[00:02] <m_3> marcoceppi: setting up that control env now
[00:02] <m_3> should be done for your morning
[00:06]  * m_3 making fun of one of your keys though... "Windows"... harumph
[00:06] <m_3> :)
[00:06] <imbrandon> m_3: heya, sooo check this out , been working on / tweaking a theme for a new site I've been tinkering with launching a week or so … themes only about 80% done or so, but thats not the cool part … check out this hack ( note the comment system ) http://www.cloudhero.net/hello-world ( most of the content is just dummy content while I work on the theme )
[00:09] <imbrandon> its got the G+ commenting system thats only been released for blogger, and only a day or so there even … and that is a self hosted wordpress.org install on RAX using it :P
[00:10]  * imbrandon is happy with himself, so much so infact he is making it into a WP plugin for others.
[00:12] <m_3> imbrandon: oh, nice
[00:12] <m_3> imbrandon: yeah, that looks great
[00:12] <m_3> add the plugin to the wp charm too!  :)
[00:12] <imbrandon> :) ty still rough edges but its almost there
[00:12] <imbrandon> m_3: for sure :)
[00:13] <m_3> like the theme in general too...not just the comments bit
[00:13] <m_3> nice and clean
[00:13] <imbrandon> thanks :)
[00:13] <imbrandon> its the first one i've done from scratch in a long time
[00:13] <marcoceppi> m_3: sounds good, how will I know the address?
[00:13] <imbrandon> well its still bootstrap based, but barely
[00:14] <m_3> marcoceppi: still in progress :)... I'll send you the node once I have it bounced
[00:14] <m_3> marcoceppi: I'm adding the env config so you can pull that from the node once it's there
[00:14] <marcoceppi> m_3: awesome, I'm curious to see if this works properly now so I'll check back after the gym
[00:14] <m_3> marcoceppi: that way you can control it too... and your keys get injected into everything (tpaas) in that env
[00:15] <m_3> marcoceppi: ack
[00:15] <marcoceppi> m_3: \o/
[00:29] <imbrandon> m_3: here is alot of the elements you dont see on the page as well, developing it as a full theme … http://www.cloudhero.net/misc/styleguide.html
[00:31] <imbrandon> about half of the form elements are still funky ( select, combo box, checkbox[alignment] ) and still adjusting the colors a bit … but yea i'm happy with it over all too, tis something fresh to work on that dosent seem like a cheap copy of something else :)
[00:42] <m_3> imbrandon: ack
[12:40] <evilnickveitch> what causes  "error: cannot log in to admin database: auth fails" ?
[12:51] <smgz> mattyw: ^did you get an answer to that error when you ran into it?
[12:53] <smgz> (looking at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2013-April/002301.html attachment)
[12:54] <smgz> evilnickveitch: possibly trying to deploy before stuff is ready, what were the steps you took to get that error?
[12:56] <evilnickveitch> hmmm. well, just recently - "juju bootstrap" followed by "juju status". so...
[12:58] <mattyw> smgz, sorry - just in a call
[12:58] <smgz> presumably just the current breakage then, not sure which of them caused that
[12:58] <smgz> could be the upstart/cloudinit one or something else
[12:58] <evilnickveitch> smgz ok, was just curious :)
[12:59] <smgz> are you running from the devel ppa, and have you updated recently? the package from yesterday should be okay
[12:59] <smgz> ...then the issue is the tools in the bucket aren't updated yet...
[13:00] <evilnickveitch> smgz - ah, where should i be getting it from, just to make sure
[13:01] <smgz> https://launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/devel
[13:02] <mattyw> smgz, I seem to remember that I was trying to do juju status too quickly
[13:02] <evilnickveitch> yeah, that's the one i have. I will make sure it is up to date
[13:03] <smgz> only built latest at the end of yesterday
[13:05] <rogpeppe1> evilnickveitch: you will get that error if the bootstrap instance has failed to bootstrap successfully
[13:06] <rogpeppe1> evilnickveitch: can you try ssh'ing to that instance (you can't use juju ssh for that though) and looking at the contents of /var/log/cloud-init-output.log
[13:06] <evilnickveitch> rogpeppe1,  thanks. Some more investigating to do.
[13:07] <smgz> rogpeppe1: you should really make that error less lame
[13:07] <rogpeppe1> evilnickveitch: yeah. i think we should probably change that error message
[13:07] <smgz> where you=we
[13:07] <rogpeppe1> smgz: snap
[13:07] <rogpeppe1> smgz: it's bad because clients connect directly to mongo
[13:07] <rogpeppe1> smgz: in the near future, command line clients will connect to the API
[13:08] <rogpeppe1> smgz: so you won't get that error - you'll just get endless "connection refused" messages, which is arguably better, i suppose
[13:09] <rogpeppe1> evilnickveitch: the "auth refused" error means that the bootstrap instance got as far as starting mongo at least.
[13:09] <smgz> well, no, but I need to persuade you guys that bootstrap should be console-log aware still
[13:09] <rogpeppe1> smgz: yeah, i agree, but it's awkward to do
[13:10] <rogpeppe1> smgz: the command line tools can't know when the environment is bootstrapping vs when it's genuinely unavailable
[13:10] <smgz> they can, for several common classes of problems
[13:11] <smgz> if you don't get to cloud-init's happy message, you know something has gone wrong
[13:11] <rogpeppe1> smgz: i suppose juju bootstrap itself could know; perhaps juju bootstrap --debug --wait could wait until the instance comes up, ssh to it and tail -f cloud-init-output.log
[13:12] <smgz> right, and then make --no-wait --quiet the non-default passable flags :)
[13:12] <rogpeppe1> smgz: juju status on the other hand has no idea if it's waiting for the environment to bootstrap
[13:12] <smgz> you don't need to ssh to get the log
[13:12] <rogpeppe1> smgz: no?
[13:12] <smgz> you just call into the nova api (on openstack at least, ec2 has the 4 minute delay thing or whatever)
[13:13] <rogpeppe1> smgz: to get any log file on the system?
[13:13] <smgz> no, to get the log you care about (dmesg + cloudinit redirection)
[13:13] <rogpeppe1> smgz: the one that i find all the useful info in is cloud-init-output.log, which i don't think is the one you're talking about there.
[13:15] <smgz> there's this nice little line in our cloud config, that goes like this:
[13:16] <smgz> output: {all: '| tee -a /var/log/cloud-init-output.log'}
[13:16] <rogpeppe1> smgz: do you think we should change that?
[13:17] <smgz> or, in the go code, environs/cloudinit/cloudinit.go line 183:
[13:17] <smgz> c.SetOutput(cloudinit.OutAll, "| tee -a /var/log/cloud-init-output.log", "")
[13:17] <rogpeppe1> smgz: or does the output also end up in the other log. i'm afraid i am shamefully ignorant of the cloudinit detais
[13:17] <rogpeppe1> details
[13:18] <smgz> right, what you see in cloud-init-output.log also appears in the console log.
[13:18] <rogpeppe1> smgz: ah, ok
[13:19] <rogpeppe1> smgz: i wonder if it might be nicer to have a bootstrap-log command. that way even if i bootstrap silently, i can later inspect what went on in the bootstrap process
[13:20] <smgz> nicer than having bootstrap just working? no. in addition, perhaps.
[13:21] <rogpeppe1> smgz: i'm not sure what you mean by "just working" there.
[13:21] <smgz> erroring when there's an error, with a clear message, returning 0 when it succeeds.
[13:22] <rogpeppe1> smgz: i'm not sure i want the bootstrap command to wait for minutes by default
[13:22] <smgz> we'll have this argument in a few weeks :)
[13:23] <rogpeppe1> smgz: i think i'm on niemeyer's side on this on
[13:23] <rogpeppe1> this one
[13:24] <rogpeppe1> smgz: if the bootstrap process was more reliable, i'm not sure we'd be as concerned about this. there are definitely some places where a retry loop could help things (for instance the metadata service can fail transiently in ec2)
[13:42] <orospakr> say I want to fork a charm (because I want to add an interface to it or something) after I've deployed it.  can I switch the charm or is a redeploy necessary?
[13:45] <marcoceppi> orospakr: not really. There's a bug about not being able to upgrade a charm from the store using a local repo
[13:46] <orospakr> oh wow, yeah, that's the feature I'd want. well, so long as there's already a ticket filed. :)
[13:46] <marcoceppi> So if you've always deployed it from your local repo you can use juju upgrade-charm to update the charm to the newer version, but if you deploy from store then try to upgrade from local - no go
[13:46] <orospakr> alright, here's a fun question: what is Canonical's business model for this project? consulting?
[13:46] <marcoceppi> orospakr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1040210
[13:46] <_mup_> Bug #1040210: can't upgrade a store-deployed service from a local repo <upgrade-charm> <juju:Confirmed> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040210>
[13:49] <ahasenack> hi, there seems to be a packaging problem in pyjuju in raring
[13:49] <ahasenack> zookeeper is "suggested", as is apt-cacher-ng
[13:49] <ahasenack> but lxc deployments won't work without it
[13:50] <ahasenack> is that expected?
[13:50] <orospakr> hm, where is the reference documentation of all the fields permissible in charm metadata?
[13:52] <smgz_> ahasenack: yes. you can use juju without the lxc provider, why should those people have to install zookeeper locally?
[13:53] <ahasenack> smgz: ok, makes sense
[14:01] <orospakr> ah, probably https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charm.html
[14:47] <orospakr> what's the best way to automate charm upgrades? the goal here is some form of continuous deployment. :)
[14:58] <SpamapS> orospakr: bump 'revision', 'juju upgrade-charm service-name' , the upgrade charm hook will run on all units in parallel
[15:11] <orospakr> SpamapS, okay. I figured that would be the approach. thank you. :)
[15:36] <jcastro> m_3: do you have that text file from your charm school section? the one where you had an agenda, etc.
[15:36] <jcastro> or did you just generate that on the fly?
[15:37] <jcastro> marcoceppi: 1 week warning on LISA13 submission deadline
[15:38] <marcoceppi> jcastro: thanks, I've got a draft I'll send over to you if you don't mind giving it a once over
[15:38] <jcastro> fo sho
[15:38] <jcastro> m_3: Strata deadline is 5/16
[15:47] <m_3> jcastro: one sec
[15:48] <jcastro> hey marcoceppi
[15:48] <marcoceppi> jcastro: yo
[15:49] <jcastro> we need to do a virtual charm school for 2.0ish
[15:49] <marcoceppi> cool
[15:49] <jcastro> how does next Friday float for you? I'm thinking G+
[15:50] <marcoceppi> jcastro: that sounds fine to me
[15:50] <jcastro> ok I'll schedule something
[15:54] <jcastro> ok everyone
[15:54] <jcastro> I've redone the messaging around 2.0 timeline
[15:54] <jcastro> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoW1nhI7IMt3dGc1dmN6YUpxVXBidlYyX3VNOXNYclE#gid=0
[15:54] <jcastro> this gives us goals as to what to talk about based on when things land in 2.0
[15:54] <jcastro> and we have "general advocacy" on top of that
[15:54] <jcastro> so if like, a milestone slips in core we can do other stuff
[17:01] <m_3> jcastro: that was one-off... I can reproduce it if you want
[17:01] <m_3> jcastro: usually just make notes for myself before each talk... based on the anticipated audience
[17:03] <jcastro> m_3: yeah so what I'm going to do
[17:03] <jcastro> is break up a charm school into "15 minute" chunks
[17:03] <jcastro> and then write them all down
[17:03] <m_3> smart
[17:03] <jcastro> so we can assemble them like legos
[17:04] <jcastro> so like "this is not a toy example" is one
[17:04] <m_3> I can reproduce my general notes
[17:04] <m_3> maybe next week
[17:04] <m_3> yeah
[17:04] <m_3> convert them to video segments
[17:04] <m_3> :)
[17:04] <m_3> relation sequencing
[17:04] <m_3> managing service lifecycle
[17:05] <m_3> adding and removing relations
[17:05] <m_3> anatomy of a charm
[17:05] <m_3> service config
[17:05] <m_3> I like a "juju basics" right up front... "the point"
[17:05] <jcastro> right
[17:06] <m_3> then charms, then advanced juju
[17:07] <jcastro> right
[17:55] <imbrandon> sounds like what http://lullabot.com does with http://drupalize.me  … its a huge hit
[17:56] <imbrandon> most vids are like 10 to 12 min but then they combine for an overall topic of about 1.5 to 2 hours total
[17:57] <imbrandon> jcastro / m_3 / marcoceppi ^^
[17:58] <imbrandon> http://drupalize.me/videos/overview-drupal-theming  <-- like that one on D7 theming is 7 min
[18:01] <m_3> imbrandon: yup... exactly
[18:01] <m_3> trick imo is to keep each vid to a single topic
[18:01] <m_3> one problem at a time
[18:02] <m_3> then it's easier to tag/search for what you want
[18:02] <m_3> and link from askubuntu and jujudocs
[18:02] <imbrandon> less seeking in the vid too trying to get to "the good part" whatever that is at the moment
[18:05] <imbrandon> the actual drupal "distribution" ( read: drush makefile ) that lullabot uses for drupalize.me storage and playback interface is opensource / well maintained too , should you all decide u wanted to use it … i'm sure something less complex to begin with tho
[18:05] <imbrandon> even just a wiki with youtube links is a start
[18:07]  * imbrandon heads back to lurking mode and off to do some more work/tweaking on cloudhero 
[20:36] <robbiew> jcastro: m_3: http://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/session-videos/presentation/juju-with-openstack-workshop
[20:36] <robbiew> :)
[20:37] <jcastro> Thanks! I was wondering when that was going to come up
[20:37] <jcastro> will share right after this call
[20:53] <m_3> robbiew: thanks
[20:54]  * m_3 watching now
[21:07] <jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YenD4oxfEa4
[21:07] <jcastro> is anybody else getting a "your browser doesn't recognize the video format blah blah" on this page?
[21:08] <marcoceppi> jcastro: nope, it works fine here
[21:08] <jcastro> man, I do say "Ummmm" too often in charm schools
[21:22] <robbiew> works good for me
[21:22] <jcastro> ok posted to the world
[21:22] <jcastro> 43 views so far
[21:23] <marcoceppi> I'm ~45 mins in, great job so far
[21:27] <jcastro> I am glad I switched to the gray ubuntu shirt
[21:27] <jcastro> instead of those white snowball polos they had
[21:30] <robbiew> lol
[21:32] <scuttlemonkey> jcastro: ++
[21:33] <mwhudson> jcastro: i get the format blah message in firefox
[21:33] <jcastro> mwhudson: do you have flash installed?
[21:33] <mwhudson> yes, but i think i have the "html5 trial" or whatever enabled
[21:34] <mwhudson> there is a link to youtube.com/html5 where the video should be
[21:35] <scuttlemonkey> jcastro: I haven't played w/ juju much on an openstack setup...how is it for deployment there on grizzly/havana stuff shaping up?
[21:35] <scuttlemonkey> all my juju testing has been on ec2
[21:35] <jcastro> scuttlemonkey: you should be good to go
[21:35] <jcastro> the openstack provider doesn't do constraints yet I don't think
[21:35] <scuttlemonkey> cool
[21:35] <scuttlemonkey> ah
[21:35] <jcastro> but they'll be doing like biweekly releases of core now
[21:36] <scuttlemonkey> nice
[21:36] <jcastro> and the nice thing is juju is upgradable now
[21:36] <jcastro> so you can wait for what you need, then upgrade
[21:36] <scuttlemonkey> yeah, my plan is to move my entire test rig over to DreamCompute
[21:36] <jcastro> without tearing it all down
[21:37] <scuttlemonkey> since I'm on the hook for an in-ceph-tion-y talk about deploying ceph on ceph there
[21:37] <scuttlemonkey> that's great news
[21:37] <jcastro> yeah so the idea is
[21:37] <jcastro> if you want a core feature faster
[21:37] <jcastro> whine more
[21:37] <scuttlemonkey> while it isn't hard to destroy environment on a test rig...the ability to have many other things running live will be happy-making
[21:37] <scuttlemonkey> hahaha
[21:37] <jcastro> we're almost to feature parity so sooon we'll be moving forward instead of trying to reach the line of scrimmage again
[21:38] <scuttlemonkey> well in that case I will be the squeakiest wheel that ever squeakied :)
[21:38] <scuttlemonkey> but first I need a platform...so I'll go squeaky at Dreamhost first
[21:39] <jcastro> yeah I am waiting for Rackspace's cloud to be fixed so we can run on there
[21:39] <jcastro> but they posted how they plan on getting closer to trunk or whatever, so the openstack provider should Just Work there soon
[21:39] <scuttlemonkey> awesome
[21:40] <scuttlemonkey> aight, time to go hunt down some dinner.  Great vid
[21:42] <jcastro> ta
[21:42] <jcastro> I'll ping you later, I should get a list of things you want from you
[21:43] <jcastro> and then we can bug mramm together
[21:53] <sander_> Is there a video tutorial I should watch to learn how to write charms?