m_3davecheney: good to hear00:21
davecheneym_3: i can't remember what I said :)00:25
davecheneyit was yesterday00:25
davecheneygrr, hp cloud is having a loe down00:27
davecheneyit can't talk to anything outside the network00:27
davecheneywhich makes bootstrapping a bit problematic00:27
davecheneyApr 28 10:29:56 juju-goscale2-machine-0 mongod.37017[9332]: Sun Apr 28 10:29:56 [conn1999] query10:30
davecheneyjuju.txns.log query: { $query: {}, $orderby: { $natural: -1 } } cursorid:6469952084798152748 ntor10:30
davecheneyeturn:10 ntoskip:0 nscanned:11 keyUpdates:0 numYields: 1 locks(micros) r:486329 nreturned:10 resl10:30
davecheneyen:948 267ms10:30
davecheneyare these log times bad ?10:30
fwereadedavecheney, morning20:53
fwereadedavecheney, I was wondering if you considered https://codereview.appspot.com/8953044 suitably trivial? it was agreed in the discussions preceding the original CL but we forgot to actually implement it then :/20:54
* fwereade goes to do housey things for a bit, will be back soon20:55
fwereaderogpeppe1, heyhey21:10
fwereaderogpeppe1, how's it going?21:10
rogpeppe1fwereade: trying to write family emails and you're a welcome distraction :-)21:11
rogpeppe1fwereade: how's you?21:11
fwereaderogpeppe1, I consider https://codereview.appspot.com/8953044 to be plausibly trivial, because this was always the agreed behaviour AIUI: https://codereview.appspot.com/895304421:11
fwereaderogpeppe1, I's good :)21:11
* rogpeppe1 is not looking at anything work related just now21:11
fwereaderogpeppe1, a few cylinders are starting to fire again21:11
fwereaderogpeppe1, no worries :)21:12
rogpeppe1fwereade: that's good. you must've burned out a few21:12
fwereaderogpeppe1, had a nice weekend, lots of laura time21:12
fwereaderogpeppe1, was definitely needed21:12
rogpeppe1fwereade: we had a nice weekend building smart new veg beds from old scaff boards21:13
fwereaderogpeppe1, excellent21:13
rogpeppe1fwereade: not quite done yet, but excellent progress made (and some celebratory g&ts as the sun went down)21:14
fwereaderogpeppe1, I've been reading jonathan strange and mr norrell21:14
rogpeppe1fwereade: good innit?21:14
fwereaderogpeppe1, it's rather good I think21:14
fwereaderogpeppe1, oh yes21:14
rogpeppe1fwereade: i kinda stole it off my sister in law one xmas (she'd just been given it) and read it far too fast before she noticed21:15
rogpeppe1fwereade: i'm on the fourth bear21:15
rogpeppe1fwereade: but not v far in21:15
fwereaderogpeppe1, haha, nice, I have done that on a few occasions21:15
fwereaderogpeppe1, it is not impossible that you will cast it aside with a bewildered WTF, I am not sure how much my enjoyment of that one was based on knowledge of the wider world from his other books21:17
rogpeppe1fwereade: the fire is flaming nicely and the foster cat is happily snoozing on the sofa.21:17
rogpeppe1fwereade: we'll see21:17
rogpeppe1fwereade: i'm reserving judgement for the moment21:17
rogpeppe1fwereade: the context i had from you has been useful21:18
fwereaderogpeppe1, yeah, I don't think that's explained at all21:18
fwereaderogpeppe1, at least not when you kinda need to know it21:18
rogpeppe1fwereade: i think there was one brief aside21:18
rogpeppe1fwereade: interesting to see results of dave's stress tests.21:19
fwereaderogpeppe1, definitely21:19
rogpeppe1fwereade: oops, work related.21:19
rogpeppe1fwereade: must write email :-)21:20
fwereaderogpeppe1, do we ever need that internal api :)21:20
rogpeppe1fwereade: indeed21:20
fwereaderogpeppe1, I have a few threads I need to draw together myself21:20
rogpeppe1fwereade: i was happy that the gui seemed to work fine with all those nodes21:20
fwereaderogpeppe1, that's awesome21:20
rogpeppe1fwereade: that's only one client for the API mind :-)21:21
* fwereade removes hat21:21
fwereaderogpeppe1, sure21:21
fwereaderogpeppe1, but it's always nice to break after some other component ;p21:21
* rogpeppe1 hasn't quite worked out what to say on the subject of error reporting vs logging yet, but feels there is sensible something lurking around21:22
fwereaderogpeppe1, well, every piece of context you describe *could* be provided by logging21:25
rogpeppe1fwereade: if we were happy with logging 1GB/minute21:25
fwereaderogpeppe1, but it is indeed a tradeoff in many things21:26
rogpeppe1fwereade: yeah21:26
fwereaderogpeppe1, I think that more logging *and* more error context is likely to be generally helpful21:27
rogpeppe1fwereade: agreed21:28
rogpeppe1fwereade: that's the gist of my as yet uncomposed reply21:28
fwereaderogpeppe1, but there have been times when we have erred toward the massively redundant in our error messages, and I think that's also a problem21:28
rogpeppe1fwereade: if we err in that direction and prune as needed, i think that's a better approach than the opposite21:29
fwereaderogpeppe1, yeah21:29
fwereaderogpeppe1, I find myself pondering state though21:29
fwereaderogpeppe1, there are a lot of places we pass up unadorned errors from mgo21:30
rogpeppe1fwereade: indeed21:30
rogpeppe1fwereade: let's not21:30
fwereaderogpeppe1, hmm -- this to me is actually a case where I think logging wins out21:31
fwereaderogpeppe1, "mgo said no" is generally independent of context -- the connection fell over, basically, and there's nowt to be done21:32
rogpeppe1fwereade: logging errors or logging actions?21:32
fwereaderogpeppe1, logging actions21:32
fwereaderogpeppe1, and leaving errors we can't account for to fall out, and the detailed context be pieced together as needed21:32
rogpeppe1fwereade: we generate enormous log files as is - i'm concerned about the volume of logging data we generate.21:32
rogpeppe1fwereade: or *will* generate.21:32
fwereaderogpeppe1, I think that actually implementing fricking log levels will address that21:33
rogpeppe1fwereade: the problem is that anyone in any significantly sized environment will dial back the log levels21:33
rogpeppe1fwereade: and then we'll be left with io.EOF21:34
fwereaderogpeppe1, we don't have to send everything everywhere21:34
rogpeppe1fwereade: that's a good point actually.21:35
rogpeppe1fwereade: but still, those API servers are gonna be helluva busy21:36
rogpeppe1fwereade: when everything's going through the api21:36
fwereaderogpeppe1, consider me undecided on how best to address logging21:36
rogpeppe1fwereade: yeah me too. i agree with you that a combination of better logging *and* better error reporting will be useful21:37
fwereaderogpeppe1, the distribution problem smells a little of being amenable to charming, if we can figure out the right interface to expose21:37
rogpeppe1fwereade: perhaps. some volume estimations may well be useful.21:38
fwereaderogpeppe1, yeah, just an idle thought21:39
fwereaderogpeppe1, have been having slightly less idle thoughts about an environs/resource package with Image and Spec structs and Map and Kind interfaces21:40
fwereaderogpeppe1, but I have been doing that when I should have been reviewing ian's stuff21:40
* fwereade gets he to a codereview21:41
rogpeppe1fwereade: interesting. i think there's something nice struggling to get out there but i haven't spent any time on it since maas appeared.21:41
fwereaderogpeppe1, it has kinda clicked -- not in the "it's perfect" sense but the "it's definitely *closer* to perfect" sense21:42
rogpeppe1fwereade: i want something that's not just a "this appeared vaguely similar in these providers" thing; something that's obviously genuinely helpful in current and future contexts.21:43
fwereaderogpeppe1, eg it will be as stupid as the individual implementations of Map are wrt caching21:43
fwereaderogpeppe1, well, it's a step that way -- I don't think Image should *really* be a struct, but I don't want to speculate too far21:43
rogpeppe1fwereade: i really need to get back to what i'm supposed to be doing :-) look forward to continuing discussions around this topic21:44
fwereaderogpeppe1, likewise21:44
fwereaderogpeppe1, hey sorry 1 thing?21:44
rogpeppe1fwereade: 1 :-)21:44
rogpeppe1fwereade: go on21:45
fwereaderogpeppe1, davecheney mentioned you were going to fix the unassigned unit thing seen with juju-gui to machine 0; please chat to me about it at your convenience, ideally prior to implementation, I have thoughts21:45
fwereaderogpeppe1, but not now21:45
rogpeppe1fwereade: bug #?21:46
fwereaderogpeppe1, not sure21:46
fwereaderogpeppe1, if it's not currently on your mind you can leave it on mine, but I'll cc you in in case it rings a bell, I have a half-reply open21:47
rogpeppe1fwereade: doesn't ring a bell currently, unless it's the failed deploy thing, in which case i just reported the bug, and had no immediate intention of fixing it21:49
fwereaderogpeppe1, ah great, I'll find it and assign it to myself then, I have a CL up that addresses the best currently-addressable subset of the problem, I think21:50
rogpeppe1fwereade: #1173089 ?21:58
_mup_Bug #1173089: deploy can fail partially <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173089>21:58
fwereaderogpeppe1, yeah, that's the one21:59
fwereaderogpeppe1, got distracted by another bug ;p21:59
fwereaderogpeppe1, fwiw I don't think we should rollback -- I think create/assign should be a single txn22:00
rogpeppe1fwereade: yeah, probs22:29

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