[01:55] <grantbow> meeting in about 5 minutes
[02:01] <grantbow> So who's here for the meeting?
[02:02] <eps> yo
[02:02] <akk> me
[02:06] <grantbow> ok, the floor is open. Any volunteers to help document meetings?
[02:06] <grantbow> :-)
[02:07] <eps> Don't we have a bot for that?
[02:08] <grantbow> not all of it
[02:13] <grantbow> OK, if there's nothing else we can conclude.
[02:14] <akk> Nice short meeting. :)
[02:14] <eps> Did everyone enjoy the virtual release party?
[02:14] <eps> (A Release Party without beer is as much fun as a UDS without omelets.)
[02:15] <akk> BTW, I don't think I ever got a pre-notice of this meeting.
[02:16] <akk> Didn't know about a virtual release party either, though I think I might have seen something from grantbow that such a thing could be organized. Maybe I'm missing mail.
[02:17] <grantbow> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2013-April/002206.html
[02:17] <darthrobot> Title: [[Ubuntu-US-CA] Fwd: 13.04 Raring Ringtail Global Release Party]
[02:18] <eps> There weren't *any* physical Release Parties announced in the U.S. except in conjunction with previously-scheduled unrelated events. Other than that, the Ohio team put in the most effort: they set up a telephone conference call.
[02:19] <grantbow> just because there are no loco.ubuntu.com listings doesn't mean people haven't been talking about the release
[02:20] <akk> Yeah, I saw that one (so pleia2, not grantbow), but if that was an announcement of a virtual release party, I didn't understand it.
[02:20] <akk> To me that looks like "if you're having a release party, add it to that page".
[02:22] <grantbow> you missed your opportunities eps and akk :-)
[02:22] <eps> This release seems to have been viewed as rather anticlimactic. I handed out discs at a LUG meeting today. Kubuntu discs for the Unity haters. No one was interested in the mainstream. :-(
[02:23] <akk> I'm actually looking forward to upgrading (just haven't had time yet), but mostly because the gtk libraries fix a longstanding gimp problem.
[02:23] <akk> unity/kde/etc. is a nonissue for me.
[02:25] <eps> In the "real world" it's everything. Mint might not exist if people weren't more intrested in image than substance.
[02:27] <akk> Yeah, I'd be afraid to hand a unity ubuntu disk to a windows/mac user and say "try this". Seen too many people (even ubuntu users) fumble around trying to do things.
[02:27] <akk> Of course, windows 8 is even worse. :)
[02:29] <grantbow> and then there's the productsearch.ubuntu.com feature which I think still needs to be off by default and similar things as mentioned by Micah in his article for the EFF
[02:29] <akk> yeah ... doesn't matter when handing it to win/mac users, but it definitely matters in the OSS community.
[02:29] <eps> Yeah, but at least Microsoft keeps a lid on the number of variations. Distrowatch makes the Linux community look like there's little cohesion.
[02:33] <eps> We might benefit from a "Linux idol" approach ... thousands of contenders get winnowed down; the top dozen of so go on tour, and the rest go home.
[02:33] <eps> s/of/or
[02:33] <akk> But it's OSS, so nobody needs to go home. If anybody wants to run a small distro, they can.
[02:35] <eps> I understand why "if you don't like it, fork it" is viewed as a strength of OSS, but it doesn't play in Peoria. It just looks childish.
[02:36] <akk> People in Peoria aren't reading distrowatch or keeping track of all the distros.
[02:36] <eps> The general public has a herd mentality. "I want to be in individual, just like everybody else."
[02:36] <eps> akk: exactly.
[02:36] <akk> They'll only hear about the super major ones (like Ubuntu) or whatever their friends give them.
[02:36] <akk> So how does it hurt anybody to have other little forked distros?
[02:37] <akk> I mean, I can't see taking the time to make a new distro myself, but if someone wants to ...
[02:39] <eps> It creates the perception that none of them are good enough. They're looking for an oligopoly, like we have with cellular carriers, broadcast TV networks, automobile manufacturers, etc.
[02:39] <akk> It's not like Peoria Windows users are going "gee, I'd like to upgrade to Linux but I can't decide between Ubuntu, Joeschmoenix and Cutecatnix. So I guess I'll stick with Windows."
[02:39] <akk> They won't even hear about the minor ones.
[02:39] <eps> You'd be surprised.
[02:39] <eps> "Linux suffers from too much fragmentation."
[02:40] <akk> You're saying that's a quote from some non Linux using individual in Peoria?
[02:41] <eps> Take a peek at what "they" are reading ... from our perspective, it's fueled by ignorance. But a lot of so-called "experts" more or less deliver the same message: if you stick with Microsoft and Apple, you don't have to burdened with choices. You don't need to compare; you don't need to think.
[02:44] <akk> I always read articles about Linux in the mainstream press when I see them. Though I don't see them often.
[02:45] <akk> When I do, usually the "experts" either say "Whahh, I tried Ubuntu and I was confused and my MS docs didn't open right" or "Gee, I tried Ubuntu and it was really usable."
[02:45] <eps> The general public gets excited about auto shows and gun shows. They aren't mobbing, e.g. SCALE. That's a missed opportunity for us.
[02:46] <akk> Auto shows and gun shows advertise heavily to the general public.
[02:46] <eps> Uh-huh.
[02:46] <akk> Also, they're usually in places where there's parking. :/
[02:47] <eps> Uh-huh.
[02:47] <akk> Even minor shows advertise. I drive around San Jose or Burbank and I see billboards advertising HempCon or Tattoo Expo.
[02:48] <eps> Can we model after something a little more ... kid friendly?
[02:48] <akk> I've never seen a billboard or newspaper ad for SCALE. (Not that I think they should.)
[02:49] <akk> Well, I see billboards for the auto show, the motorcycle show, etc. too. But those are huge, everybody hears about those.
[02:49] <eps> Anyone else remember the Robert Austin Computer Shows in the Bay Area? We used to do installfests there.
[02:49] <eps> They advertised, and there was plenty of parking.
[02:49] <akk> Or Maker Faire -- they have a "street team" handing out flyers and putting up ads a month in advance.
[02:50] <akk> And OMG, it's totally mobbed.
[02:50] <akk> Traffic is backed up for 5 miles trying to get there.
[02:51] <akk> But SCALE isn't really suitable to that kind of advertising -- there's not that much there aimed at people who don't yet use Linux.
[02:51] <eps> Maker Faire offers a glimmer of hope. But aren't they dominated by Arduino religion?
[02:51] <akk> Hardly! You'll search a long time to find Arduinos at Maker Faire.
[02:51] <akk> It's all huge expensive fancy stuff.
[02:51] <eps> They're moving up in the world. Good to hear.
[02:52] <akk> Metal dragons that shoot flame, and metal moving winged sculptures, and art cars, and things like that.
[02:53] <akk> It's spectacle, for the general public, not really a place for smalltime makers to gather and share tips.
[02:53] <MarkDude> True
[02:54] <MarkDude> Its a place to find new geeks
[02:54] <MarkDude> Or hand out cards
[02:56] <akk> There don't seem to be many installfests any more, or similar outreach to help people get started with Linux.
[02:57] <akk> Every other year or so I hear about one at a college somewhere, for college students.
[02:57] <eps> Software Freedom Day.
[03:03] <MarkDude> SFD is awesome
[03:03]  * MarkDude was pushed around in his wheelchair by Courtney one year
[03:04] <MarkDude> Handing out CDs
[03:05] <MarkDude> BTW, I once had a dream of making my own Linux Distro
[03:05] <MarkDude> Dudebuntu
[03:06] <MarkDude> So is this a meeting - or are we just sorta chatting about world domination
[03:06] <eps> Yes. ;-)
[03:06] <MarkDude> Speaking of which- is anyone else subscribed to bug#1
[03:06] <MarkDude> Rather epic little flurry of emails
[03:07] <MarkDude> 1st made point that in China Ubuntu has market share
[03:07] <MarkDude> Then all of a sudden, some mktg dude sent all sorts of updates
[03:08] <MarkDude> Ubuntu is a fantastic community, but is is too fragmented and anarchic
[03:08] <MarkDude> to debug this particular bug!
[03:08] <MarkDude> -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team.
[03:08] <MarkDude> Which is hella odd
[03:08] <eps> (Who?)
[03:09] <MarkDude> No idea
[03:09] <MarkDude> the list is not like other ML
[03:09] <MarkDude> so I cant just give link on it
[03:10] <MarkDude> Apparently bug#1 split into like 15 separate branches
[03:10] <MarkDude> so subribing to it - meant I am getting mails from 15 parts or so
[03:11] <MarkDude> Anyway, most times you can tell if its a troll or some flameout
[03:12] <MarkDude> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
[03:12] <darthrobot> Title: [Bug #1 (liberation) “Microsoft has a majority market share” : Bugs : Ubuntu]
[03:12] <MarkDude> 1802 is where Barry starts being odd
[03:13] <MarkDude> Before that is some good stuff- the part about China and market share. But not sure if its facts
[03:15] <MarkDude> And by the way - this is called "mission-type tactics":
[03:15] <MarkDude> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission-type_tactics
[03:15] <MarkDude> ;-)
[03:15] <MarkDude> Best regards, Martin.
[03:15] <darthrobot> Title: [Mission-type tactics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]
[03:17] <MarkDude> Ok so his stuff came thru ClubDistro, which is some Thai Ubuntu thing
[03:17]  * MarkDude thinks someone got hacked or some odd trolling is going on
[03:17] <MarkDude> next item
[03:17] <MarkDude> Geeknic
[03:18] <MarkDude> Heather Farms
[03:18] <MarkDude> this month
[03:18] <MarkDude> Geeknic Santa Cruz- in next 2-3 months- sound good?
[03:20]  * eps wonders if Jono might show at Heather Farms
[03:26] <MarkDude> Possible
[03:26] <MarkDude> With his cute kid- that can be dicey
[03:26] <akk> Santa Cruz sounds good, Heather Farms maybe.
[03:26] <MarkDude> akk- Wc is the location we can do easiest
[03:26] <MarkDude> I can do one this month there
[03:26] <MarkDude> Too hard anywhere else
[03:27] <akk> I understand. Just may not make it.
[03:27] <MarkDude> So by my thought- we let Ubuntu Cali decide other location
[03:27] <MarkDude> as in we have 2 of 3 months figured
[03:27] <MarkDude> Maybe we can use that akk center locator
[03:28] <MarkDude> or do the picnic at that place near Los gatos
[03:30] <eps> I'm going to leave you to work out the details. Just make sure whatever you decide gets announced somewhere other than Facebook.
[03:31] <MarkDude> Sure
[03:31]  * MarkDude will ask that someone else be proxy to email to Cali list
[03:32]  * MarkDude was told asking list if anyone would want free tickets for A's game was not proper use of list
[03:33]  * MarkDude is one of the few that gets along with Rick - so I can focus on those lists - if you can handle sending to this list eps?
[03:33]  * MarkDude wants it copacetic :)
[03:33] <eps> I *never* post on the ML.
[03:33] <MarkDude> Courtney can do it. No stress
[03:33] <MarkDude> You are needed to operate bbq
[03:34]  * MarkDude has mesquite and cherry wood chips
[03:34] <MarkDude> They go nice with rosemary for smoking
[03:34]  * eps suggests an "eBay" approach: offer free Ubuntu DVDs with bonus A's tickets
[03:35] <MarkDude> lol
[03:36]  * MarkDude noticed a few people are on edge
[03:36] <MarkDude> My sense of humor may not be best used at this time
[03:37] <MarkDude> Maybe if I would have used the Meetup group I can post with
[03:37] <MarkDude> Drew Ubuntu power to the People cool one
[03:37] <MarkDude> Drew's
[03:38]  * MarkDude is gonna use that for announcing a Fedora release party btw 
[03:39] <MarkDude> Let me see if I can review the meeting
[03:39] <MarkDude> Maker faire. make your own Distros.
[03:40]  * MarkDude is the ONLY person here subscribed to bug#1. Geeknic Santa Cruz is a go
[03:40] <MarkDude> And the list can decide the other locations
[03:40] <MarkDude> eps, still willing to operate BBQ
[03:41] <MarkDude> akk, still full of common sense, and hoping more stuff happens south
[03:41]  * MarkDude is *still nutty*
[03:41] <MarkDude> #end meeting
[03:41] <MarkDude> :D
[03:41] <eps> We wouldn't have you any other way ;-)
[03:41] <MarkDude> Sorry, any thing from floor 1st
[03:41] <MarkDude> ?
[03:42] <akk> eps++
[03:42] <MarkDude> ;)
[03:42] <MarkDude> Sometimes they are windmills, mostly they are dragons
[03:43] <akk> It's so hard to tell the difference.
[03:44] <MarkDude> Yes true
[03:44] <akk> Anyway, everybody knows windmills are really evil Martians. http://xkcd.com/556/
[03:44] <darthrobot> Title: [xkcd: Alternative Energy Revolution]
[03:44]  * MarkDude does know he IS chasing less windmills
[03:45] <eps> fewer windmills
[03:45] <MarkDude> lowering my overall tilting percentage
[03:46] <MarkDude> And also enjoying nature more. I need to post the pics of the bluejays flying up and taking peanuts from my hand
[03:47] <akk> I saw a nice kingsnake on the trail today!
[03:47] <akk> I want to see those jay pictures, though. That sounds great.
[03:47] <akk> The jays here are really skittish.
[19:38] <MarkDude> akk:  https://plus.google.com/u/1/105095769731159704550/posts/X3F954kSJTF
[19:38] <darthrobot> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Mark Terranova - Google+ - The #bluejays are casual enough to fly up and grab peanuts…]
[19:39] <akk> MarkDude: That's so great! Love it.
[19:40] <MarkDude> Using the flash is a cheat of a lazy photog
[19:40] <MarkDude> But it works.
[19:40] <MarkDude> Doing the pics I did to catch water droplets at highspeed would be better
[19:40] <MarkDude> Although - I would have gotten less pics :D
[19:41] <MarkDude> I need to name that bluejay couple, They have sooo many vocals they make
[19:41] <MarkDude> They like to hide inthe trees and chase off the other jay couple
[19:42] <akk> Using the flash makes a lot of sense for birds.
[19:42] <MarkDude> The are quiet to get my  attention
[19:42] <akk> It's the only way to get good hummingbird shots. And they don't seem to mind.
[19:42] <MarkDude> and sorta just nod to me
[19:42] <MarkDude> The other couple makes noises to get paenuts
[19:42] <MarkDude> and that alerts the other couple
[19:42] <akk> We used to have squirrels that were that tame, but haven't had any like that for a few years now.
[19:43] <MarkDude> Their strategy of covering each other as they fly off with nuts works better than others
[19:43] <akk> Back then we discouraged the jays because they stole nuts from the squirrels.
[19:43] <MarkDude> They stash at close location
[19:44] <MarkDude> The smart jays know more noise = more birds
[19:44] <MarkDude> So they let the squirrels be
[19:44]  * MarkDude thinks they like chasing off the doves due to the funny noise they make
[19:45]  * MarkDude wants to get a Gopro cam and make some nature movies
[19:45] <akk> Wouldn't surprise me, jays having a sense of humor and playing games like that.
[19:51]  * MarkDude needs to go water backyard, and see which jays show up first
[19:51] <MarkDude> Also trying to figure what the hummer is trying to say
[19:52] <MarkDude> It flies to blossoms that are almost blooming, as if to say "dont cut this down until I eat it"
[19:52]  * MarkDude gets a fair amount of flowers out of the garden, and that seems to annoy it
[19:53] <akk> The hummers here seem to prefer the feeder to real flowers, though they visit both.
[19:54] <MarkDude> https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/105095769731159704550/albums/5572969802491902545/5572969938776799170
[19:54] <darthrobot> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Nature - Google+]
[19:54] <MarkDude> That is blooming again
[19:54] <MarkDude> And the hummer is excited
[19:54] <MarkDude> Sorta told me to leave it alone
[19:54]  * MarkDude assumes
[19:55] <akk> We have something like that but it didn't bloom this year (or if it did, we missed it).
[19:55] <MarkDude> It needs a really cold spell to bloom
[19:55] <MarkDude> It can be put in fridge to force it I think
[19:56] <MarkDude> Oh the Community link on Ubuntu.com is planned for UDS :) http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-community-1305-ubuntu-website-planning
[19:56] <darthrobot> [R: pad.ubuntu.com] Title: [OpenID Authentication Required]
[19:56]  * MarkDude hopes to have some cool pics of the flowers when they bloom
[20:37] <MarkDude> Cat shut my xchat down
[20:38] <MarkDude> lol. They have helped me send random messages on irc before
[20:38] <MarkDude> And actually managed to highlight folks before using tab complete
[20:39] <MarkDude> tab button is right next warm fan. Laptop = warm to kitteh