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meetingologyMeeting started Mon Apr 22 16:34:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:34
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:34
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:16:34
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:34
jdstrand[TOPIC] Announcements16:34
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
jdstrandnext week we'll be at a sprint and I believe the current meeting time is in conflict with a meeting at the sprint, so we'll skip16:34
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:35
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
jdstrandI'll go first16:35
jdstrandinstall audits went well last week, nothing surprising or particularly important16:35
jdstrandI'm on triage this week16:35
jdstrandI've got openjdk-7 updates for this week16:36
jdstrandalso monthly planning (april review, may planning)16:36
jdstrandand sprint preparation. if there's time, I'll take something off the list16:36
jdstrandsbeattie: you're up16:36
sbeattieI'm focused on workitems again this week, on the security-1304-appisolation-example blueprint16:37
sbeattieI'll specifically be working on the prototype launcher bits16:37
sbeattieas well as prepping for the sprint16:37
sbeattieand that's pretty much it for me16:37
sbeattietyhicks: you're up16:37
tyhicksI'm continuing work on the dbus regression tests from last week16:38
tyhicksthen I'll move to ' initial work to query confinement labeling of sender' and 'dbus daemon, pass labeling info on messages so security context can be queried by recipient'16:39
tyhicksI'll have some sprint prep, too16:39
tyhicksthat's it for me16:39
tyhicksjjohansen: you're up16:39
jjohansenI'll be running around in panic, err that is prepping for the sprint too16:40
jjohansenI have some bugs to finish chasing down, and then I'll be back to working on signals and other bits of ipc16:40
jdstrandjjohansen: what are those bugs in?16:41
jjohansenjdstrand: good question, I chased one down to my kernel, one to the library and I think one is in dbus, I need to verify that and if so I'll pull tyhicks in16:42
jdstrandheh, ok16:42
jjohansenjdstrand: oh! I should have said dev bugs :)16:42
jjohansenthats it from me sarnold your up16:43
sarnoldI'm working on the mysql update today, hoping to finish testing on it late today (those tests are immensely long, sheesh)16:44
sarnoldprobably publishing tomorrow16:44
sarnoldwhen I'm done with that, I'll look at bouncy castle, and if there's any time left, I may give a follow-up audit to one of the packages I NAKd for the forums; the company was kind enough to send me another version for review after fixing my previous complaints. (woo)16:45
sarnoldI'm also on community :)16:45
sarnoldthat's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn16:45
chrisccoulsonhi :)16:46
chrisccoulsonso, i spent a bit of time investigating one of the regressions that appeared in firefox 20. got a good handle on that now, but not sure there's much more we can do with it for now16:47
jdstrandchrisccoulson: what is the regression?16:47
chrisccoulsonjdstrand, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85878216:48
ubottuMozilla bug 858782 in Extension Compatibility "crash in uGlobalMenuDocListener::DoHandleMutations with GlobalMenu on Ubuntu" [Critical,New]16:48
chrisccoulsoni'm a bit concerned that if i fix the crash in our addon code, i'll just push the problem elsewhere16:48
chrisccoulson(see the last comment)16:48
jdstrandhuh, interesting16:49
chrisccoulsonyeah, i wonder if this has the potential to cause other problems16:49
jdstrandI guess we'll see what upstream says?16:50
chrisccoulsonyeah, i'm waiting for them to comment now16:50
chrisccoulsonalso, did some more work with chromium testing. trying to figure out if there's a way to make the installed test suite smaller (each test binary effectively links in a copy of the browser)16:51
chrisccoulsonwe also resolved some confusion regarding qtscript/webkit/v8/JSC :)16:51
chrisccoulsonand i'm currently trying to figure out why >100 firefox tests started failing over the weekend :(16:52
chrisccoulsonactually, make that nearly 200 ;) (191 to be exact)16:53
chrisccoulsoni think that's me done16:53
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages16:54
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.16:54
jdstrandSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.16:54
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions16:55
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
jdstrandI have one, jjohansen, sbeattie and tyhicks> can you comment on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-security-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html? I need to prepare the monthly work items status for tomorrow. are we on track to be done by friday/tuesday?16:56
jjohansenfor /me friday - no, tuesday maybe16:57
jdstrandjjohansen, sbeattie, tyhicks> and it you haven't already, can you update your work items16:57
sbeattiejdstrand: sure16:57
tyhicksjdstrand: 'dbus - update aa-logparser, including test' is not likely for Friday, but Tuesday is still a possibility16:58
tyhicksI think everything else is still on track for me16:58
jdstrandI'm not liking how I need to give a status update a week early... I will have to discuss that and/or modify our planning17:00
jdstrandsbeattie: are you on track to be done friday/tuesday?17:01
sbeattiejdstrand: yeah17:01
jdstrandok cool17:01
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?17:02
jdstrandsbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!17:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Apr 22 17:05:25 2013 UTC.17:05
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.moin.txt17:05
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.html17:05
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!17:05
sarnoldthanks jdstrand :)17:05
jjohansenthanks jdstrand17:05
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ubottubdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping18:29
bdrungmeeting in half an hour18:29
ubottubdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping19:00
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Apr 22 19:00:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired19:00
bdrung#topic Review of previous action items19:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
bdrungstgraber, barry, and laney said via mail that they (probably) won't attend the meeting19:02
ScottKBut we have their votes on the applications.19:03
ScottKShort version of the action items is no change, nothing done.19:03
bdrungi will do  the summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship as  soon as possible.19:04
bdrungwe can discuss the review separation of PPU from membership at the end of the meeting if time permits19:05
bdrung#topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein19:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
ScottKI'm ready to vote.19:06
bdrungglatzor doesn't seem to be online19:06
* micahg-work has questions19:06
* tumbleweed would be interested in chatting with the applicant, but I'm fairly sure I know how I'd vote19:08
bdrunglet skip him for now19:08
bdrung#topic PerPackageUploader Application: Gunnar Hjalmarsson19:08
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Gunnar Hjalmarsson
GunnarHjGood evening, DMB!19:09
bdrung#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj/PerPackageUploaderApplication19:09
bdrungGunnarHj: hi. can you introduce yourself?19:09
GunnarHjI started with Ubuntu in 2010, and instantly noticed that I wasn't able to (easily) set languages and regional formats to my liking. Noticed bug 553162, and started to work on it. Seems like I got stuck with this problem area. ;-)19:09
ubottubug 553162 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55316219:09
GunnarHjI'm an i18n bug fixer, and you may want to consider me an i18n watchdog, since I tend to jump at bugs in many different packages as soon I smell a problem with respect to language and locale handling etc.19:09
ScottKI'm ready to vote.19:09
GunnarHjlanguage-selector and accountsservice are the packages I most often come back to, and I know quite well by now what they do.19:09
GunnarHjI have a question: If you would accept my application, would it make me an ubuntu-dev member, or would that be a separate application? (It would be nice to be able to post to the ubuntu-devel list without moderation.)19:09
tumbleweedyou'd be an ubuntu-dev member (as things stand right now)19:10
GunnarHjtumbleweed: Great, thanks.19:10
micahg-workwell, I think we'd fix the moderation if we change the base dev group, but we can discuss that later19:11
GunnarHjI'm already an ubuntu-member and bug control member.19:11
micahg-workGunnarHj, have you collaborated with Debian at all WRT any of the i18n stuff and specifically accountservice since that's what you're seeking upload rights for19:13
GunnarHjWith Debian, yes absolutely, but not with respect to accountsservice since my interest there is Ubuntu specific stuff only.19:14
GunnarHjNot sold to Debian, at least not yet. :)19:14
micahg-workGunnarHj, the changes you're making only affect Ubuntu, not Debian?19:17
GunnarHjmicahg-work: Yes.19:17
micahg-workand I guess those get pushed straight upstream then?19:17
GunnarHjmicahg-work: Yes, but they are patches that Debian does not apply (at least that's my understanding).19:18
bdrungGunnarHj: are there any intentions to get the patches upstream? the latest package version contains 15 patches.19:19
GunnarHjbdrung: The most obvious one I tried to get upstream yet another level, but nothing has happened so far. GNOME seems not very interested in ideas from other distros...19:21
micahg-workGunnarHj, FTR, alessio is usually fine with Ubuntu specific patches being forwarded to Debian (might make the maintenance burden easier)19:23
bdrungGunnarHj: did you get no response or was the patch rejected?19:23
GunnarHjbdrung: Neither. Response, then silence.19:23
GunnarHjmicahg-work: I'll take your tip and try to do something about Debian.19:24
micahg-workGunnarHj, he might even be up for a co-maintainer19:24
bdrungsometimes you need to poke upstream more than once and sometimes improving the patch is required to get it accepted.19:24
GunnarHjmicahg-work: Ok.19:25
micahg-workGunnarHj, maybe desrt can help you get the patches upstream (I see him in the commit log)19:25
bdrunggetting patches as upstream as possible reduces the maintenance burden.19:25
micahg-workGunnarHj, are you familiar with the various freezes and exception processes?19:25
GunnarHjPlease note that the Ubuntu patches in accountsservice presuppose a different approach to part of language locale handling in general. It's a little complicated...19:26
GunnarHjmicahg-work: Yes. Know them quite well by now.19:26
micahg-workGunnarHj, sure, we just like to encourage applicants to collaborate with upstreams where possible to reduce the maintenance burden over time19:28
micahg-workGunnarHj, are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?19:29
GunnarHjmicahg-work: I fully understand and agree on the goal to reduce the maintenance burden.19:29
GunnarHjI'm subscribed to -announce.19:29
bdrungGunnarHj: you stated that you dislike the amount of bugs. I agree with you there. Do you have any other idea than throwing more man power at fixing bugs?19:32
bdrungthere are initiatives like DEP-8 and automated testing that seem to aim in the right direction.19:33
GunnarHjbdrung: Well, that would be to test more carefully before uploading, I suppose. ;-)19:33
micahg-workFTR, I think most of the bugs are really upstream bugs, there are too many, but no software is perfect19:33
micahg-workunfortunately, I think bug control membership has been about the same since I joined about 4 years ago, that certainly doesn't help19:34
GunnarHjAgree that the automated testing initiative sounds good.19:34
GunnarHjHaven't involved myself in it yet, though.19:35
bdrungat least bugs lead to people joining the developer teams. take GunnarHj or me as example. ;)19:35
GunnarHjIndeed. :)19:35
bdrunglet's vote19:36
bdrung#vote Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?19:37
meetingologyPlease vote on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?19:37
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:37
meetingology+1 received from micahg-work19:37
meetingology+1 received from tumbleweed19:38
meetingology+1 received from bdrung19:38
meetingology+1 received from ScottK19:38
ScottK+3 from mail too.19:38
meetingologyVoting ended on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?19:39
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:39
meetingologyMotion carried19:39
bdrungGunnarHj: congrats.19:39
ScottKCan we go over glaztor's application now like we would for an email vote?19:39
GunnarHjThanks guys! Won't misuse my new access rights. :)19:39
ScottK(there's no actual requirement the person be present)19:39
micahg-workno, since I have questions for the applicant19:39
bdrung#topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein19:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
micahg-workwell, I shouldn't say no, but I have questions for the applicant :)19:40
ScottKmicahg-work: He's already +4, so why block the application?19:40
bdrungScottK: we used to have the application on the meeting to ask questions19:40
ScottKNothing says you can't ask questions anyway.19:40
ScottKYes and so we'll defer it two week, he'll get at least +4 next time and take up an application slot that maybe someone else would use.19:41
bdrungbut what does asking question bring if you don't get an answer?19:41
micahg-workScottK, depending on the answers, people can change their minds...19:42
micahg-workand the vote needs +4 total, not just 4 +1s...19:42
ScottKThen we need to document that a meeting is required and votes can't be done over email.19:42
ScottKRight, but is anyone considering -1?19:42
ScottKI could image a +0, but really.19:42
bdrungmicahg-work: can we move the application to email?19:43
micahg-workemail votes are at the discretion of the DMB19:43
micahg-workbdrung, I suppose, should I send my questions by E-Mail?19:43
ScottKIf we can do it on email, why can't we do it right now?19:43
bdrungScottK: a meeting is normally required, but we can do it over email for special cases.19:43
micahg-workbdrung, is there a pressing need that it can't wait 2 weeks?  we usually do e-mail when it's difficult for an applicant to attend a meeting19:44
ScottKThere's never a pressing need and things keep getting kicked down the road.19:44
ScottKLook at the impressive DMB progress on open actions in the last two weeks.19:44
* bdrung promises improving on processing action items.19:45
bdrungI like to talk to glatzor on IRC before voting to hear his answers to micahg's question and to ask him questions.19:46
ScottKOK.  Looks like a victory for process over substance, but that's what some people think is important.19:47
bdrungthere are no applications for the next meeting and therefore I see no pressing need for moving the application to email.19:48
ScottKWill someone take the action to email glatzor and tell him we decided to wait two weeks.19:49
bdrungI propose to ask glatzor if he is fine with attending the next meeting or if he want to be asked via email to avoid the waiting time.19:49
ScottKSounds good.  Will you do it?19:50
bdrungokay, i will to it as part of the chair's duties.19:50
bdrung#topic Any other business19:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
micahg-workmeeting time change for 14:00?19:52
ScottKWhat about PPU/membership?19:52
ScottKI thought that was on the agenda?19:53
ScottKmicahg-work: Who asked for it to be changed?19:53
micahg-workI did19:53
bdrunglet's discuss the time change before PPU/membership.19:53
micahg-workwe took a poll, 15:00 UTC Mon seemed to be fine19:53
micahg-workunanimous in fact19:53
ScottKIt's fine for me.19:53
micahg-work13:00 was also on the poll, but I forgot I had a previous commitment19:53
micahg-workso, barring any objections, can we announce the new time for the early meeting?19:54
bdrungIIRC there was a question about using UTC or DST.19:54
micahg-workah, right19:54
micahg-workI'm not sure we settled that one, 15:00 UTC in the winter would be problematic right now19:55
bdrungdid we come to a conclusion there?19:55
micahg-workI'd prefer 16:00 london time if I had a choice19:56
micahg-workthat should work for me year round...19:56
micahg-workbut that moves the winter meeting 2 hours ahead of where it was19:57
bdrungso 16:00 and 21:00 London time? when do they switch the time?19:57
micahg-workhrm, that's the other problem I guess, US switches earlier/later than London19:58
bdrungWe switch at the last Sunday in March/October in Germany IIRC.19:58
micahg-workit's easier for me to remember UTC...but it's only 4 weeks out of the year that it's off19:58
micahg-worksame in London as Germany19:59
ScottKI'd suggest we either decide based on poll results or go back to the list since we're short three people.20:01
ScottKPersonally, I'm flexible.20:02
bdrunglet's sum it up20:02
micahg-work15:00 UTC works for now, need to decide if we're switching to GMT or keeping UTC20:04
bdrungThe proposal is to move to 15:00 / 20:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 14:00 / 19:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)20:04
micahg-workI'd prefer 16:00/21:00 for the winter20:05
* bdrung is confused with time zones.20:05
micahg-workBTW, the 19:00 meeting is fine for me ATM, unless there's a desire to keep 5 hours between meetings20:05
bdrungThe proposal is to move to 15:00 / 19:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 16:00 / 20:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)20:08
bdrungmicahg-work: i calculated the times wrongly. i didn't want to the the late meeting.20:08
micahg-workseems fine20:09
micahg-workshould we do a list vote?20:09
micahg-workbdrung, I can take an action item to call for the vote20:09
micahg-workI can also take an action item to poke about PPU/membership decoupling20:09
micahg-workunless ScottK wants the seocnd one20:10
bdrung#action micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times20:10
meetingologyACTION: micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times20:10
ScottKDon't we have a proposal we can vote on for the PPU thing?20:11
bdrungshould we move the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC?20:11
micahg-workScottK, ISTR there being some disagreement on a few points still20:11
micahg-workbdrung, I would prefer to move the meeting, yes (especially since the poll results were unanimous)20:12
ScottKmicahg-work: Give me a link to your last proposal and I'll take the action.20:12
bdrung(before getting a consensus on changing the schedule?)20:12
micahg-workScottK, ok, I'll have to do that when I get home, there should be a thread on the DMB list20:12
bdrung#action bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC20:13
meetingologyACTION: bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC20:13
micahg-workbdrung, yes, I think the UTC/GMT question is separate20:13
micahg-workI didn't see any conflicts on the fridge when I checked either20:13
bdrung#topic Decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership20:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership
bdrungmicahg-work sent a mail with the subject "Proposal to decouple PPU from Membership" to d-m-b@20:15
micahg-workbdrung, we've done that already, "micahg to give ScottK link to proposal and ScottK to move it forward"20:16
ScottKI found it.20:17
ScottKHaving the subject line helps.20:17
bdrungwe need to vote on it and then?20:17
ScottKI'll write a mail to the list.20:17
ScottKmicahg-work wanted to argue the color of the bike shed some more.20:18
ScottKLet me review and mail the list and we'll have a mail vote.20:18
ScottKSomething that important I think everyone should vote on anyway.20:18
micahg-workit needs a nice floral pattern!20:18
bdrung#action ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal20:20
meetingologyACTION: ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal20:20
bdrungnext chair will be Laney20:22
bdrungthanks for attending.20:22
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Apr 22 20:22:57 2013 UTC.20:22
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.moin.txt20:22
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.html20:22

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