[14:35] teolemon, if you are in, I just want to say I sent you an email a minute ago with my experiment results [14:35] looking at it [14:35] ok [14:37] you have to mark them as translated [14:37] not fuzzy [14:37] and import them as translated in the bogus project [14:38] you mean I have to approve them in Lokalize first? [14:38] In that case it is not different from how I used to do it [14:38] and what you can upload first are machine translations [14:38] what you call machine translation is already in the merged file [14:38] not quantal [14:38] raring+ machine translations [14:39] in my case precise-e2 (100% translated) [14:39] and then the po file with the fuzzy [14:39] marked as translated [14:39] so precise-e2 + raring > merged [14:39] can you send me the po file [14:40] ok it is about 928 kB [14:40] machine translation for me is google translate [14:40] Is that not too big? [14:40] and did you mark them as translated [14:41] teolemon, if I approve them in Lokalize there is no point in sending the file to manualautomated [14:41] before uploading [14:41] Because then I have already done the work in Lokalize [14:41] so that they show up as suggestions ? [14:41] i should be ok [14:42] If I open the merged file in Lokalize there are more than 500 suggestions called Not ready [14:42] give it a try [14:43] teolemon, I already have uploaded the merged file with suggestions to LP but the suggestions that show in Lokalize do not show in manualautomated. [14:43] you mass approve them in a text editor or using keyboard shortcut [14:44] If I approve them in Lokalize there is no point in uploading the file to ubuntuautomated [14:44] and then several translators can review them [14:44] I can just as well upload it to /ubuntu-manual/raring [14:44] because you didn't mass validate offline first [14:44] I have to validate one by one. Is there another way? [14:45] you feed the bogus project with strings you mass validated [14:45] you don't care about the content [14:45] And where do I mass validate the fuzzies? [14:45] select all [14:45] validate [14:45] save [14:46] and upload [14:46] Hold on. Select all where? In a text editor? A text editor does not have a function Validate [14:46] and then [14:46] 10 people can look at them online [14:47] and see if modifications are necessary [14:47] teolemon, I think I have to see if Lokalize has this function "validate the whole selection" [14:48] yes [14:48] Now I think I see what you mean. Before uploading I have to approve the whole selection. I have to check if I can do this in Lokalize. I will let you know. [14:48] using a text editor [14:48] you mean a CAT [14:48] or using a keyboard shortcut [14:49] as you wish [14:49] #, fuzzy [14:50] msgid "label 1" //Nouveau msgid [14:50] you find and replace the fuzzy part [14:51] to make it look like a regular string [14:51] just a minute, I'll open it in gedit [14:53] i did it in one or two minutes using shortcut and typing like a crazy person on my keyboard [14:53] but a find and replace in kedit [14:54] or any text editor will be even faster [14:54] right, I see #, fuzzy in gedit [14:54] #, fuzzy must be changed to what? [14:54] https://gist.github.com/anonymous/c4e32486f76e895ee2d4 [14:54] here's an exemple [14:56] Yes, I spotted the #, fuzzy lines. Do I have to delete them or replace them by someting else? [14:56] find all [14:56] #, fuzzy [14:56] replace by [14:56] (and put nothing) [14:56] ok, so just delete the whole line #, fuzzy [14:56] and you're done [14:56] is that ok ? [14:57] I think I get it now. But you still have to find and delete them one by one. There is no bulk deleting in gedit [14:57] wipe them [14:58] Or is there a command I do not know? [14:58] to make them look like translated strings [14:58] yes [15:00] you can check the result in lokalize [15:00] if you want [15:00] eeeh [15:00] replace all ? [15:00] Hannie, try CTRL+H [15:00] gedit doesn't have a find and replace function [15:00] right. It takes a while to delete 500 #, fuzzy lines [15:01] gedit has a replace function. [15:01] is that what you're implying ? [15:01] ;-) [15:01] CarstenG, that's the right shortcut (didn't know it, thanks) [15:01] Open the window with CTRL+H [15:01] http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ [15:02] hum hum [15:02] and there you fill the fields and click then »Replace all« [15:02] Ayay, my bad. Didn't know it existed in gedit [15:02] otherwise, if you're into KDE, you can use a kde text editor [15:02] It is done in a jiffy [15:02] with more functionnality :-P [15:03] Now I will upload it again to ubuntuautomated [15:03] ten seconds ? [15:03] teo: We are making the manual for GNOME, so we use gedit :-p [15:03] * teolemon won't joke about German efficiency :-) [15:03] or less ;) [15:04] I use gedit too [15:04] :-) [15:04] I only saw it as a toy compared to big brother Word [15:04] ^^ [15:05] thanks for your patience with me [15:07] http://manilovefilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/noisy-cricket.jpg [15:07] One thing I have to say to my defence: there is no Find and Replace in the menu bar of gedit [15:07] small but powerful :-) [15:07] Teo: Can you explain this topic »bogus project«, »ubuntuautomated« on the mailing list? It sound interesting, but I did not yet understand it in detail. Also for other translator it would be useful, or? [15:08] which ml ? [15:08] ubuntu-translators ? [15:08] no our ml [15:08] ubuntu-manual [15:08] or both [15:10] it's basically a rehash of what we did for the ddtp [15:10] Hannie: There is a entry in the menu bar \menu{Search \then Replace \ldots} :-) [15:10] lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu [15:10] http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu [15:10] we detailed our methodology here [15:11] CarstenG, I found it under Search, I expected it to be under Edit. O, O, O [15:11] you know things are bad when you start talking LaTeX to fellow team members [15:12] hannie, have you uploaded it ? [15:12] I am going to do it in a second [15:12] teo: Thanks for this link. I'll have a look [15:14] teolemon, done. Thank you for your upload. In import queue [15:14] i've added a paragraph [15:15] on how to unfuzzy strings [15:16] as we mainly used google translate for ddtp suggestions [15:17] teolemon, are you the one who approves the import? [15:17] we didn't rely on fuzzy [15:17] just approve [15:17] approved it [15:17] it should appear in a couple of minutes [15:17] ah, great! Thanks [15:18] I am so curious if the result is ok now [15:18] but you'll have 100 or so strings left to translate fully by youself [15:19] better than 500 ;) [15:19] possibly more [15:19] I may even decide to translate raring. so far we only do LTS versions of the manual [15:19] i think so [15:19] or maybe you can approve it yourself [15:20] 100 strings of the manual is different from gui strings (much shorter) [15:21] as ubuntu-translators member [15:21] Not many of my fellow translators like the long strings [15:21] I can guarantee that when you do that at DDTP scale [15:21] Teo: It looks like that the project https://launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated is for the current raring translation. Is it possible to use it also for the quantal version? [15:21] you get a great chill [15:21] (teaser ^^) [15:21] lol [15:21] and we should be good ! [15:21] have a look [15:22] We may start working on DDTP again if I can do the fuzzy trick there too [15:22] you have 207 strings left [15:22] Or should we create a https://launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated-quantal [15:22] do you want me to add automated suggestions ? [15:22] we'd need to upload the quantal template [15:22] but yes [15:22] ? [15:22] we've finished quantal so i didn't do it [15:22] (French love to brag) [15:23] on the ddtp [15:23] We have a shortage of translators at Ubuntu Dutch Translators [15:23] fuzzy is not enough [15:24] teolemon, I know I have to study the instructions you wrote. Haven't found time to do it yet [15:24] you need automation [15:24] not useful [15:24] Yes, automation is the key word [15:24] and polluting launchpad [15:24] We are very grateful what you did for ddtp. I have started to work with Nightmonkey again [15:25] And a good idea to find people with interest in a specific field [15:25] use Ubuntu Robot Dutch Translators [15:25] :) [15:25] they don't complain [15:26] do the work in 5 minutes [15:26] There is always a human behind the robot ;) [15:26] don't eat [15:26] don't breathe [15:26] my wish is that we all automated [15:26] yeah, definitely [15:27] You have made a good start. Keep up the good work! [15:27] the ddtp have been here for too long [15:27] Teo: Nice, if you could upload the template for quantal. But I first have to generate the merged po file based on the precise translation. [15:27] i want to get done with it [15:27] I am going to have a look at ubuntuautomated [15:27] once and for all [15:27] it should be crowdsourced [15:28] Kissy, kissy, only 207 untranslated........ [15:28] and then the translators act as reviewers [15:29] teolemon, there is a small risk that I approved strings that shouldn't have been approved [15:29] robots >reviewed by> humans non translators >reviewed by> ubuntu professional reviewers [15:30] it's a pyramid [15:31] the thing is I can't push other teams [15:31] teolemon, I will try to revive the ddtp translation in the Dutch team [15:31] i've requested a pot for quantal [15:32] Hannie: I have a problem with the msgmerge... [15:32] CarstenG, what's the problem? [15:32] and google translate could give you suggestions for the rest [15:32] I do a [15:32] $ msgmerge precise.po quantal.po > quantal_merged.po [15:32] we're down to 50 [15:32] CarstenG, are you in the directory with the po files? [15:32] where ? [15:33] in the automated project ? [15:33] and now I get in the merged file a fuzzy string wich was already translated in the quantal.po. [15:33] CarstenG, only one? Perhaps there was a slight change [15:33] So is there a way to ignore already translated strings in the quantal file? [15:34] No, there are more... [15:34] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/quantal/+pots/ubuntu-manual/nl/+translate?show=untranslated&direction=backwards&memo=430&start=420 [15:34] have a look [15:34] the suggestions are showing up in quantal as well [15:34] CarstenG, why would you ignore already translated strings? they should be in the merged file [15:34] CarstenG [15:35] Ok, let me give an example for better understanding. [15:36] i can put online automatic suggestions for multiverse if you're interested to test [15:37] by all means. I am willing to test things for you [15:37] or for us the Dutch team [15:37] if you're satisfied with the quality we can then put it for main and universe [15:38] I do not like google translate very much, although it is getting better lately [15:38] I only use it for common words. Do you know trans.eu? [15:38] i've uploaded the template for quantal [15:38] sorry opentran.eu [15:38] Lets use the glossary entry »Canonical« as example. [15:38] In precise I have: [15:38] if you want we can do a google hangout so that I can share my screen and drive you through all this [15:38] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It [15:38] has over 310 paid staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted [15:38] by volunteer contributors. To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:38] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, der Geldgeber Ubuntus, leistet Unterstützung für das Ubuntu-Kernsystem. [15:38] Canonical verfügt über mehr als 310 bezahlte Mitarbeiter weltweit, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil ist, und die die [15:38] Arbeit von Freiwilligen überprüfen. Mehr über Canonical erfahren Sie unter \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:40] In qnatal this string is already translated: [15:40] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It [15:40] has over 500 staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted by [15:40] volunteer contributors. To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:40] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical ist der Finanzsponsor von Ubuntu und betreut das Herzstück des Ubuntu-Systems. [15:40] Canonical beschäftigt weltweit über 500 Betriebsangehörige, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil läuft, und die auch [15:40] sämtliche Beiträge gegenprüfen, die von freiwillig Mitwirkenden eingereicht werden. Um mehr über Canonical zu erfahren, folgen Sie \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:41] CarstenG, so you are talking about the change from 310 to 500 staff members? [15:42] In qnatal this string is already translated: [15:42] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It [15:42] has over 500 staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted by [15:42] volunteer contributors. To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:42] \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, der Geldgeber Ubuntus, leistet Unterstützung für das Ubuntu-Kernsystem. [15:42] Canonical verfügt über mehr als 310 bezahlte Mitarbeiter weltweit, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil ist, und die die [15:42] Arbeit von Freiwilligen überprüfen. Mehr über Canonical erfahren Sie unter \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}} [15:43] Yes, and the translation will also be in raring when you merge. What's wrong with that? [15:44] Hannie: Its no the change from 300 to 500 staff members... The problem is, that I get in the merged file a fuzzy string for an entry which is already translated in quantal. [15:45] CarstenG, it will not be a fuzzy anymore when you remove all the #, fuzzy lines from the merged file [15:46] As I have only just learned from teolemon [15:46] You DO want to keep the translation of a long message, even if there has been a slight change [15:49] In short words: [15:49] My "problem": [15:49] precise translated -- quantal translated --> in merged file string from precise, marked as fuzzy. [15:49] My expected behaviour: [15:49] * precise translated -- quantal translated --> in merged file string from quantal, not marked as fuzzy. [15:49] * precise translated -- quantal NOT translated --> in merged file string from precise, marked as fuzzy [15:49] teolemon, I suggest I start reading / experiment with your google translate instructions. After that I'll come back to you and see how we are going to do it for the Dutch language [15:49] ok [15:50] or if you're feeling like it [15:50] i can screencast by doing multiverse [15:51] while you're doing main [15:51] and ask me any questions during the screencast [15:51] teolemon, forgive me, but what do you mean by screencast? [15:52] and CarstenG can join too if he's interested for de [15:52] we can have up to 8 persons attenting [15:52] do you mean the hangout? [15:52] google hangout [15:52] ok [15:52] where i share my screen [15:52] instead of my face [15:53] and meanwhile, we talk [15:53] yes, good idea. But I have to prepare before I join [15:53] do you have a google account ? [15:54] teolemon, yes, but so far, for privacy reasons, I refused to participate in hangouts ;) [15:54] ok [15:54] but you don't need to prepare much [15:55] you may see if you can plan a date and time, I will do some reading in the meantime [15:55] as we'll do the same thing at the same time [15:55] it's a fuc***g efficient way to work [15:55] ok [15:55] I suppose so. I'll participate [15:55] if you so wish [15:56] i had a couple of spare hours before our release lunch [15:57] CarstenG, if precise translated -- quantal translated --> merged there must have been a slight difference between the two messages [15:57] so i intended to put them to good use :-) [15:57] otherwise you do NOT get a fuzzy [15:58] teolemon, se if you can find a convenient time and date for yourself and call for participants using doodle [15:58] *see [15:59] teolemon, I'm sure Redmar will also be interested [16:03] Hannie: yes, you are right. In this case is a difference between the precise and quantal string. But I'm wondering why I get the precise string as suggestion, if the quantal string is already translated. Or I have not yet understand the idea behind msgmerge... [16:07] The strings of the first file are merged with those of the second, resulting in fuzzies in the third file if there is a difference between the two [16:08] CarstenG, that is why it is a bit dangerous to change too many things in a new manual version [16:09] Example \newglossaryentry was removed in raring, resulting in more than 20 fuzzies (all glossary entries) [16:10] The same goes for splitting long paragraphs. It should be to the benefit of translators, but changing them means a lot more fuzzies [16:13] ok, guys, time for a pause. See you [16:17] ok, see you Hannie. [16:17] Teo: I see now two templates for the German language on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated [16:17] Thanks. [16:18] So I can now upload the merged po files there? quantal.po and raring.po? [16:41] i goofed a bit i thin [16:41] in both [16:41] it doesn't matter [16:42] launchpad will accept anything [16:42] the suggestions will show anyway [16:46] what went wrong? [16:47] i think i overwrote the raring template with the quantal template [16:47] but the translations are still showing up for French and Dutch [16:47] i think lp doesn't care much [16:48] it swallows everything [16:48] and then uses them as suggestions [16:48] Well, I see both, raring and quantal in German language. [16:48] cool [16:48] then yes [16:49] should the file I will upload, have a specific name? [16:49] upload them in their respective templates [16:49] no [16:49] ok [16:50] give it the name you want [16:51] ok, ubuntu-manual-quantal-de.po is just uploaded. [16:58] it's live normally [16:58] i approved it [17:03] grrrr. [17:03] I forgot to remove the fuzzy string [17:03] Ok, then I have to upload it again. :-) [17:10] ok [17:14] it's good [17:33] ok, fine. [17:34] How long does it take, that the strings appear in the ubuntu-manual as suggestions? [17:35] a couple of minutes to a couple of hours [17:35] it depends [17:39] ok [18:00] is it working ok now ? [18:16] no, not yet. [19:19] can you try uploading it into raring as well ? [19:28] I would, but I did not yet received the po file from LP.