[16:33] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:33] <tyhicks> hello
[16:34] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:34] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 16:34:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:34] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:34] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:34] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:34] <chrisccoulson> yo
[16:34] <jdstrand> next week we'll be at a sprint and I believe the current meeting time is in conflict with a meeting at the sprint, so we'll skip
[16:35] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:35] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:35] <jdstrand> install audits went well last week, nothing surprising or particularly important
[16:35] <jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
[16:36] <jdstrand> I've got openjdk-7 updates for this week
[16:36] <jdstrand> also monthly planning (april review, may planning)
[16:36] <jdstrand> and sprint preparation. if there's time, I'll take something off the list
[16:36] <jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'm focused on workitems again this week, on the security-1304-appisolation-example blueprint
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'll specifically be working on the prototype launcher bits
[16:37] <sbeattie> as well as prepping for the sprint
[16:37] <sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me
[16:37] <sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
[16:38] <tyhicks> I'm continuing work on the dbus regression tests from last week
[16:39] <tyhicks> then I'll move to ' initial work to query confinement labeling of sender' and 'dbus daemon, pass labeling info on messages so security context can be queried by recipient'
[16:39] <tyhicks> I'll have some sprint prep, too
[16:39] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:39] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:40] <jjohansen> I'll be running around in panic, err that is prepping for the sprint too
[16:40] <jjohansen> I have some bugs to finish chasing down, and then I'll be back to working on signals and other bits of ipc
[16:41] <jdstrand> jjohansen: what are those bugs in?
[16:42] <jjohansen> jdstrand: good question, I chased one down to my kernel, one to the library and I think one is in dbus, I need to verify that and if so I'll pull tyhicks in
[16:42] <jdstrand> heh, ok
[16:42] <jjohansen> jdstrand: oh! I should have said dev bugs :)
[16:43] <jjohansen> thats it from me sarnold your up
[16:44] <sarnold> I'm working on the mysql update today, hoping to finish testing on it late today (those tests are immensely long, sheesh)
[16:44] <sarnold> probably publishing tomorrow
[16:45] <sarnold> when I'm done with that, I'll look at bouncy castle, and if there's any time left, I may give a follow-up audit to one of the packages I NAKd for the forums; the company was kind enough to send me another version for review after fixing my previous complaints. (woo)
[16:45] <sarnold> I'm also on community :)
[16:45] <sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn
[16:46] <chrisccoulson> hi :)
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> so, i spent a bit of time investigating one of the regressions that appeared in firefox 20. got a good handle on that now, but not sure there's much more we can do with it for now
[16:47] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what is the regression?
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=858782
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> i'm a bit concerned that if i fix the crash in our addon code, i'll just push the problem elsewhere
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> (see the last comment)
[16:49] <jdstrand> huh, interesting
[16:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i wonder if this has the potential to cause other problems
[16:50] <jdstrand> I guess we'll see what upstream says?
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm waiting for them to comment now
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> also, did some more work with chromium testing. trying to figure out if there's a way to make the installed test suite smaller (each test binary effectively links in a copy of the browser)
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> we also resolved some confusion regarding qtscript/webkit/v8/JSC :)
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> and i'm currently trying to figure out why >100 firefox tests started failing over the weekend :(
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> actually, make that nearly 200 ;) (191 to be exact)
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
[16:54] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:54] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:54] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:54] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mongodb.html
[16:54] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html
[16:54] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mc.html
[16:54] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cowbell.html
[16:54] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/falconpl.html
[16:55] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:56] <jdstrand> I have one, jjohansen, sbeattie and tyhicks> can you comment on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-security-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html? I need to prepare the monthly work items status for tomorrow. are we on track to be done by friday/tuesday?
[16:57] <jjohansen> for /me friday - no, tuesday maybe
[16:57] <jdstrand> jjohansen, sbeattie, tyhicks> and it you haven't already, can you update your work items
[16:57] <sbeattie> jdstrand: sure
[16:58] <tyhicks> jdstrand: 'dbus - update aa-logparser, including test' is not likely for Friday, but Tuesday is still a possibility
[16:58] <tyhicks> I think everything else is still on track for me
[17:00] <jdstrand> I'm not liking how I need to give a status update a week early... I will have to discuss that and/or modify our planning
[17:01] <jdstrand> sbeattie: are you on track to be done friday/tuesday?
[17:01] <sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah
[17:01] <jdstrand> ok cool
[17:02] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:05] <jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
[17:05] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 22 17:05:25 2013 UTC.
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.moin.txt
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-16.34.html
[17:05] <tyhicks> thanks
[17:05] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[17:05] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[17:05] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[18:29] <bdrung> !dmb-ping
[18:29] <bdrung> meeting in half an hour
[18:30] <ScottK> Yep.
[19:00] <bdrung> !dmb-ping
[19:00] <bdrung> #startmeeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 19:00:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:01] <bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:01] <ScottK> \o
[19:01] <tumbleweed> hi
[19:02] <bdrung> stgraber, barry, and laney said via mail that they (probably) won't attend the meeting
[19:03] <ScottK> But we have their votes on the applications.
[19:03] <ScottK> Short version of the action items is no change, nothing done.
[19:04] <bdrung> i will do  the summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship as  soon as possible.
[19:05] <bdrung> we can discuss the review separation of PPU from membership at the end of the meeting if time permits
[19:05] <bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
[19:06] <ScottK> I'm ready to vote.
[19:06] <bdrung> glatzor doesn't seem to be online
[19:06]  * micahg-work has questions
[19:08]  * tumbleweed would be interested in chatting with the applicant, but I'm fairly sure I know how I'd vote
[19:08] <bdrung> let skip him for now
[19:08] <bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Gunnar Hjalmarsson
[19:09] <GunnarHj> Good evening, DMB!
[19:09] <bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj/PerPackageUploaderApplication
[19:09] <bdrung> GunnarHj: hi. can you introduce yourself?
[19:09] <GunnarHj> I started with Ubuntu in 2010, and instantly noticed that I wasn't able to (easily) set languages and regional formats to my liking. Noticed bug 553162, and started to work on it. Seems like I got stuck with this problem area. ;-)
[19:09] <GunnarHj> I'm an i18n bug fixer, and you may want to consider me an i18n watchdog, since I tend to jump at bugs in many different packages as soon I smell a problem with respect to language and locale handling etc.
[19:09] <ScottK> I'm ready to vote.
[19:09] <GunnarHj> language-selector and accountsservice are the packages I most often come back to, and I know quite well by now what they do.
[19:09] <GunnarHj> I have a question: If you would accept my application, would it make me an ubuntu-dev member, or would that be a separate application? (It would be nice to be able to post to the ubuntu-devel list without moderation.)
[19:10] <tumbleweed> you'd be an ubuntu-dev member (as things stand right now)
[19:10] <GunnarHj> tumbleweed: Great, thanks.
[19:11] <micahg-work> well, I think we'd fix the moderation if we change the base dev group, but we can discuss that later
[19:11] <GunnarHj> I'm already an ubuntu-member and bug control member.
[19:13] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, have you collaborated with Debian at all WRT any of the i18n stuff and specifically accountservice since that's what you're seeking upload rights for
[19:13] <micahg-work> *accountsservice
[19:14] <GunnarHj> With Debian, yes absolutely, but not with respect to accountsservice since my interest there is Ubuntu specific stuff only.
[19:14] <GunnarHj> Not sold to Debian, at least not yet. :)
[19:17] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, the changes you're making only affect Ubuntu, not Debian?
[19:17] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes.
[19:17] <micahg-work> and I guess those get pushed straight upstream then?
[19:18] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes, but they are patches that Debian does not apply (at least that's my understanding).
[19:19] <bdrung> GunnarHj: are there any intentions to get the patches upstream? the latest package version contains 15 patches.
[19:21] <GunnarHj> bdrung: The most obvious one I tried to get upstream yet another level, but nothing has happened so far. GNOME seems not very interested in ideas from other distros...
[19:23] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, FTR, alessio is usually fine with Ubuntu specific patches being forwarded to Debian (might make the maintenance burden easier)
[19:23] <bdrung> GunnarHj: did you get no response or was the patch rejected?
[19:23] <GunnarHj> bdrung: Neither. Response, then silence.
[19:24] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: I'll take your tip and try to do something about Debian.
[19:24] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, he might even be up for a co-maintainer
[19:24] <bdrung> sometimes you need to poke upstream more than once and sometimes improving the patch is required to get it accepted.
[19:25] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: Ok.
[19:25] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, maybe desrt can help you get the patches upstream (I see him in the commit log)
[19:25] <bdrung> getting patches as upstream as possible reduces the maintenance burden.
[19:25] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, are you familiar with the various freezes and exception processes?
[19:26] <GunnarHj> Please note that the Ubuntu patches in accountsservice presuppose a different approach to part of language locale handling in general. It's a little complicated...
[19:26] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: Yes. Know them quite well by now.
[19:28] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, sure, we just like to encourage applicants to collaborate with upstreams where possible to reduce the maintenance burden over time
[19:29] <micahg-work> GunnarHj, are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[19:29] <GunnarHj> micahg-work: I fully understand and agree on the goal to reduce the maintenance burden.
[19:29] <GunnarHj> I'm subscribed to -announce.
[19:32] <bdrung> GunnarHj: you stated that you dislike the amount of bugs. I agree with you there. Do you have any other idea than throwing more man power at fixing bugs?
[19:33] <bdrung> there are initiatives like DEP-8 and automated testing that seem to aim in the right direction.
[19:33] <GunnarHj> bdrung: Well, that would be to test more carefully before uploading, I suppose. ;-)
[19:33] <micahg-work> FTR, I think most of the bugs are really upstream bugs, there are too many, but no software is perfect
[19:34] <micahg-work> unfortunately, I think bug control membership has been about the same since I joined about 4 years ago, that certainly doesn't help
[19:34] <GunnarHj> Agree that the automated testing initiative sounds good.
[19:35] <GunnarHj> Haven't involved myself in it yet, though.
[19:35] <bdrung> at least bugs lead to people joining the developer teams. take GunnarHj or me as example. ;)
[19:35] <GunnarHj> Indeed. :)
[19:36] <bdrung> let's vote
[19:37] <bdrung> #vote Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
[19:37] <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
[19:37] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:37] <micahg-work> +1
[19:37] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
[19:38] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:38] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:38] <bdrung> +1
[19:38] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:38] <ScottK> +1
[19:38] <meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
[19:38] <ScottK> +3 from mail too.
[19:39] <bdrung> #endvote
[19:39] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Gunnar Hjalmarsson get upload rights for language-selector and accountsservice?
[19:39] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:39] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:39] <bdrung> GunnarHj: congrats.
[19:39] <ScottK> Can we go over glaztor's application now like we would for an email vote?
[19:39] <GunnarHj> Thanks guys! Won't misuse my new access rights. :)
[19:39] <ScottK> (there's no actual requirement the person be present)
[19:39] <micahg-work> no, since I have questions for the applicant
[19:40] <bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Application: Sebastian Heinlein
[19:40] <micahg-work> well, I shouldn't say no, but I have questions for the applicant :)
[19:40] <ScottK> micahg-work: He's already +4, so why block the application?
[19:40] <bdrung> ScottK: we used to have the application on the meeting to ask questions
[19:40] <ScottK> Nothing says you can't ask questions anyway.
[19:41] <ScottK> Yes and so we'll defer it two week, he'll get at least +4 next time and take up an application slot that maybe someone else would use.
[19:41] <bdrung> but what does asking question bring if you don't get an answer?
[19:42] <micahg-work> ScottK, depending on the answers, people can change their minds...
[19:42] <micahg-work> and the vote needs +4 total, not just 4 +1s...
[19:42] <ScottK> Then we need to document that a meeting is required and votes can't be done over email.
[19:42] <ScottK> Right, but is anyone considering -1?
[19:42] <ScottK> I could image a +0, but really.
[19:43] <bdrung> micahg-work: can we move the application to email?
[19:43] <micahg-work> email votes are at the discretion of the DMB
[19:43] <micahg-work> bdrung, I suppose, should I send my questions by E-Mail?
[19:43] <ScottK> If we can do it on email, why can't we do it right now?
[19:43] <bdrung> ScottK: a meeting is normally required, but we can do it over email for special cases.
[19:44] <micahg-work> bdrung, is there a pressing need that it can't wait 2 weeks?  we usually do e-mail when it's difficult for an applicant to attend a meeting
[19:44] <ScottK> There's never a pressing need and things keep getting kicked down the road.
[19:44] <ScottK> Look at the impressive DMB progress on open actions in the last two weeks.
[19:45]  * bdrung promises improving on processing action items.
[19:46] <bdrung> I like to talk to glatzor on IRC before voting to hear his answers to micahg's question and to ask him questions.
[19:47] <ScottK> OK.  Looks like a victory for process over substance, but that's what some people think is important.
[19:48] <bdrung> there are no applications for the next meeting and therefore I see no pressing need for moving the application to email.
[19:49] <ScottK> Will someone take the action to email glatzor and tell him we decided to wait two weeks.
[19:49] <bdrung> I propose to ask glatzor if he is fine with attending the next meeting or if he want to be asked via email to avoid the waiting time.
[19:50] <ScottK> Sounds good.  Will you do it?
[19:50] <bdrung> okay, i will to it as part of the chair's duties.
[19:52] <bdrung> #topic Any other business
[19:52] <micahg-work> meeting time change for 14:00?
[19:52] <ScottK> What about PPU/membership?
[19:53] <ScottK> I thought that was on the agenda?
[19:53] <ScottK> micahg-work: Who asked for it to be changed?
[19:53] <micahg-work> I did
[19:53] <bdrung> let's discuss the time change before PPU/membership.
[19:53] <ScottK> Oh.
[19:53] <micahg-work> we took a poll, 15:00 UTC Mon seemed to be fine
[19:53] <micahg-work> unanimous in fact
[19:53] <ScottK> It's fine for me.
[19:53] <micahg-work> 13:00 was also on the poll, but I forgot I had a previous commitment
[19:54] <micahg-work> so, barring any objections, can we announce the new time for the early meeting?
[19:54] <bdrung> IIRC there was a question about using UTC or DST.
[19:54] <micahg-work> ah, right
[19:55] <micahg-work> I'm not sure we settled that one, 15:00 UTC in the winter would be problematic right now
[19:55] <bdrung> did we come to a conclusion there?
[19:56] <micahg-work> I'd prefer 16:00 london time if I had a choice
[19:56] <micahg-work> that should work for me year round...
[19:57] <micahg-work> but that moves the winter meeting 2 hours ahead of where it was
[19:57] <bdrung> so 16:00 and 21:00 London time? when do they switch the time?
[19:58] <micahg-work> hrm, that's the other problem I guess, US switches earlier/later than London
[19:58] <bdrung> We switch at the last Sunday in March/October in Germany IIRC.
[19:58] <micahg-work> it's easier for me to remember UTC...but it's only 4 weeks out of the year that it's off
[19:59] <micahg-work> same in London as Germany
[20:01] <ScottK> I'd suggest we either decide based on poll results or go back to the list since we're short three people.
[20:02] <ScottK> Personally, I'm flexible.
[20:02] <bdrung> let's sum it up
[20:04] <micahg-work> 15:00 UTC works for now, need to decide if we're switching to GMT or keeping UTC
[20:04] <bdrung> The proposal is to move to 15:00 / 20:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 14:00 / 19:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)
[20:05] <micahg-work> I'd prefer 16:00/21:00 for the winter
[20:05]  * bdrung is confused with time zones.
[20:05] <micahg-work> BTW, the 19:00 meeting is fine for me ATM, unless there's a desire to keep 5 hours between meetings
[20:08] <bdrung> The proposal is to move to 15:00 / 19:00 UTC in the Summer (from the last Sunday in March till October) and to 16:00 / 20:00 UTC in Winter (from the last Sunday in October til March)
[20:08] <bdrung> micahg-work: i calculated the times wrongly. i didn't want to the the late meeting.
[20:09] <micahg-work> seems fine
[20:09] <micahg-work> should we do a list vote?
[20:09] <bdrung> yes
[20:09] <micahg-work> bdrung, I can take an action item to call for the vote
[20:09] <micahg-work> I can also take an action item to poke about PPU/membership decoupling
[20:10] <micahg-work> unless ScottK wants the seocnd one
[20:10] <bdrung> #action micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times
[20:10] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to call for votes for the new meeting times
[20:11] <ScottK> Don't we have a proposal we can vote on for the PPU thing?
[20:11] <bdrung> should we move the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC?
[20:11] <micahg-work> ScottK, ISTR there being some disagreement on a few points still
[20:12] <micahg-work> bdrung, I would prefer to move the meeting, yes (especially since the poll results were unanimous)
[20:12] <ScottK> micahg-work: Give me a link to your last proposal and I'll take the action.
[20:12] <bdrung> (before getting a consensus on changing the schedule?)
[20:12] <micahg-work> ScottK, ok, I'll have to do that when I get home, there should be a thread on the DMB list
[20:12] <ScottK> OK
[20:13] <bdrung> #action bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC
[20:13] <meetingology> ACTION: bdrung to change the meeting time for the next meeting from 14:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC
[20:13] <micahg-work> bdrung, yes, I think the UTC/GMT question is separate
[20:13] <micahg-work> I didn't see any conflicts on the fridge when I checked either
[20:14] <bdrung> #topic Decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership
[20:15] <bdrung> micahg-work sent a mail with the subject "Proposal to decouple PPU from Membership" to d-m-b@
[20:16] <micahg-work> bdrung, we've done that already, "micahg to give ScottK link to proposal and ScottK to move it forward"
[20:17] <ScottK> I found it.
[20:17] <ScottK> Having the subject line helps.
[20:17] <bdrung> we need to vote on it and then?
[20:17] <ScottK> I'll write a mail to the list.
[20:18] <ScottK> micahg-work wanted to argue the color of the bike shed some more.
[20:18] <ScottK> Let me review and mail the list and we'll have a mail vote.
[20:18] <ScottK> Something that important I think everyone should vote on anyway.
[20:18] <micahg-work> it needs a nice floral pattern!
[20:20] <bdrung> #action ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal
[20:20] <meetingology> ACTION: ScottK to call for votes on the decoupling PPU rights from Ubuntu membership proposal
[20:22] <bdrung> next chair will be Laney
[20:22] <bdrung> thanks for attending.
[20:22] <bdrung> #endmeeting
[20:22] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 22 20:22:57 2013 UTC.
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.moin.txt
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-22-19.00.html