect shit from mirror.ac to mirror.ufs
[19:44] <trender> but not the road most travel i want to eat as well
[19:44] <Symmetria> hopefully he does that
[19:44] <Symmetria> anyway, almost 11pm where I am at the moment and ugh, 2 much work to do tomorrow
[19:44] <Symmetria> so probably need some sleep
[19:45] <Symmetria> heh, will be glad to be back in .za for a week next week before flying out again
[19:45] <trender> anyhow the cp road is paved with small coins and it leads to stupidville
[19:45] <trender> pc
[19:45] <Symmetria> hehe trender I mostly play in the network / telecomms world
[19:45] <trender> yea i was getting that picture mate
[19:46] <trender> i also go proprietary
[19:46] <Symmetria> ;p my goal on this one is to build a network bigger than what I managed at tenet
[19:46] <trender> i cant pick up copper coins anymore im getting to old
[19:46] <Symmetria> I succeeded in creating the fastest largest network in .za
[19:46] <Symmetria> now I wanna build the fastest largest network in africa
[19:46] <Symmetria> ;p
[19:46] <Symmetria> just to say I did it
[19:46] <Symmetria> hehe
[19:46] <trender> ah well thats an achievement i guess
[19:47] <Tonberry_> who has a bigger one at the moment?
[19:47] <trender> this morning i went to the toilet without assistance :)
[19:47] <Symmetria> tonberry heh, geographically liquids network is far larger than tenet's 
[19:47] <trender> that to me was an achievement
[19:47] <Symmetria> speed wise tenet is still top 
[19:47] <Symmetria> but I'll get liquid to the same speed levels :)
[19:49] <Tonberry_> trender ive had a look at your server thingy. for some reason the designers decided that it would be a good idea to put the samba binary on the disk
[19:49] <trender> tonberry yes i deduced that the flippen hard way :(
[19:50] <trender> all from first ugly rinciples
[19:50] <trender> principles
[19:50] <trender> i understand this server box to a certain degree
[19:51] <trender> but i cant get those binary images anywhere
[19:51] <trender> need to compile them for armv4 and i dont know yet how the hell to do that
[19:51] <Tonberry_> that is going to be a pain
[19:52] <trender> tonberry yes thats what ive been told as well
[19:52] <magespawn> you can]t use the ubuntu arm images?
[19:52] <trender> ubuntu has arm images ??
[19:52] <highvoltage> ubuntu has never supported armv4
[19:52] <Tonberry_> dont think ubuntu compiles anything form armv4
[19:52] <Tonberry_> and that is a 2.4 kernel
[19:53] <Tonberry_> so veeeeery ancient
[19:53] <trender> ey this thing is 7 years old
[19:53] <trender> even the waybackmachine is loosing track of it
[19:53] <magespawn> they do have arm build though, don't they?
[19:53] <trender> actually wayback is down
[19:53] <highvoltage> you're highly unlikely to run any recently released software on that.
[19:54] <trender> highvoltage agreed!!!
[19:54] <trender> armv4 is not a Performance core
[19:54] <trender> its a calculator core
[19:55] <trender> dinosuar really
[19:56] <superfly> highvoltage: what architecture does the Pi use, do you know?
[19:56] <Tonberry_> arm6 i think
[19:56] <trender> also the arm core
[19:56] <superfly> (well, ARM, but I know Ubuntu doesn't support the Pi's ARM)
[19:56] <Tonberry_> armv6
[19:57] <highvoltage> superfly: armv6
[19:57] <trender> this arm gets 168MIPS so its like 10x the power of a basic calculator
[19:57] <highvoltage> superfly: the pi has some v7 features too, like floating point
[19:58] <highvoltage> trender: it's not so much about speed as compatibility, arm cpu designs aren't (usually) backwards compatible
[19:58] <trender> cubieboard in nicer than the PI im gonna get some of those to mess with
[19:59] <trender> uhuh
[19:59] <Symmetria> heh
[19:59] <highvoltage> cubieboard is armv7, at least.
[19:59] <Symmetria> I was told today to tell the people workingunder me at one of my clients 
[19:59] <trender> well i only do low level dev so i dont work much with chips that big
[20:00] <Symmetria> that the work they were doing now could be considered a giant extended job interview
[20:00] <Symmetria> and I was to report back on each of them in the n ext coupla months and their fates would be decided
[20:00] <Symmetria> talk about pressure
[20:00] <Tonberry_> and all they want in life is job security
[20:00] <trender> you can never have job security
[20:01] <trender> unless you stand on yer own feet mate
[20:01] <Tonberry_> and if you dont want a job anymore then they never leave you alone...
[20:01] <trender> even then its still russian roulette
[20:01] <Symmetria> heh this is why I work as a private contractor
[20:02] <trender> this is why i ride my own horse
[20:02] <Tonberry_> not everyone has 'ran/built tenet' on their cv
[20:03] <superfly> anyone else going to ScaleConf ?
[20:03] <trender> there is only one certainty in the job market an employer can always find annother pleb cheaper
[20:03] <trender> so i rather employ then work
[20:03] <trender> working makes no sence
[20:04] <highvoltage> employment makes lots of sense, in lots of situations, to many people
[20:04] <trender> and a pat on the back and a plastic watch is not accepetable to me
[20:05] <trender> acceptable
[20:05] <trender> personal choice
[20:05] <Symmetria> yeah its a choice
[20:05] <Symmetria> and sadly, its also about who you know, especially in my industry
[20:05] <Symmetria> you can be the best network engineer in the world, if you dont have the contacts to land the contracts
[20:05] <Symmetria> you're fucked 
[20:05] <trender> correct again
[20:06] <trender> doors dont just open anymore...
[20:06] <trender> to many plebs mate
[20:06] <Symmetria> the advantage I have though in africa is a massive massive shortage of skill
[20:06] <trender> you say this now
[20:06] <Symmetria> and as a result, for a guy in my line of work, there is always plenty plenty of business 
[20:07] <Symmetria> heh trender you got a continent where 800 million people are still not net connected
[20:07] <Symmetria> and maybe 100 really qualified network engineers 
[20:07] <Symmetria> be *YEARS* before thats fixed
[20:07] <trender> sure duly noted
[20:07] <Symmetria> that and the fact that universities and colleges dont train network people
[20:07] <Symmetria> they train programmers etc 
[20:07] <trender> correct
[20:07] <Symmetria> but no one is actually training service provider network engineers 
[20:08] <trender> always money in proprietary fields mate
[20:08] <Symmetria> so the skill problem isnt coming right, its getting worse
[20:08] <Symmetria> as such, its a gold mine
[20:08] <trender> for now a gold mine yea
[20:08] <Symmetria> though honestly, I give myself another 5 years in this industry, and then I retire and decide what I wanna do from there
[20:09] <Symmetria> coulda already done that, but Im still having fun and still have a few things I wanna achieve before getting out 
[20:09] <trender> well im gonna buy the farm and plant trees technology doesnt agree with me anymore
[20:09] <Symmetria> heh thought long and hard about retiring when I left tenet but I was bored 
[20:10] <trender> my passion flame burnt out years ago..
[20:10] <trender> and the funny thing is i make more money not workin then i did in dev
[20:11] <trender> just turned to dev management rather
[20:11] <Symmetria> heh for me, Im driven by attempting to achieve what no one else has before
[20:11] <trender> Symmetria that is the normal flame
[20:11] <Symmetria> doing things that even if no one ever notices them, I know I was first 
[20:11] <Symmetria> trender yeah but its something very few people manage to actually get right 
[20:11] <trender> but as long as the money fuels the flame it will burn brightly
[20:12] <Symmetria> and I will openly say, because Ive been lucky and been in the right place at the right time, Ive managed to do that several times over already, but not quite done, I wanna go oe step better 
[20:12] <Trixar_za> I'm not really like that. I'm just attracted to difficult problems.
[20:12] <trender> passion is overated
[20:12] <Symmetria> money no longer fuels it for me either, because I dont need the money any more
[20:13] <highvoltage> trender: it is?
[20:13] <Symmetria> I made my money, Ive got enough for it to be more than content for the rest of my life, now its just about doing what everyone else says is impossible just because everyone says it cant be done
[20:13] <trender> i cant get outta bed if the money isnt right
[20:13] <Trixar_za> Wish I could say the same. 
[20:13] <Symmetria> heh trender I used to be like that, ,till I woke up and realized I honestly had no need for more money
[20:13] <highvoltage> Symmetria: I've never had money, but even so it's also never been a big motivator / factor for me for choosing the work I do
[20:13] <trender> there is always need for maney man
[20:14] <trender> money
[20:14] <Symmetria> highvoltage *shrug* I grew up dirt poor it was a factor for a while
[20:14] <Symmetria> then it became meaningless once I realized I couldnt spend it all anyway
[20:14] <Symmetria> and its now totally about the challenge
[20:14] <highvoltage> well, there's a difference between being dirt-poor and living a modest life for sure
[20:14] <highvoltage> I'm perfectly content having enough to cover all my costs and saving up a little.
[20:14] <trender> money can do so many good things in the right hands
[20:15] <Symmetria> heh Ive known both ends of the spectrum, hell, I spent 2 weeks living on the streets of joburg at one point 
[20:15] <trender> and i can never have enough
[20:15] <highvoltage> Sure I'd like a nice fancy car just like most other people do too, but I'm also happy just driving something simple and reliable and modest.
[20:15] <Trixar_za> It's always been about the challenge for me. Money or rewards don't really motivate me. The harder it is, the more I want to do it. Also I'm extremely lazy - as in I would put in a LARGE amount of effort so future effort is reduced for me.
[20:15] <Symmetria> heh, the funny thing is, it was when I hit that rock bottom point, that I realized just how little money actually meant 
[20:15] <trender> i dont care about opulent luxuries at all
[20:16] <Symmetria> trixar lol, yeah, the difficult factor is kinda part of it for me, but the bigger factor is someone telling me that it cant be done 
[20:16] <Trixar_za> lol
[20:16] <Trixar_za> Yeah, that helps
[20:16] <Symmetria> then I just have this insane need to prove them wrong
[20:16] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:16] <highvoltage> what I will say though is that making the right choices not based on money have often lead to opportunities to make better money
[20:16] <Trixar_za> Spite just gives it that extra bit of flavour
[20:16] <Symmetria> lol trender I will openly admit I like my toys, some of which are extremely expensive 
[20:16] <Trixar_za> Actually that's how IRC Wiki came about
[20:16] <highvoltage> and on the flip side I've seen people who talk about money as their only motivator, and then those are the same people with nothing
[20:16] <Tonberry_> mmm
[20:16] <Trixar_za> Mostly out of spite
[20:16] <Symmetria> heh in particular, I like my cars ;p
[20:17] <Tonberry_> Symmetria you can't fix 8ta
[20:17] <trender> i started with 0$ at the bottom as well mate
[20:17] <Tonberry_> worth a try...
[20:17] <trender> i worked my ass off
[20:17] <Symmetria> tonberry haha the better one for me would be symmetria cant destroy telkom
[20:17] <magespawn> night all
[20:17] <Symmetria> ;p see that would be a challenge worth taking
[20:17] <trender> nigh mage
[20:17] <Tonberry_> haha
[20:18] <Symmetria> trender lol I will admit that while a lot of normal luxuries dont mean much to me
[20:18] <Symmetria> I am kinda obsessed with insanely fast cars
[20:18] <Trixar_za> trender: Don't really understand the concept of working hard. Probably because most work is fun or interesting for me if it's challenging.
[20:18] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:18] <trender> people who dont talk about money dont have money
[20:18] <Trixar_za> Probably why I suck at asking people for money
[20:18] <Symmetria> call it my drug of choice
[20:18] <trender> period the law off attraction mate simpple
[20:18] <trender> simple truth
[20:18] <Symmetria> haha trixar I used to suck at asking people for money
[20:19] <Symmetria> then I realized something
[20:19] <trender> you get where you head is at
[20:19] <Symmetria> the work that I do for them, makes them money, insane amounts of it
[20:19] <trender> if your head is on the money channel you get money
[20:19] <Symmetria> and if Im gonna make them rich, I want my cut
[20:19] <trender> its that simple
[20:19] <Symmetria> so I stopped giving a damn about asking for my share 
[20:19] <trender> if you head is on the stupid channel you buggerall
[20:19] <Trixar_za> Never thought of it like that
[20:19] <trender> get
[20:20] <Symmetria> trixar lol I figure this, if Im gonna do something for someone
[20:20] <Symmetria> that is gonna make them tens of millions
[20:20] <Symmetria> then I have every right to make a mil or 2 off it myself
[20:20] <trender> isnt that the general idea
[20:20] <Symmetria> trender yeah but its something a lot of people who dont like asking for money forget 
[20:20] <Symmetria> :)
[20:21] <Trixar_za> But I have to deal with my other problem though. How do I work out how hard something was to do? I can blast through some problems without really trying, but just because it was easy or fun for me, doesn't mean it would have been easy for somebody else. So I never know what to charge.
[20:21] <trender> Symmetria now that there is the most important thing ive heard you say
[20:21] <trender> workers dont understand money and okes with money dont care about the work
[20:21] <Symmetria> trixar LOL thats why I charge a standard hourly rate + commission on sales referals and in some cases, a profit share percentage 
[20:22]  * Trixar_za writes this down
[20:22] <trender> no worker ive ever met understood money
[20:22] <Symmetria> trixar heh, at the moment, I charge a standard rate of $150 USD an hour as a standard rate no matter what Im doing
[20:22] <trender> and thats the epic monumental stuffup
[20:22] <Symmetria> if I refer sales to a company, I take 3% of gross revenue 
[20:23] <Symmetria> and if its a new venure where money isnt available to pay me directly and I believe it will succeed, sometimes I'll just do a profit share percentage on future revenues 
[20:23] <Symmetria> but the latter is rare 
[20:23] <Symmetria> (albeit extremely lucrative)
[20:23] <trender> Symmetria eish my broe!!
[20:23] <trender> dont play russian roulette
[20:24] <Symmetria> trender heh, the latter pays well because I only do it if I dont incur expense doing it
[20:24] <Symmetria> I will do profit share only with labour 
[20:24] <Symmetria> not with anything that costs me anything of my own resources
[20:24] <trender> hrm ok i get you
[20:24] <Symmetria> and its actually made me a ton of money
[20:24] <trender> thats ok then
[20:25] <trender> i never step in liability unless i get 50% before i wake up
[20:25] <trender> no exceptions
[20:25] <trender> the okes that dont agree dont need my airtime
[20:25] <Symmetria> lol trender the other thing about me, I dont mind risk 
[20:26] <Symmetria> keep in mind, a vast percentage of the money I have today was made through high leveraged naked shorting 
[20:26] <trender> risk is ok when yer young to some degree
[20:26] <Symmetria> and there is probably nothing more risky than that ;p
[20:27] <Symmetria> though lol, after the markets tanked so badly when leemans etc folded, they banned naked shorting :(
[20:27] <trender> ive had okes order 250k on my table and drop me in the shit before
[20:27] <trender> so i dont go down that road
[20:27] <Symmetria> trender lol, Ive had outstanding naked shorts of multiple millions 
[20:27] <Symmetria> and then you pray that the shorted stocks fall and dont rise
[20:27] <trender> hehe
[20:27] <trender> eish man
[20:28] <trender> i dont play them horses
[20:28] <Symmetria> you know how shorting works right?
[20:28] <trender> that requires nerves of steel
[20:28] <Symmetria> when you buy a stock, if it drops, you can hold onto it and sell it when it rises again, so its a cash flow risk, but its not insane
[20:28] <Symmetria> with a naked short, you sell stock you dont own 
[20:28] <Symmetria> and have X period to buy it back
[20:28] <trender> well short is down long is up
[20:28] <trender> or something
[20:28] <Symmetria> so you sell like a million dollars in stock
[20:29] <Symmetria> and in 2 weeks you gotta buy it back
[20:29] <Symmetria> and you pray to god you can buy it back lower than what you sold it at
[20:29] <highvoltage> trender: so you make a lot of money?
[20:29] <Symmetria> going long you can play a waiting game for moneys if need be 
[20:29] <Symmetria> going short, you got 2 to 3 weeks to replenish the stock bank
[20:29] <Symmetria> meaning you're entirely at the mercy of the markets moves over the short period
[20:29] <Symmetria> thats risky, in extremely
[20:29] <Symmetria> in extreme I mean
[20:30] <trender> hrmmm
[20:30] <trender> the leverage can kill you in a heartbeat
[20:30] <trender> need to be an emotionless robot
[20:30] <Symmetria> trender lol, especially when you leveraging millions at a time
[20:31] <Trixar_za> I probably shouldn't say it. But it sounds fun.
[20:31] <trender> correct
[20:31] <Symmetria> and unless you're leveraging millions at a time, its not worth doing it 
[20:31] <Symmetria> because you're relying on micro percentage moves to make the money
[20:31] <highvoltage> I had a Billion under my bed once.
[20:31] <trender> its a double edged sword and it cuts deep both ways
[20:31] <Symmetria> highvoltage I had you beat, I had 100 trillion under mine, it was zimbabwean though
[20:31] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:32] <highvoltage> ah in zim$ I just have 100 million
[20:32] <highvoltage> (well, had. it expired)
[20:32] <trender> i dont seem to make money my plans just keep getting bigger though
[20:32] <Symmetria> heh trender what you really want is a million in leverage and then a 3% drop a day later
[20:32] <trender> :)
[20:33] <Symmetria> heh the best I ever did was I heard some rumours on a particular stock
[20:33] <Symmetria> and decided to take a total gamble
[20:33] <Symmetria> leveraged a huge short, and the stock tanked 18% the next day
[20:33] <trender> well scalping is essentially what the banks do i recon
[20:33] <trender> but only with machines from helll!!!
[20:33] <Symmetria> it was a very very good day
[20:33] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:33] <Symmetria> trender lol, they banned shorting like this now though
[20:34] <Symmetria> because heh, the shorting of bank stocks after the commodities mess 
[20:34] <trender> you news trading ??
[20:34] <Symmetria> was driving the banks to bankcrupcy
[20:35] <trender> i guess you must be no other way
[20:35] <trender> i dont have the balls for that yet
[20:35] <Symmetria> trender heh, I never insider traded, that would be illegal, but you hear many many things in this market 
[20:35] <Symmetria> and you can analyze those things and figure out where things are gonna go
[20:35] <trender> well yea but you follow the news channels not insider new
[20:36] <Symmetria> lol trender its not a game you enter lightly, and not a game you enter without the resources to cover you if you get it wrong 
[20:36] <trender> news
[20:36] <Symmetria> heh I follow the news, I follow people, I follow everything ;p
[20:36] <trender> off course mate
[20:36] <Symmetria> my standard browser has 18 different news sources open and auto refreshing every 10minutes 
[20:36] <trender> you need to up the ante if the stock moves the wrong way
[20:37] <trender> yes i get the picture thats the right idea ;P
[20:37] <trender> no other way
[20:37] <Symmetria> trender honestly, I would say that doing what I was doing ( before they banned the naked shorting) was nothing more than high stakes gambling
[20:37] <Symmetria> and I wouldnt advise anyone to do it 
[20:37] <trender> you need to hear a chinese butterfly fart in realtime
[20:37] <Symmetria> its educated gambling, but its still gambling
[20:38] <trender> correct we all gamble mate
[20:38] <Symmetria> people forget something about the markets 
[20:38] <Symmetria> they arent logical places 
[20:38] <Symmetria> and they react to very strange things
[20:38] <trender> correct and you need to be onto the media
[20:38] <trender> like yesterday
[20:38] <Symmetria> heh often what you would assume is gonna happen after one media release, is not what actually happens
[20:39] <Symmetria> yeah, the rand tanked *HARD* after a terrorism attack in boston
[20:39] <trender> yea yea correct
[20:39] <Symmetria> why? well, thats hard to figure out ;p
[20:39] <Symmetria> and 2 billion dollars got wiped out the other day when the bitcoin crashed
[20:39] <trender> depends which dirrection the sheep lean into the trend i think
[20:40] <Symmetria> now theoretically that shoulda actually helped the price of gold 
[20:40] <trender> eish
[20:40] <Symmetria> but heh, the bitcoin (which is an unsecured currency) crashed, and the safe haven which is normally gold (secured currency) dropped at the same time
[20:40] <Symmetria> which means that the money shoulda moved into the markets, that didnt happen either, and the markets got bitchslapped
[20:40] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:41] <Symmetria> it wasnt a pretty day ;p
[20:41] <Symmetria> anyway, sleep time :) chat tomorrow all
[20:41] <trender> ey you need just have the ammo to up the ante
[20:41] <trender> ait mate take it easi cheers
[20:43] <Trixar_za> Goodnite Symmetria
[20:53] <trender> highvoltage what sort of gambling do you do mate ?
[20:55] <trender> i used to gamble with a day job but that tanked hehe
[20:56] <trender> thank god the best thing i ever did was to gamble on myself rather then depend on the "way of the sheep"