[00:02] Guest78104, Here is my stock list I did not save your link of yours. http://pastebin.com/qn5katdS [00:02] my tip to the developer community is: make notes in alpha and beta software that inform uninformed testers what is supposed to not work. when i decided to check canonical partners in 'software & updates' i had no clue it was not supposed to be checked. [00:03] you where right w-n. it was the partner [00:03] Guest78104, Ah, good, the fun of running a development. ;) [00:03] i would never have guessed [00:03] took me 2 days, lol [00:04] and when you do stuff you expect to work but dont check it right away [00:04] .... [00:04] say no more [00:05] i think the developers could either just hide functions that is not yet ready. or atleast make notes in software [00:06] wilee-nilee: thanks alot for the help [00:06] Guest78104, No problem. ;) [00:07] Guest78104: you could file a bug about that specific issue [00:07] where? how? [00:08] run ubuntu-bug software-center [00:08] does it involve registering? [00:08] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs [00:08] yes, you need a Launchpad or Ubuntu One account [00:16] so much stress, ill have to think about it. would be much more interesting if one could report problems anonymous through a application i ubuntu. i dont even know if this is a bug or if it is supposed to be like this since it is a beta OS i am using [00:17] common people dont want to get technical [00:23] a no need for registration 'report bug' application where you choose what application or other feature you have problems with and a prompt for short description and log files automatic attached by chosen software/feature would be great. [00:24] there should be no need to search all over the net to find such solutions [00:31] there is one more issue i have many times wondered about. why on earth under installation do you have to enter the city/home place before you choose input/keyboard language? most languages have special characters in city names and places. would it not be natural to be able to write those characters when you enter your city name? [00:35] Guest78104: That would make logical sense... figuring out the keyboard type *before* you have to type.. [00:35] I need help with nvidia settings on 13.04. I get the settings all the way I want and save the file, but when I reboot it goes back to default. Im a massive newb and need help :( [00:35] exactly, why has it always been the other way around? [00:35] beats me [00:36] what i call a epic fail [00:37] Is it specific to Ubuntu? Or is Ubuntu using an installer from upstream? [00:38] Fishscene: I have no clue. But I guess the installer is ubuntu made [00:39] Is the anyone available that has experience with nvidia cards and setting custom resolutions? [00:40] GRIM-butt: You might try to make a generic question on #ubuntu [00:40] I did they sent me her e:( [00:40] Guest: He's using 13.04 beta [00:40] I should probably switch to a non beta build considering I essentially have no idea how to do anything but the basics with unbutu [00:41] The second something doesnt work right im stumped [00:41] GRIM-butt: have you experience with earlier versions of ubuntu? [00:41] Like I said, very slight [00:41] The problem is that the settings dont seem to carry over from a reboot [00:42] i dont have nvidia on my laptop so i really cant help [00:42] :( [00:42] heh. Yea, I'd recommend Ubuntu 12.10. :) Beta's are really only for bug-testing, so it's bound to have unfixed quirks. [00:42] Ok ill reinstall with 12.10. Im sure the same issue will arise but then the other guys get to help me :) [00:42] Quick question though... How are you making the changes? Through terminal? GUI? [00:42] Thanks :) [00:42] gui [00:43] if i remember correctly you should not have to save any thing [00:43] Hmmm [00:43] hmmm... the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to try to launch the GUI with sudo, make the changes and reboot. [00:43] I tried that, the xorg.conf reflescts the changes, but its like its not even using that on boot... [00:43] you should just do the changes in the nvidia manager or what it is called and the it should be set [00:44] Guest78104: Yeah thats what I feel as well, but alas its not working as such [00:44] Im going to make a 12.10 install stick and see what happens. [00:44] Sounds good. Thanks for asking here though. Maybe a developer will pick up on it and look into it. :) [00:45] you have installed the recomended thirdparty driver? [00:46] Guest78104: Yes [00:46] That alone took me like 3 hours to figure out lol [00:46] Im exagertaing of course [00:47] :) [00:47] i am very noob despite i have been using ubuntu more or less since 7.04 [00:48] i am more interested in plain use than troubleshooting and terminal voodoo :D [00:48] No worries mate. It takes people from all walks to make things work well. :) [00:49] yes sir [00:53] GRIM-but: you have nvidia settings manager installed? [00:55] GRIM-butt: you have nvidia settings manager installed? [01:03] Yes [01:04] Sorry for the delay, Was making a usb install stick [01:04] for 12.10 [01:13] I really hope this fixes the issue and everything works properly, cause not being able to watch TV is annoying the WIFE [01:17] GRIM-butt, the nvidia driver automatically drives the panel to its native resolution [01:39] Yes, thats not the issue. The native res is outside of the edges of the tv...so it needs to be adjusted. [01:42] GRIM-butt: Is it possible to set the picture mode on the TV? A lot of TV's have the ability to set things like "overscan" "full picture" "16:9", "letterbox", etc.. [01:43] Unfortunately no, this tv deos not ave these features [01:43] SADLY [01:44] If you change the resolution, does the picture show up properly on the TV? [01:44] Yes, till I reboot [01:44] Well once I adjust the resolution with nvidia settings [01:44] I wonder if it's possible to set those "TV" features in the NVIDIA driver? I'm shooting in the dark here a bit.. [01:45] Yes thats what I do, but they dont stick on reboot [01:45] Its ok though EFF it. It didnt work in 12.10. either [01:45] aha. ok. Have you tried running the GUI with SUDO? [01:45] Yup :) [01:46] criminy. Sounds like you're up a creek then :( [01:46] Nope, I forgot that I have an unopened copy of windows 8 [01:46] PROBLEM SOLVED [01:46] :( [01:46] err... Well yes, this particular problem might be solved... [01:47] I'm kind of curious now... I assume you tried the open source driver? [01:47] Yeah [01:47] and then tried Arandr [01:47] No luck [01:49] Is this a laptop or desktop? [01:51] Desktop [01:52] gotchya. Well, the best I can do now is hope a developer is able to resolve this at some point. [01:52] I have to go now. TTYL mate. === tor is now known as Guest19753 [02:00] i am trying to install the proper driver for my ATI radeon HD 2400 following this as the best google find: http://www.noobslab.com/2013/04/install-ati-amd-catalyst-drivers-in.html [02:02] i got one error during the first part of the install procedure regarding: libgl1-mesa-dri 9.1.1-0ubuntu2 but when i tried to reinstall it i get message it is already latest version. so i continue with the two next steps in the procedure and get no more errors [02:03] but after install there is no amd catalyst in bash [02:06] ok, i found it with file search. but i get this: there was an error launching the application [02:20] this is the log file when i run the .run file downloaded from the ATI site: http://pastebin.com/m91iNE4k [02:30] the line above is when i follow this steps: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-ati-radeon-hd-2600-drivers-in-ubuntu.html [02:30] so, is it possible to get some more help here? [02:34] my system works with out this driver but i am not able to play 0ad without a proper 3d driver [03:35] the nvidia driver has an overscan feature in nvidia-settings [03:46] speaking of nvidia, anybody running the nouveau driver? I had 3 unity crashes in 30 minutes and tons of weird graphic frustrations. [03:46] Installed nvidia 313 updates and 100% of my issues went away... [03:47] well, it varies depending on hardware [03:47] i'm not sure if unity is the best environment to run it in [03:49] to run what in [03:49] nouveau [03:49] yeah :( [03:49] I want to root for nouveau too [03:50] but when I have less issues on Win ME than I do Nouveau/Unity it's hard to lean that way [04:17] week until final, how has it been treating you guys? [04:18] much better than last month when I tried it [04:18] last month apport was coming up every 2 flipping minutes [04:18] cool [04:18] I hate that [04:18] nouveau was a headache as I mentioned earlier but with nvidia drivers things are great now [04:19] I remove apport on all installs [04:19] good to know for my xbmc box [04:19] I thought about doing that [04:19] I'm trying to let apport on this time [04:19] figure if it helps devs it'll ultimately help me (pending it doesn't irritate me every 2 minutes) [05:00] well that was painless [05:00] upgraded two machines with no stoppers [05:17] apport is nice otherwise but it takes *forever* to construct the bug report [05:18] probably consequence of having been written in python [05:19] I took a look at the crash report once and it was all text and I guess it base64-encodes the core dump or whatever in the file. Perhaps that is the slow part. I am just guessing though. All I do know is that once a program crashes, apport spends half a minute at 100% cpu use before it pops a dialog. [05:19] so yeah I uninstall it too [05:23] * darthanubis hmmm [05:24] apparently removing apport does not break the system [05:24] ? [05:24] yep [05:24] cool [05:24] I remember the days before apport [05:25] it usually howlers after fresh install, but then after a few checkboxes here and there, I never hear from it again [05:26] It will popup on any problems if you have any 3rd party stuff it is irritating, it has been buggy in the past, probably still is. [05:27] alright, so I've been following raring on my development test laptop [05:27] and the unity launcher is no longer coming up. [05:28] basically after logging in all I get is my desktop background with whatever icons I had strewn accross the desktop. No launcher, no top bar...just the desktop. [05:28] this was after a most recent apt-get upgrade today after apparently weeks of not having done so. [05:29] I'm able to ssh to the laptop just fine to look at logs and such. [05:29] I'm just not sure where to start with debugging unity [05:29] chiluk, you have a nvidid card [05:29] nvidia [05:30] I'm running bumblebee [05:30] so intel + nvidia [05:31] chiluk, Ah, where did you get the drivers for the card? [05:31] the repo. [05:31] let me double check. [05:31] cool, some will download form nividia and a kernel upgrade will break the drivers. [05:31] from* [05:32] yeah I'm a bit more savy than that. [05:32] I figured as such. ;) [05:37] Good morning [05:45] do you guys card reader work? [05:48] I had to disable mine for eating too much juice [05:51] chiluk: dpkg --configure -a is a good first step when debugging apt-related problems. Sometimes the update terminates mid-way. The next step is to make a new user account and log in with that, see if that works [05:52] if it works with new user account, it's some configuration issue most likely. Those are annoying but nothing a few random rm -rf's won't fix [05:52] if it doesn't work with that either then logs of the x session must be located and read for clues [05:52] Alankila guest fails similarly [05:53] hmh. Sounds like a problem at the system level then not configuration. [05:53] the var/log/xorg.0.log shows no errors [05:53] I did get some random corruption that e2fsck claims to have fixed. [05:53] nah that file is not the one either. I think it might be ~/.xsession-errors [05:53] do you know the magic to tell apt or dpkg to go check the install [05:53] ah? Perhaps you might want to install debsums and let it check everything [05:54] Alankila thanks for the thoughts... we'll see how things go. [05:57] I've for long thought that we shouldn't have a / filesystem. We should have some fuse mount that reads list of installed packages and pretends every one of those has been decompressed to a filesystem, without actually doing so. Then a layer could be applied on top of it to allow /home to exist, and some specific files like /etc/passwd.d/ that would contain file per user, through some overlay mount [05:58] at least it would be rather interesting system if not exactly practical. There are far easier ways to achieve something like this though. Like only ship read-only system images like android does. [05:59] install will take something like 20 seconds because it only takes 20 seconds to write 2 GB of stuff on a harddisk. There are no upgrade problems, they are simply not possible. [06:00] alankila sudo lightdm restart from a virtual terminal shows Failed to use bus name org.freedesktop.DisplayManager, do you have appropriate permissions? [06:00] hmmh... dbus dead? I have no idea what is wrong though. [06:00] dbus being dead would probably greatly hamper unity and the toolbar [06:02] have to go to a meeting right about now. [06:03] alankila++ thanks for the thoughts... [07:05] Alankila, debsums yielded nothing of consequence, but my kern.log is spammed with ata errors. looks like hd issues. [07:05] strange that everything works except for dbus and unity [07:06] hmmh. Okay, well that would do it I guess. [07:07] Perhaps time to do smart long self-test and see what it says. [07:14] Alankila , time to back up /home, upgrade firmware, then do self-test [07:18] harddisk firmware? that is one dangerous operation. [07:29] hi. is there a reason there is no eclipse 4.2 package in ubuntu? [07:39] i read somewhere that there are licensing issues with eclipse? but archlinux also packages the most recent version... [08:03] hi all, in raring, as of latest kernel update i've lost hdmi audio from my radeon card, is this known/expected? [08:03] i have radeon.audio=1 as a kernel arg === slinnky is now known as BukitBitking === BukitBitking is now known as CENTRALBANKER [10:04] Wonder whether anyone has documented the process of installing Ubuntu in a VM that has access to one(+) gpt partition, creating (1-disk) partitionable raid1 on that with /boot on md_d0p1 and lvm on md_d0p2 and then finally booting the result on bare hw? Done that a few times, wonder whether the steps needed should be written down... [10:04] nonix4 you want to write a blog about your experiences? [10:05] blog / article [10:05] might if there is demand for such info... bit low on time tbh :) [10:07] nonix4 write it and submit it http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/category/how-to [10:07] Result of those steps is such VM image that it can be booted both inside VM and on bare hw without changes, which is pretty nice thing to have. With actual raid1 mirroring being trivial to add if/when needed. [10:11] hi all, I can't install packages from gdebi because it says that the password is incorrect, but if I run sudo apt-get in the terminal, it accepts my password, why is that? === CENTRALBANKER is now known as USA [10:39] My pulseaudio process is running at 100% CPU load since the last update. Anybody else having this issue? [10:46] screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/kO0x81b.png [10:57] huumm has the top right icon (the one you shut down from) changed color by default? [10:58] 'cause it turned orange here after updating today which well it sucks because it doesn't fit with my theme :P [11:06] anyone? [11:47] Hmm... why are there two identical-looking checkboxes of raring desktop/server in testdrive? [11:51] Hiyas all [12:58] I'm beta testing a steam game that was working ok till yesterday but with today's mesa updates it crashes [13:00] basically switching from 9.0.3 to 9.1.1 broke it I guess [13:22] hmm, "Bootlader install failed" does not allow input to the "Choose a different device to install the bootloader on" box? [13:23] Bootloader* [13:38] How do i add a multi-name SSID to the /etc/network/interfaces file? [13:38] ie a name with spaces in it [14:32] hello [14:33] do you think there already is an iso? [14:33] there is an iso [14:33] not officially [14:33] there's daily's [14:33] yes, but i mean the definitive one [14:33] the one which will be officially release on 25th [14:34] pino: show some patience :/ [14:34] well [14:34] pino: if you dont have the patience go for the last daylies. or wait for the release day [14:35] but the official release must be ready [14:35] come on [14:35] pino: no [14:35] they are testing it [14:35] strange [14:35] just use the last testing isos [14:35] so the latest dayly will be the official release? [14:36] pino, You are obviously not familiar with this. ;) [14:36] pino: + any updates between now and 25th [14:36] i dont know what is gonna be changed until releaase [14:36] wilee-nilee: no really [14:36] pino: just install the last testing iso. it will update to the final release anyway [14:36] i 'd just like to know what the final release is based on [14:36] pino: if you install now and update then u will have the release by the 25h [14:37] philinux: really? [14:37] yes [14:37] pino: it will be based on the last working testing iso [14:37] philinux: so everything is frozen now [14:37] It'll be based on what we have now. There will be iso changes commit up until the time of the release on the 25th. [14:37] pino: bug fixes [14:37] ok [14:38] At this stage, you'll likely see high-profile bug fixes and installer fixes. [14:38] pino: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule [14:38] i just wonder if the update on 25th will be as smooth as if i had installed the latest release [14:39] usually updates from non-final to final are critic [14:39] pino: nah [14:39] not at this stage [14:39] It's all pretty much incremental if you do upgrade/dist-upgrade every day or so [14:40] pino, You are reasoning with dichotomies and assumptions. [14:40] wilee-nilee: i believe in god [14:40] pino, there isn't going to be anything different between the daily today and the final release , and as Pici and philinux indicated that will update and upgrade when it's ready. IME the last upgrade is usually very small and anticlimactic [14:40] I installed raring on this lappy 3 months ago. I update each day [14:40] pino, lol. [14:41] err anything much different [14:42] pino: also anyone upgrading from 12.10 to 13.04 on the 25th as opposed to a clean install will encounter a long drawn out process cos of pressure on servers [14:42] BluesKaj: do you know if libfuse is still 2.9.0? [14:42] that'll be fun, won't it? [14:43] i hope they will update the library as ntfs-3g has a bug when using that version [14:43] I have Raring installed for one reason: it uses a newer Intel GPU driver. [14:43] The one in 12.04/12.10 constantly crashes on me. This one does not. [14:44] otend: is it a new driver for old stuff or a new driver for new hw? [14:44] Anyone noticed raring using much less memory [14:44] Intel HD 3000, so quasi-old [14:44] pino, yes it's 2.9.0-1 [14:45] it was a bit of a shot in the dark; I ran Arch for a while, and had no crashes, yet 12.04/12.10 constantly broke on me. I guessed that this was because of software newness, so I upgraded to Raring and boom, fixed. [14:45] so my upgrade could be a lifesaver or make everything worse [14:46] philinux, overall the cpu and gpu on my system fans don't seem to be as active as evn a few eeks ago [14:46] weeks [14:47] BluesKaj: I got FF with a few tabs and xchat and conky reports 628 ram before it would be 800+ (64 bit by the way) [14:48] this is ubuntu running unity 3d [14:49] cpu idling at 3% too [14:50] depends what you have open [14:51] BluesKaj: me just comparing FF and xchat open to previous weeks [14:53] I always have FF open with 3 fav sites , konversation, and maybe the terminal . KDE here , but i'm not using any less memory , about 1G altho the cpu load is definitely lower bu 10% or so [14:59] also using raster rather than native for Qt graphics === slinnky is now known as BOOMSHAKALAKA [15:05] WHOOO I don't know if 13.04 did it or the Xorg-edgers crew, but for the first time in almost a year i can use an external monitor on my laptop! [15:07] thebishop, 13.04 kicks ass [15:07] excellent development... makes me want to focus my coding on ubuntu devel [15:08] hi [15:11] thebishop, odd , was 12.10 not providing a monitor output ? [15:15] BOOMSHAKALAKA, hell yeah. as usual there isn't one BIG change, but this one already feels far more polished than any recent release [15:15] BluesKaj, I'm running a laptop with hybrid graphics and the hdmi port only works with the dedicated card [15:16] BluesKaj, i used to be able to get it working in 12.04 by fiddling with vgaswitcheroo [15:16] but it would never work in 12.10, and until recently in 13.04 [15:16] thebishop, what about the VGA out . did you try that ? [15:17] BluesKaj, my laptop doesn't have vga [15:17] ok [15:17] maybe through some displayport adapter, but i don't have one and never tried it [15:17] you read that right: Displayport on an HP laptop [15:17] Envy14 [15:18] hdmi is more convenient anyway [15:18] totall [15:18] y [15:18] hdmi is the best port since usb imo [15:18] i like thunderbolt too, but it's not clear that PC OEMs are going to adopt it [15:19] it would be great to be able to use my firewire audio recording interface on a modern laptop, but that might be too much to ask [15:19] firewire via thunderbolt i mean [15:27] Opengl 9.1.1 broke a steam game I'm beta testing [15:27] for intel cards [15:27] err the game is beta :) [15:28] BluesKaj: well yeah but it worked pretty much ok before the update [15:28] and now it crashes as sooon as I open a menu [15:28] since that one did not get updated [15:29] and since the devs already told me that mesa is problematic [15:29] Dark_light, which game ? [15:29] BluesKaj: Euro truck simulator 2 [15:30] someone on #kubuntu-devel was aaccusing a dev of mucking up mesa [15:30] yesterday [15:31] mucking up? [15:32] Dark_light, I think BluesKaj meant fucking up [15:32] that's all they said [15:32] !language | BOOMSHAKALAKA [15:32] BOOMSHAKALAKA: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional. [15:32] Pici, I think you meant !language | BluesKaj [15:33] BOOMSHAKALAKA: no, I didn't. Please mind your language here, no cursing. [15:33] borked is the technical term [15:33] mucking up is better it indicates a muddied sistuation [15:33] Pici, be quiet [15:33] philinux, yes [15:33] that's true [15:33] well I'm not sure if he applied any patches or something but sure as hell something's wrong with it [15:34] be it the packager's fault or a regression in mesa itself [15:34] what's wrong with mesa? [15:36] BOOMSHAKALAKA, I'm checking [15:37] when is 13.04 supposed to be released anyway? [15:37] something got ,as BluesKaj put it, mucked up I'm pretty sure it's GL support for sandy bridge [15:37] 25th [15:37] or it could be GL support in general [15:37] <-- mesa works fine here [15:38] could be sandy bridge I'm not running that [15:39] BOOMSHAKALAKA: well we should all run the same test to verify it, all I can say is that a game I'm beta testing worked mostly fine till yesterday night, this morning mesa was updated and now the game is seg faults [15:39] *that last is shouldn't be there [15:39] I would give more details if I'd knew how to fetch them [15:39] does freeciv use mesa? [15:40] It could but this game uses opengl 3.0 specifically [15:40] it's actually one of the main reasons I swtiched to ubuntu :-\ to get proper opengl support [15:41] Have you found a bug for this issue? [15:41] well it's a beta so you should expect shit to be broken occasionally [15:41] but yeah that's annoying [15:41] well yes but since the game has not been updated I don't think it breaks by itself [15:42] software sucks [15:42] Pici: well no, I haven't even looked that game is not yet out and mesa 9.1.1 is "new" [15:42] so I wouldn't even know what to look for [15:42] Dark_light: I mean a bug inUbuntu [15:42] OpenGL sucks. we should all switch to DirectX [15:43] directx and GNU/Hurd [15:43] real microkernel [15:43] trololol [15:43] why isn't there a Ubuntu Hurd yet? [15:43] BOOMSHAKALAKA: you talk to rms I handle the rest [15:43] Dark_light, did you do a backtrace on the segfault ? [15:43] haha, I actually hung out with rms a couple years ago [15:43] he's a donkey [15:44] BluesKaj: I'm not quite sure how to do it all I have is a .dmp file from the game which is unreadable [15:44] and are you sure it isn't opencl ? [15:44] he tried to get with my friend Sarah [15:44] BluesKaj: of that I'm sure [15:44] send that core dump to the devel that broke mesa [15:44] DCC it to him [15:45] hi there [15:45] Good afternoon [15:45] hi ysuire [15:45] BOOMSHAKALAKA: who's the dev? and what are .dmp files? [15:45] anyone has trouble with streaming radios on Rhythmbox since the beta ? [15:45] I dunno [15:45] the second question is because I'm ignorant :P [15:45] .dmp is core dump [15:46] when a program crashes it dumps core [15:46] an update to mesa is being published now [15:46] core dump is usually meaningless crap that devs ignore anyway [15:46] hggdh: with what changes? [15:47] Dark_light: hopefully, the fix to the sigsegv in X [15:47] but I will only be able to check this evening [15:48] hggdh: who's the maintainer? because I already tried talking directly with the guys at #dri-devl but they told me to git-bisect it [15:48] heh [15:49] frankly if there's already a decent maintainer I'd rather dump this kind of work to him :P [15:49] Dark_light: someone in #ubuntu-desktop. But, again, an update was uploaded a few ago [15:49] hggdh: I updated this morning (8 hours ago) to 9.1.1. [15:49] was that it? [15:50] anyone that cares about my question lol ? [15:50] because that is when the issues started :P [15:50] Dark_light: newset is 9.1.1-0ubuntu3. I think you are on 0ubuntu2 [15:54] hggdh: yep I'm on 0ubuntu2, do you think it could be related? [15:55] Dark_light: that's my hope. The only probable change I saw in term.log from yesterday was mesa being updated (twice). But I cannot check right now [15:55] hggdh: I fear a regression in mesa itself that'd be a pain in the ass [15:57] Dark_light: indeed. I know this caused an issue with Unity (crash on start); mine is a bit different, I can start a session, and some time later it freezes (but I am KDE) [15:58] Dark_light: another thing... this was a version upgrade (from 9.0.3 to 9.1.1) [15:59] hggdh: yes that's why I'm worried [16:00] also the game devs are not interested into supporting mesa at the moment because they say it's no mature enough and the mesa devs are too busy to care about something like this [16:00] heh [16:01] so yeah I'm kind of frustrated :-\ I really don't want to bisect mesa, also last time I tried to upgrade it I was on slackware and it was a HUGE pain [16:01] the idea of testing like 20 or so revisions makes me shiver [16:02] Dark_light: should not be painful under ubuntu; anyway, we can always back out to 9.0.3 (while it is still available) [16:03] hggdh: do you mean we as in me you and a few others or we as the whole community and stick to 9.0.3 for 13.04 ? [16:03] I'm kinda frustrated too because i asked a question something like 20 minutes ago and it seems that nobody cares about it ... I'm sorry if i'm not an expert as you are but i thought it was an open community ... [16:03] Dark_light: I mean us right now, not the whole community. My issue is just getting my laptop in a sane state [16:03] (my issue right now) [16:04] hggdh: I've never downgraded anything with apt-get I have to look into it [16:04] ysuire: it *is* an open community; but it may happen that none of us know how to answer (I certainly do not, and I did see your question) [16:04] well that would be nice to know that someone saw the question [16:05] I don't use radios [16:05] i'm sorry if i'm not very friendly but well for a "still beginner" like me its a little frustrating to have no answer, not even "i don't know" (something i can understand you know) [16:06] just idle in the channel and ask again every now and then someone will answer ;-) [16:06] ok sorry i'm not used to IRC [16:08]