[12:00] <warren-hill> Hi
[12:00] <freeflying> hi all
[12:04] <jared> !rmb
[12:04] <jared> Hmmm that might need updating as well
[12:05] <Pendulum> that definitely needs updating
[12:06]  * cjohnston yawns
[12:06] <Pendulum> Right, we have quorum so let's go :)
[12:06] <Pendulum> #startmeeting
[12:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 17 12:06:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[12:06] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[12:07]  * Destine is here.
[12:08] <Pendulum> Welcome to the April 17, 2013 12:00 Membership Board Meeting. When I call your name please introduce yourself including links to your launchpad and wiki pages.
[12:09] <Pendulum> As a reminder, only board members may vote on applications, but people are welcome to cheer for applicants they support when that applicants application is being evaluated.
[12:10] <Pendulum> #voters Pendulum, Destine, micahg, jared, freeflying
[12:10] <meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum freeflying jared micahg
[12:10] <Pendulum> Also, I'd like to welcome freeflying as one of the newest members of the membership board :)
[12:10] <Pendulum> pietro98-albini: are you here?
[12:11] <freeflying> Pendulum: thanks
[12:11] <pietro98-albini> Pendulum, yes
[12:11] <Pendulum> #topic Pietro Albini's Application for Membership
[12:11] <Pendulum> pietro98-albini: please introduce yourself :)
[12:11] <pietro98-albini> Hello everybody, sorry for my bad english :)
[12:12] <pietro98-albini> I'm Pietro Albini, a 14 years old italian boy
[12:12] <pietro98-albini> I started to contribute to the Ubuntu community in may 2012, into the Italian LoCoTeam
[12:13] <pietro98-albini> I manage the Ubuntu italian LoCoTeam website (http://www.ubuntu-it.org/) since may 2012
[12:14] <pietro98-albini> I made a lot of pages in the website, and with new Ubuntu release I release new site brand
[12:15] <pietro98-albini> I had the Ubuntu italian LoCoTeam membership since january, and since march I write for the LoCoTeam newsletter
[12:15] <pietro98-albini> When I've some free time I triage some bugs (very few)
[12:16] <jared> Thanks for the introduction, we're just reading over your application
[12:16] <jared> Is there anyone here to cheer pietro98-albini ?
[12:16] <pietro98-albini> jared, i don't finish yet
[12:16] <pietro98-albini> :)
[12:16] <jared> Sorry, please continue
[12:17] <pietro98-albini> The italian LoCoTeam is going to launch a new support system (the italian version of askubuntu) and I help to realize it
[12:17] <pietro98-albini> Probably I will admin or mod
[12:17] <pietro98-albini> https://launchpad.net/~pietro98-albini
[12:18] <pietro98-albini> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PietroAlbini
[12:18]  * pietro98-albini finished
[12:18]  * wickedpuppy claps , very good intro pietro98-albini  , well done!
[12:19] <smartboyhw> Erm I always appreciate (or push) teenage contributors to get Ubuntu membership, and I think pietro98-albini deserves it:)
[12:19]  * smartboyhw is same-aged as pietro98-albini after all.
[12:19] <jared> pietro98-albini: you mention that most of your contributions are to your loco but launchpad shows you only joined in January this year, is that correct?
[12:20] <smartboyhw> jared, um that's a bit different (if you look at Launchpad)
[12:20] <pietro98-albini> jared, Ubuntu Italian LoCoTeam have two teams, ~ubuntu-it with all contributors, and ~ubuntu-it-members with members
[12:21] <pietro98-albini> pietro98-albini, I entered in ~ubuntu-it when I entered in ~ubuntu-it-www, and I entered in ~ubuntu-it-members in january
[12:21]  * pietro98-albini finished
[12:22]  * pietro98-albini cannot use correctly quoting
[12:23] <Pendulum> pietro98-albini: is there anyone around who could come cheer in support of you and how long you've been working other that the person who wrote your wiki testimonial?
[12:23] <pietro98-albini> hallino1 ?
[12:24] <jared> I just don't know what is involved in the other items you have listed on the wiki (other than the newsletter posts) and without more testimonials it's difficult to know how involved it is.
[12:30] <warp10> I'd like to speak in favor of Pietro. I met him within the Italian LocoTeam, and despite his age I have been impressed by his skills. I definitely recommend Pietro for the membership
[12:31] <micahg> warp10: can you speak to his level of contribution in the past before January?
[12:32] <warp10> micahg: sure, I met him in person during the ubuntu-it meeting in october 2012 (and he was already active in the community)
[12:32] <Pendulum> I think we're ready to vote
[12:32] <almaidinajad> I'd like to speak in favor of Pietro, too. I work with him in the Italian team that is responsible for the website. He never stop of working and everytime I'm in trouble there he is. I reccomend Pietro for the membership.
[12:33] <Pendulum> #vote
[12:33] <meetingology> Please vote on:
[12:33] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:34] <Pendulum> +0 I'd really like to see you come back in a couple months with more testimonials for how long you've been contributing.
[12:34] <jared> +0 I would like to see more detail about the sustained contributions to the Italian Loco website. I'm unable to see much activity earlier than January and there is very little detail in the small number of testimonials.
[12:35] <Destine> +0 more testimonials would be better.
[12:36] <freeflying> +0 if coming with more testimonials would make the application more persuasive
[12:36] <micahg> +0
[12:36] <Pendulum> #endvote
[12:36] <meetingology> No vote in progress
[12:37] <jared> pietro98-albini: I don't think we're saying you haven't contributed but it's hard for us to determine with the application as it currently is. If you'd like to hang around after the meeting we can provide more specific pointers but essentially, we need to be able to easily identify significant and sustained contributions.
[12:37] <Pendulum> next applicant. warren-hill are you around?
[12:37] <warren-hill> Here: launchpad https://launchpad.net/~warren-hill, Wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Warren-Hill
[12:37] <warren-hill> I'm a design engineer. I develop embedded systems
[12:37] <Pendulum> #topic Warren Hill's application for Membership
[12:38] <warren-hill> I'm mainly active on the Luaunchpad Ubuntu Answers site and I have found and confirmed a few bugs, but can be found on AskUbuntu, and occasionally Ubuntu forums too.
[12:38] <warren-hill> In Launchpad I'm currently 11th for karma on Ubuntu overall and 3rd for answers
[12:38] <warren-hill> More rarely I'm here in #ubuntu trying to help out.
[12:38] <warren-hill> What else do you want to know?
[12:39] <jared> warren-hill: we'll just read over and ask some questions :) Good work on the multiple testimonials from existing community members btw.
[12:39] <warren-hill> thanks
[12:40] <jared> warren-hill: so your design engineering I assume is not for Canonical?
[12:41] <warren-hill> No I develop electronic test equipment.  Some Linux based but most no OS
[12:41] <jared> warren-hill: no worries, just checking. I know they work on that stuff to a degree.
[12:42] <warren-hill> If interested this is the sort of equipment I work on
[12:42] <warren-hill> http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti/psu-main.htm
[12:43] <wickedpuppy> can I ask what programming language is used? Assembly?
[12:43] <wickedpuppy> C?
[12:44] <warren-hill> A mix of ARM assembly and C mainly, but some DSP assembly too
[12:44] <freeflying> warren-hill: why are you on the no-canonical team? just curious :)
[12:45] <warren-hill> you mean not canonical? Just because in the past some people have assumed I am a Conanical employee on Launchpad
[12:46] <freeflying> warren-hill: ic, thanks
[12:47] <jared> warren-hill: I've had a browse through your answers and read the testimonials, thanks for that.
[12:47] <jared> warren-hill: on a side note, how do you find the state of LP answers these days?
[12:47] <warren-hill> Generally OK why
[12:48] <jared> warren-hill: just curious, there were those who thought it declined a little when askubuntu came around, etc.
[12:49] <warren-hill> You get some poor questions but then many people are new.  AskUbuntu can be intimidating to some users as they can get told there is already an answer when they need more hand holding
[12:49] <Pendulum> Okay, I think we're ready to vote
[12:49] <warren-hill> My AskUbuntu page is here http://askubuntu.com/users/107450/warren-hill
[12:49] <Pendulum> #vote Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
[12:49] <meetingology> Please vote on: Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
[12:49] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:50] <Pendulum> +1 keep up the good work!
[12:50] <meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from Pendulum
[12:50] <Destine> +1
[12:50] <meetingology> +1 received from Destine
[12:50] <freeflying> +1 please keep the great job :)
[12:50] <meetingology> +1 please keep the great job :) received from freeflying
[12:50] <jared> +1 Good testimonials, keep up the good work
[12:50] <meetingology> +1 Good testimonials, keep up the good work received from jared
[12:51] <Pendulum> #endvote
[12:51] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
[12:51] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[12:51] <meetingology> Motion carried
[12:51] <Pendulum> warren-hill: congratulations and welcome!
[12:51] <warren-hill> thank you
[12:52] <Pendulum> #topic Billy Aung Myint's application for membership
[12:52] <wickedpuppy> thats me
[12:52] <Pendulum> wickedpuppy: Please introduce yourself :)
[12:52] <wickedpuppy> let me intro . thanks Pendulum
[12:53] <wickedpuppy> Hi everyone , I am 30 years old male in Singapore
[12:53] <wickedpuppy> I started using Ubuntu in late 2005 ,
[12:53] <wickedpuppy> https://launchpad.net/~wickedpuppy
[12:54] <wickedpuppy> I am one of the initiators of Ubuntu-SG loco team and administrator of the team @ launchpad
[12:54] <wickedpuppy> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sg-team/+members#active
[12:55] <wickedpuppy> I am also irc admin for #ubuntu-sg ( /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-sg list )
[12:55] <wickedpuppy> I am also moderator for Ubuntu-SG loco subforum on ubuntuforums.org
[12:55] <wickedpuppy> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=433
[12:56] <wickedpuppy> I am also mailing list administrator
[12:56] <wickedpuppy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-sg
[12:56] <wickedpuppy> I am also the facebook page administrator
[12:56] <wickedpuppy> https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntu.sg/
[12:56] <wickedpuppy> you can see me there
[12:57] <wickedpuppy> I am also the web and domain administrator of ubuntu.sg
[12:57] <jared> Similar to the first applicant at the meeting, I'm struggled to be able to determine the significant and sustained contributions required to be a member. It's not that you haven't possibly done that but there isn't enough information available for me to draw that conclusion.
[12:58] <wickedpuppy> Sorry but being administrator and maintainer for local community isn't contributing enough?
[12:59] <jared> wickedpuppy: depends on the local community, if you can get some of the members to provide information on your contributions and length that would be the sort of thing I'd be looking for.
[12:59] <wickedpuppy> jared: we only have less than 200 members
[12:59] <wickedpuppy> only one ubuntu member , hyperair
[12:59] <wickedpuppy> we nearly died
[13:00] <wickedpuppy> we have just revived recently and are trying to get more members to the team
[13:00] <jared> wickedpuppy: I'm not suggestion they all need to :) Just with loco contributions it's really hard to guage involvement without some testimonials
[13:01] <wickedpuppy> I agreed. after all I could be hiding in the basement after registering the group
[13:01] <Pendulum> THey also don't need to be from ubuntu members. It helps if they're ubuntu members, but we do consider all testimonials.
[13:02] <wickedpuppy> then I think my chance are essentially 0. everyone would be too busy to come to irc even
[13:02] <jared> wickedpuppy: hyperair wouldn't be able to add a quick note to your wiki page?
[13:02] <hyperair> ohai.
[13:02] <jared> A couple of the others wouldn't be able to do the same?
[13:02]  * wickedpuppy spanks hyperair 
[13:02] <wickedpuppy> say something
[13:02] <hyperair> er
[13:02] <Pendulum> Testimonials don't need to be in English, btw.
[13:02] <jared> Gday hyperair , we're trying to ascertain wickedpuppy's contributions for Ubuntu Membership
[13:02] <wickedpuppy> lol .. something like wo ai ni :P
[13:03] <jared> They currently have no testimonials so I was saying it's hard to guage significant and sustained contributions to a loco without some sort of testimonial
[13:03] <hyperair> Pendulum: yeah well, i don't speak any other language as good.
[13:03] <warren-hill> They should not need to come on irc. Take a look at my wiki page can't you get a few users who know you to say similarly complementary things?
[13:03] <hyperair> well, what can i say, when i came to singapore, wickedpuppy was the ubuntu-sg team leader
[13:04] <Pendulum> hyperair: I menat that more in general about testimonials :)
[13:04] <hyperair> he led us for the SFD preparations since 2008
[13:04] <wickedpuppy> warren-hill: if they have wiki page account i would be very surprised ... Singapore team has less than 200 members in facebook and less than 20 active members
[13:05] <hyperair> wickedpuppy: well standard operating procedure for applying for membership -> wikipage writeup with testimonials.
[13:05] <wickedpuppy> hyperair: i know .. but you also know that would mean asking people to register for accounts
[13:05]  * hyperair went through it for my MOTU application as well.
[13:05] <jared> wickedpuppy: they can also send emails to the membership board if they would prefer
[13:05] <hyperair> yeah well, can't be helped.
[13:06] <Pendulum> Also, if any of them want to continue to contribute long enough to become members themselves, they'll need the wiki account eventually.
[13:06] <jared> wickedpuppy: or, if you have write ups of the SFD events you organised, providing links to those on your wiki page. Along with other links of events that you've helped organise, run, attended, etc
[13:06] <wickedpuppy> Pendulum: they are not interested
[13:07] <wickedpuppy> We just had a meetup with Jouni Helminen
[13:07] <wickedpuppy> one of the lead designers of Ubuntu Touch
[13:07] <wickedpuppy> guess how many came?
[13:07] <wickedpuppy> less than 30
[13:07] <wickedpuppy> and mostly none ubuntu-sg members
[13:08] <jared> wickedpuppy: it's not the number that's important. It's the effort involved. I have had less than 20 attend release parties myself.
[13:08] <wickedpuppy> that is on facebook
[13:08] <wickedpuppy> jared: we havn't have any release parties for ... actually we never had
[13:09] <hyperair> we had once
[13:09] <wickedpuppy> once?
[13:09] <hyperair> many years ago
[13:09] <hyperair> chew hosted it
[13:09] <wickedpuppy> ah
[13:09] <hyperair> you were there...
[13:09] <hyperair> wait, were you?
[13:09] <hyperair> i remember heidir
[13:09] <wickedpuppy> no idea
[13:09] <hyperair> okay if you don't remember then you probably weren't there.
[13:09] <wickedpuppy> yah
[13:09] <hyperair> we also had an ubuntu-sg release party at NTU under the NTUOSS
[13:09] <jared> wickedpuppy: I'm just using that as an example though. I'm just saying it's difficult for use to gauge the required significant and sustained contributions when there is just a description of what you've done.
[13:10] <wickedpuppy> jared: I understand. I am not saying its unfair. I am just saying it would be almost impossible.
[13:12] <wickedpuppy> well I think in that case the conclusion seems to be foregone. Perhaps I will try again future
[13:12] <wickedpuppy> Pendulum: pls
[13:13] <warren-hill> There may be another option testimonials can be e-mailed to: ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com  according to this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership.  So users don't need a Wiki page to let the board know how good you are
[13:13] <warren-hill> but they still need testimonials
[13:13] <hyperair> i think we need some of the older members to come out and talk about wickedpuppy.
[13:13] <Pendulum> wickedpuppy: we'd like to see you come back with more testimonials and more links to show what you've done. I'd suggest talking to hyperair since he's been through the process.
[13:13] <jared> hyperair: even some links to recent events/efforts/etc
[13:13] <wickedpuppy> Pendulum: thanks
[13:13] <wickedpuppy> jared: Thanks too!
[13:13] <Pendulum> we really do want you to come back when you have more info for us. We just don't have enough as is to make a decision :)
[13:13]  * hyperair was pretty new to the team -- we only met less than 10 times before the team more or less died out.
[13:14] <hyperair> then we came back once a year for software freedom day
[13:14] <hyperair> but last year the SFD committee disappeared
[13:14] <Pendulum> Okay, we're over time so I'm going to end the meeting.
[13:14] <Pendulum> Thank you everyone for coming
[13:14] <Pendulum> #endmeeting
[13:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 17 13:14:48 2013 UTC.
[13:14] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-12.06.moin.txt
[13:14] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-12.06.html
[13:19] <ActionParsnip> warren-hill: congrats dude
[13:19]  * wickedpuppy congrats warren-hill too
[13:19] <smartboyhw> warren-hill, congrats:)
[13:19] <warren-hill> thanks
[13:20] <jared> wickedpuppy: sorry we couldn't approve but we need to be able to see significant and sustained contributions as per the application information. I'd recommend trying to find links of events or other contributions and adding it to your page as well as trying to get a few people to give you a testimonial (via wiki or email).
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> jared: i don't know how to say ,
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> the last time there was some kind of event was in 2009
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> then the team sort of died
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> so all the info are lost
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> the only thing I left is the domain
[13:21] <wickedpuppy> and I had to ask every council for my accounts back
[13:22] <wickedpuppy> irc , ubuntuforum , so on
[13:22] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, the problem I think is tie *sustainable* thing
[13:22] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, when did it revive?
[13:23] <wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: with 5 min population with half of them foreigners , including me , substaining anything in Singapore is hopeless
[13:23] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, eh. Maybe you should go for other contributions in the Ubuntu community....
[13:23] <wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: this year , some people email me saying there is activity
[13:24] <wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: and risk losing the team if the admins are lost again?
[13:24] <wickedpuppy> Nick was lost
[13:25] <wickedpuppy> he was the team owner on launchpad , we had to ask the council to add back our active members as admin
[13:25] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, council = LoCo Council. Right?
[13:25] <wickedpuppy> yah
[13:25] <wickedpuppy> same for irc admin account
[13:25] <wickedpuppy> basically the only thing left was the domain ubuntu.sg
[13:26] <wickedpuppy> I kept registering and mailing list
[13:26] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, I'm an idiot in LoCo business (indeed, I never joined my LoCo in HK or the LUG or the Open Source community)
[13:26] <smartboyhw> It will be hard to sustain a team
[13:26] <smartboyhw> Especially when your country or region is small.
[13:27] <wickedpuppy> HK still got locals
[13:27] <wickedpuppy> Singapore is hard to find one
[13:27] <wickedpuppy> I think we both know
[13:27] <czajkowski> wickedpuppy: if you want the loco council can help, drop us a line or me and I can follow up later on
[13:27] <czajkowski> currently in the middle of work but will gladly help in any way we can
[13:27] <wickedpuppy> czajkowski: We got all the admins back thanks to every councils there is
[13:27] <wickedpuppy> irc too .. it was you right? tm_t too
[13:29] <wickedpuppy> anyways it was a great experience and everyone really was great
[13:29] <wickedpuppy> no regret. At least I tried.
[13:29] <wickedpuppy> much harder part is trying to find the agenda for next meetup for ubuntu-sg
[13:30] <smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, I really suggest you to try to advocate Ubuntu first:)
[13:31] <wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: nearly 8 years isn't enough?
[13:32] <wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: to put into perspective , LUGS ( Linux User Group of Singapore ) founded in 1994 by Red Hat country manager , was never more than 1000 members strong.
[13:33] <wickedpuppy> I know because I was their executive committee member too ... a long time back
[13:33] <wickedpuppy> thats the biggest Linux group in Singapore
[13:35] <wickedpuppy> its hard to pull people in
[13:35] <wickedpuppy> one reason is Singapore works long hours
[13:35] <wickedpuppy> My day starts at 6:45 am till 8 pm
[13:35] <wickedpuppy> in fact I was having dinner while the first person was doing intro
[13:36] <wickedpuppy> and I am on 24/7 standby .. which is pretty standard for sg
[13:39] <wickedpuppy> eh ah just to brag about how long I usually work , here is a article http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/asia/singapore/2010/01/12/240437/Survey-finds.htm
[13:41]  * wickedpuppy stop ranting ... sorry!!!
[13:42] <jared> wickedpuppy: no worries at all, (it's midnight here and I'm still studying for my assessment after starting work at 8am).
[13:42] <wickedpuppy> jared: then high 5
[13:42] <wickedpuppy> I just finished my part-time degree final exam last night
[13:43] <wickedpuppy> thankfully i won't have go back to school
[13:43] <wickedpuppy> and hopefully will get a better job
[13:43] <jared> wickedpuppy: nice work, I'm 10 modules into a 24 module master's degree so heaps more school for me.
[13:43] <wickedpuppy> so much modules? not MBA?
[13:44] <jared> Yeah, MBA
[13:44] <wickedpuppy> MBA with so many modules ... 1 year MBA ?
[13:44] <jared> No, 2 subjects at a time it's 2 years, 1 at a time it's 4
[13:45] <jared> They modules are 2 months each.
[13:45] <wickedpuppy> no kidding ... so long.
[13:45] <jared> Yep and all for 3 little letters at the end of your name :P
[13:46] <wickedpuppy> LOL... no not lol , MBA
[13:47] <wickedpuppy> so many things to do , so little time
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <stokachu> (>';')> <(';'<) <( ';' )>
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <doko> ?
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 17 15:01:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:02] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:02] <slangasek> xnox stokachu doko bdmurray stgraber jodh ev barry slangasek ogra cjwatson
[15:02]  * xnox win.
[15:03] <xnox> * commited symbols tracking for C++ touch stack for daily landing
[15:03] <xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/platform-api/hybris-symbols/+merge/158878
[15:03] <xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/qtubuntu-sensors/symbols/+merge/158884
[15:03] <xnox>   dpkg-gensymbols "(c++)" tag is awesome
[15:03] <xnox> * Fully build pyqt4 against qt5 in a PPA:
[15:03] <xnox>   Now needs a strategy for packages naming & coinstallability with
[15:03] <xnox>   pyqt4 build against qt4. Both use same namespace.
[15:03] <xnox> * Forwarded ubuntu-one ubiquity plugin screenshots to design for
[15:03] <xnox>   review (as per request from john lea)
[15:03] <xnox> * utah ISO image static validations fixes:
[15:03] <xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/utah/test-server-squashfs
[15:03] <xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/utah/wubi-is-in-raring
[15:03] <xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/qa-regression-testing/sb-make-pem-certs-1
[15:03] <xnox>   - Figured out with jdstrand how to verify linux-signed-image
[15:03] <xnox>   signatures, still todo write the utah checks for it. At the moment
[15:03] <xnox>   have a branch that shim & grub efi boot images are present, that GPT
[15:03] <xnox>   partition table exists & uefi boot images are present.
[15:03] <xnox>   - lp:~xnox/ubuntu-test-cases/desktop merged & setup to automatically
[15:03] <xnox>   test LVM2 daily desktop installs in jenkins
[15:03] <xnox> * openssl sru re-published
[15:03] <xnox> * Wrote a dh_acc addon to generate & compare api/abi library dumps
[15:03] <xnox>   using abi-compliance-checker. Contacted tedg for early testing &
[15:03] <xnox>   debian maintainers to include it in debian packaging.
[15:04] <xnox> * Merged wubi merge-proposals, planning to test quickly proposed changes in a VM.
[15:04] <xnox> ..
[15:04] <xnox> s/have a branch that/have a branch that checks/
[15:04] <stokachu> - no bugs on fire this week
[15:04] <stokachu> - looking for sponsor =) on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=705192
[15:04] <stokachu> - setup test ppa for OP on bug 1169740, waiting on feedback before posting SRU
[15:04] <stokachu> - i think bug 1094496 was somewhat verified but curious if I should wait for tester to re-test at their work environment where memory leak was seen. (re: #15)
[15:04] <stokachu> (done)
[15:04]  * xnox also helped with a bug around pre-seeding grub-installer...
[15:06] <doko> - GCC 4.6.4 and 4.7.3 releases, backports to precise and lucid (well lucid wasn'
[15:06] <doko> t necessary)
[15:06] <doko> - autopkgtests for python2.7 and python3.3. submit upstream issues about tests f
[15:06] <doko> ailing in the installed test environment
[15:06] <doko> - icedtea-web update
[15:06] <doko> - buildd watch ... test rebuild is now finished after 16 days
[15:06] <doko> - fix some more build failures
[15:06] <doko> - look into build failures with updated ecj, fixed openjdk so far. don't think t
[15:06] <doko> hat I can fix the other three ones
[15:06] <doko> (done)
[15:06] <doko> and starting with openjdk security updates again ...
[15:07] <bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity / upgrade bugs
[15:07] <bdmurray> escalation regarding th mirror - bug 1168299
[15:07] <bdmurray> searched for duplicates of bug 1163142
[15:07] <bdmurray> retested bug 1160441
[15:07] <bdmurray> research into bug 1058884
[15:07] <bdmurray> uploaded fix for release upgrader bug 1166346
[15:07] <bdmurray> uploaded fix for apport bug 1168126
[15:07] <bdmurray> setup error tracker in canonistack again
[15:07] <bdmurray> merge proposal for an errors api call for srcversionbuckets
[15:07] <bdmurray> worked on a branch to backfill the srcversionbuckets column family
[15:07] <bdmurray> code reviews for evan
[15:07] <bdmurray> SRU review of python-gnutls for P and Q
[15:07] <bdmurray> modified SRU report to show removal candidates
[15:07] <bdmurray> research into update-notifier's reboot notification and derivatives using update-notifier's tray applet
[15:07] <bdmurray> ⌁ done
[15:08] <ev> thanks for the reviews
[15:09] <slangasek> stokachu: bug #1094496> that's not a complete verification, the commenter hasn't confirmed the lack of leak in an environment where the leak is proven to happen
[15:09] <barry> bdmurray: yeah, i still can't wrap my head around what's causing bug 1058884
[15:09] <stokachu> slangasek: ok ill ping Hein again and see if they've had a chance to do so
[15:09] <slangasek> (commented on the bug)
[15:09] <stokachu> slangasek: ah you're fast
[15:10] <bdmurray> barry: I'd mentioned including or saving dmesg from the upgrade process, what do you think?
[15:11] <slangasek> bdmurray: so you retested bug #1160441 and it's "triaged", I guess that means the bug still exists after testing?
[15:11] <barry> bdmurray: i guess my main question is: if this is a reading-pyc-file race condition, then what other processes are running at the same time?
[15:11] <bdmurray> slangasek: correct
[15:11] <slangasek> jodh: ah, you're up, no stgraber today
[15:11] <barry> bdmurray: do you think the dmesg output would tell us that?
[15:12] <jodh> * blueprints:
[15:12] <jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
[15:12] <jodh>     - Updated lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/python-upstart-module as results
[15:12] <jodh>       of barrys excellent review (awaiting feedback from any of the devs).
[15:12] <jodh> * boot:
[15:12] <jodh>   - upstart:
[15:12] <jodh>     - bug 1157713: fixed and raised MP on
[15:12] <jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1157713-inotify-test-failures
[15:12] <jodh>       (awaiting feedback).
[15:12] <jodh>     - bug 1124384: continued investigations.
[15:12] <jodh> λ
[15:12] <bdmurray> barry: no, I was thinking that'd be useful for hardware issues
[15:12] <ev> Go get a ☕, this is going to be a long one.
[15:13] <barry> bdmurray: it's probably a good idea then, if nothing else, to rule h/w issues out
[15:13] <barry> ev: ping me when you're done. :)
[15:13] <ev> - Verified that we successfully back-populated the FirstError and ErrorsByDate
[15:13] <ev>   data for bug 1077122 in:
[15:13] <ev>   http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60205
[15:13] <ev> - Made a first pass at weighting the average errors per calendar day (jsfiddle
[15:13] <ev>   is wonderful, by the way):
[15:13] <ev>   http://jsfiddle.net/Ra4xT/1/
[15:13] <ev>   http://paste.ubuntu.com/5697852/
[15:13] <ev> - Code review for Brian:
[15:13] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/errors/newbuckets/+merge/158244
[15:13] <ev> - Followed up on the backfill of SourceVersionBuckets CF for Brian:
[15:13] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60732
[15:13] <ev> - Bug fixes for https://errors.ubuntu.com:
[15:13] <ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1167849
[15:13] <ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1167865
[15:13] <ev> - Meeting with Katherine to develop an NDA for https://errors.ubuntu.com
[15:13] <xnox> slangasek: bdmurray: i'm not sure, but i thought that we select locale based on the location, instead of installer language, but I might be wrong here. Also we had a similar bug with respect to country mirror selection (that one was done based on language instead of location) which is now tested for automatically on daily images.
[15:13] <ev> - Drafted guidelines for use and rules for approval for accessing the error
[15:13] <ev>   reports:
[15:13] <ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/Guidelines
[15:13] <ev> Friday:
[15:13] <ev> - Refactoring crash submission process as I build out the test suite and fix
[15:13] <ev>   support for kernel OOPS crashes:
[15:13] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/daisy/refactor-submission/+merge/158566
[15:14] <ev> - RT for hash-based bucket URLs:
[15:14] <ev>   https://portal.admin.canonical.com/60762
[15:14] <ev> - Looking at how we can better handle timeouts when writing reports to
[15:14] <ev>   Cassandra. Conversed with Tom about it and moved to a consistent 30 second
[15:14] <ev>   timeout. Beyond that, we've got bigger problems.
[15:14] <ev> - Testing refinements to the FirstError and ErrorsByRelease script.
[15:14] <ev> - Worked with webops to get some retracers processing the failed queue:
[15:14] <ev>   https://graphite.engineering.canonical.com/render/?width=1129&height=614&_salt=1365757153.811&target=daisy_servers.rabbitmq.messages.failed_retrace_amd64
[15:14] <ev> Monday:
[15:14] <ev> - Testing the fix for weighted average errors per calendar day is taking ages
[15:14] <ev>   (as of writing it timed out after processing 12.9 million reports of some 43
[15:14] <ev>   million, having run over the weekend), so I'm running the new totals with
[15:14] <ev>   what we have so far, since the denominator for the calculation is being
[15:14] <ev>   updated in the same process.
[15:14] <ev>   - Still not working properly ('Precise (again)'):
[15:14] <ev>     http://jsfiddle.net/Ra4xT/4/
[15:14] <ev> - Hash-based URLs for buckets on errors.ubuntu.com (RT 60762) deployed and
[15:14] <ev>   verified.
[15:14] <ev> - Updated errors.ubuntu.com to use the new hash-based URLs:
[15:14] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/errors/bucket-short-urls/+merge/158911
[15:14] <ev> - (Finally) finished up the code to rebuild the metadata about what Ubuntu
[15:14] <ev>   releases and binary package versions have been seen for each problem:
[15:14] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/oops-repository/bucket-versions/+merge/158946
[15:14] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/daisy/bucket-versions/+merge/158948
[15:14] <ev> - Helping Jane diagnose a Intel graphics / apport issue.
[15:14] <ev> - Investigating Disco (http://discoproject.org/) as a possible alternative to
[15:14] <ev>   Hadoop.
[15:14] <ev> - Fighting Canonistack, as per usual (out of security groups on lcy01):
[15:14] <ev>   https://eu1.salesforce.com/500D000000OTnPi
[15:15] <ev>   - James pointed me to the fact that juju doesn't delete security groups when
[15:15] <ev>     its done with them. So if you see this message, euca-describe-groups &&
[15:15] <ev>     euca-delete-group.
[15:15] <ev> - Catch up with James:
[15:15] <ev>   - Where we stand with the prodstack deployment: He's waiting until after
[15:15] <ev>     release to move Cassandra in as they're short on resource and it will be
[15:15] <ev>     the first big test of Ceph for them.
[15:15] <ev>   - Started to build out Hadoop to benchmark it against get_range() in pycassa
[15:15] <ev>     (given the multi-day queries listed above), but James and I did a quick
[15:15] <ev>     code review and identified some low hanging fruit to try first. He's also
[15:15] <ev>     keen on waiting until we deploy to prodstack after release before setting
[15:15] <ev>     off on benchmarking Hadoop, as he thinks it'll be far more interesting to
[15:15] <ev>     test the live performance characteristics and not canonistack getting
[15:15] <ev>     massively contented halfway through a benchmark.
[15:15] <ev> Tuesday:
[15:15] <ev> - Debugging and fixing bugs in the retracers for webops:
[15:15] <ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1169486
[15:15] <ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60844
[15:15] <ev> - Trying to write up some best practices / investigative work for writing large
[15:15] <ev>   Cassandra queries:
[15:15] <ev> - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/CassandraQueries
[15:15] <ev> - Code review for Brian:
[15:15] <ev>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/daisy/build-sourceversionbuckets/+merge/159006
[15:15] <ev> - Writing a unit test for the weighting of error reports since A) TDD, bro and
[15:15] <ev>   B) with the processing of 45 million error reports taking at least 10 hours,
[15:15] <ev>   isn't not exactly quick to test small changes to the way we weight the errors
[15:15] <ev>   on production.
[15:15] <ev> - Reviewing the draft NDA for errors.ubuntu.com.
[15:15] <ev> Wednesday:
[15:15] <ev> - Ongoing discussion on the draft NDA for errors.ubuntu.com.
[15:15] <ev> - Writing up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/DailyTasks
[15:15] <ev> - Deployed refactoring of error report submission to production (RT 60876).
[15:15] <ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60876
[15:15] <ev> - Deployed hashed-based bucket URL support to production (RT 60877).
[15:15] <ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60877
[15:15] <ev> - More work on the unit test for the weighting of errors. Refactoring as I go
[15:15] <ev>   to allow testing of all parts of this (submission, getting unique system
[15:15] <ev>   counts, and weighting).
[15:15] <ev> Outstanding RTs:
[15:15] <ev>  - Retracers failing inside apport-retrace due to http_proxy.
[15:15] <ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=60751
[15:15] <ev>    - We've fixed the issue and are processing all the errors that went into the
[15:15] <ev>      failed queue. This looks like it will take the rest of the month, unless
[15:15] <ev>      we get some prodstack-based retracers up and running soon:
[15:15] <ev>      https://graphite.engineering.canonical.com/render/?width=1129&height=614&_salt=1366017649.536&from=-14days&target=daisy_servers.rabbitmq.messages.failed_retrace_amd64
[15:16] <ev>  - Migrate cassandra nodes into prodstack
[15:16] <ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=60652
[15:16] <ev>    - See chat with James above. Blocked by the 13.04 release.
[15:16] <ev>  - Hadoop for daisy.ubuntu.com
[15:16] <ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=55518
[15:16] <ev>    - Blocked on the build-out of a secondary Cassandra cluster on prodstack, as
[15:16] <ev>      above.
[15:16] <ev>      - This arrangement is common practice, as running intensive Hadoop queries
[15:16] <ev>        will potentially have an impact on performance.
[15:16] <ev>  - Lets move the retracers onto prodstack
[15:16] <ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58019
[15:16] <ev>    - The priority on this has been increased, but it's still waiting for a
[15:16] <ev>      webop with spare time, according to Liam.
[15:16] <ev>  - Setup stagingstack environment for errors.ubuntu.com
[15:16] <ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58535
[15:16] <ev>    - This is partially waiting on me creating nrpe hooks, but according to Liam
[15:16] <ev>      there are a few webops tasks that still need to be done.
[15:16] <ev> Blocked:
[15:16] <ev>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1167415
[15:16] <ev>    - I haven't heard anything on this. I'll follow up at not-UDS.
[15:16] <ev> barry: done! :)
[15:16] <barry> ev: thanks! :)
[15:16] <slangasek> xnox: it might make sense to treat LC_TIME the same as LC_MESSAGES, given that it involves string translation?  cjwatson?
[15:16] <barry> bug 1102593. bug 1058884. bug 1078697 (awaiting sru approval for precise; landed in raring and lucid-cat). reviewed lcx c extension module for stgraber.  worked on click packages and chatted w/stgraber re: full image updates.  looked at/worked on various upstream python bugs affecting ubuntu (issue17712 - test_gdb failures; issue17759 - test_urllibnet failures; issue17012 - shutil.which() bug).  trying to squeeze in ffes for
[15:16] <barry> python-virtualenv 1.9.1 and pip 1.3.1 into raring (ssl downloads from pypi ftw).  done.  todo: ota image updates.
[15:17] <cjwatson> slangasek: Yeah, I was thinking something like that but hadn't gone off to analyse it yet.  It's unfortunate since LC_TIME kind of straddles the boundary here
[15:18] <barry> btw, the fix for bug 1078697 has been accepted into lucid-cat and should land on lp next wednesday i'm told
[15:18] <barry> done
[15:18] <cjwatson> shutil.which> oh, cute
[15:18] <cjwatson> 'bout time
[15:19] <barry> cjwatson: indeed.  it had a nice little bug triggered by your use case, now fixed upstream :)
[15:19] <cjwatson> I've had a version of that in the osextras module I carry bits of around everywhere for ages
[15:19] <cjwatson> (Also, holy adverb stacking Batman)
[15:20] <slangasek> ev: on bug #1167415, it might be worth adding more detail on which device you're testing on (since the kernel may vary across devices within Android), and also if it's on a device that we have an Ubuntu image supported on (like Nexus7 desktop preinstalled), to cross-check there?
[15:20] <barry> cjwatson: fwiw, the py3.3 implementation is not far from yours :)
[15:20] <ev> slangasek: will do
[15:20] <cjwatson> Heh
[15:21] <cjwatson> I seem to do this a lot - the current /usr/bin/which is a descendant of my code too
[15:21] <doko> barry, cjwatson: should 17012 be included in raring?
[15:21] <barry> doko: would be great if it were
[15:22] <slangasek> well, my report's real short this week
[15:22] <slangasek>  * driving the release checklist this week
[15:22] <slangasek>  * planning for the Oakland sprint
[15:22] <slangasek> (done)
[15:22] <ogra_> done:
[15:22] <ogra_>  * nearly finished the livecd-rootfs implementation which is now dropped after infinity vetoed the design in the last minute (and me apparently killing kapok.buildd completely with the first working build)
[15:22] <ogra_>  * looking into using a (currently 2.1G big) package to instead have the builds abusing a package builder which isnt ideal either and would require huge uploads or diffed tarballs from the various git trees at least...
[15:22] <ogra_>    (preferably i would just like an additional android cross build machine (simple desktop class PC) to simply build the source as intended by its creators but according to infinity thats not possible either due to budget.
[15:22] <ogra_>  * discussing if we should not better keep the android builds in jenkins/IBS completely
[15:22] <slangasek> sort of all-consuming bullet points ;)
[15:22] <ogra_>  * pretty frustrating week after all ...
[15:22] <ogra_>  
[15:22] <ogra_> todo:
[15:22] <ogra_>  * find a solution for that mess above ...
[15:22] <ogra_>  * sort out ESTA for sprint travel
[15:22] <ogra_>  * finally start looking into emulator work
[15:22] <ogra_> :wq
[15:22] <cjwatson> Finished initial app package installer prototype.  Currently shelved pending discussion (and probably 13.04 release).
[15:22] <cjwatson> Finished ghc transition. \o/
[15:22] <cjwatson> Fought Canonistack a bit; ended up submitting a support ticket for an apparently lost volume (though I should have a backup of everything important; this is for the auto-cross-builder).
[15:23] <cjwatson> Prepared LP branch for bug 1169627, to make queue review a bit easier.  Landing as I paste this.
[15:23] <cjwatson> Investigated bug 851562, for the same reason.  Looks as though it may require a database change.
[15:23] <cjwatson> Refreshed translations in various packages (ubiquity, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, debian-installer).
[15:23] <cjwatson> Reviewed various help pages for web team.
[15:23] <cjwatson> Merged installation-guide fix to update it to raring.
[15:23] <cjwatson> Digging into bug 1124384.  Making some progress, I think ...
[15:23] <cjwatson> Various bits of upload queue review.
[15:23] <cjwatson> Gave up on my dying N900 and ordered a Nexus 4.
[15:23] <cjwatson> ..
[15:23] <ogra_> i have a spare n900 here if you want to replace it :P
[15:23] <ev> speaking of the sprint, VS19 is quite the party plane.
[15:24] <xnox> cjwatson: join the Nexus club =))))
[15:24] <xnox> ev: i am not on it this time around =(
[15:25] <ev> :-/
[15:25] <cjwatson> ogra_: Heh, maybe - I should probably have a Nexus all things considered anyway
[15:25] <ogra_> hehe, yeah
[15:25]  * xnox is a black duck on a United Airlines flight.... I wonder if anyone flies on those at all =)
[15:25] <cjwatson> I think I'm on United
[15:25] <ogra_> the n900 is such a nice thing though ...
[15:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: well, it's a bit early to be thinking about dogfooding Ubuntu Touch on your primary phone :)
[15:25] <cjwatson> Yeah, UA931
[15:26] <cjwatson> slangasek: Well, yeah, but eventually :)
[15:26] <ogra_> slangasek, shhh
[15:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:26] <xnox> slangasek: cjwatson: at least nexus4 supports full-image phone backup over adb. thus it should be safe to reflash it with ubuntu touch and revert back. But I have yet to trust myself enough to do that.
[15:26] <slangasek> fwiw bdmurray and I discussed the question of how we're handling defect escalations, and concluded that it might be better to handle these by mail daily rather than in the weekly meeting - especially right now as we're so close to release
[15:27] <slangasek> so if you're getting mails from Brian about defects, please treat them with a high priority
[15:27] <slangasek> ok?
[15:28] <cjwatson> ack
[15:28] <ogra_> just because its brian though
[15:28] <slangasek> stokachu: and it sounded like things are under control on your side, right?
[15:28] <stokachu> slangasek: yea man, everything is caught up this week
[15:28] <xnox> cjwatson: i'm on UA955 somehow, yet there are 4 people in total on yours =/
[15:28] <slangasek> ok, great
[15:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:28] <xnox> ack on the bugs.
[15:28] <slangasek> anything else, then?
[15:29]  * slangasek throws people off balance with a half-length meeting ;)
[15:30] <xnox> I guess we can discuss and vote on the next code name, then ;-)
[15:31] <ogra_> yeah, its about time for a name ...
[15:31] <xnox> Squishy Salamander sounds ok
[15:31] <barry> squishy swan
[15:31] <xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#A13.10
[15:31] <cjwatson> Has somebody poked Mark about this already?
[15:32] <ogra_> you think he forgot ?
[15:32] <xnox> or one can look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#S
[15:32]  * ogra_ bets clan doesnt 
[15:32] <cjwatson> It's been getting later and later
[15:32] <ogra_> yup
[15:33]  * xnox giggles at Spastic Stallion
[15:33] <bdmurray> I thought ScottK had committed to poking
[15:33] <xnox> ScottK: do you know the next codename? =)
[15:34] <slangasek> Synalgesic Stegosaurus
[15:34]  * ogra_ votes for "end of edit conflict" ... that seems to be very popular for all releases
[15:34] <ev> ha!
[15:34] <xnox> Hmm.... with unity logo spinning clockwise, maybe it will be simply named SS.
[15:34] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on codename for s opening
[15:34] <meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to follow up on codename for s opening
[15:35] <slangasek> xnox: <facepalm>
[15:35] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:35] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 17 15:35:13 2013 UTC.
[15:35] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-15.01.moin.txt
[15:35] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-15.01.html
[15:35] <barry> thanks!
[15:35] <slangasek> thanks all!
[15:35] <ogra_> thanks!
[15:35] <xnox> slangasek: you should see all the "conspiracy" theories on G+ & OMGubuntu
[15:35] <jodh> thanks!
[15:35] <ev> thanks
[15:36] <ev> xnox: like how the community is being removed from Ubuntu because the new website doesn't have an entire section dedicated to it yet?
[15:37] <ogra_> yeah :(
[15:37] <ev> heaven forbid we try to coordinate the navigation structure across the community first, or let the community portal get built
[15:38] <xnox> ev: just wait for them to diff the pages and notice that "Debian" is not on the default front-page any more.
[15:40] <ev> xnox: don't get me started on the whole "Ubuntu is not a distribution. It's an operating system. Chrome doesn't put all the BSD libraries its built with on the home page." thing.
[15:41] <xnox> ev: but our homepage says that "ubuntu is an acient african word", not a "distribution" nor "operating system" =)))))))
[15:41] <ev> where?
[15:41] <ev> "Ubuntu is the world's favourite free operating system"
[15:42] <xnox> ev: "http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu"
[15:42] <xnox> "About Ubuntu" at the bottom of each page.
[15:42] <ev> ah
[15:43]  * xnox totally fails to read the homepage's largest font and instead opting in for small-print
[15:45] <ev> :)
[15:47] <xnox> reminds me Hiscox ads "T&C the scariest letters in the English alphabet"
[15:47] <ev> ha! I haven't seen that one
[17:31] <xnox> ev: they do cool billboards: http://www.hiscox.co.uk/shared-images/media_final_get-a-quote_568x224.png        http://www.hiscox.com/~/media/Images/H/Hiscox/Images/content/Joe-bloggs.jpg?w=558&h=275&as=1
[17:31] <ev> nice!
[22:49] <ScottK> bdmurray: Not me.
[22:53] <bdmurray> oh maybe it was Scott R