[08:40] <smartboyhw> Hello zequence
[09:26] <smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra:)
[09:26] <DarkEra> good morning smartboyhw_  :)
[09:27] <DarkEra> yaaawn....
[09:27]  * DarkEra needs coffee
[09:27]  * smartboyhw_ gives DarkEra a cup of super-strong espersso:P
[09:29] <DarkEra> Thanks smartboyhw_ In a super large cup i hope ? :D
[09:32] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Tjat
[09:32] <smartboyhw_> That cup is a 50 Litre one
[09:34] <DarkEra> O_o
[09:34] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: LOL:P
[09:34] <DarkEra> ok, now that is too much. I still want to live :D
[09:35] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: OK. Let me give you 1 Litre of zequence special blend coffee with a Ubuntu Studio mug designed by madeinkobaia:P
[09:36] <smartboyhw_> sold by ttoine
[09:36] <DarkEra> that'll do it :D
[09:36] <DarkEra> members get it free i hope :P
[09:37] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Gifted by smartboyhw_
[09:37] <DarkEra> well thank you :)
[09:38] <DarkEra> DarkEra , how do you wake up and feel great?
[09:38] <DarkEra> well, just jump in on IRC and have a chat with smartboyhw_  in the morning
[09:39] <DarkEra> while drinking coffee from a Ubuntu Studio mug
[09:39] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: self-chatting is not a good thing…
[09:39] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, it's ok
[09:39] <DarkEra> i know i'm nuts
[09:41] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: :O
[09:41]  * smartboyhw_ hides from nutty DarkEra
[09:43] <DarkEra> lol
[09:45]  * zequence sighs of relief, as another test was passed: network+
[09:46] <zequence> Means I can focus on other things more for a little while
[09:46] <zequence> linux+ is next, so that's more close to home
[09:47] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Congratulations!
[09:47] <zequence> smartboyhw_: Thanks
[09:48] <zequence> So, let the planning start!
[09:48] <smartboyhw_> zequence: \o/
[09:49] <smartboyhw_> So what things we have on the whiteboard? linux-rt, DE support, ubuntustudio-controls...
[09:51] <DarkEra> zequence, congrats :)
[09:53] <smartboyhw_> zequence: What test it is? Is it paper-written? How much does the exam cost?
[09:57] <zequence> smartboyhw_: It's done on a dumb client, and the test is a collection of 80 random questions, so each test is unique
[09:58] <zequence> Don't know the cost. I'm not paying for it myself (the unemployment office is), but I estimate it to be somehwere between 250-700$
[09:59] <zequence> First, I will start looking at what we didn't complete for raring, and move over + reorganize those workitems
[10:00] <zequence> Then I'll make sure everything we've planned but not yet written down is documented
[10:00] <zequence> Lastly, we need to discuss further planning on the mail list
[10:27] <DarkEra> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=extix ---> anyone knows this?
[10:29] <DarkEra> by the way i also noticed that there are no screenshots shown on distrowatch of Ubuntu Studio in the Weekly/released last week part and on some other reviews/blogs. :/
[10:30] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: :/
[10:32] <smartboyhw_> Hmm that Extix thing should effectively be killed since it violates our trademarj
[10:32] <smartboyhw_> zequence: It does come from Sweden though…
[10:34] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, seems to be a older guy who 'made' this distro
[10:34] <DarkEra> just looking on facebook
[10:34] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: What do you mean by "an older guy"?
[10:34] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Exton-Linux/125357627524343
[10:35] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: I can't view the link (I don't have Facebook)
[10:35]  * smartboyhw_ has parents that are anti-Facebooks
[10:36] <DarkEra> i could write a comment but want to know what zequence thinks of all this
[10:36] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, oh, i see
[10:36] <DarkEra> didn't know that
[10:36] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: I think zequence is the one to file a trademark infringement…
[10:37] <DarkEra> using a Ubuntu Studio wallpaper with that logo can be confusing to people out there
[10:38] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Or maybe Canonical is the one to file infringements…
[10:39] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, from what i can see that man is just remastering distro's and puts them out in the world. There's also a exGENT (Gentoo) of the same guy
[10:40] <DarkEra> anyhoo, something must be done about the wallpaper though
[10:41] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: OK. But they shouldn't be using our wallpaper (albeit an old one)
[10:41] <DarkEra> that's what i mean :)
[10:41] <DarkEra> and is the reason i put it in here
[10:42] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Can you have a look at http://linux.exton.net/node/1171 ?
[10:43] <DarkEra> http://www.extix.se/
[10:43] <DarkEra> does he have multiple sites?
[10:44] <smartboyhw_> lol
[10:45]  * DarkEra is getting even more confused
[10:45]  * smartboyhw_ is infuriated
[10:46] <DarkEra> *eye twitching*
[10:56] <zequence> I wouldn't pay too much notice to that
[10:57] <zequence> It's one guy, doing a sort of Ubuntu Gnome, with some custom addons (some which might not be legal)
[10:57] <zequence> (he mentions codecs)
[10:57] <zequence> At least for redistribution
[10:57] <smartboyhw_> zequence: OK then
[10:58] <smartboyhw_> zequence: You know how to install bzr in Android? (LOL)
[10:58] <DarkEra> ok but still i don't agree on using a wallpaper of our project for his remaster
[10:59] <zequence> I don't know much about reuising trademarks in wallpapers. Maybe he was unaware of that the CEF is a symbol for Ubuntu Studio
[10:59] <zequence> Also, I'm not sure about the legal status of that symbol
[11:00] <smartboyhw_> zequence: OK
[11:00] <DarkEra> need another coffee and hope my wife get's back soon, need to pick up something later on
[11:00] <zequence> I'll send him an email about it
[11:01] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Thanks!
[11:01] <DarkEra> zequence, uhm... ubuntu studio is a registered trademark of Canonical Ltd. thus so is the logo from my point of view
[11:01] <DarkEra> :)
[11:02] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra, zequence eee that will involve Canonical in it:O
[11:03] <DarkEra> :P
[11:04]  * smartboyhw_ is now wondering will that alarm the CC (shan't)
[11:06] <smartboyhw_> Back…
[11:13] <zequence> DarkEra: The logo is a different story
[11:13] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Meh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio says three years while the main website says 5
[11:13] <zequence> DarkEra: Only the name is Canical, AFAIK
[11:14] <zequence> smartboyhw_: You are welcome to double check the actual support time
[11:14] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Oh
[11:14] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Should be 5 I think.
[11:15] <zequence> I sent him an email about it, so let's see what he says
[11:16] <smartboyhw_> zequence: \o/
[11:21] <DarkEra> zequence, oh ok. And thanks for sending the mail. Let's see what his answer will be.
[11:21] <DarkEra> about the LTS time... i was confused... is it 5 or 3 years of support?
[11:22] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Starting from 12.04 LTS all LTS releases are supposed to be supported for 5 years, no matter desktop or server.
[11:22] <DarkEra> i know Ubuntu itself has 5 years but i read that xubuntu and ubu studio only had 3 years with 12.04
[11:23] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Oh
[11:23] <zequence> The support is equal to all. I can't think of why it wouldn't be
[11:23] <DarkEra> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
[11:24] <DarkEra> The 12.04 release, codenamed Precise Pangolin, is a Long Term Support release, which means it has support for 3 years
[11:24] <zequence> I think perhaps the release period was made longer after the release. Deserves some investigation perhaps
[11:24] <zequence> I think those release notes are wrong
[11:25] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: zequence: Xubuntu IS three years
[11:25] <DarkEra> i wonder why
[11:25] <smartboyhw_> http://xubuntu.org/news/12-04-release/
[11:26] <zequence> Again, I believe the period was made longer
[11:26] <zequence> Please do not look at news or statements from just around the release
[11:26] <smartboyhw_> zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
[11:26] <smartboyhw_> Even the release NOTES says that:O
[11:26] <DarkEra> i could ask in the xubuntu channel to make sure.
[11:27] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Please ask for us in #xubuntu-devel :)
[11:27] <DarkEra> smartboyhw_, i dropped the question in their channel
[11:28] <smartboyhw_> DarkEra: Which?
[11:28]  * smartboyhw_ never joined #xubuntu 
 !lts
 LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Xubuntu will be supported for 3 years. The current LTS version is !Precise (Precise Pangolin 12.04)
[11:29] <smartboyhw_> …
[11:29] <zequence> Seems like Xubuntu have decided among themselves to only support the LTS for three years
[11:29] <zequence> But, that's Xubuntu
[11:29] <zequence> DarkEra: Nowadays, it means 5 years
[11:29] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
[11:29] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Hmm that's strange 
[11:30] <zequence> Kubuntu will be supporting the LTS for 5 years
[11:30] <zequence> So, 5 years it is
[11:30] <DarkEra> yep and since we base on Xubuntu Scott took it over with 12.04 i guess
[11:30] <DarkEra> we need to change it and make it clear for once :)
[11:31] <smartboyhw_> zequence: DarkEra: Then can you guys change it? Thx!
[11:32]  * smartboyhw_ likes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument very detailed
[11:33] <zequence> smartboyhw_: Why not you, since you brought it up?
[11:33] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Can't, I'm in mobile.
[11:34] <smartboyhw_> If not I would've done it already.
[11:34] <zequence> "will be supported for three years per the Xubuntu LTS plan."
[11:34] <smartboyhw_> zequence: What sort of plan is that?:O
[11:34] <zequence> That's from the Xubuntu release notes
[11:34] <zequence> Their plan
[11:35] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Grrrr
[11:35]  * smartboyhw_ does think the Xubuntu team is rather conservative
[11:35] <smartboyhw_> Fortunately knome isn't here:P
[11:39] <zequence> I'm unable to login to the wiki. Some new SSO problem
[11:40] <smartboyhw_> zequence: :O
[11:41] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Are you in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users ? Xubuntu is going to have a Project Lead election and people in it can vote (which is rather interesting)
[11:41] <zequence> ok, now I'm in
[11:42] <zequence> smartboyhw_: No, I'm not involved in that
[11:42] <smartboyhw_> zequence: \o/ 
[11:42] <smartboyhw_> zequence: It's rather one-sided though, the XPL election
[11:42] <smartboyhw_> ttoine: Greetings!
[11:44]  * smartboyhw_ now doesn't know who to vote for Kubuntu Council grrr
[12:11] <ttoine> hey
[12:17] <DarkEra> ok guys, i'll be back later again, got some things to do
[14:03] <smartboyhw> zequence: For Saucy, are we planning for 1 Beta as originally planned for Raring or 2 Betas like what we finally did for Raring or what?
[14:13] <smartboyhw> Wb DarkEra
[14:13] <DarkEra> thanks :)
[14:19] <zequence> smartboyhw: Either we do structured testing before the final beta, or we do both betas. I think the former would do. Testing is one of those subjects that still needs to be developed
[14:20] <zequence> This cycle I will put more energy on the testing bit too. We need to test new packages, and make sure all of our multimedia software is functional well before any beta releases
[14:29] <smartboyhw> zequence: OK
[14:32] <DarkEra> looks like i'm missing out too much chat here :)
[14:34] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: No. The only thing you missed was my question.
[14:34] <DarkEra> ah, ok
[15:09] <DarkEra> why would someone still have songbird packaged when they dropped linux support
[15:17] <DarkEra> bleh... i read that wrong i guess... lol
[15:18] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: lol
[18:06] <madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
[18:10] <DarkEra> aloha madeinkobaia 
[18:13] <madeinkobaia> Hi darkera : ) How are you ?
[18:14] <DarkEra> besides a cold i caught i'm doing fine. :) how are you?
[18:19] <madeinkobaia> Fine : )
[20:01] <zequence> I'm building ardour3 in my testing ppa now, just for the sake of practicing. Updated 4 of its dependencies, hoping that will be enough to build it.
[20:02] <zequence> Or, rather, I'm still building the dependencies
[20:19] <DarkEra> speaking of ... i'm playing around with ardour2, busy with a new track after all these years
[20:20] <DarkEra> looking forward to ardour 3
[20:22] <zequence> I was actually mixing an album for a friend just now, but got tired of some problems I had with ardour2, or rather mixbus
[20:23] <zequence> Going to give ardour3 a go now
[20:26] <DarkEra> cool stuff :)
[20:27] <zequence> DarkEra: I'm building it at ppa:zequence/testing
[20:27] <zequence> damn, one build failed
[20:27] <zequence> Ah, no
[20:27] <DarkEra> zequence, thanks. might have a look later on :)
[20:27] <zequence> Just LP being hard to decipher
[20:28] <zequence> If the build works (which seems likely), it should be ready by tomorrow
[20:28] <DarkEra> i tried ardour 3 on dreamstudio once before i switched over here :)
[20:28] <DarkEra> hey cool
[20:28] <zequence> Apparently the build servers aren't particularly busy atm, since they start building at once
[20:29] <zequence> Everyone's on holiday
[20:29] <zequence> https://launchpad.net/~zequence/+archive/testing/+packages
[20:29] <DarkEra> lol, guess they are after the hard work on the release
[20:29] <DarkEra> brb
[21:20] <DarkEra> bookmarked the ppa ;)
[21:30] <zequence> Seems like there are some missing dependencies in the original Debian source. Should be fixed now
[21:39] <DarkEra> cool :)
[21:41] <DarkEra> bah... steel need to catch up on some sleep and get a more focussed brain if i want to get into the dev thing
[21:41] <DarkEra> steel/still*
[21:44] <zequence> hmm "Missing libs/ardour/revision.cc.  Blame the packager."
[21:46] <DarkEra> zequence, i have Gnome 3 installed on another partition and added the Gnome 3 ppa to get 3.8. Looks nice to me so far. Much better and smoother than 3.4 was
[21:47] <DarkEra> as long as you don't blame me^^
[21:47] <DarkEra> i didn't package it :P
[21:47] <zequence> DarkEra: I had some problems with it myself. The OS totally crashed
[21:47] <zequence> I need to reinstall
[21:48] <DarkEra> oops
[21:48] <DarkEra> borked it yourself?
[21:49] <zequence> I just did an update, and then it didn't boot anymore
[21:58] <DarkEra> well, that kinda sucks.
[22:10] <zequence> Well, I think I fixed it with a patch that falktx had added to his build ;)
[22:11] <falktx> hm?
[22:11]  * falktx is missing context
[22:11] <zequence> falktx: I was just practicing debian packaging by getting ardour3 prepped for a PPA
[22:12] <falktx> ah cool
[22:12] <zequence> got the four dependencies built first, that were not available yet in raring, added a couple of build dependencies, but wscript was giving me problems still
[22:13] <zequence> so, I had a look at your build
[22:14] <falktx> ah yes, 
[22:14] <falktx> ardour3 build is broken on purpose
[22:14] <falktx> afaik the ardour devs are against packaging it
[22:14] <falktx> but that is no fair for a studio distro, we need ardour3
[22:16] <len-1304> If there was a reasonable way to download from their site on install I would be happy (er)
[22:16] <zequence> I suppose ardour devs would prefer a different way of distributing packages for distros, one where they have more control
[22:17] <len-1304> When they offer the src they have given that control up.
[22:18] <zequence> Of course, the license doesn't give them the right to decide on how it's distributed, but I think they would prefer another kind of culture around package distribution
[22:18] <zequence> There are other ways to do things than the way Debian does it
[22:18] <len-1304> The way to do that is to provide a package distros can use
[22:20] <zequence> Debian doesn't use ready binaries, unless it's non-free. Everything is built from source
[22:20] <len-1304> yup, This allows changing libs as needed
[22:21] <zequence> And everything is adapted to the Debian policy
[22:21] <zequence> Don't know what possibilities there would be using the Ubuntu Software Center thing
[22:22] <zequence> Ardour could add a package there, and even charge for it
[22:22] <len-1304> A live ISO without ardour would not be as nice.
[22:22] <zequence> I'm not suggesting we follow Ardours wishes
[22:22] <len-1304> USC would want a defined price
[22:23] <zequence> Well, maybe USC should be more flexible
[22:23] <zequence> Just saying there are many ways to do things
[22:23] <len-1304> Yes.
[22:24] <zequence> Some people think the current model is not for the future
[22:24] <zequence> dependency hell
[22:24] <len-1304> I am not sure what the best route is.
[22:25] <zequence> providing the source is a fundamental must
[22:25] <len-1304> Jack is looking at including the opus lib because the one debian ships is not usable.
[22:26] <zequence> But, it would be nice to have a system where you can use any version of software just by doing one command, and also, being able to use many different versions on the same system
[22:27] <len-1304> many? One per user might work, but two system wide (maybe three) are about it.
[22:27] <zequence> There's no reason to have restrictions on that
[22:28] <zequence> If I want to be able to run 10 different version of an application on my system, that is what I should be able to do
[22:28] <zequence> Simple as that
[22:28] <zequence> there's much more reason to have many different versions of libraries, than applications of course
[22:28] <len-1304> So long as they are in different directories it can be done. Ardour does this and can work.
[22:29] <len-1304> Many libs can be used... often two or more are.
[22:30] <zequence> Also, static releases is not for the future either
[22:30] <len-1304> But they work better now and future than in the past :)
[22:32] <zequence> Either the file system hierachy needs to add a name system that uses versioning, to keep track of multiple libraries and applications, all simultaniously installed on the system, or, packages should include them all in on package, or both
[22:33] <zequence> I mean, about the package, the way the offical Ardour3 is packaged
[22:34] <len-1304> I think in that case there needs to be a division between "added" SW and what comes with the OS or distro
[22:34] <len-1304> Not sure where the line would be drawn though.
[22:35] <zequence> I think Windows does something of the sort, where if you remove some applications, if there are system libraries that no other application is using, it's supposed to be removed
[22:36] <zequence> And say you have old versions of libraries. The packaging system on the OS should be able to keep track of when an older version of a library becomes redundant, and can be removed
[22:36] <len-1304> deb/ub sort of do that too... It would be nice if older kernels were removed once in a while though.
[22:36] <zequence> debian only keeps one version at the time, not many
[22:37] <zequence> not talking about kernels
[22:37] <len-1304> more than one version of tcl/tk, more than one version of the major gnome libs.
[22:38] <len-1304> not more than one package version of the same lib version though.
[22:39] <zequence> Some libs do have version naming, yes, you are right
[22:39] <zequence> But, not all
[22:39] <zequence> it's just <library>
[22:44] <len-1304> That is left up to the SW author or the packager. I would think any package could be built versioned
[22:44] <zequence> I'm not talking about individual packages. I'm talking about the policy of the entire system
[22:44] <len-1304> most src allows the base dir to be spec-ed at build time
[22:45] <zequence> anyway, seems like ardour3 got built finally
[22:45] <len-1304> Yes, but what I am saying is that if an org (like debian) decided to impose that, the src would not stop it from being done.
[22:49] <zequence> well, of course not, as long as you have access to the source. Also, it is quite possible to suggest policy changes upstream to SW authors, if nothing else, then in the form of "if" defitions
[23:26] <DarkEra> i'm off to catch up on some sleep, chat you later guys :)