smartboyhwHello zequence08:40
smartboyhw_Hello DarkEra:)09:26
DarkEragood morning smartboyhw_  :)09:26
* DarkEra needs coffee09:27
* smartboyhw_ gives DarkEra a cup of super-strong espersso:P09:27
DarkEraThanks smartboyhw_ In a super large cup i hope ? :D09:29
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Tjat09:32
smartboyhw_That cup is a 50 Litre one09:32
smartboyhw_DarkEra: LOL:P09:34
DarkEraok, now that is too much. I still want to live :D09:34
smartboyhw_DarkEra: OK. Let me give you 1 Litre of zequence special blend coffee with a Ubuntu Studio mug designed by madeinkobaia:P09:35
smartboyhw_sold by ttoine09:36
DarkErathat'll do it :D09:36
DarkEramembers get it free i hope :P09:36
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Gifted by smartboyhw_09:37
DarkErawell thank you :)09:37
DarkEraDarkEra , how do you wake up and feel great?09:38
DarkErawell, just jump in on IRC and have a chat with smartboyhw_  in the morning09:38
DarkErawhile drinking coffee from a Ubuntu Studio mug09:39
smartboyhw_DarkEra: self-chatting is not a good thing…09:39
DarkErasmartboyhw_, it's ok09:39
DarkErai know i'm nuts09:39
smartboyhw_DarkEra: :O09:41
* smartboyhw_ hides from nutty DarkEra09:41
* zequence sighs of relief, as another test was passed: network+09:45
zequenceMeans I can focus on other things more for a little while09:46
zequencelinux+ is next, so that's more close to home09:46
smartboyhw_zequence: Congratulations!09:47
zequencesmartboyhw_: Thanks09:47
zequenceSo, let the planning start!09:48
smartboyhw_zequence: \o/09:48
smartboyhw_So what things we have on the whiteboard? linux-rt, DE support, ubuntustudio-controls...09:49
DarkErazequence, congrats :)09:51
smartboyhw_zequence: What test it is? Is it paper-written? How much does the exam cost?09:53
zequencesmartboyhw_: It's done on a dumb client, and the test is a collection of 80 random questions, so each test is unique09:57
zequenceDon't know the cost. I'm not paying for it myself (the unemployment office is), but I estimate it to be somehwere between 250-700$09:58
zequenceFirst, I will start looking at what we didn't complete for raring, and move over + reorganize those workitems09:59
zequenceThen I'll make sure everything we've planned but not yet written down is documented10:00
zequenceLastly, we need to discuss further planning on the mail list10:00
DarkErahttp://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=extix ---> anyone knows this?10:27
DarkEraby the way i also noticed that there are no screenshots shown on distrowatch of Ubuntu Studio in the Weekly/released last week part and on some other reviews/blogs. :/10:29
smartboyhw_DarkEra: :/10:30
smartboyhw_Hmm that Extix thing should effectively be killed since it violates our trademarj10:32
smartboyhw_zequence: It does come from Sweden though…10:32
DarkErasmartboyhw_, seems to be a older guy who 'made' this distro10:34
DarkErajust looking on facebook10:34
smartboyhw_DarkEra: What do you mean by "an older guy"?10:34
DarkErasmartboyhw_, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Exton-Linux/12535762752434310:34
smartboyhw_DarkEra: I can't view the link (I don't have Facebook)10:35
* smartboyhw_ has parents that are anti-Facebooks10:35
DarkErai could write a comment but want to know what zequence thinks of all this10:36
DarkErasmartboyhw_, oh, i see10:36
DarkEradidn't know that10:36
smartboyhw_DarkEra: I think zequence is the one to file a trademark infringement…10:36
DarkErausing a Ubuntu Studio wallpaper with that logo can be confusing to people out there10:37
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Or maybe Canonical is the one to file infringements…10:38
DarkErasmartboyhw_, from what i can see that man is just remastering distro's and puts them out in the world. There's also a exGENT (Gentoo) of the same guy10:39
DarkEraanyhoo, something must be done about the wallpaper though10:40
smartboyhw_DarkEra: OK. But they shouldn't be using our wallpaper (albeit an old one)10:41
DarkErathat's what i mean :)10:41
DarkEraand is the reason i put it in here10:41
smartboyhw_zequence: Can you have a look at http://linux.exton.net/node/1171 ?10:42
DarkEradoes he have multiple sites?10:43
* DarkEra is getting even more confused10:45
* smartboyhw_ is infuriated10:45
DarkEra*eye twitching*10:46
zequenceI wouldn't pay too much notice to that10:56
zequenceIt's one guy, doing a sort of Ubuntu Gnome, with some custom addons (some which might not be legal)10:57
zequence(he mentions codecs)10:57
zequenceAt least for redistribution10:57
smartboyhw_zequence: OK then10:57
smartboyhw_zequence: You know how to install bzr in Android? (LOL)10:58
DarkEraok but still i don't agree on using a wallpaper of our project for his remaster10:58
zequenceI don't know much about reuising trademarks in wallpapers. Maybe he was unaware of that the CEF is a symbol for Ubuntu Studio10:59
zequenceAlso, I'm not sure about the legal status of that symbol10:59
smartboyhw_zequence: OK11:00
DarkEraneed another coffee and hope my wife get's back soon, need to pick up something later on11:00
zequenceI'll send him an email about it11:00
smartboyhw_zequence: Thanks!11:01
DarkErazequence, uhm... ubuntu studio is a registered trademark of Canonical Ltd. thus so is the logo from my point of view11:01
smartboyhw_DarkEra, zequence eee that will involve Canonical in it:O11:02
* smartboyhw_ is now wondering will that alarm the CC (shan't)11:04
zequenceDarkEra: The logo is a different story11:13
smartboyhw_zequence: Meh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio says three years while the main website says 511:13
zequenceDarkEra: Only the name is Canical, AFAIK11:13
zequencesmartboyhw_: You are welcome to double check the actual support time11:14
smartboyhw_zequence: Oh11:14
smartboyhw_zequence: Should be 5 I think.11:14
zequenceI sent him an email about it, so let's see what he says11:15
smartboyhw_zequence: \o/11:16
DarkErazequence, oh ok. And thanks for sending the mail. Let's see what his answer will be.11:21
DarkEraabout the LTS time... i was confused... is it 5 or 3 years of support?11:21
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Starting from 12.04 LTS all LTS releases are supposed to be supported for 5 years, no matter desktop or server.11:22
DarkErai know Ubuntu itself has 5 years but i read that xubuntu and ubu studio only had 3 years with 12.0411:22
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Oh11:23
zequenceThe support is equal to all. I can't think of why it wouldn't be11:23
DarkEraThe 12.04 release, codenamed Precise Pangolin, is a Long Term Support release, which means it has support for 3 years11:24
zequenceI think perhaps the release period was made longer after the release. Deserves some investigation perhaps11:24
zequenceI think those release notes are wrong11:24
smartboyhw_DarkEra: zequence: Xubuntu IS three years11:25
DarkErai wonder why11:25
zequenceAgain, I believe the period was made longer11:26
zequencePlease do not look at news or statements from just around the release11:26
smartboyhw_zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu11:26
smartboyhw_Even the release NOTES says that:O11:26
DarkErai could ask in the xubuntu channel to make sure.11:26
smartboyhw_zequence: Please ask for us in #xubuntu-devel :)11:27
DarkErasmartboyhw_, i dropped the question in their channel11:27
smartboyhw_DarkEra: Which?11:28
* smartboyhw_ never joined #xubuntu 11:28
DarkEra<TheSheep> !lts11:29
DarkEra<ubottu> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Xubuntu will be supported for 3 years. The current LTS version is !Precise (Precise Pangolin 12.04)11:29
zequenceSeems like Xubuntu have decided among themselves to only support the LTS for three years11:29
zequenceBut, that's Xubuntu11:29
zequenceDarkEra: Nowadays, it means 5 years11:29
smartboyhw_zequence: Hmm that's strange 11:29
zequenceKubuntu will be supporting the LTS for 5 years11:30
zequenceSo, 5 years it is11:30
DarkErayep and since we base on Xubuntu Scott took it over with 12.04 i guess11:30
DarkErawe need to change it and make it clear for once :)11:30
smartboyhw_zequence: DarkEra: Then can you guys change it? Thx!11:31
* smartboyhw_ likes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument very detailed11:32
zequencesmartboyhw_: Why not you, since you brought it up?11:33
smartboyhw_zequence: Can't, I'm in mobile.11:33
smartboyhw_If not I would've done it already.11:34
zequence"will be supported for three years per the Xubuntu LTS plan."11:34
smartboyhw_zequence: What sort of plan is that?:O11:34
zequenceThat's from the Xubuntu release notes11:34
zequenceTheir plan11:34
smartboyhw_zequence: Grrrr11:35
* smartboyhw_ does think the Xubuntu team is rather conservative11:35
smartboyhw_Fortunately knome isn't here:P11:35
zequenceI'm unable to login to the wiki. Some new SSO problem11:39
smartboyhw_zequence: :O11:40
smartboyhw_zequence: Are you in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users ? Xubuntu is going to have a Project Lead election and people in it can vote (which is rather interesting)11:41
zequenceok, now I'm in11:41
zequencesmartboyhw_: No, I'm not involved in that11:42
smartboyhw_zequence: \o/ 11:42
smartboyhw_zequence: It's rather one-sided though, the XPL election11:42
smartboyhw_ttoine: Greetings!11:42
* smartboyhw_ now doesn't know who to vote for Kubuntu Council grrr11:44
DarkEraok guys, i'll be back later again, got some things to do12:17
smartboyhwzequence: For Saucy, are we planning for 1 Beta as originally planned for Raring or 2 Betas like what we finally did for Raring or what?14:03
smartboyhwWb DarkEra14:13
DarkErathanks :)14:13
zequencesmartboyhw: Either we do structured testing before the final beta, or we do both betas. I think the former would do. Testing is one of those subjects that still needs to be developed14:19
zequenceThis cycle I will put more energy on the testing bit too. We need to test new packages, and make sure all of our multimedia software is functional well before any beta releases14:20
smartboyhwzequence: OK14:29
DarkEralooks like i'm missing out too much chat here :)14:32
smartboyhwDarkEra: No. The only thing you missed was my question.14:34
DarkEraah, ok14:34
DarkErawhy would someone still have songbird packaged when they dropped linux support15:09
DarkErableh... i read that wrong i guess... lol15:17
smartboyhwDarkEra: lol15:18
madeinkobaiaHi all : )18:06
DarkEraaloha madeinkobaia 18:10
madeinkobaiaHi darkera : ) How are you ?18:13
DarkErabesides a cold i caught i'm doing fine. :) how are you?18:14
madeinkobaiaFine : )18:19
zequenceI'm building ardour3 in my testing ppa now, just for the sake of practicing. Updated 4 of its dependencies, hoping that will be enough to build it.20:01
zequenceOr, rather, I'm still building the dependencies20:02
DarkEraspeaking of ... i'm playing around with ardour2, busy with a new track after all these years20:19
DarkEralooking forward to ardour 320:20
zequenceI was actually mixing an album for a friend just now, but got tired of some problems I had with ardour2, or rather mixbus20:22
zequenceGoing to give ardour3 a go now20:23
DarkEracool stuff :)20:26
zequenceDarkEra: I'm building it at ppa:zequence/testing20:27
zequencedamn, one build failed20:27
zequenceAh, no20:27
DarkErazequence, thanks. might have a look later on :)20:27
zequenceJust LP being hard to decipher20:27
zequenceIf the build works (which seems likely), it should be ready by tomorrow20:28
DarkErai tried ardour 3 on dreamstudio once before i switched over here :)20:28
DarkErahey cool20:28
zequenceApparently the build servers aren't particularly busy atm, since they start building at once20:28
zequenceEveryone's on holiday20:29
DarkEralol, guess they are after the hard work on the release20:29
DarkErabookmarked the ppa ;)21:20
zequenceSeems like there are some missing dependencies in the original Debian source. Should be fixed now21:30
DarkEracool :)21:39
DarkErabah... steel need to catch up on some sleep and get a more focussed brain if i want to get into the dev thing21:41
zequencehmm "Missing libs/ardour/revision.cc.  Blame the packager."21:44
DarkErazequence, i have Gnome 3 installed on another partition and added the Gnome 3 ppa to get 3.8. Looks nice to me so far. Much better and smoother than 3.4 was21:46
DarkEraas long as you don't blame me^^21:47
DarkErai didn't package it :P21:47
zequenceDarkEra: I had some problems with it myself. The OS totally crashed21:47
zequenceI need to reinstall21:47
DarkEraborked it yourself?21:48
zequenceI just did an update, and then it didn't boot anymore21:49
DarkErawell, that kinda sucks.21:58
zequenceWell, I think I fixed it with a patch that falktx had added to his build ;)22:10
* falktx is missing context22:11
zequencefalktx: I was just practicing debian packaging by getting ardour3 prepped for a PPA22:11
falktxah cool22:12
zequencegot the four dependencies built first, that were not available yet in raring, added a couple of build dependencies, but wscript was giving me problems still22:12
zequenceso, I had a look at your build22:13
falktxah yes, 22:14
falktxardour3 build is broken on purpose22:14
falktxafaik the ardour devs are against packaging it22:14
falktxbut that is no fair for a studio distro, we need ardour322:14
len-1304If there was a reasonable way to download from their site on install I would be happy (er)22:16
zequenceI suppose ardour devs would prefer a different way of distributing packages for distros, one where they have more control22:16
len-1304When they offer the src they have given that control up.22:17
zequenceOf course, the license doesn't give them the right to decide on how it's distributed, but I think they would prefer another kind of culture around package distribution22:18
zequenceThere are other ways to do things than the way Debian does it22:18
len-1304The way to do that is to provide a package distros can use22:18
zequenceDebian doesn't use ready binaries, unless it's non-free. Everything is built from source22:20
len-1304yup, This allows changing libs as needed22:20
zequenceAnd everything is adapted to the Debian policy22:21
zequenceDon't know what possibilities there would be using the Ubuntu Software Center thing22:21
zequenceArdour could add a package there, and even charge for it22:22
len-1304A live ISO without ardour would not be as nice.22:22
zequenceI'm not suggesting we follow Ardours wishes22:22
len-1304USC would want a defined price22:22
zequenceWell, maybe USC should be more flexible22:23
zequenceJust saying there are many ways to do things22:23
zequenceSome people think the current model is not for the future22:24
zequencedependency hell22:24
len-1304I am not sure what the best route is.22:24
zequenceproviding the source is a fundamental must22:25
len-1304Jack is looking at including the opus lib because the one debian ships is not usable.22:25
zequenceBut, it would be nice to have a system where you can use any version of software just by doing one command, and also, being able to use many different versions on the same system22:26
len-1304many? One per user might work, but two system wide (maybe three) are about it.22:27
zequenceThere's no reason to have restrictions on that22:27
zequenceIf I want to be able to run 10 different version of an application on my system, that is what I should be able to do22:28
zequenceSimple as that22:28
zequencethere's much more reason to have many different versions of libraries, than applications of course22:28
len-1304So long as they are in different directories it can be done. Ardour does this and can work.22:28
len-1304Many libs can be used... often two or more are.22:29
zequenceAlso, static releases is not for the future either22:30
len-1304But they work better now and future than in the past :)22:30
zequenceEither the file system hierachy needs to add a name system that uses versioning, to keep track of multiple libraries and applications, all simultaniously installed on the system, or, packages should include them all in on package, or both22:32
zequenceI mean, about the package, the way the offical Ardour3 is packaged22:33
len-1304I think in that case there needs to be a division between "added" SW and what comes with the OS or distro22:34
len-1304Not sure where the line would be drawn though.22:34
zequenceI think Windows does something of the sort, where if you remove some applications, if there are system libraries that no other application is using, it's supposed to be removed22:35
zequenceAnd say you have old versions of libraries. The packaging system on the OS should be able to keep track of when an older version of a library becomes redundant, and can be removed22:36
len-1304deb/ub sort of do that too... It would be nice if older kernels were removed once in a while though.22:36
zequencedebian only keeps one version at the time, not many22:36
zequencenot talking about kernels22:37
len-1304more than one version of tcl/tk, more than one version of the major gnome libs.22:37
len-1304not more than one package version of the same lib version though.22:38
zequenceSome libs do have version naming, yes, you are right22:39
zequenceBut, not all22:39
zequenceit's just <library>22:39
len-1304That is left up to the SW author or the packager. I would think any package could be built versioned22:44
zequenceI'm not talking about individual packages. I'm talking about the policy of the entire system22:44
len-1304most src allows the base dir to be spec-ed at build time22:44
zequenceanyway, seems like ardour3 got built finally22:45
len-1304Yes, but what I am saying is that if an org (like debian) decided to impose that, the src would not stop it from being done.22:45
zequencewell, of course not, as long as you have access to the source. Also, it is quite possible to suggest policy changes upstream to SW authors, if nothing else, then in the form of "if" defitions22:49
DarkErai'm off to catch up on some sleep, chat you later guys :)23:26

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