[03:15] <smartboyhw> Has balloons went to bed?
[03:29] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, I think so
[03:31] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: Meh. You completed the Q&A
[03:31] <smartboyhw> ?
[03:32] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, what do you mean?
[03:32] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: jajaja private message?
[03:33] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, ok
[04:03] <smartboyhw> Back
[04:07] <crhrabal> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-quality-feature-testing  proposed this blueprint for uds
[04:07] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, you're right
[04:08] <SergioMeneses> but it is "Pending Approval" now
[04:08] <crhrabal> yeah i just proposed it like an hour ago
[04:08] <crhrabal> but it's just an idea
[04:09] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, ;) Jono will approve it soon
[04:10] <crhrabal> We have had excellent quality in the isos and a lot of other things, I think that if these experimental ppas and other feature elements in production had more testing quality could be even better
[04:12] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, and dont forget ubuntu-touch :)
[04:16] <crhrabal> Things like Smart Scopes and Ubuntu-touch core apps are in production, and if those particular elements were singled out it would make those elements more stable.
[04:17] <crhrabal> There are just not enough testing of those sorts of things by the larger community, imho
[04:18] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: We will test smart scopes
[04:18] <smartboyhw> And the core apps
[04:19] <smartboyhw> We just haven't started
[04:19] <smartboyhw> If Smart Scopes isn't ready we can't test...
[04:20] <crhrabal> What do you mean isn't ready? There is a ppa out there now
[04:20] <crhrabal> It is no different then calls for testing new unity 7 ppas etc by the qa community
[04:20] <crhrabal> or testing daily isos that aren't completely stable.
[04:24] <crhrabal> http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/01/testing-hud-heads-up-display.html     things like this. This was a push for testing the ppa so that it was tested enough before it was in the repos. I just think that needs to be pushed heavier in this cycle
[04:24] <crhrabal> testing experimental in-development packages
[04:24] <SergioMeneses> ok guys nice talk but it's bedtime here, so I see you later
[04:24] <SergioMeneses> take care
[04:27] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Sure there is a PPA doesn't mean it's ready until the devs told us
[04:27] <smartboyhw> And I think ee DID test it before…
[04:28] <crhrabal> i mean the smart scopes ppa has been around for like 3 months now. Why shouldn't we be continuing to test it?
[04:28] <crhrabal> That just means more bugs reported
[04:29] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Em are all the smart scopes ready? I mean, if the features aren't ready there is no point to tedtllst
[04:29] <smartboyhw> *test
[04:31] <crhrabal> often many people try the ppas and things don't work and the devs say "works for me"
[04:31] <crhrabal> often daily isos are testing and devs might say "works for me"
[04:31] <crhrabal> but that's my point, if quality of daily isos which are constantly in development is a push for qa, why shouldn't packages which are in develpoment also be a push for qa?
[04:41] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: If the devs don't consider it ready, that means it doesn't workvfr t
[04:41] <smartboyhw> for them
[04:42] <crhrabal> It may work, but it might be too early to introduce it into the repos
[04:42] <crhrabal> that doesn't mean it doesn't work
[04:43] <crhrabal> i got the idea mainly from nicholas skaggs' blog http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/08/quality-perceptions-survey-results.html
[04:44] <crhrabal> i think that application testing is very important, and if you can't do any testing on these applications until they are proposed as 100 percent stable i think that you're working a lot slower
[04:46] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Well we DO DO application testing.
[04:46] <smartboyhw> The system works like this
[04:47] <smartboyhw> The devs from Canonical tell balloons (Nicholas Skaggs, Canonical Community QA Manager) to help testing
[04:47] <smartboyhw> Then balloons tells us to test.
[04:48] <crhrabal> Im not saying that it doesn't get done. I'm just suggesting ways to improve current qa
[04:48] <crhrabal> not saying anything done is bad, just suggest improvement
[04:49] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: We did test Smart Scopes once in http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[04:50] <crhrabal> okay so that's my point
[04:50] <crhrabal> if you did it once why wouldn't you continue to do it
[04:50] <crhrabal> or do it weekly
[04:50] <crhrabal> why say you did it once then say it's not worth testing at all?
[04:51] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Um we have different focuses each bi-week called cadence weeka
[04:51] <smartboyhw> *weeks
[04:51] <crhrabal> yeah, I understand that. All I'm suggesting is that these things become higher priority in cadence testing
[04:52] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Application testing IS the priority in cadence weeks…
[04:52] <crhrabal> I know. I'm just trying to have a bigger push for experimental features
[04:53] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: But we can't test too many applications
[04:53] <crhrabal> like you said, you've tested them before, so I don't think that it is impossible to test regularly
[04:54] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Too frequent isn't good either.
[04:54] <smartboyhw> Of course monthly on the SAME feature works
[04:54] <smartboyhw> balloons: ^
[04:55] <smartboyhw> But weekly: Not a good idea
[04:55] <crhrabal> smartboyhw: I have to disagree with you. How could more testing be a bad idea?
[04:55] <smartboyhw> Especially when we have Alpha and Beta images
[04:56] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: We have images to test…
[04:57] <crhrabal> Yes but the more people testing things the better. If you can push for these types of testings, the more chances that people will test them. I'm not saying that every tester needs to commit themselves to testing every package, I'm just suggesting a bigger push from within the qa community
[04:59] <crhrabal> and, if as in skagg's poll, if people consider quality to mean more than just being able to boot, but for core applications to work properly, then that needs to be just as important as being able to boot.
[05:01] <crhrabal> and if a new feature is implemented like a month before the cycle ends, I think that not enough testing ends up getting done on achieving this.
[05:04] <crhrabal> and again, it's just an idea, not meant to be a criticism towards anybody, just tryin to share some ideas for improving things as they currently stand
[05:04] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: One week it is Smart Scopes, another week it js Transmission and Totem anthoer week we have Unity 7.2
[05:05] <crhrabal> okay so why not test everything?
[05:05] <smartboyhw> We have dozens of application to test
[05:05] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: That's too much pressure…
[05:05] <crhrabal> It's no pressure, It's just more testing
[05:06] <crhrabal> No one is forced to test anything, but if the testcases exist it is better for everyone
[05:11] <crhrabal> but I think it'd be a discussion that would be worth having at uds as I think it'd be an improvement. I understand you disagree, but thanks for your feedback
[05:32] <smartboyhw> I'm not sure if we are able to test 20 applications at the samr tjme
[05:35] <crhrabal> I'm trying to brainstorm a goal, I'm not saying that it's the simplest goal ever
[05:36] <crhrabal> Saying that you don't have the ability to do regular testing on a lot of things because it is not as important as other things doesn't seem to be any solution for qa growth
[05:37] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: I don't mean that
[05:37] <smartboyhw> Application testing is important
[05:38] <smartboyhw> I"m thinking of a counter-idea
[05:39] <smartboyhw> We just simply open the QA Tracker for each app without specifying for which cadence weeks
[05:42] <crhrabal> Yeah, I just think anything shipping in 13.10 should be a high priority and should be tested early rather than later.  There is a lot of work to be done with isos and the regular cadences as it is.  On the iso tracker there are lots of testcases. Some of those testcases some testers will have the ability to run the test for those testcases. Some don't fit the hardware for testing those particular testcases.  In that case, not everyone ca
[05:42] <crhrabal> n always test everything,  and the same is true for applications.
[05:43] <crhrabal> so if it is tracked and tested by whatever means available, that is a good thing.
[05:44] <smartboyhw> When there is a new release of the app, people subscribed to the app will get notifications
[05:44] <smartboyhw> That's better
[05:45] <smartboyhw> And we tell people each week:Hey, this week when doing tests do this app first. If you can't test the others!
[05:45] <crhrabal> yeah
[05:46]  * balloons waves
[05:46] <balloons> bedtime here for me, but I can stay for a min
[05:46] <smartboyhw> Hey balloons
[05:46] <smartboyhw> crhrabal has an idea
[05:46] <smartboyhw> And I have another one:P
[05:47] <smartboyhw> Counter idea
[05:47] <crhrabal> yeah  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-quality-feature-testing
[05:47] <crhrabal> both ideas work, just tryin to get the ball rollin :P
[05:48] <smartboyhw> balloons: I will send you the answers when you wake up
[05:48] <balloons> I read the scrollback quickly
[05:48] <balloons> keep brainstorming! I like hearing about ideas like this
[05:48] <smartboyhw> crhrabal: Can you add my idea to the blueprint?
[05:49] <crhrabal> smartboyhw: can you rephrase your idea so i can copy it. I don't want to mispresent what you said
[05:50] <balloons> good stuff.. you can make me the approver on any blueprint you make..
[05:51] <balloons> i really must sleep now, but glad I took a look in here :-) smartboyhw if you need anything, email is best to contact me for the next few weeks
[05:51] <crhrabal> balloons: Okay, thanks.
[05:52] <balloons> crhrabal, my quick thoughts on your idea
[05:52] <balloons> i too would like to see us getting involved earlier and testing more iterations over longer periods
[05:52] <balloons> it requires more effort on our part, but is doable
[05:53] <balloons> as smartboyhw mentioned, it's possible for us to do so with the tools we have
[05:55] <crhrabal> balloons: Yeah, that's what I thought. I don't really think much really needs to change as far as how things are tracked regularly.
[05:55] <balloons> the changes are that we would need it to be availiable, and wanting testing.. but that has happened in some cases.. meaning, there is ppa's now and daily testing for unity for example
[05:56] <balloons> I must sleep.. good night!
[05:56] <balloons> crhrabal, feel free to ping or email :-)
[05:56] <crhrabal> balloons: take it easy, and thanks for listening
[06:59] <uberstudent-dot-> Anyone here?
[14:52] <smartboyhw_> Jajajajajajaja SergioMeneses;P
[14:53] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw_, morning!
[15:33] <balloons> SergioMeneses, smartboyhw morning
[15:33] <SergioMeneses> \o
[16:13] <njin> balloons, evening
[16:14] <njin> jumping to saucy
[16:23] <SergioMeneses> njin, \o perfect! using VM or real hw?
[16:23] <njin> SergioMeneses, real hardware
[16:23] <SergioMeneses> njin, awesome!
[16:24] <njin> Thanks
[16:25] <njin> uao, release notes ready
[16:25] <SergioMeneses> njin, ;) are you there?
[16:26] <njin> yes, now  setting software channels
[16:26] <SergioMeneses> njin, why guide are you using for updating?
[16:26] <SergioMeneses> s/why/what
[16:27] <njin> SergioMeneses, old school...edited /etc/apt/sources.list
[16:27] <njin> LOL
[16:27] <SergioMeneses> I see, it is the easy way
[16:28] <njin> and ever working
[16:29] <SergioMeneses> ;)
[16:29] <njin> I'm looking for balloons ! have you seen him around here, in the case ?
[16:30] <SergioMeneses> njin, maybe he is busy attending a call or something
[16:30] <njin> surely
[16:32] <njin> note for Balloons: I've installed the apps from the PPA, do you needs me to write down some testcase ?
[16:33] <njin> ballons: ^^
[16:34] <njin> I write down a big balloon
[16:34] <SergioMeneses> njin, do you want to help with testcases?
[16:36] <njin> SergioMeneses, i'm an admin ;-)
[16:36] <SergioMeneses> njin, so am I :)
[16:37] <SergioMeneses> njin, just take a bug and start to work on it ;) feel free
[16:38] <crhrabal> Saucy is pretty saucy so far. Did /etc/apt/source.list a couple days ago
[16:38] <crhrabal> Any news on a daily iso?
[16:39] <njin> crhbal, no new build till now
[16:40] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, there is not a daily iso yet
[16:40] <njin> ops crhrabal ^^
[16:41] <crhrabal> yeah i know there isnt one yet, just wondering if anyone knew of when they would start
[16:55] <balloons> njin, sorry I guess my responses didn't go to you
[16:56] <balloons> njin, yes please write some tests!
[16:56] <njin> balloons, hallo
[16:56] <njin> ok
[16:56] <balloons> check this out, let me grab the link
[16:56] <balloons> the stopwatch app developer is ready, and we can help out by getting a test up for him
[16:57] <balloons> look at ubuntu-touch.blogspot.com
[16:57] <njin> yes, I run it just few minutes ago, it works great
[16:57] <njin> ok, I tested the ubuntu-clock-app
[16:58] <balloons> njin let me send you something else too
[16:58] <balloons> the design team has a blog where the talk about the designs of the applications
[16:59] <balloons> this can help you ensure the test is covering everything
[16:59] <balloons> design.canonical.com/2013/03/app-patterns-applied-clock-key-journeys/
[16:59] <balloons> that for example is the link to the clock design
[17:00] <njin> yes, i'veused it without read nothing so i think that the gui is perfect
[17:00] <balloons> :-) Have a look and make sure you've got everything
[17:00] <njin> ok, thnaks
[17:00] <balloons> thanks njin.. all of the core apps in that ppa need test
[17:00] <njin> thanks
[17:00] <balloons> I have one i started for clock if you want to branch it
[17:00] <njin> still observing any news
[17:01] <njin> on first let my take confidence
[17:01] <balloons> lp:~nskaggs/+junk/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-touch
[17:01] <njin> bookmarked
[17:02] <balloons> that has a beginning for the calculator app
[17:02] <balloons> probably should file a bug or bugs on the project for the rest, and send a post to the mailing list again about them :-)
[17:02] <njin> ok
[17:02] <balloons> crhrabal, the builds should be up really soon
[17:03] <balloons> I had thought they were there yesterday
[17:03] <balloons> let me look
[17:04] <balloons> hmm.. might need one more day :-) Looks like some build troubles, but they were attempted yesterday :-)
[17:04] <crhrabal> balloons: yeah i saw that /current/  had builds from today for arm so i was disappointed to see the rest of the builds were raring final
[17:14] <njin> balloons, uca in ubuntu-calculator-app/uca-001 what mean ?
[17:23] <SergioMeneses> ok guys lunchtime here! see you
[17:29] <balloons> njin, it's simply a way to refer to the testcases
[17:29] <balloons> i picked the first 3 letters from ubuntu-calculator-app is all :[)
[18:46] <crhrabal> daily builds are up, happy testing :)
[19:01] <njin> goodnight everybody
[19:16] <crhrabal> yikes today's daily build did not boot for me :(
[21:11] <SergioMeneses> hi guys! Ubuntu Saucy is ready for downloading if you use TestDrive
[21:21] <crhrabal> SergioMeneses: Good luck, the iso didn't boot for me
[21:23] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, I'm downloading it right now, but my connection isnt good =/
[21:26] <SergioMeneses> crhrabal, this is a good time to report bugs ;)
[21:27] <crhrabal> yeah i informed some people about it but i didn't want to create a bug for it since  i don't believe this first build was built correctly
[21:27] <crhrabal> it's not necessarily a bug on saucy, as i'm running saucy right now with no problems
[21:29] <crhrabal> so im going to try the build after this, and if that also doesn't boot, then i will file a bug report
[21:39] <balloons> ahh yes.. the lovely first images
[21:39] <balloons> so much fun!
[21:40] <Noskcaj> first images? that's the fun bit. also, vote for me as xubuntu project lead
[21:42] <balloons> hello Noskcaj
[21:42] <Noskcaj> hey balloons
[21:43] <SergioMeneses> Noskcaj, I saw the poll ;)
[21:43] <SergioMeneses> balloons, testdrive has the new images! Saucy is here
[21:43] <balloons> Noskcaj, where is the poll?
[21:43] <balloons> SergioMeneses, :-)
[21:44] <Noskcaj> SergioMeneses, :)
[21:44] <Noskcaj> balloons, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/+poll/xubuntu-xpl-2013/+vote
[21:56] <SergioMeneses> Noskcaj, you're in the poll with Pasi!
[21:57] <Noskcaj> SergioMeneses, yes
[22:06] <SergioMeneses> balloons, Nice interview with Carla http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2013/05/people-behind-ubuntu-quality-carla.html
[22:14] <balloons> SergioMeneses, glad you liked it
[22:14] <SergioMeneses> it is awesome ;)
[22:23] <SergioMeneses> ok, I find an issue in the ubuntu-phone guide
[23:56] <phillw> balloons: when ever you get time, can you dig through your list of 'how tos' and email me the ones for bzr, thanks.