[01:59] <redtape> OT | Just realised that I am not missing anything on USA-TV then, Look at this bunch-o-balls :: http://getglue.com/stickers ,for some clue of what's on . Feel sorry for the popey-miester on his travels. (dunno if returned, or not).
[02:02] <redtape> bit random, but it's 3am and the clock too cantankerous to talk to. Nite 'all.
[07:52] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy World Press Freedom Day! :-D
[08:11] <MooDoo> lol JamesTait don't ever stop these, they do make me chuckle :D
[08:12] <JamesTait> MooDoo, glad to be of service. :)
[08:13] <JamesTait> MooDoo, a lot of them make me smirk as well. There's some absolute nonsense, really, but I think it's less boring than just "Good morning".
[08:15] <MooDoo> :)
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I thought World Press Freedom day was yesterday?
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - my bad.
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just saw some stuff about it on twitter yesterday
[08:25] <JamesTait> Disappointed that I won't be able to hail Star Wars Day this year.
[08:29] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:30] <BigRedS> I intend to punch anybody saying "May the fourth be with you" tomorrow
[08:30] <BigRedS> I might just not go out
[08:31] <MooDoo> you know it's going to happen
[08:31] <brobostigon> it was my dads birthday yesterday, so i bought him nice food and beer etc last night, i asked him this morning how he was, he said and i quote "i feel terrible, and i blame you." lol
[08:32] <MooDoo> lol
[08:32] <brobostigon> quite, yes.
[08:41] <diddledan_> when all else fails, pass the buck onto shauno
[08:42] <diddledan_> he loves it
[08:42] <brobostigon> or in my case, onto me.
[08:42] <diddledan_> nah, you sidestep and reblame shauno :-p
[08:42] <brobostigon> okies.
[08:50] <diddledan_> obviously if shauno fails, then it's all on canada
[08:50]  * diddledan_ sings
[08:50] <brobostigon> oh canada, etc. woopsie.
[08:56] <shrik> anyone know why my wireless would work in KDE but not in Unity?
[08:57] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[08:58] <bigcalm> So, who is working and who are playing Portal instead?
[08:58] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[08:58] <MooDoo> I'm working
[09:00] <bigcalm> I'm working as well :(
[09:00] <bigcalm> But steam is grabbing Portal at 7.5MB/s, so I don't know if I'll be working for much longer
[09:00] <brobostigon> my dad just asked me, what sky'd broadband and customer service is like, as he wants to switch from talktalk, i said to him, i dont know, any advice?
[09:01] <brobostigon> sky's*
[09:01] <shrik> sky is pretty good where i'm at
[09:01] <shrik> (west london)
[09:01] <bigcalm> shrik: the customer service?
[09:02] <shrik> yep, they're extremely helpful, and escalate to proper techs if the script doesn't work
[09:02] <shrik> (having said that, i'm just switching to plusnet as it saves about 8 quid a month)
[09:02] <brobostigon> ok, thank you shrik
[09:03] <shrik> also, I believe Sky is the only broadband provider that don't do traffic management
[09:03] <bigcalm> VirginMedia's service is great, it's their customer service that lets them down sadly
[09:04] <brobostigon> interesting,
[09:05] <shrik> np, brobostigon
[09:05] <shrik> why would my wireless work only in KDE and not in Unity..? bug in NetworkManager?
[09:06] <brobostigon> i do beleieve they both use different network management utilities.
[09:10] <BigRedS> they use different applets, but both use NM underneath
[09:12] <BigRedS> so, perhaps a bug in nm-applet (as used by Gnome & Unity)? What doesn't work shrik
[09:12] <brobostigon> ah
[09:12] <BigRedS> ?
[09:12] <shrik> the wireless networks are listed, but I'm unable to connect to any of them
[09:12] <shrik> (in Unity)
[09:12] <shrik> the /var/log/syslog output looks fine up to a point, when it just says "Authentication timed out"
[09:14] <BigRedS> ooh, odd
[09:14] <shrik> it was actually fine till last night, only was a problem today morning
[09:15] <shrik> and literally nothing changed (that I know of) since then
[09:15] <mungbean> why is my centos 6 server networking not coming up on boot? i have disabled ownership by networkmanager. when i do service network restart it comes up?
[09:16] <mungbean> (also system-config-network doesn't show the new style devices :( )
[09:17] <diddledan_> try chkconfig network on?
[09:21] <mungbean> bah, lost connection, gonna have to go over :(
[09:21] <mungbean> unless drac express gives me console?
[09:30] <shauno> diddledan_: didn't do it!
[09:39] <bigcalm> Do I really need more O'Reilly books?
[09:39] <mgdm> in eBook form, sure
[09:39] <mgdm> in dead tree? Probably not
[09:39] <bigcalm> 50% off today with the code DRM2013
[09:40] <mgdm> nice
[09:40] <mgdm> is that for any book or a specific section?
[09:40] <bigcalm> Yeah, I don't really get on with eBooks for technical material. I like to be able to flick back
[09:40] <bigcalm> Um
[09:41] <bigcalm> http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zo9ma1efg1oajrh0msu5gl8lpeuv9ds7k3s7jlk8?imm_mid=0a712a&cmp=em-npa-books-videos-day-against-drm2013-direct
[09:42] <bigcalm> lornajane's book is in there for instance. Might get that
[09:42] <mgdm> Yeah, that was what I was thinking
[09:42] <mgdm> I suppose if I get it on dead tree I can get it signed :-)
[09:42] <mgdm> GPG signing an ebook just isn't the same
[09:43] <bigcalm> :D
[09:49] <bigcalm> What else might be worth picking up? Git maybe?
[09:52] <mgdm> I've got a bunch of the JavaScript ones
[09:52] <mgdm> (The Good Parts, JavaScript Patterns, a couple more)
[09:55] <bigcalm> Already have JavaScript and AJAX definitive guides
[09:56] <mgdm> I'd recommend having a look at JS: The Good Parts
[09:58] <bigcalm> Righto
[10:02] <mgdm> While the Definitive Guide book tells you all about everything, TGP is more about good patterns and conventions to follow
[10:02] <mgdm> it's also quite short :)
[10:05] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:17] <bigcalm> Grrr. Laptop on 13.04 occasionally drops its wifi connection and the ap it was connected to disappears from the list. Other wifi devices remain connected though
[10:17] <bigcalm> I wonder if 13.04 is a coincidence and it's due to running a xbee wireless mesh network that's causing weirdness
[10:22] <mungbean> diddledan_: yes, network service was not on!!
[10:22] <mungbean> thanks , how strange
[10:26] <diddledan_> I think because they expect networkmanager to handle it instead
[10:29] <davmor2> morning all
[10:29] <bigcalm> No books on qml :(
[10:29] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:29] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:31] <mungbean> anyone tried redirecting console output to idrac express?
[10:43] <bigcalm> Grr
[10:43] <bigcalm> ^w does different things in different windows :)
[10:43] <diddledan_> you thought you were using nano?
[10:43] <mungbean> generally closes stuff dunnit?
[10:43] <BigRedS> ^-L in
[10:43] <BigRedS> er
[10:44] <BigRedS> ^L in Pidgin is the one that gets me
[10:44] <diddledan_> nano is the culprit for most of my ^w mistakes
[10:44] <mungbean> i get peeved if using unity and alt-E to switch to channel 13 in irrssi
[10:44] <BigRedS> I think I'm getting to firefox's address bar, but instead I clear the chat history that I didn't realise was focussed...
[10:50] <directhex> ^W is close tab in everything except nano
[10:50] <directhex> yay nano
[11:15] <BigRedS> It doesn't seem to do anything in the One True Editor
[11:16] <MooDoo> oooo watching the election results is exciting lol
[11:17] <brobostigon> lib-con backlash evidant.
[11:17] <MooDoo> too early where i am to tell, but yes i'm expecting that
[11:18] <brobostigon> :)
[11:19] <brobostigon> in the seat here, ;abour got it by atleast over 200 votes, over second , which is conservative.
[11:19] <MooDoo> labour gained one seat from the conservatives
[11:19] <funkyHat> ^W is also "delete a word", which leads to endless fun for me when I'm using a browser-based terminal emulator. ^W...aw crap I closed the tab again
[11:20] <brobostigon> 24% turnout, ohdear.
[11:21]  * funkyHat didn't know there were elections
[11:21] <brobostigon> exactly, thats why there was a such a low turnout.
[11:22] <brobostigon> no one seems to read the newspapers nor watch the news on the tv.
[11:24] <brobostigon> funkyHat: out of curiosity how old are you? as statistics show, you are more likely to be interested and vote if you are older.
[11:25] <funkyHat> brobostigon: 25
[11:25] <brobostigon> funkyHat: there you go, you are within the young disinterested bracket, being that age.
[11:26] <MooDoo> brobostigon: that explains why I voted lol
[11:26] <funkyHat> ⢁)
[11:26] <brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, maybe,
[11:26] <MooDoo> lol
[11:26] <funkyHat> I'm not totally disinterested. I would have made an effort if I'd known there were elections... I usually vote
[11:26] <funkyHat> Hm, maybe I forgot to register when I moved
[11:26] <brobostigon> but the facts are, more older people vote, generally, than the young,
[11:27] <shauno> I can't seem to get registered, which is a nuisance
[11:27] <brobostigon> funkyHat: ah, i see.
[11:33] <MooDoo> brobostigon: yum labour seems to be taking a few conservative seats
[11:33] <MooDoo> yup i meant
[11:33] <brobostigon> MooDoo: yes.
[11:44] <davmor2> so bigcalm how you getting on with raring?
[11:59] <diplo> Hi all
[11:59] <diplo> Any cups people here ?
[11:59] <diplo> Got a printer that will only print duplex
[11:59] <diplo> Can't work out how to disable via cli, any ideas ?
[12:00] <diplo> All online stuff is people wanting the opposite, both Canon printers
[12:22] <bigcalm> davmor2: it's on my laptop, but I haven't done much with it yet. There's an issue with wifi buggering off, but I think that might be my network
[12:22]  * bigcalm treats himself to a wee bit of Portal
[12:26] <Myrtti> new glasses today whee wheeeeeeeeee wheeee wheee
[12:26] <directhex> from google?
[12:26] <Myrtti> I haven't robbed anyone.
[12:26] <Myrtti> so no. from Tesco.
[12:29] <neuro> oh my $deity
[12:29] <neuro> today could be expensive
[12:29] <neuro> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/day-against-drm.do
[12:29] <neuro> 50% off all ora e-books
[12:39] <Myrtti> must not buy all Craft:
[12:42] <Myrtti> although I seem to already have most of them
[12:47] <czajkowski> hmmm skype is being an arse on raring
[12:47] <czajkowski> I make one call and it freezes
[12:48] <czajkowski> restart it and it's fine
[12:48] <czajkowski> most annoying
[12:49] <neuro> Cart Subtotal $69.59
[12:49] <neuro> squeeee
[12:51] <Myrtti> czajkowski: that's considerably better than some of the apps I've got on my Debian Wheezy. Keepass2 crashes silently to a state where nothing else helps than relogging into session.
[12:53] <czajkowski> Myrtti: just annoying as I've to use it on my phone for reliability
[12:54] <Myrtti> I had to install Skype on Wednesday because my sister uses it still
[12:54] <neuro> see, this is why I use a Mac ;)
[12:54] <czajkowski> yeah I talk to my folks back on it
[12:55]  * neuro awaits the inevitable slappage
[12:55] <Myrtti> *crickets*
[12:55] <neuro> no slappage? woot!
[12:57] <neuro> having to deal with hassles as you mention outweighs, *for me* personally, the benefits of a fully open source desktop, unfortunately
[12:57] <neuro> but i appreciate things are getting better
[12:58] <Daviey> neuro: As long as you are not implying that Mac is hassle free :)
[12:58] <neuro> jeez, not at all
[12:58] <BigRedS> neuro: I maintain that it's an inevitable path
[12:58] <BigRedS> certainly for sysadmins
[12:58] <neuro> just that for me, it's less hassle than ubuntu desktop
[12:58] <neuro> BigRedS: i can't sing the praises of Server enough
[12:59] <neuro> i don't deploy anything else these days
[12:59] <Daviey> neuro: Ubuntu Server?
[12:59] <neuro> and it was a nice surprise to see the quantal kernel in 12.04.2 when installing fresh :)
[12:59] <neuro> Daviey: course!
[12:59] <BigRedS> you start off all enthusiastic and build you own kernels and write your own DE. Then you move to Slack or Gentoo, then to Arch or something, then Debian, then Ubuntu or Fedora and finally you go "sack it, I'll get something that's finished" and buy a mac
[12:59] <neuro> EXACTLY
[12:59] <neuro> :D
[12:59] <Daviey> neuro: I just pee'd a little.  Care to write a blog post about what you do with it?
[12:59] <czajkowski> and in BigRedS case he has an issue with online services and breaks things :p
[12:59] <neuro> Daviey: um
[13:00] <BigRedS> czajkowski: *I* didn't break them :)
[13:00] <neuro> haha
[13:00] <czajkowski> BigRedS: I think you'll find you did :)
[13:00] <neuro> Daviey: i'm not doing much exciting at the moment
[13:00] <BigRedS> It all seems to work in Debian :)
[13:00] <neuro> infra for my house and my folks file storage, and currently replacing win+centos with 12.04.2 for work
[13:01] <neuro> the latter being a paaaaaaaaaaaain
[13:01] <neuro> batch scripts for the lose
[13:02] <Daviey> neuro: I'd like to read about your work stuff FWIW.  How well we do (or not) to replace other options.
[13:02] <neuro> both me and my boss like it
 :)
[13:03]  * mgdm hopes to sack CentOS in favour of Ubuntu Server some time soon
[13:03] <Daviey> mgdm: Do write about it. :)
[13:03] <neuro> Daviey: i'm only 3.5wks into the job, not sure how appropriate it really is for me to start waffling about it
[13:04] <neuro> especially when time spent waffling at length about it is time spent not working or resting :)
[13:04] <Daviey> neuro: fair point.  I didn't know you switched gigs.
[13:04] <neuro> switched gigs for funemployment about 10 months ago
[13:05] <neuro> signed on at the end of march and then lo and behold a wild job appeared
[13:06] <mungbean> know anyone else out of work atm looking for job?
[13:06] <neuro> me? no
[13:06] <neuro> well, not in the uk
[13:06] <MooDoo> not out of work lol
[13:06] <neuro> :)
[13:07] <Daviey> mungbean: I think most people here would consider for the right £lol.amount. :)
[13:07] <neuro> although in saying that, if anyone groks php dev and lives near oxford, there might, *might* be a gig at my new place
[13:08] <mungbean> yeah Daviey i wouldn't say its big bucks or worth leaving somewhere for
[13:08] <neuro> we lost a contractor last week, he came up for renewal and got a better paying gig in nodnol
[13:08] <directhex> for enough money i'd work in nodnol
[13:08] <mungbean> how much directhex
[13:09] <mungbean> i currently work in the wasteland beyonf the city wall, but used to work in nodnol for 35% more ££
[13:09] <mungbean> decamped to spawn twice
[13:09] <directhex> given the hassle of commuting... i'd be expecting closer to 80% more
[13:09] <directhex> which ins't unreasonable if i started working in finance
[13:10]  * neuro hugs his telecommute job
[13:10]  * mungbean glares
[13:10] <directhex> i work from home 4 days a week
[13:10]  * mungbean glares at everybody
[13:10] <Daviey> I feel like i work from home 8 days a week.
[13:10] <neuro> I'M IN MY PYJAMAS LOL
[13:10] <neuro> kidding
[13:10] <mgdm> No pyjamas?
[13:10]  * mgdm shudders
[13:10] <mungbean> however i did just go to pub for lunch in the sunshien
[13:11] <neuro> fully clothed, my friend, fully clothed
[13:11] <mungbean> doesn't make up for sharing an office and toilet with 40 animals
[13:11]  * Daviey pictures neuro half naked, on his computer.  irccop.jpg style
[13:11] <neuro> NOOOOOOOO!
[13:11] <directhex> i've worked naked before.
[13:11] <neuro> stop
[13:11] <directhex> depends on the day
[13:11] <neuro> just stop
[13:11] <directhex> today i need to take the boy back to the hospital, so clothes will be needed
[13:11] <mgdm> the thought of neuro half naked is making even neuro wince...
[13:11] <bigcalm> Ha
[13:12] <neuro> ##ifeelthebreezeofmypsufansovermygentlemansarea is over that way ->
[13:12] <Daviey> ew.
[13:12] <neuro> oh by the way
[13:12] <neuro> non-ubuntu thing:
[13:13] <mungbean> lost my hayfever pills
[13:13] <neuro> Jeff Hanneman has died
[13:13] <mgdm> I dunno, my laptop has no fan.
[13:13] <mungbean> who?
[13:13] <neuro> so you must all be listening to Slayer a lot today
[13:13] <mgdm> I never got into Slayer
[13:13] <neuro> mungbean: founding member of Slayer
[13:13] <mungbean> God killed him for all the devil music?
[13:13] <neuro> another benefit of working from home
[13:14] <neuro> macbook pro + itunes + 28" apple display + slayer + volume up button pressed many many times
[13:14] <mungbean> some jerk wearing a jumper has just turned off the ac
[13:14] <neuro> and i can be a total idiot and airplay it simultaneously to my surround system in the lounge and hassle my neighbours
[13:15] <mgdm> my weekend project is to make my Raspberry Pi be an airplay endpoint
[13:15] <neuro> noice
[13:15] <mgdm> it was last weekend's, but stuff
[13:15] <neuro> stuff wins
[13:15] <mgdm> not in this case :)
[13:16]  * neuro tickles ec2
[13:17] <mgdm> neuro: what's your current gig again?
[13:18] <neuro> Senior Systems Engineer at www.angloinfo.com
[13:18] <mgdm> ah ha
[13:20] <BigRedS> Whoever it was I was ranting to about a /var-on-separate-volume bug, it was 525154
[13:22] <neuro> wheee
[13:22] <neuro> i gave up mounting usr and var on separate partitions years ago
[13:23] <mgdm> I put /var on one, never really bothered with /usr though
[13:23] <neuro>  /usr/share can get pretty gnarly if you install particular packages with lots of docs or support files
[13:23] <neuro> but it's not worth the hassle imho
[13:23] <neuro> and i don't like race conditions :)
[13:24] <BigRedS>  /var and /home in lvs is our default server install
[13:25] <BigRedS> but, yeah, that was what got us talking about dropping ubuntu for centos
[13:25] <neuro> i always put /home on another partition, or another disk if possible
[13:26] <neuro> in fact i move it to /data/home
[13:26] <neuro> i always do that now, have additional disks and the like mounted under /data
[13:26] <BigRedS> why?
[13:26] <neuro> makes it easier in my head to manage
[13:26] <BigRedS> that reminds me of windows drive letters...
[13:27] <BigRedS> one of the things an OS is supposed to do is be an abstraction layer above the hardware. IMO that involves not forcing me to care about how many disks are there and where they're used
[13:27] <neuro> well, i don't care once i've mounted them
[13:27] <neuro> then i just care about the data underneath
[13:28] <BigRedS> if you don't care that it's on a separate disk, why put it under /data?
[13:28] <neuro> because it's where my data lives
[13:29] <BigRedS> well, your home dir
[13:29] <neuro> no, i mean everything
[13:30] <BigRedS> mv / /data ?
[13:30] <neuro> tch
[13:30] <neuro> *all* *my* *data* :)
[13:30] <neuro> http://pastebin.com/BjwdXAH7
[13:31] <BigRedS> ew
[13:31] <neuro> yeah, probably
[13:31] <BigRedS> I've a far higher opinion of some of the servers I look after now :)
[13:31] <neuro> ha!
[13:31] <BigRedS> still, if I don't have to use it, I can't really claim to care too much :)
[13:32] <BigRedS> I've been getting annoyed recently that when mysql gets its own volume, everyone here seems to feel the need to mount it at /mysql and change its data_dir for no apparent benefit
[13:32] <neuro> isn't that the point though?
[13:33] <BigRedS> the point of what?
[13:34] <neuro> punting the data to another storage location
[13:34] <BigRedS> no, the point is to get it on its own volume
[13:34] <BigRedS> and there's no reason to not mount that volume at /var/lib/mysql and stop surprising everyone
[13:34] <neuro> oh, you're mounting on top of /var/lib/mysql
[13:34] <BigRedS> well, I'm advocating that
[13:34] <neuro> totally valid
[13:34] <BigRedS> but everyone else just mounts at /mysql
[13:35] <neuro> i'd do /data/mysql ;)
[13:35] <BigRedS> so I ls /var/lib/mysql/ see nothing and wonder what's happened...
[13:35] <BigRedS> yeah, you would! :)
[13:35] <neuro> ha!
[13:35] <diddledan_> I would follow convention as far as possible - if mysql usually lives under /var/lib then that's where I'd mount any volume that is supposed to house it
[13:36] <BigRedS> yeah, exactly. There's is an attempted filesystem hierarchy standard, and it seems a bit sensible to stay close to it
[13:36] <diddledan_> I agree with BigRedS on this. changing locations for no benefit is pointless
[13:36] <neuro> well convention is one thing, but as long as any production changes made are fully documented, then in theory the mysql data could live anywhere
[13:36] <BigRedS> neuro: it *could*. But there's no benefit, and there's a loss in thaat you now have an additional thing that you need to document
[13:36] <diddledan_> yes, it _can_ live anywhere, but everyone expects it in /var/lib/mysql
[13:37] <BigRedS> it's like switchign the keymap on a server to azerty just because, and noting that down somewhere
[13:37] <BigRedS> documentation is good, but not needing it is better
[13:37] <diddledan_> please, if you do that, give me a graphic of the keylayout! :-p
[13:38] <diddledan_> it's a good way to avoid shoulder password watchers however
[13:38] <neuro> i'm not getting drawn any more into this argument this close to beer o'clock on a friday :D
[13:42] <shauno> I love bind mounts for that kinda mess
[13:43] <MooDoo> neuro: well your no fun i was about to start an ubuntu sucks argument ;)
[13:43] <BigRedS> shauno: creating it or resolving it? :)
[13:43] <shauno> BigRedS: yes :)
[13:43] <BigRedS> haha
[13:44] <shauno> move mysql onto the array, and then bind-mount it to /var/lib.  so the files are where I want them, and they're accessible where they're expected
[13:44] <diddledan_> or jsut symlink
[13:44] <diddledan_> I have spaghetti symlinks all over the shop
[13:45] <diddledan_> I <3 symlinks!
[13:59] <neuro> hardlinks are cooler
[14:04] <shauno> hardlinks don't traverse physical, which I thought was the topic
[14:06] <BigRedS> no, but I guess you could hardlink to the mountpoint
[14:07] <directhex> they traverse the *metaphysical*. which is even better
[14:07] <BigRedS> I've already typed the '-s' before I'm aware of having typed the 'ln' so it's always a moot point for me. Every link is symbolic
[15:42] <popey> morning
[15:43] <MooDoo> morning alan
[15:50] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[15:54] <Seeker`> woo, think I'm going to SIGGRAPH
[16:04] <diddledan_> Gentoo for servers is not fun
[16:05] <diddledan_> or rather it's fun, but tedious
[16:05] <diddledan_> you're constantly battling against the elements to get anything done, especially on systems as outdated as my workplace ones are
[16:06] <neuro> been there, got the brain embolism
[16:06] <diddledan_> I've got 40 machines to go through fixing stuff before we can even consider ensuring they're security patched
[16:06] <neuro> :(
[16:06] <funkyHat> 40 gentoo boxes?
[16:07] <neuro> are you having to hand hack stuff individually or can you automate it a bit?
[16:07] <neuro> (dsh is your friend)
[16:07] <diddledan_> well 10 boxes, and 30 VMs
[16:08] <diddledan_> unfortunately because they're all so unaligned with each other in terms of what's installed etc I'm having to do it individually
[16:08] <diddledan_> they _should_ be fairly uniform, but they're not
[16:09] <neuro> :(
[16:10] <neuro> i've been there before, albeit with about 10 servers and a slew of workstations; i feel your pain, sir
[16:24] <redtape> OT | GAME News | Looks like after the steam portal announcement, "The 39 Steps" is in the works , a linux game actually about London (finally !) ::::::: http://news.softpedia.com/news/quot-The-39-Steps-quot-Unique-Game-Will-Combine-Film-and-Literature-349091.shtml   ::
[16:28] <popey> aquarius: good trip home
[16:30] <diddledan_> I'm off home, toodles
[16:35] <kvarley> Does anybody here own L4D2 on Steam?
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> \o
[16:36] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Has the linux beta gone live yet?
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> checking
[16:36] <kvarley> Was meant to be  this week
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> no
[16:36] <kvarley> :(
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> POrtal 1 is though
[16:36] <kvarley> Think they may have had setbacks and released that instead then
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> Portal 1 on intel graphics = all textures are grey black/white and very grainy :)
[16:38] <kvarley> heh
[16:38] <kvarley> It's only a beta tho remember
[16:38] <kvarley> I'm just itching to get my hands on L4D2 and CS:Go
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> sure, and I have a shitty old intel cpu/gpu :)
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> I can installa CS:S
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> what is CS:Go?
[16:43] <kvarley> CounterStrike: Global Offensive
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> I hope the current set of games will run on Haswell
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> (so buying a new CPU next month will be worth it ;)))
[18:07] <brobostigon> john paul jones, is drumming with seasick steve on jools holland later, cool
[18:08] <brobostigon> not drumming, scrub that.
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> just.. slacking around then? :)
[18:15] <brobostigon> lol :)
[18:18] <brobostigon> i had john bonham's son, jason bonham in my mind.
[18:19] <shauno> john paul jones is an odd name, I know it from US independence era
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> shauno: when you were just a lad? ;)
[18:19] <shauno> lol.  actually, that's close to the truth.  I know most my US history from Sid Meyer's Civilization
[18:19] <shauno> no, Colonization
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> hah, not Colonization?
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> ah :)
[18:20] <shauno> else I wouldn't have prefixed with his name, because everyone remembers civ
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> I still have colonization on cd-rom here somewhere
[18:21] <shauno> I have it on three 770k floppies :/
[18:21] <dwatkins> civ was great
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I think that's what's on the CD.. floppy images or similar
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> shauno: + an installer
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: colonization kind of glossed over slavery a little bit
[18:22]  * brobostigon waves prince of persia floppies around.
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> (it didn't mention it at all)
[18:22] <shauno> iirc the dos version you could mush the floppies together just by putting the contents in the same folder
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> ooh! I still have my dosbox dir with it installed!
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> *starts*
[18:23] <brobostigon> :)
[18:23] <shauno> I have the amiga version, which is vastly superior, but I can't remember why anymore
[18:25] <diddledan> ergh, why am I playing with kernel stuff?!
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "diddling with the kernel"
[18:26] <diddledan> I need to figure out where it's searching for war.h when compiling for mips in the openwrt tree because.. it says it can't find it when clearly it's blind
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: which branch of openwrt, and which target?
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: use "make V=99" for verbosity .. it should show compiler output, which should help a lot
[18:27] <diddledan> aah, well that's the thing - it's a custom target for mikrotik's "metarouter" which I have bastardised an old patch for linux-2.6.smth onto linux-3.7
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> also, which package
[18:27] <diddledan> as for branch
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> still, V=99 should do things
[18:28] <diddledan> looks like it's trunk from a couple weeks ago
[18:29] <diddledan> and package - it's linux itself
[18:29] <diddledan> the kernel
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> cool :)
[18:30] <diddledan> looks like the make v=99 doesn't help for the kernel compile
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> capital V
[18:30] <diddledan> yeah, that too :-p
[18:31] <diddledan> openwrt have their own makefile layer on top of the kernel makefiles
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> I know.. but usually this works
[18:32] <diddledan> let me pastebin the output
[18:36] <diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5629956/
[18:36] <diddledan> I'm not sure why it asks me for the system type every time, but that's bearable
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> wow.. in bounds.s
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> that's asm
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: what happens if you move the stuff in build_dir aside, and restart the entire compile?
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it should rebuild the toolchain
[18:38] <diddledan> exactly the same error
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> that's quick
[18:39] <diddledan> I thought so too
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> rebuilding the toolchain (gcc etc.) should take a while..
[18:39] <diddledan> it can't have rebuild the toolchain in that time
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> maybe that's in staging_dir/
[18:39] <diddledan> aah, yes, there's a toolchain in staging_dir
[18:40] <diddledan> I'll blow away both for now and rerun from scratch
[18:42] <diddledan> the kernel is very much a dark art for me
[18:42] <diddledan> I know nussing
[18:42] <diddledan> </bad italian>
[18:43] <diddledan> I think the metarouter patch that mikrotik produced is from kamikaze?!
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> that's _old_
[18:43] <diddledan> hence it's need to be updated
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> what's metarouter anyway?
[18:43] <diddledan> nobody still have packages for it
[18:43] <diddledan> metarouter is a proprietary virtualisation that runs on mikrotik's routeros
[18:44] <diddledan> I say proprietary - the kernel is gpl so they might have published their sources?
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> it's a "special" one then?
[18:45] <diddledan> their website is evil
[18:45] <diddledan> yeah
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> yeah.. routeros itself seems OK though
[18:45] <diddledan> it doesn't conform to the qemu-style I don't believe
[18:45] <diddledan> i.e. kvm and xen
[18:48] <diddledan> looks like the company were gpl violators in 2009
[18:48] <diddledan> I can't find much more recent about gpl vs mikrotik tho
[18:58] <diddledan> compile is still running
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> yeah it's recompiling the whole toolchain (gcc, etc.)
[19:07] <diddledan> random: why do I feel the need for at least three monitors? surely my dual head system should be enough, right?!
[19:07] <diddledan> I need MOAR
[19:08] <diddledan> I totally want three 24inchers
[19:08] <diddledan> I totally can't afford to tho
[19:09] <diddledan> and I totally sound chav by using "totally" in this manner
[19:09] <diddledan> ho hum
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> like, totally
[19:10] <diddledan> init guv
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> u wot m8
[19:10] <diddledan> sorry, sysvinit :-p
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-wot-m8 (maybe not safe for anyone)
[19:22] <DJones> Aww, Jeff Hanneman has passed away
[19:39] <diddledan> ok, it got to the end of the compile - same error as before
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I don't know then, sorry
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> other than "google it"
[19:41] <diddledan> /home/dllewellyn/openwrt-trunk/build_dir/target-mips_uClibc-0.9.33.2/linux-mr-mips/linux-3.7/arch/mips/include/asm/war.h:12:17: fatal error: war.h: No such file or directory
[19:41] <diddledan> the first war.h exists
[19:41] <diddledan> the second is referenced by an #include <war.h> line
[19:41] <diddledan> inside the first
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> that's how it should work
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> but the -I should be set properly
[19:46] <diddledan> I can't seem to get it to print the commandline it uses at all using V=99
[19:53] <diddledan> there's a line in arch/mips/Makefile that says:
[19:53] <diddledan> cflags-$(CONFIG_METAROUTER) += -I$(srctree)/arch/mips/include/asm/mach-metarouter
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> does that dir exist?
[19:54] <diddledan> yes, and there's a war.h in there
[20:05] <diddledan> I think the patch didn't apply cleanly
[20:05] <diddledan> it looks like the metarouter bits are in the wrong place in that makefile
[20:07] <diddledan> maybe not, I'm not good at reading makefiles
[20:19] <czajkowski> Laney: is there an ubuntu design mailing list ?
[20:24] <Laney> czajkowski: there's a unity-design one on launchpad
[20:24] <Laney> that's all i know about
[20:25] <czajkowski> we foud mpt
[20:25] <czajkowski> all is good
[20:26] <Laney> so is there one?
[20:34] <diddledan> ok, I've got make outputting verbosely now
[20:35] <diddledan> it looks to NOT be including the extra -I argument for the war.h directory
[20:38] <diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630318/
[20:39] <diddledan> eww @ no linewrapping
[20:41] <AlanBell> pro tip http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630318/plain/
[20:42] <AlanBell> (with launchpad login for some reason)
[20:43] <Laney> yeah ubuntu pastebin misfeature
[21:04] <mungbean> evening
[21:16] <diddledan> omg it's building!!!
[21:16] <diddledan> and another failure
[21:16] <diddledan> this time symtab.h is missing
[21:19] <diddledan> find says it's at ./security/selinux/ss/symtab.h
[21:20] <diddledan> no mention of selinux at all in my .config
[21:24] <mungbean> wow i never have build iissues anymore
[21:24] <mungbean> since 21st century
[21:24] <diddledan> yeah, I'm playing with openwrt
[21:25] <diddledan> trying to build it on an unsupported platform
[21:25] <diddledan> for**
[21:25] <diddledan> using a patch that's like 5 years out of date
[21:27] <diddledan> the patch is against kernel 2.6.31.10 - the latest in openwrt's trunk is 3.7
[21:31] <shauno> some things never change .. you really don't like yourself, do you :p
[21:31] <diddledan> shauno, just because I'm playing with Gentoo, also :-p
[21:32] <diddledan> Gentoo's work, however, this is personal
[21:32] <shauno> friday night and I'm trying to convert a pre-built vmware appliance to something kvm can boot.  so self-flagellation all 'round I guess
[21:33] <diddledan> :-p
[21:33] <diddledan> yes, we all suck
[21:33] <diddledan> obviously I'm not quite as sucky as everyone else
[21:33] <mungbean> watching another manlab as i cant move off sofa
[21:33] <diddledan> mostly becauase I'm me
[21:35] <diddledan> google's never heard of symtab.h
[21:54] <diddledan> I seem to be making progress
[21:54] <mungbean> guys: https://github.com/Athou/commafeed
[21:59] <diddledan> OMG, THE KERNEL COMPILED!!!
[21:59] <diddledan> I amaze myself at my own awesomeness
[22:00] <mungbean> \p/
[22:01] <diddledan> I'm so glad doctors aren't like IRC clients.. having an operation time out when you're the patient doesn't sound fun
[22:02]  * mgdm was writing C but didn't manage to make it segfault
[22:02] <mgdm> I call that a  win
[22:03] <diddledan> mgdm, that's impressive
[22:04] <diddledan> writing C that compiles is good. writing C that compiles AND doesn't segfault is amazing
[22:05] <mgdm> hehe
[22:05] <mgdm> also, it actually works
[22:06]  * diddledan bows before God
[22:06]  * AlanBell is compiling c++ stuffs
[22:06] <diddledan> erm.. s/God/mgdm/
[22:08] <mgdm> heheh
[22:16] <AlanBell> woot it built and installs and runs
[22:16] <AlanBell> just added some extra logging to wvdial, hardly rocket science, but it all worked first time
[22:19] <shauno> holy blast from the past batman
[22:37] <diddledan> shauno, what's in the vmware image you're trying to run?
[22:38] <shauno> in-house 'appliance'
[22:38] <diddledan> aah
[22:38] <shauno> centos 6.3 underlying though
[22:39] <diddledan> it should be as simple as running it through qemu-img then?
[22:39] <diddledan> although, latter kvm - such as in 13.04 as far as I've tested support booting directly from vmdks
[22:39] <shauno> sort of.  that's got me bootable.  playing nice with openstack/ec2 requires a few more refinements
[22:40] <diddledan> ergh
[22:40] <diddledan> openstack is evil
[22:40] <diddledan> great when it's running, but getting it there is a horror film
[22:47] <shauno> I've got it going as far as I need it, for now  (I need to investigate Quantum later though, because I need more tricks on the network front)
[22:50] <shauno> crash course in yum, I haven't used anything redhat based since RH5.2
[22:51] <diddledan> lol
[22:51] <diddledan> my knowledge of yum extends to `yum search foo` and `yum install foo`
[22:51] <diddledan> oh and `yum update`
[22:51] <shauno> heh, pretty much.  except it's not finding any repos
[22:51] <diddledan> gah
[22:51] <diddledan> /etc/yum.d?
[22:52] <diddledan> there should be a repo.conf or similar name
[22:52] <diddledan> maybe repos.conf?
[22:53] <diddledan> or reponame.repo?
[22:53] <shauno> yeah, I'm getting there :)  I found some suspicious looking enabled=0 lines in the entries in /etc/yum.repos.d/
[22:58] <mungbean> you can also enable one-yime
[22:58] <diddledan> new error - much further in the compile tho - kernel related again: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630639/
[22:58] <mungbean> yum --enablerepo=extras install gedit
[22:59] <diddledan> line 5 is the actual error
[22:59] <mungbean> yum provides is useful
[23:00] <mungbean> diddledan: you are goinf down a rabbithole od doom
[23:00] <mungbean> farage looks like a simpsons cgaracter
[23:04] <diddledan> just remembered to put the washing on - hopefully my neighbours won't mind the spin cycle at 1am
[23:05] <shauno> oh yes.  this is the rpm I know and love from 1997.        libyaml-0.so.2()(64bit) is needed by PyYAML-3.10-3.el6.x86_64
[23:07] <diddledan> who was first with packages, redhat or debian?
[23:07] <diddledan> that weren't just tarballs, I mean
[23:08] <diddledan> 'cos slackware would beat everyone if we were counting those
[23:08] <diddledan> afaik slack is the oldest still running distro available
[23:09] <shauno> ohhhh.  fantastic.  they have yaml for i686 but not x86_64
[23:09] <diddledan> o_O
[23:09] <diddledan> how did they compile pyYAML then?!
[23:11] <shauno> pretty sure I'm doing something wrong here
[23:11] <shauno> besides keep typing rm -i instead of rpm -i
[23:13] <mungbean> do yum localinstall
[23:13] <mungbean> since it piulls in deps
[23:15] <shauno> it's not finding most these packages so far, which is why I've been trying to add them manually
[23:17] <shauno> it's easy enough just to faceplant it a few times, I'll be starting over once I've figured out what I need where
[23:18] <shauno> the first run is to get it working, the second is to add a little grace to the proceedings so I don't grow the qcow image any more than I need to
[23:41] <redtape> shauno: still hammering ?
[23:41] <shauno> eh.  I'll keep pushing the gas as long as you keep screaming
[23:42] <redtape> yep, it's pretty late .. I have to set up a new netbook tomorrow ..
[23:42] <diddledan> that's what a mustachiod bloke said in the 40s
[23:42] <shauno> :(
[23:42] <shauno> pushing the petrol just doesn't seem to work.
[23:42] <redtape> any-howser ...
[23:43] <diddledan> accelerator?
[23:43] <redtape> I'm deep in bootstrap territory .. anyone used it before ?
[23:43] <diddledan> I need to do some of that, too
[23:43] <shauno> the webby stuff?
[23:46] <redtape> not sure 'boutthat .. not without the monster jar of coffe that keeps seducing me .. saw this vidz , but really want to get to know the program 'bootstrap' more  | OT | :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKwWPQ1Orzs :: BTWay.
[23:47] <redtape> **about that  .
[23:48] <redtape> shauno: See the vidz ? Prob.ly best for Caturday-afternoon thou .
[23:51] <shauno> I can't tell if it's the hour, but I'm oddly distracted by trying to figure out if that 'tache+glasses combo is a $2 disguise set :/
[23:55] <diddledan> spin cycle just kicked in
[23:57] <diddledan> sorry people next-door :-p