[02:02] <redtape> Happy international no diet day ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_No_Diet_Day
[06:19] <AlanBell> that is a good day redtape :)
[06:59] <popey> Pip pip. Morning all
[07:33] <redtape> Hi AlanBell. & Allo popey ..
[07:35] <redtape> OT | That film "Once" is on at midday on BBC-1 (Again !!) | Wonder how many ppl will go straight to the auction sites and search "dyson" , today ??
[07:43] <redtape> OT | .. just reading today's Indo .. Page 35 : "The 10 Best Sun-Creams "   .. go-on rub it in why I need SPF factor>12 for the 9 °C walkies along the promenade.
[07:43]  * redtape 's now to  slither off to bed.
[07:58] <redtape> OT | So I take it the Post Office is going from a LLC to a PLC after the Queen's Annual Speech this week .. nice if they could issue some bonds again. mmmmpft 'been 4 years. Anyone @ the grindstone today ?
[08:02] <directhex> the post office needs to raise their prices. as a consumer i don't like spending money, but on an international basis, their prices are unsustainably low
[08:03] <redtape> should double by 2016. directhex.
[08:12] <redtape> popey: ¡¡  yur webcam is especially Aawesome today !! .. http://imgur.com/Z7jGYxT (slight over egged on the brighten tool, but A-Ok)
[08:25] <redtape> directhex: Meanwhile in Japan .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_postal_mark | .... I wonder if someone could do those symbols on here using their Chat-Client ?
[08:26] <directhex> 〒〠〶 ?
[08:29] <redtape> directhex .. how clever .. redtape facepalms.
[08:30] <redtape> I got the Link from here [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Typographical_symbols ] .. nice book that .. epub would be bettr .
[08:36] <redtape> OT | Anyone tried the Spring sales for Chrimbo presents  yet .. redtape's spoti.fy radio has just reminded him .. Good day to do it .. http://open.spotify.com/track/17oLsEzzlGFlrBKViCzmGc
[08:46] <redtape> Wow [selfcheck doubletake] .. Four OffTopix within two hours already . Must be the cautious classical music .. I'll resign to the Offers in the monthly catalogues & leave it there .... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/cpc.co.uk%2008447.88.00.88%20and%20Viking.com%20%20Direct%200844.412.0000.jpg
[09:21] <Laney> good day
[09:22] <Laney> bank holiday sourdough bread baking is go
[09:24] <redtape> Laney: any chance of creme cheese in that ?  Kinda like this :::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy0oYT_fzZQ
[09:25] <Laney> urgh
[09:25] <Laney> definitely not
[09:38] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:11] <dwatkins> Is it a bank holiday down south today too?
[11:13] <brobostigon> yes.
[11:13] <directhex> i work bank holidays.
[11:13] <Laney> those systems don't admin themselves eh
[11:15] <directhex> i get extra holiday days instead to use as i see fit
[11:25] <redtape> Finally sold my android on http://swappa.com .. Mine's third one down :: http://bit.ly/SumsungphoneII
[11:28] <dwatkins> I normally work bank holidays, I have the week off, though.
[11:29] <redtape> Hi dwatkins.. how's the Scottish weather.. ??
[11:30] <dwatkins> redtape: the sun is up, that's about all I can tell you right now ;)
[11:30]  * dwatkins has the curtains closed
[11:30] <dwatkins> Does anyone have any experience with UK ISPs which aren't O2, Vodafone or BT-owned? I'm looking to switch from BeThere as they just got bought by Sky.
[11:32] <redtape> yes.. use wimanx .. the best and secure ISP that doesn't bug you .. we use UK area codes here too 4 phones.
[11:32] <directhex> nah, i'm on BT. they have the most competitive fibre package
[11:32] <penguin42> dwatkins: hmm I was about to Say Demon, that got bought by Thus, that got bought by C&W ...... but has recently been bought by Vodafone
[11:32] <penguin42> dwatkins: (Which is what I'm on)
[11:34]  * redtape feels sorry for dwatkins. Both answers' by others lead him to his ones-he-didn't-want ISP's   ...
[11:35] <penguin42> dwatkins: But there are still some others - Zen, Andrews & Arnold for example
[11:35] <directhex> there are small fringe ISPs, like A&A
[11:35] <directhex> but £££££££££££££££££££££££££££
[11:35] <dwatkins> thanks folks, I'm currently considering Zen and IDNet, both look pretty good.
[11:35] <alcockell> Eclipse is pretty good as well - on the business tariffs
[11:36]  * penguin42 wonders what the maths is of getting two bad ones and hoping they don't both fail at the same time
[11:37] <redtape> dwatkins .. I'd ask this guy, before you make a bags of it .. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stuart-baggs/40/807/924
[11:39] <dwatkins> make a what, redtape?
[11:39] <dwatkins> I'm a long way from the Isle of Man.
[11:40] <mgdm> It's quite sunny in this corner of Scotland
[11:41] <redtape> make a bags of it .. it means make a heck of a mistake, right ?
[11:41] <dwatkins> mgdm: I'm in Edinburgh, which corner are you in?
[11:41] <dwatkins> redtape: no idea, I'm not familiar with that expression, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist :)
[11:41] <redtape> the jazz corner :D
[11:42] <redtape> Has anyone use Iomega Jazz disks , this century ?
[11:42] <mgdm> dwatkins: Same, for the moment, through for the weekend
[11:43] <dwatkins> nice, mgdm
[11:43] <mgdm> I'm normally in Glasgow
[11:43] <penguin42> redtape: I think they all self destructed last century
[11:44] <mgdm> *click& *click*
[11:44] <dwatkins> *clunk*
[11:47]  * redtape remembers a filofax version of the disk -reclaimed- and sold on http://craziestgadgets.com/ in 2007.
[11:48] <redtape> .. they do the same PCB's to make the filofax covers.
[11:48] <redtape> **same with PCB's..
[11:51] <dwatkins> I have a drinks coaster made from a PCB.
[11:52] <directhex> i liked jazz
[11:52] <directhex> could never afford a second cartridge though...
[11:54] <redtape> yeah, troo. I think they were mostly popular with business ppl, who had a propensity for excel etc. .. to store data securely .. around '96-'02
[11:56] <redtape> I do actually have a drive .. and disk .. but just the 100MB one .. wait .. that is jazz !  .it's at the bottom of my hula hoop box (empty crisps) of AV leads .. that I never go to unless I require an S&M lesson.
[11:57] <redtape> !language
[11:57] <brobostigon> 16c outside, ouch
[11:58] <redtape> brobostigon: Where's the nearest airport ?
[11:58] <brobostigon> redtape: probably oxford.
[11:59] <redtape> oh plop, firefox just bit the dust .. 3rd time today.. grumbles.
[12:00] <brobostigon> :(
[12:03] <redtape> brobostigon: I wish morse had this clock [oxford joke] http://craziestgadgets.com/2013/05/03/morse-code-clock-its-dot-dot-dash-oclock/
[12:03] <redtape>                                                                                    .. I'll just get my coat, then.  :(
[12:04] <brobostigon> redtape: let me look, minute.
[12:42] <redtape> brobostigon: Sorry for the Anti-Joke | Why are you twice as hot as here ? http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=oxford%2CUK | http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/03207.html?MR=1
[12:43] <redtape> oh, wait it was 9 °C  this morning, that's why.
[12:46] <brobostigon> redtape: it was about 8/9c when i got up.
[12:49] <penguin42> it was more than that when I got up; but I didn't get up until midday
[12:51] <diddledan_> I got up about 10 minutes ago :-p
[12:52] <penguin42> and that's what bank holidays are for
[12:53] <redtape> Aaaaand .. I'm in snuggles on the couchie.
[12:54]  * penguin42 wonders if the wide eyed creature on the ubuntu 404 page has a name
[12:55] <penguin42> no one asked you bot!
[12:55] <redtape> ubuntu403 is better
[12:55] <Nafallo> you did ask... :-)
[12:55] <redtape> **ubuntu 403 page is bettr
[12:55] <penguin42> Nafallo: I thought it responded to    bug number
[12:56] <Nafallo> ubuntu number = ubuntu bug :-)
[12:56] <penguin42> ah
[12:56] <diddledan_> so if I randomly said gabber 404 it'll look for a gabber bug of that number?
[12:56] <Nafallo> debian 702372
[12:57] <Nafallo> diddledan_: only the bug trackers it knows about
[12:57] <diddledan_> hmm
[12:57] <Nafallo> gnome 609870
[12:57] <redtape> blag 5000
[12:57] <penguin42> well of course, I'd worry about a non-captive portal....
[12:58] <redtape> Ha .. I blagged it .. & it still worx !
[12:58] <penguin42> (What's a captive portal?)
[12:58] <Nafallo> penguin42: when you login to somewhere like starbucks wifi (which requires web page login) and all these random apps tries to use the internet... yeah, NM knowing about the login portal would be handy :-P
[12:58] <redtape> .. err a doorway in a correctional facility ? ^_^
[12:59] <Nafallo> captive portal = such a login page
[12:59] <penguin42> Nafallo: Ah right - yes that makes sense
[12:59] <Nafallo> so... you care now? :-D
[12:59] <penguin42> vaguely
[13:00] <redtape> I'm sure someone in the community cares, someone, somewhere ..
[13:00]  * penguin42 doesn't tend to be on that type of connection very often
[13:00] <Nafallo> <-- cares
[13:01] <redtape> Woot Nafallo !!
[13:01] <Nafallo> can't fix it, but I care :-)
[13:02] <redtape> you can't ?
[13:02] <penguin42> oh KDE's transfer thing is very pretty; has a bandwidth graph in the notification area
[13:02] <redtape> Right, know this chimney sweep , who doubles as a ... during the daytime ^_^
[13:02] <Nafallo> no idea. haven't read that code for a few years.
[13:03] <penguin42> Nafallo: I suppose the only way to detect a portal like that is to fetch a few web pages of your choice and see if you get what you expect
[13:04] <diddledan_> yup, that's how apple does it
[13:04] <diddledan_> they have a defined page in a defined location and check whether they can fetch it intact
[13:04] <Nafallo> android goes to a google page for the purpose.
[13:08] <penguin42> Nafallo: your main apt source's would seem a reasonable place
[13:12] <penguin42> while I guess being careful not to cause a vast load
[13:18] <ixxvil> what is the ubuntu ny channel?
[13:18] <ixxvil> forgot
[13:44] <jpds> Nafallo: There is a way to make NM GET a page to test connectivity.
[13:45] <Nafallo> jpds: so they fixed the bug? :-)
[13:47] <jpds> Nafallo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-July/035490.html
[13:47] <jpds> Nafallo: But no portal.
[15:27] <^Snake> partition sizes for a dual boot system, what sort of size should be reserved for Ubuntu ?
[15:30] <^Snake> I've got a 500Gb Sata, 10Gb for Recovery Partition, 50ishGb for Vista, ??? for Ubuntu, the rest for personal files
[15:30] <directhex> ^Snake, depends on whether you want all of ubuntu in one partition, or to have /home as a separate partition
[15:30] <directhex> i'd never expect to use more than 10, maybe 20gb for /, but could easily use hundreds for /home
[15:31] <^Snake> I am real new to Linux, what does / or /home represent ?
[15:32] <^Snake> my old drive was 150Gb, 10 Recovery, 70 Vista, 70 personal data
[15:32] <penguin42> ^Snake: A directory which is (typically) the point at which a filesystem is mounted
[15:33] <directhex> ^Snake, / is c:\, /home is c:\users
[15:33] <^Snake> the problem I found was first install of Vista only took about 10-15 Gb, but with constant Windows Updates, the 70 Gb shrank to barely 20Gb free after three months
[15:33] <directhex> or c:\documents and settings, on older versons of windows
[15:33] <^Snake> ahh
[15:33] <directhex> so all your user docs, settings, downloads, caches, mail, music, porn, steam games
[15:34] <^Snake> steam games ?
[15:34] <directhex> steampowered.com
[15:34] <^Snake> ok, will look at that after
[15:35] <directhex> but anyway, the point is, you don't need much space for the OS. it won't really grow much over time. but if you keep your user docs on the same partition as your os, then you need to be more cautious
[15:35] <^Snake> so I could set say leave 20 for Ubuntu, then dump everything (/home) into another partition
[15:35] <directhex> yeah
[15:36] <directhex> on this laptop, i have a 64gb partition for windows 8, and a 176 partition for everything ubuntu related in one big partition
[15:36] <^Snake> ok, everyone knows what Win(bl)ows is like for data hogging & bloating, I just wanted to have a realistic idea of what to set as a partition
[15:36] <directhex> well, upgrading from vista would help you there.
[15:36] <directhex> 7 uses about 10 gig less space than vista
[15:36] <^Snake> damn
[15:41] <directhex> of course, part of that is a big disk user with windows is the backups it makes allowing you to uninstall patches, so an older os has more patches so more backups
[15:52] <^Snake> the thing I have found with Vista, there is always no more that 5 to 8 restores available, no matter how long it's been in use, or what amount of installs etc is happening
[15:59] <^Snake> you mentioned earlier the user docs, settings, caches, etc, am I right that is like the Users/{Account}/AppData & Program Files/{Various Programs}
[16:03] <directhex> programs get installed to /
[16:03] <directhex> user data goes to /home
[16:03] <directhex> i'm oversimplifying, but i swear i will stab the first person to correct me
[16:03] <^Snake> lol
[16:04]  * brobostigon keeps his mouth shut.
[16:04] <^Snake> ok, the reason for double checking, I never save my data to the windows partition, the user files like Email, docs, music, etc is mapped to another partition
[16:06] <^Snake> what I'm looking at right now, is 4 partitions, saving all my personal files to the 4th, hopefully that should keep the Ubuntu partition within the 20Gb allocation
[16:11] <directhex> if you take /home out of the equation, only a rare class of user will need more than about 4 gig for everything else
[16:11] <penguin42> directhex: I think the installation asks for about 5-6GB min
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> also, logs grow
[16:12] <directhex> penguin42, 4.2
[16:12] <directhex> MartijnVdS, which logs? his apache and mysql logs?
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> directhex: /var/log/syslog ?
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> rotation doesn't always work if you don't have the machine on 24/7
[16:14] <directhex> the installer asks for ~4gb, the actual base install is about 2gb. if your syslog grows to 2g before being rotated away, your pc is broken
[16:14] <directhex> very
[16:15] <popey> ebenink
[16:15] <^Snake> just looking at that on forums, & they mention WUBI, WT????
[16:18] <directhex> wubi is a discontinued installer which you run from windows, rather than booting the installer directly
[16:18] <^Snake> ahh
[16:19] <^Snake> the version I downloaded, an ISO, was burned to disc & boots from the CD, with an option to install, so I don't have to worry about that then
[16:20] <^Snake> ok, I'm using gparted to create the extra partitions, I gather I have to leave a min of 1MiB at the beginning of the drive prior to first partition, MBR & such, what what about between each partition, should I allocate a space between each partition after that?
[16:21] <directhex> you don't need to leave any space at the beginning of the drive, or between partitions. i'm not sure where you might have heard that from
[16:23] <^Snake> from gparted, it's the first box in the Create New Partiotion window
[16:23] <dwatkins> unless it's to make sure the partition boundaries are in sync with the physical filesystem blocks
[16:23] <dwatkins> to avoid writing two blocks for each actual block you write etc. - although that's only really an issue on RAID arrays
[16:24] <^Snake> I've never seen this on Windows based Partition software, so I thought I'd check, lol
[16:24] <^Snake> not using any Arrays on this system :-)
[16:27] <dwatkins> no worries, then
[16:39] <Darael> Question I raised yesterday, and then vanished before popey's response: I've had an issue - for a while, now - that appears to be triggered by the Programmer Dvorak keyboard layout.  I'm pretty sure it's some kind of bug, and it's been present in at least the last four releases.  Does anyone know what the best package to file a bug with is? (Yes, I'm "anyone"-ing.  Sorry)
[16:39] <penguin42> what's the issue?
[16:42] <Darael> penguin42: If one sets it as the primary layout, then the following things happen:  Following the next login, anything set in the "options" popup ceases to have any effect, and changing layouts doesn't work.
[16:43] <popey> and the problem goes away if you set a different keyboard layout?
[16:43] <penguin42> this is an options on the keyboard settings?
[16:43] <Darael> Furthermore removing it from the layout list doesn't solve the issue; the account is stuck in that layout indefinitely.  Deleting the entirety of ~/.config fixes it, assuming the system default layout is something else, but I haven't been able to narrow down what it is in .config that's causing the problem.
[16:43] <Darael> penguin42: Yes.
[16:43] <Darael> popey: Only if one never logs in with Programmer Dvorak set as the first layout.
[16:45] <popey> if you can reproduce this issue with the guest account, with step by step instructions, just file it under "ubuntu" and I'll get someone from the desktop team to take a look at it
[16:45] <Darael> Oddly everything is fine for the remainder of the session in which is is first set as the primary layout, and I *think* even for the first session after a new install in which it's chosen at install time.  It's only after... well, I was going to say a login, but it may well be a log*out*.
[16:45] <penguin42> Darael: I'd say gnome-control-centre
[16:46] <penguin42> oops, center
[16:46] <penguin42> Darael: That looks like the thing that does that options box to me
[16:46] <penguin42> or the whole keyboard layout I think is probably /usr/lib/control-center-1/panels/libkeyboard.so that seems to be part of it
[16:50] <Darael> OK, this is an interesting one.  Attempted to reproduce on the guest login, and when I logged out of it, not only did that X session terminate, but so did my own.  And now lightdm won't start.
[16:50] <Darael> ...Except that on the next attempt, it will.
[16:50] <Darael> Never mind that, then.
[16:52] <Darael> Hmm.  Cannot reproduce with the guest account, even with system default layout set to the one in question.
[16:52] <Darael> Going to try setting up a new account, and attempting to reproduce with that, because I've experienced this on multiple machines.
[16:52] <popey> remember that when you logout of guest it destroys the session
[16:53] <Darael> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  Guessing it's either an interaction with one of the extra options one can set (I've tended to map capslock to backspace, for example) or something that occurs on logout.
[16:58] <Darael> OK, let's see.  Can't reproduce with no extra options enabled, which is interesting.  Time to try running through the possibilities, see what triggers it.
[16:59] <Darael> ...oh, wait, I *can* reproduce something I alway thought was *part* of the bug.
[17:00] <Darael> (The indicator, post logout and login, doesn't show any changes in layout, either passively or in its menu, even when one changes it.  At least the layout does change, however)
[17:02] <Darael> penguin42: (By the way, I don't think it's gnome-control-center, on the grounds that options *previously applied* cease to have their effect when the problem manifests itself.  They work when first set, but then next time around they've stopped even though gnome-control-center shows them as still being set)
[17:06] <Darael> AHA!  OK, so I was wrong about the thing triggering it.  It's nothing to do with Programmer Dvorak, it's about setting the numpad layout to Hexadecimal.
[17:06] <penguin42> ooh how do you do that - never knew that was possible
[17:07] <penguin42> huh yeh - neat
[17:08] <penguin42> seems to ignore it though
[17:10] <Darael> penguin42: The letters are shifted on the numpad4 through numpad9.
[17:10] <Darael> Assuming numlock is on, that should be all that's necessary.  If it's off, my guess would be level-3 shift?
[17:11] <Darael> It certainly works for me for the session in which it's initially enabled.  It's every session after that that's messed up.
[17:11] <penguin42> nope, doesn't do it for
[17:12] <penguin42> what are the 'level-3' thing about?
[17:13] <Darael> Huh.  Come to think of it, it's a bit screwy for me, these days.
[17:14] <Darael> I can only get ABCD, not EF, and they're on 8264 for some reason.
[17:16] <Darael> penguin42: Third level shift is what AltGr is configured to do on Windows, for example.  It's another shift state; allows one to get four characters on a key.  Used a fair amount in various European keyboard layouts to get things like umlauts.
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> wööt
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> AltGr+5 = €, for example
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> AltGr+Shift+4 ($) = £
[17:23] <penguin42> ah ok
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> I also have several "dead" modifiers (that put the accent in a buffer somewhere, then put it on the next letter I type)
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> AltGr+", e = ë
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> AltGr+6, e = ê
[17:26] <Darael> The third level is where the various "putting currency symbols on keys" options place the currency symbols, as well.
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> Darael: like I said :)
[17:26] <Darael> (although AltGr+Shift+4 is the fourth level)
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> Darael: it's how I do £ and €
[17:26] <Darael> MartijnVdS: Indeed.  Not all layouts actually require those settings, :-P
[17:27]  * MartijnVdS uses US-International-NoDeadkeys
[17:27] <Darael> (some of them have currency symbols in level3 or level4 by default)
[17:27] <Darael> MartijnVdS: A NoDeadkeys variant... with deadkey modifiers?
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> (most keyboards in the Netherlands have a US layout with a € sign printed on the 5, instead of the traditional Dutch layout)
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> Darael: yes, AltGr + ', ", 6(^), `, etc.
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> though altgr+letter also does stuff: p = ö, z = æ, etc.
[17:29] <penguin42> we seem to have a lot of stuff mapped like that even in the UK mapping
[17:30] <penguin42> we seem to have alt-gr+z/x as «»
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: those are on [] for me
[17:30] <penguin42> æ is alt-gr A
[17:30] <penguin42> oh well, I never use any of them
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> and AltGr+Shift [] = “”
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> “Woohoo”
[17:31] <Darael> Basically, the third-level shift options are worth knowing about.
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> Darael: time for a blog/g+ post
[17:31] <Darael> As are the fourth-level ones (shift+AltGr) (or whatever one has set as the third-level shift key).
[17:32] <penguin42> ←↓→↑ are kind of useful on yui
[17:32] <Darael> There's also a setting for fifth-level shift, but I have no idea whether any of the layouts distributed with Ubuntu have anything on shift levels five through eight.
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> Darael: Ctrl+AltGr+Shift?
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> Darael: or Meta?
[17:33] <Darael> MartijnVdS: Look in the layout settings, under Options.  There are two categories of settings about shift levels, one being third-level shift keys and one being fifth-level.  I don't know what relation these may have to Meta, although my understanding is that we generally treat alt as Meta.
[17:34] <Darael> And it's certainly not Ctl; that's a different bucky-bit again.  AIUI.
[17:34] <Darael> Bring back Hyper, Front, and Top, that's what I say.  :-P
[17:36] <penguin42> bring back left keys
[17:48] <Darael> popey: I *tried* to file a bug.  But I didn't put it on the clipboard before I clicked the button, and I got the "something went wrong in Launchpad" page.  It will take a little while to type it up again...
[17:48] <popey> press back?
[17:49] <Darael> Tried it.  Just get the page asking for a bug title, not the full description-box.  And the input box I have is empty.
[17:50] <Darael> ...But filling that in again with the same title as before does get me my full writeup.  Thankfully.
[17:52] <popey> sounds like a crap browser
[17:53] <popey> glad you got the content back
[17:53] <Darael> It's Firefox.
[17:53] <popey> I was right ㋛
[17:53] <Darael> OK, now I have a different problem.  Under "in what package did you find this bug?", if I choose the "I don't know" radio button, Launchpad consistently errors.  So what package should I file it under, given that it rejects "ubuntu"?
[17:53] <Darael> ubuntu-desktop?
[17:54] <Darael> Well, it doesn't *reject* ubuntu-desktop.  It just errors out, exactly as if I'd checked the "I don't know" radio button.
[17:56] <popey> put lightdm for now
[17:56] <popey> we can move it
[17:56]  * popey reboots
[17:57] <Darael> Launchpad: Error ID OOPS-ed15658c147a6a583ffca6ad180694fa
[17:57] <Darael> Again.
[18:00] <penguin42> give it a few minutes or ask in #launchpad
[18:02] <Darael> Tried starting over with "ubuntu-bug lightdm", and it worked.  Bug 1177023.
[18:07] <penguin42> Darael: Good use of blaming Popey
[18:08] <penguin42> there are somethings that are very neat in python; the list and dictionary comprehension in particular; inodemap={ os.stat(imagedir+"/"+f).st_ino : f  for f in os.listdir(imagedir) }
[18:23] <Darael> penguin42: I do my best.
[19:12] <zleap> hi DanS
[19:13] <DanS> Hi zleap
[19:13] <zleap> AlanBell, are we still able to get 12.04 cd's for software freedom day
[19:21] <DanS> AlanBell: I am part of a Linux Users Group and we are organising an event for software freedom day would it be possible to have some CDs of Ubuntu 12.04 sent to me at all?
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> argh
[20:16] <daftykins> argh?
[20:16] <daftykins> also hi :D
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> After watching a video with audio at 48000KHz, "normal" things (flash, rhythmbox) sound like the smurfs
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> (because they expect it to be at 44100)
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> pulse was supposed to fix this!
[20:17] <daftykins> pulse was meant to do a lot
[20:17] <daftykins> :D
[20:35] <^Snake> I haven't installed any OS yet, but reading some forums on bootloaders, they are talking about LILO, GRUB, BURG, & EasyBCD, is there any preference to which is best to use?
[20:36] <daftykins> GRUB2'll be standard on pretty much any modern distribution
[20:36] <daftykins> depends what you're looking to install
[20:45] <^Snake> Windows Vista is the first to be installed, then Ubuntu 12.04
[20:45] <^Snake> seperate partitions for each OS
[20:46] <daftykins> ^Snake: yeah just do it as normal then. i'd recommend fully patching Vista before installing ubuntu though
[20:46] <daftykins> i.e. be sure you've got SP2 on at least
[20:47] <^Snake> yeah, sp 1 is a shit to install, no longer get the pack from windows update, gotta use the download from the website, then other stuff to do to "fix" it
[20:47] <daftykins> if i were you, grab an already-integrated with SP2 .ISO image
[20:48] <daftykins> you can find them online pretty easily, from the digital river (official microsoft) links
[20:48] <daftykins> saves you a LOT of time and is faster in general
[20:48] <^Snake> I've previously downloaded SP1 & SP2 packs, got them on a backup drive
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> you don't need both
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> SP2 contains 1, if I'm correct?
[20:49] <AlanBell> zleap: DanS: not sure we can get more 12.04 cds easily
[20:50] <zleap> ok
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: buy a pack of CD-Rs and sit down for a few days ;)
[20:50] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: negative
[20:50] <daftykins> for Windows Vista, you have to put SP2 on after SP1
[20:50] <DanS> AlanBell: what about other versions
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: eww
[20:50] <daftykins> it's the only one that broke from the usual SP approach
[20:50] <AlanBell> however there was a conference pack for the ucubed event that got misdelivered, I wonder if I can get that sent somewhere useful
[20:50] <zleap> AlanBell, so what do you recommend,
[20:50] <daftykins> ^Snake: sure but installing them like that will give a slower OS than an 'SP2 disc'
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: ("negatory")
[20:51] <zleap> AlanBell, could be useful were were lookingat getting one anyway for sfd
[20:51] <AlanBell> DanS: they didn't press 13.04 and probably won't do another until 14.04, if at all
[20:51] <DanS> Ok what about 12.10 possibly?
[20:52] <zleap> i thought they were pressing more 12.04 as that is the lts release
[20:52] <AlanBell> I have a handful of 12.10 left
[20:52] <AlanBell> maybe a dozen or so
[20:52] <zleap> ok
[20:52] <DanS> They would be useful
[20:52] <zleap> i have a few here
[20:53] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: there's a difference on such nega-terminology? :)
[20:53] <zleap> AlanBell, how much would it cost to have a conference pack sent to me please? if I can get the money from the exeter lug i would be interested for sfd
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: negatory ;)
[20:53] <^Snake> the ubuntu website is still showing as able to get 12.04 on cd
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's just.. Americans :)
[20:54] <AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17 is the available CDs to buy
[20:54] <zleap> ok
[20:54] <AlanBell> conference pack is free if it gets approved, which they generally are if you can point to a proper looking event
[20:54] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: so americans say 'negative' ? i don't quite follow
[20:55] <DanS> AlanBell: we have a page on what needs to be done and what stands we are going to try and hold for the event
[20:55] <zleap> AlanBell, ok so we need to get the info on sfd done ASAP,  we have a exeter  lug meet on Friday I can push for this,  its still in a planning stage  atm
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: some Americans, mostly of the "miltary" and "trucker" kind, or people who say it "ironically", tend to say "negatory" instead of "negative"
[20:55] <DanS> zleap: I put a basic description down at top of page
[20:56] <zleap> ok
[20:56] <DanS> Just when and where
[20:57] <DanS> AlanBell: what is required in terms of proper event
[20:57] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah ok
[20:59] <zleap> AlanBell, i will let you know what we have organised for sfd,  :) amd we can work with you perhaps to make sure the event ticks the right boxes
[21:25] <AlanBell> ok, I will find out what happened to the conference pack that is floating about
[21:28] <zleap> AlanBell, thanks
[21:38] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:38] <bigcalm> I can never get the right syntax. How does one add an existing user to an existing group?
[21:40] <daftykins> useradd -m -G [group] username ?
[21:49] <bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ sudo useradd -m -G dialout iain
[21:49] <bigcalm> useradd: user 'iain' already exists
[21:49] <mgdm> instead of -m use -a
[21:50] <mgdm> and it's usermod, not useradd
[21:50] <daftykins> oh he said existing user
[21:50] <daftykins> my bad
[21:50] <daftykins> learn2read daftykins !
[21:50] <bigcalm> Ta. Lets see if this worked
[21:53] <bigcalm> That worked, ta
[21:54] <daftykins> 0o
[21:54] <daftykins> vewy gewd
[21:54] <ali1234> sudo gpasswd -a user group
[21:57] <daftykins> nn all \o
[22:00] <bigcalm> Finished Portal for the 50th time, what do I do now?
[22:10] <^Snake> can anyone recommend a good drive tester, I need something that can find out which of my drives is being weird (odd noises, but can't localise to which drive)
[22:25] <jacobw> I couldn't see the point of Chef before I used Puppet
[22:50] <bigcalm> Oh balls: iain is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
[22:51] <bigcalm> Messed up my own user some how
[22:51] <bigcalm> Ah
[22:52] <bigcalm> While trying to add my user to the dialout group, I managed to set it as my only group
[22:52] <bigcalm> Not sure how to recover from this. Live CD maybe?
[22:54] <shauno> have you rebooted since?  any sessions open anywhere that were started before the change?
[22:55] <shauno> any shell that was started before the changes should still be running with the groups it was exec'd with
[22:56] <bigcalm> I've logged out/in so that my user was part of the dialout group
[22:57] <shauno> you're probably stuck with 'rescue mode' then .. single-user boot, livecd, etc
[22:58] <bigcalm> Yep
[22:58] <bigcalm> And visudo to add myself back in
[23:05]  * bigcalm returns victorious