[01:56] apachelogger: That's not news. [02:03] Riddell: Debian released and I published the news on kubuntu.org. [03:23] hey guys/gals [03:29] apachelogger: Got an actual apport report now for my kdepim-runtime crash: Bug #1176464 [03:29] Error: Launchpad bug 1176464 could not be found [03:30] (I left it private for the moment, but sucbribed you to it) [03:46] hey ScottK did you see the wiki for Kubuntu Docs? [03:47] ahoneybun: I have not. I've been driving all day picking one of my daughters up from college. Just got home and am a bit tired for any thinking. [03:48] oh ok full load [03:49] I want to say it is about half done [03:57] can I get what you think about it? [04:10] valorie: are you there? [04:23] I am [04:24] currently eating a snack, but will be with you shortly [04:24] you got my notes to you after you went to sleep last night, right? [04:28] no I saw that you changed somethings but did not see what [04:29] read the backlog here [04:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [04:32] upload images to the wiki, 1. Kubuntu 2. KDE 3. Linux ? [04:34] yup [04:34] the problem with having your images elsewhere, is what happens when that site is down, or the links change? [04:36] I know, I'm looking into it now [04:36] I fixed the link that was spelled wrong [04:37] hmmm, me too [04:37] not sure why it didn't stay fixed [04:37] I was logged in, etc. [04:37] It took for me though [04:38] * valorie bows before ahoneybun's superior wiki power [04:39] lol I just got lucky [04:39] sadly I can only upload one thing at a time... [04:41] this is bizarre [04:41] ? [04:41] that link still shows broken for me [04:41] even after control reload [04:42] what link [04:43] #2 link at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [04:43] About Kubuntu [04:44] page does not exist [04:45] look at the link [04:45] it's misspelled [04:45] but I've fixed it three times [04:45] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtai/About [04:45] now I see! [04:47] bizarre, eh? [04:48] I fixed it [04:48] yay! [04:48] but what happened to the top image? [04:49] now it's enormous [04:49] wrong one, fixed [04:50] nice [04:50] yep that one on the main page /KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail is on the wiki [04:53] good deal [04:54] I'm setting up again to deal with docs from launchpad, because I want to read the xubuntu docs [04:54] and since this is a fresh install, I had lost my ssh setup, keypair and such [04:55] deal with? [04:55] I had a copy of the kubuntu docs before, so I could edit them [04:56] not sure if any of my edits ever made it in, but I did email them to darkwing and jjesse [04:57] I want to push my changes into my own branch [04:57] cool [04:57] I have no clue how to do that [04:58] but I'm working through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/SystemDocumentation again [04:58] I was looking into it [04:58] sweet, are people still using docbook? [04:59] all KDE documentation is in docbook [04:59] it's just xml [04:59] just so you know the Basic page uses all images from the wiki now, no external links [04:59] super! [05:00] yep [05:00] these pages are going to be long [05:01] well [05:01] maybe we should have a tl;dr summary at the top of each page [05:01] so people can see if they want it or not [05:01] I was thinking that, like the archlinux wiki [05:02] the archlinux wiki starts out sort of ok [05:03] then descends quickly into madness [05:03] but yeah, the beginning is worth looking at [05:03] I want ours FRIENDLY [05:03] I wanted to have subsections in the table of contents [05:03] arch to me is not so friendly [05:03] like 3. The Basics [05:03] then [05:04] then A. Desktop Customization [05:04] B. Something [05:04] C. Linux [05:05] or 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 [05:05] yea thats better [05:05] one caution: if the ToC gets too long, people click away [05:06] have you looked at userbase on kde.org at all? [05:06] no, I don't know how to link to stuff in the page yet I was looking into it [05:08] i wrote the amarok handbook there, with the assistance of the old amarok wiki, and lots of GCi students [05:08] I'm going to look at that page your working on [05:08] I'm working on a page? [05:08] oh, the system doc page [05:08] working *through* the page [05:08] not editing it [05:08] just to be clear [05:09] nope not touching it just looking === jono is now known as Guest55286 [05:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [05:15] that ToC is going to get big [05:21] well, it might be better than to have a short one, and some sentences below with the link again [05:22] like: [The Basics] covers customizing your desktop, something, and the linux filesystem. [05:22] so you have a little para summing it up, instead of a big-ass ToC [05:24] well I am not using a heading for everything right now to lower it [05:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [05:31] looks good, but I think those images should be smaller [05:31] like: half the size [05:32] consider that some people will be reading on phones and /or tablets [05:33] I was looking into using thumbnails [05:33] those are great when someone might need to expand the image [05:33] these are so simple I don't think that is necessary [05:34] shrinking them will make the page load more quickly as well [05:34] so they aren't just displayed smaller, but ARE smaller [05:35] so thats a good idea? [05:39] what's a good idea? [05:40] using thumbnails is great when people will need to make the images bigger to see necessary detail [05:40] like involved menus [05:40] the thumbnail [05:40] otherwise, just smaller images are better [05:40] not tiny [05:40] just smaller [05:40] refresh [05:41] look at userbase to see how people do it there [05:41] awesome [05:42] what my changes? [05:42] the dir images could use a thumbnail [05:42] because some people will want to see detail [05:42] yes, the smaller images look great [05:43] I used thumbnails on those ;) [05:49] cool [05:51] ok refresg [05:51] refresh [05:53] yeah, baby [05:53] those are readable to me as thumbnails already [05:53] excellent work! [05:53] launchpad still hasn't responded to my new key though [05:53] pfff [05:54] thanks! and that is my last edit [05:54] no more for now [05:54] cool [05:55] I'll try to finish working through that page, and get the xubuntu docs [05:55] stealing is always good [05:56] damn, launchpad is so much complicated than kde identity [05:58] I can't get into my kde identify lol lost the info [05:58] ask the sysadmins [05:58] they are awesome indeed [05:59] it almost certainly will be your surname [05:59] but #kde-sysadmin knows all, sees all [06:01] well it says it will email it to me but I never get it [06:01] dead email account, maybe? [06:02] they can check [06:02] awhile ago they made everyone with weak passwords reset them [06:02] ok then I got it kinda I just don't understand the two-factor thing [06:03] Please enter the token from position 'H1' [06:03] one of the sysadmins did a weak pass to break passwords [06:03] and all those that failed had to reset [06:03] mine failed [06:03] lol [06:03] woah [06:03] I've never seen that [06:05] yea [06:05] they will help though [06:07] ok [06:07] :-) [06:09] "that means your account has two factor auth enabled" [06:10] So I think the wiki is going well [06:10] me too [06:10] yes, I'm in that chan [06:15] I'm going to bed now [06:17] can I post our work on G+? [06:20] valorie: can I post our work on G+? [06:21] sure! [06:21] cool [06:21] the more help or even criticisms, the better [06:23] https://plus.google.com/110525358571541799848/posts/294SmUFDtDU [06:25] I need help to finish this [06:25] we do [06:25] ok, I'm going to do some editing now [06:25] on the text [06:26] I do the layout, you check and give ideas? [06:27] I can write, too [06:28] but lets steal all we can first [06:28] :-) [06:28] it's easier to get from over half to fully done [06:28] than write the whole thing from scratch [06:31] I know lol anyway good night [06:31] niters [06:32] Good afternoon Kubuntu people [06:34] afternoon, smartboyhw-from-the-future [06:34] coming up on midnight here [06:35] valorie: Why am I from the future? [06:35] … [06:35] * smartboyhw is a present-tensed human, IIRC. [06:36] because it's not even midnight yet! [06:37] you are across the international dateline from me [06:37] * valorie is near Seattle, in the northwest of the US [06:37] valorie: LOL [06:38] * valorie waves across the Pacific [06:38] valorie: :D [08:10] cor valorie and ahoneybun seems to be really onto this documentation stuff [08:11] yofel: did you set up the 4.10.3 build status? [08:11] Riddell: \o/ [08:12] Good morning. [08:12] hi smartboyhw_, lordievader [08:13] Hey Riddell, how are you doing? [08:13] bright and breezy in the sun [08:14] Sounds like you are doing good :D [08:14] Riddell: Good afternoon [08:15] Hey smartboyhw_ [08:18] Riddell: he's on fire [08:19] I'm happy to help edit or even write, if he's willing to deal with the horrible wiki markup part [08:19] valorie: +1 [08:20] it breaks my brain to deal with more than one wiki markup system [08:20] http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/4.10.3.html [08:21] smartboyhw_: go fixage :) [08:22] shadeslayer: the sessionthread bug was not fixed [08:22] connect( m_socket, SIGNAL(error(KTcpSocket::Error)), [08:22] this, SLOT(socketError(KTcpSocket::Error)) ); [08:22] that's what I see in master even..... [08:27] Riddell: Meh no [08:27] Mobile [08:28] Doing Physics exercises [08:29] Riddell: That's a small number of packages as far as I can see here [08:32] kactivities has a failed nepomuk === smartboyhw__ is now known as smartboyhw [09:05] Riddell: yes [09:06] yofel: where? [09:06] the pad has the links [09:06] ah hah [09:06] http://kyofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.3_raring.html [09:06] my browser history is getting confused between kyofel and yofel.d.o [09:07] heh [09:07] well, mine too... [09:14] Riddell: yofel: LOL [09:18] xnox, ScottK: kde-wrkspace with the fix is in proposed [09:19] it's just not building [09:24] apachelogger: :O [09:27] apachelogger: Boost problems again right? [09:44] yeah [09:44] ScottK: I think that for a proper solution this bug needs to go upstream === G4MBY is now known as PaulW2U [09:47] ScottK: also please try http://paste.kde.org/737960/ and check what results that has [09:48] i.e. it fixes the crash, but I am not sure it will not have unintended consequences [09:51] Heh, good one shared by Randall Ross [09:51] http://www.saucysalamander.com/ourcafe.asp [09:52] hello [09:52] Hello Quintasan [09:55] apachelogger: the patch is gone! [09:56] if you watch porn in dragon it doesn't get added to the history, how unintuitive! [09:56] that's what I said :P [09:57] Riddell: apachelogger: You guys watch these things? [09:58] * smartboyhw decides to kill them [09:58] them = Riddell and apachelogger [09:58] you should see the decoration in this villa [09:58] Riddell: Eh? BTW is shadeslayer sitting next to you again? [09:58] haha [09:58] yes [09:59] apachelogger is buffering me from him [10:00] Riddell: ROFL [10:00] lololololo [10:02] did you have a fight? [10:02] * smartboyhw decides to send a nuclear bomb to where Riddell & shadeslayer & apachelogger is [10:02] sudo scp ~/bomb/riddell&shadeslayer&apachelogger.bomb ip:[whois:Riddell/ip] [10:02] ROFL [10:02] why would you sudo that? :O [10:02] ^^ [10:03] apachelogger: To make sure Quintasan doesn't deny access. [10:03] apachelogger: ssh! [10:03] apachelogger: alex is talking! [10:03] Riddell: shadeslayer is breaiing personviewer [10:03] intentionally! [10:03] * smartboyhw sends yet another (nuclear) bomb [10:03] I am not [10:03] I am waiting for Martin to push patches [10:03] Martin broke it [10:03] You're just being lazy shadeslayer [10:03] admin it [10:03] nope [10:03] admit it even* [10:04] OK stop it girls… [10:04] We all know it's true anyways :P [10:05] Hmm it worked [10:10] Quintasan: he is === Pici` is now known as Pici === markey_ is now known as markey [10:43] seaLne: yo, is the kubuntu at akademy on monday confirmed? [10:43] could I get something on the akademy website (just to make it feel more official, say no if it's hassle) === Tm_T is now known as Guest1531 === ryanakca is now known as Guest91110 === jefferai is now known as Guest37392 [10:43] Riddell: yes its confirmed, not sure how to represent it best on the website, once we've sorted out the rooms we are using it will go in the schedule beside the talks along with bofs [10:44] the list of group room requests are currently just in etherpad [10:57] groovy [11:02] Riddell: https://conf.kde.org/en/Akademy2013/public/schedule/2013-07-15 [11:02] you'll actually have it till 1900 but the system dosen't currently allow events that long [11:05] Riddell: i think if you login to frab you should be able to edit https://conf.kde.org/en/Akademy2013/events/76 to give it a desciption etc === rudy_is_my_dog is now known as monkeyjuice [11:19] hmm no I don't see to be able to [11:23] Riddell: what about now? [11:26] does it show up in https://conf.kde.org/en/Akademy2013/cfp [11:32] seaLne: lovely thanks [11:40] HI all [12:32] bye, no battery [12:51] apachelogger: Could you ask someone from upstream to have a look before I try it? This is my main $work laptop where I'm having the trouble and I'm slightly reluctant to try unreviewed patches on it. [13:19] Anything I missed? [13:32] shadeslayer: tell ervin to come on irc [13:32] can't [13:32] too far [13:33] shadeslayer: tell jr to tell aurelien to tell alex to tell kevin then [13:33] Riddell: ^^ [13:34] alternatively open http://paste.kde.org/737960/ and show it to him [13:37] apachelogger: Can you take care of the FloodBot mess in #kubuntu ? [13:37] nope [13:37] The 3 bots are getting haywire… [13:38] I am not running the bots [13:38] apachelogger: Who is? [13:38] no clue [13:38] … [13:38] I forwarded it to the ops team [13:38] apachelogger: Thx;) [13:41] shadeslayer: what'd kevin say? :P [13:44] ... [13:44] didn't ping him, was testing phonon on the N7 [13:44] ahoneybun: ^^ [13:44] QML doesn't work though [13:45] no idea why -.- [13:58] shadeslayer: what? [13:58] ahoneybun: we can run Kubuntu Active [13:59] except touch + Plasma Active doesn't quite work [13:59] shadeslayer: PATCH!?!?!?! [13:59] heh [13:59] shadeslayer: also does the active userspace work? [14:00] ahoneybun: yes [14:00] also is that quantal or raring? [14:00] erm [14:00] apachelogger: yes [14:00] raring [14:00] QWidgets work, QML inside QWidgets work [14:01] shadeslayer: nice for you lol I could not get it to work [14:01] plasma active pure QML doesn't work [14:04] like I said I can;t get to the boot anyway' [14:04] you need to flash the rootfs and the kernel [14:04] and then it'll boot to a blank screen [14:05] how so? [14:05] there's no user on the system [14:05] and oem-config doesn't start afaict [14:05] so I chrooted into the rootfs from recovery, created a user, and started it via usb serial [14:06] it = plasma active [14:06] oh boy [14:06] shadeslayer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [14:07] cool :) [14:07] ahoneybun: Nice worj [14:07] *work [14:07] yeah ^^ [14:09] oh yea! [14:11] shadeslayer: I also moved all the images in the wiki not external links anymore [14:11] cool [14:12] ahoneybun: Awesome! [14:12] yep [14:12] sadly that page is not done yet [14:12] maybe 20% [14:13] shadeslayer: have you gotten the same good news from the n10? [14:29] ahoneybun: nope [14:29] playing with the n7 today since I won't have access to it later [14:31] oh ok [15:20] ::workspace-bugs:: [1176550] task manager highlights windows incorrectly @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1176550 (by Sebastian Bugiu) [15:43] ScottK: Any idea what would happen in Ubuntu if Debian switched to systemd? The only reason I see for using Upstart is that Debian still has sysvinit but that's hardly a valid reason now that systemd beats Upstart in every aspect [15:51] Quintasan: I'm not sure it's fair to put a questions like that on ScottK's shoulders :) [15:51] the main reason for upstart I think is "we wuz first" [15:52] Riddell: That's not a valid arugment IMO, at least if you claim you don't suffer from the NIH syndrome [15:52] but it was discussed a bit here yesterday if kubuntu could switch without ubuntu unity switching (purely as a theoretical question) [15:52] Quintasan: it was red hat's NIH first [15:53] Riddell: Uhh, you lost me at Red Hat's NIH [15:54] upstart came first [15:54] then red hat via lennart made systemd [15:54] so they were NIH first [15:54] Yeah, buy even after all those years of developement it's still worse than systemd :P [15:54] in what way? [15:55] upstart isn't even any good -_- [15:55] what's wrong with it? [15:55] I believe in almost every way including startup time rbelem [15:55] i mean compared to systemd, being so young, upstart is horrible [15:55] Riddell* [15:55] i think the real question is "what's better about it than sysvinit"? [15:56] There was some comparisions made but I'm not an expert on that so I can't say how true those are [15:58] i mean, does upstart even have a journal daemon? [15:58] because that's a huge feature right there in itself. [15:58] If systemd devs were claiming their software can do something while it can't the community would point that out very quickly [15:58] AFAIR not [15:58] Riddell: I was just wondering, I don't know if we could just go ahead and switch to systemd [15:59] Quintasan: that's a lot of QA [15:59] making sure it works and can revert back to upstart if you install it [16:00] it's hardly our speciality [16:00] and there's no paticular reason for it [16:00] Riddell: I'm more interested if we have the freedom to do it as a part of Ubuntu right now [16:01] upstart in general just seems like a couple things on top of sysvinit, not really rewriting from the ground up [16:01] and here's a good run down of the features http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html [16:01] (from systemd devs themselves) [16:01] Quintasan: we can do whatever we like but we'll get no support from foundations for diverging from them [16:01] the snapshots are cool as well. [16:02] Riddell: I see. [16:02] if we run into a problem they'll just laugh at us [16:02] So we could actually do that if we were able to pull it off but we can't so no point considering that [16:16] Quintasan: we could but it's not worth the risk [16:17] yeah, kinda silly imho [16:18] you'd be better off rebasing kubuntu on another distro ;) === Guest1531 is now known as Tm_T [16:43] Quintasan: In fact, there were (IIRC) 2 fecora releases that used upstart. [16:45] Quintasan: I believe that the plan for Debian for Jessie is to work to make it so people can use sysvinit, upstart, systemd, or whatever (there are other contenders too, like openrc). [16:46] Also, Ubuntu is already using some parts of systemd, I don't know details. [18:33] Quintasan: if you want to try debian with systemd then play with tanglu once that's in a usable state. That will use systemd by default [18:34] * yofel certainly prefers systemd's service status overview over upstart's [18:39] as for the parts of systemd that we're using.. Ubuntu plans to switch to logind for 13.10, we should follow suite so we can deprecate consolekit [20:01] Riddell: bug 1124149 [20:01] bug 1124149 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu 13.04 power button always turn off system" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124149 [20:32] feed workspace-bugs had 6 updates, showing the latest 3 [20:32] ::workspace-bugs:: [1168578] Date & Time in System settings doesn't saves NTP-server address @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1168578 (by BakLAN) [20:32] ::workspace-bugs:: [1176149] battery monitor does not detect battery after wake @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1176149 (by Alvin) [20:32]