| m_3 | davecheney: good to hear | 00:21 |
|---|---|---|
| davecheney | m_3: i can't remember what I said :) | 00:25 |
| davecheney | it was yesterday | 00:25 |
| davecheney | grr, hp cloud is having a loe down | 00:27 |
| davecheney | it can't talk to anything outside the network | 00:27 |
| davecheney | which makes bootstrapping a bit problematic | 00:27 |
| davecheney | Apr 28 10:29:56 juju-goscale2-machine-0 mongod.37017[9332]: Sun Apr 28 10:29:56 [conn1999] query | 10:30 |
| davecheney | juju.txns.log query: { $query: {}, $orderby: { $natural: -1 } } cursorid:6469952084798152748 ntor | 10:30 |
| davecheney | eturn:10 ntoskip:0 nscanned:11 keyUpdates:0 numYields: 1 locks(micros) r:486329 nreturned:10 resl | 10:30 |
| davecheney | en:948 267ms | 10:30 |
| davecheney | are these log times bad ? | 10:30 |
| fwereade | davecheney, morning | 20:53 |
| fwereade | davecheney, I was wondering if you considered https://codereview.appspot.com/8953044 suitably trivial? it was agreed in the discussions preceding the original CL but we forgot to actually implement it then :/ | 20:54 |
| * fwereade goes to do housey things for a bit, will be back soon | 20:55 | |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, heyhey | 21:10 |
| rogpeppe1 | yo! | 21:10 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, how's it going? | 21:10 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: trying to write family emails and you're a welcome distraction :-) | 21:11 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: how's you? | 21:11 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I consider https://codereview.appspot.com/8953044 to be plausibly trivial, because this was always the agreed behaviour AIUI: https://codereview.appspot.com/8953044 | 21:11 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I's good :) | 21:11 |
| * rogpeppe1 is not looking at anything work related just now | 21:11 | |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, a few cylinders are starting to fire again | 21:11 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, no worries :) | 21:12 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: that's good. you must've burned out a few | 21:12 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, had a nice weekend, lots of laura time | 21:12 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, was definitely needed | 21:12 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: we had a nice weekend building smart new veg beds from old scaff boards | 21:13 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, excellent | 21:13 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: not quite done yet, but excellent progress made (and some celebratory g&ts as the sun went down) | 21:14 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I've been reading jonathan strange and mr norrell | 21:14 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: good innit? | 21:14 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, it's rather good I think | 21:14 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, oh yes | 21:14 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i kinda stole it off my sister in law one xmas (she'd just been given it) and read it far too fast before she noticed | 21:15 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i'm on the fourth bear | 21:15 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: but not v far in | 21:15 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, haha, nice, I have done that on a few occasions | 21:15 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, it is not impossible that you will cast it aside with a bewildered WTF, I am not sure how much my enjoyment of that one was based on knowledge of the wider world from his other books | 21:17 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: the fire is flaming nicely and the foster cat is happily snoozing on the sofa. | 21:17 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: we'll see | 21:17 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i'm reserving judgement for the moment | 21:17 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: the context i had from you has been useful | 21:18 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, yeah, I don't think that's explained at all | 21:18 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, at least not when you kinda need to know it | 21:18 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i think there was one brief aside | 21:18 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: interesting to see results of dave's stress tests. | 21:19 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, definitely | 21:19 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: oops, work related. | 21:19 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: must write email :-) | 21:20 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, do we ever need that internal api :) | 21:20 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: indeed | 21:20 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I have a few threads I need to draw together myself | 21:20 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i was happy that the gui seemed to work fine with all those nodes | 21:20 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, that's awesome | 21:20 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: that's only one client for the API mind :-) | 21:21 |
| * fwereade removes hat | 21:21 | |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, sure | 21:21 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, but it's always nice to break after some other component ;p | 21:21 |
| rogpeppe1 | :-) | 21:21 |
| * rogpeppe1 hasn't quite worked out what to say on the subject of error reporting vs logging yet, but feels there is sensible something lurking around | 21:22 | |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, well, every piece of context you describe *could* be provided by logging | 21:25 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: if we were happy with logging 1GB/minute | 21:25 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, but it is indeed a tradeoff in many things | 21:26 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: yeah | 21:26 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I think that more logging *and* more error context is likely to be generally helpful | 21:27 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: agreed | 21:28 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: that's the gist of my as yet uncomposed reply | 21:28 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, but there have been times when we have erred toward the massively redundant in our error messages, and I think that's also a problem | 21:28 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: if we err in that direction and prune as needed, i think that's a better approach than the opposite | 21:29 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, yeah | 21:29 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I find myself pondering state though | 21:29 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, there are a lot of places we pass up unadorned errors from mgo | 21:30 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: indeed | 21:30 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: let's not | 21:30 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, hmm -- this to me is actually a case where I think logging wins out | 21:31 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, "mgo said no" is generally independent of context -- the connection fell over, basically, and there's nowt to be done | 21:32 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: logging errors or logging actions? | 21:32 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, logging actions | 21:32 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, and leaving errors we can't account for to fall out, and the detailed context be pieced together as needed | 21:32 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: we generate enormous log files as is - i'm concerned about the volume of logging data we generate. | 21:32 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: or *will* generate. | 21:32 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, I think that actually implementing fricking log levels will address that | 21:33 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: the problem is that anyone in any significantly sized environment will dial back the log levels | 21:33 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: and then we'll be left with io.EOF | 21:34 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, we don't have to send everything everywhere | 21:34 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: that's a good point actually. | 21:35 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: but still, those API servers are gonna be helluva busy | 21:36 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: when everything's going through the api | 21:36 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, consider me undecided on how best to address logging | 21:36 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: yeah me too. i agree with you that a combination of better logging *and* better error reporting will be useful | 21:37 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, the distribution problem smells a little of being amenable to charming, if we can figure out the right interface to expose | 21:37 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: perhaps. some volume estimations may well be useful. | 21:38 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, yeah, just an idle thought | 21:39 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, have been having slightly less idle thoughts about an environs/resource package with Image and Spec structs and Map and Kind interfaces | 21:40 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, but I have been doing that when I should have been reviewing ian's stuff | 21:40 |
| * fwereade gets he to a codereview | 21:41 | |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: interesting. i think there's something nice struggling to get out there but i haven't spent any time on it since maas appeared. | 21:41 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, it has kinda clicked -- not in the "it's perfect" sense but the "it's definitely *closer* to perfect" sense | 21:42 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i want something that's not just a "this appeared vaguely similar in these providers" thing; something that's obviously genuinely helpful in current and future contexts. | 21:43 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, eg it will be as stupid as the individual implementations of Map are wrt caching | 21:43 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, well, it's a step that way -- I don't think Image should *really* be a struct, but I don't want to speculate too far | 21:43 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: i really need to get back to what i'm supposed to be doing :-) look forward to continuing discussions around this topic | 21:44 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, likewise | 21:44 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, hey sorry 1 thing? | 21:44 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: 1 :-) | 21:44 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: go on | 21:45 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, davecheney mentioned you were going to fix the unassigned unit thing seen with juju-gui to machine 0; please chat to me about it at your convenience, ideally prior to implementation, I have thoughts | 21:45 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, but not now | 21:45 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: bug #? | 21:46 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, not sure | 21:46 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, if it's not currently on your mind you can leave it on mine, but I'll cc you in in case it rings a bell, I have a half-reply open | 21:47 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: doesn't ring a bell currently, unless it's the failed deploy thing, in which case i just reported the bug, and had no immediate intention of fixing it | 21:49 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, ah great, I'll find it and assign it to myself then, I have a CL up that addresses the best currently-addressable subset of the problem, I think | 21:50 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: #1173089 ? | 21:58 |
| _mup_ | Bug #1173089: deploy can fail partially <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173089> | 21:58 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, yeah, that's the one | 21:59 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, got distracted by another bug ;p | 21:59 |
| fwereade | rogpeppe1, fwiw I don't think we should rollback -- I think create/assign should be a single txn | 22:00 |
| rogpeppe1 | fwereade: yeah, probs | 22:29 |
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