[02:58] <ahoneybun> shadeslayer: hello
[06:00] <smartboyhw> Good afternoon Kubuntu people:)
[06:01]  * smartboyhw checks KDE SC 4.10.3
[06:05] <soee> good morning
[07:01] <smartboyhw_> Meh, shadeslayer still hasn't answered my questions (nor did yofel and Darkwing)
[07:10] <valorie> I wish more people were asking questions
[07:13] <smartboyhw_> valorie: Heh
[07:14] <smartboyhw_> Albeit, the users won't
[07:14] <smartboyhw_> Since they aren't voters
[07:14] <valorie> I never thought of doing so
[07:14] <valorie> but really, the council is for all of us
[07:14] <smartboyhw_> and Kubuntu Members would have known who to vote beforehans
[07:15] <smartboyhw_> I simply don't know who to vote, so I askes
[07:15] <valorie> transparency is good
[07:15] <valorie> the more transparent we are, the more people are likely to step up into leadership roles, IMO
[07:17] <valorie> I hope you've started a new tradition
[07:38] <smartboyhw_> Canonical won't like this http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130506 ;P
[07:42] <valorie> heh
[07:43] <Tm_T> smartboyhw_: why not?
[07:43] <Tm_T> Kubuntu is Ubuntu afterall (;
[07:44] <smartboyhw_> Tm_T: I think they don't like to see their own thing squashed and Kubuntu praised:P
[07:44] <Tm_T> they should!
[07:46] <smartboyhw_> Tm_T: :P
[07:49] <valorie> I wouldn't blame Canonical for favoring their own creation over the step-child
[07:50] <valorie> now the ubuntu community is a different question
[07:56] <Tm_T> valorie: indeed
[07:58] <valorie> we can't really worry about what canonical thinks
[07:58] <Tm_T> we don't need to I'd say
[08:01] <valorie> it did hurt when they withdrew support
[08:01] <valorie> but I think we are stronger now
[08:01] <valorie> so they did us a favor
[08:01] <smartboyhw> valorie: ;)
[08:04] <smartboyhw> Actually I don't understand: Why is Jonathan such a popular first name in the West?
[08:05] <smartboyhw> 4 Kubuntu Members have Jonathan has their first name…
[08:05] <valorie> very old name, even found in the Bible
[08:05] <mikhas> exist as a proper name in most European countries
[08:05] <mikhas> (localized versions, of course)
[08:05] <smartboyhw> valorie, mikhas: OK
[08:14] <Riddell> that distrowatch article is fun
[08:15] <smartboyhw> Riddell: Surely yep:)
[08:15] <Riddell> but do I blog it given it slags of ubuntu lots
[08:16] <mikhas> sure you do
[08:16] <Tm_T> smartboyhw: in finnish it's Joonatan
[08:16] <smartboyhw> Tm_T: :O 
[08:17] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: I have half a reply in my inbox
[08:17] <Riddell> smartboyhw: the reason I use my surname as irc nick is because there were so many jonathans at school we all had to use surnames to distinguish
[08:17] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: Let me give you a cup of coffee
[08:18] <smartboyhw> Riddell: Seriously? LOL
[08:18] <shadeslayer> I just finished one, I could use another one
[08:18] <smartboyhw> kubotu: give a cup of coffee to shadeslayer
[08:18] <shadeslayer> surely you mean
[08:18] <shadeslayer> kubotu: order coffee for smartboyhw
[08:18]  * kubotu slides a cup of steamy hot coffee down the bar to smartboyhw.
[08:18] <smartboyhw> kubotu: order espresso for shadeslayer
[08:18]  * kubotu slides espresso down the bar to shadeslayer
[08:19] <shadeslayer> mmm
[08:20] <smartboyhw> kubotu: order breakfast for Riddell
[08:20]  * kubotu slides a cigarette, a cup of hot coffee and a bagel with cream cheese down the bar to Riddell.
[08:20] <valorie> I thought using surnames was standard in UK public schools?
[08:21] <valorie> I'm glad i didn't have to go by "Cowan"
[08:21] <smartboyhw> I wonder what will dinner be for kubotu…
[08:22] <Riddell> valorie: you are mistaking England for the UK
[08:23] <smartboyhw> heh
[08:24] <valorie> ah, not a Scots custom then?
[08:24] <smartboyhw> kubotu: order afternoon tea for smartboyhw
[08:24]  * kubotu slides afternoon tea down the bar to smartboyhw
[08:24] <kubotu> howdy, smartboyhw
[08:24] <smartboyhw> Meh…
[08:24] <valorie> I've never actually been in England
[08:24] <valorie> only Scotland
[08:25]  * smartboyhw will be in England in July
[08:25] <smartboyhw> When you guys are in Akademy
[08:25] <valorie> and in the first pub we were in, I mentioned that this was my first time in Europe
[08:25] <valorie> fellow roared out, you aren't in EUROPE, you're in SCOTLAND!
[08:26] <smartboyhw> valorie: ROFL
[08:26] <valorie> later he bought me a lovely whisky
[08:26] <valorie> mmmm, Jura
[08:28] <Riddell> valorie: that's disappointing
[08:28] <Riddell> http://ubuntugnome.org/  their Follow Us section with links to Facebook, g+ and twitter is where we should be at
[08:29] <valorie> yes, I was surprised
[08:30] <valorie> I thought the Scots in general were more European-minded than the average English
[08:30] <valorie> the Jura was delicious
[08:31] <valorie> that is a really plain page
[08:31] <Riddell> valorie: those of us who plan to vote Yes are, those who vote No less so.  unlike england there's no calls to have a vote to get out of the EU
[08:54] <soee> Riddell, anyone working on 4.10.3 ?
[09:04] <apachelogger> yofel: are you doing frameworks for neon.... cause you've got kdelibs imported...?
[09:09] <valorie> anyway, Riddell, I agree with you on the Follow Us part
[09:10] <valorie> that's the best part of their very plain site
[09:17] <smartboyhw> valorie: Don't forget, they are a new flavour
[09:18] <valorie> oh, yes, I know
[09:18] <smartboyhw> And they don't even have a proper QA lead…
[09:18] <valorie> and I'm sure they will find someone to pretty it up
[09:18] <valorie> info is good, even if plain
[10:55] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: we just have an import, no work on getting it to work AFAIK
[10:58] <shadeslayer> afiestas_: ScottK bug 1171331
[10:58] <shadeslayer> errr
[10:58] <shadeslayer> bug 1177333
[11:14] <apachelogger> Darkwing, shadeslayer, yofel: questions on ML still waiting for replies
[11:16] <smartboyhw> apachelogger: Hey don't keep on telling them:P
[11:35] <apachelogger> yofel: ping
[12:51] <smartboyhw_> yofel: Is the 4.10.3 Raring status page cronjob down?
[13:10] <BluesKaj> Hiya folks
[13:39] <apachelogger> bazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar
[13:40] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: What happened?!
[13:40] <ghostcube> o.O
[13:40] <apachelogger> 2013-05-07 12:44:47 INFO    Unable to import branch because of limitations in Bazaar.
[13:40] <apachelogger> 2013-05-07 12:44:47 INFO    The repository you are fetching from contains submodules, which are not yet supported.
[13:40] <Riddell> apachelogger seems to have worked out how to use a laptop while sleeping, impressive
[13:40] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: :O
[13:40] <smartboyhw_> Riddell: lol
[13:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ^ suggestions?
[13:41] <shadeslayer> ahaha
[13:41] <shadeslayer> ahahahahaha
[13:41]  * shadeslayer jumps off a building
[13:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: also pling
[13:41] <smartboyhw_> shadeslayer: NO!
[13:41] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you can't import submodules
[13:41] <shadeslayer> no git submodule support in bzr
[13:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pling?
[13:42] <apachelogger> no shit sherlok
[13:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: suggestions, we write a cron job on a server to push repos
[13:42] <shadeslayer> or
[13:42] <shadeslayer> import each module individually
[13:43] <shadeslayer> that's all I can think of
[13:43] <apachelogger> what server
[13:43] <shadeslayer> or making Riddell write submodule support
[13:43] <apachelogger> also there are no modules
[13:43] <apachelogger> there may have been in the history
[13:43] <shadeslayer> yeah so
[13:43] <smartboyhw_> shadeslayer: Good one
[13:43] <apachelogger> which makes the fail even more bullshit
[13:43] <shadeslayer> that breaks bzr
[13:43] <apachelogger> we should just stop using launchpad
[13:44] <shadeslayer> or just make Riddell fix bzr :P
[13:44] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: That's a wild suggestion. Let Riddell fix bzr.
[13:45] <smartboyhw_> So Riddell, fix it;P
[13:48] <apachelogger> yes
[13:48] <apachelogger> let's spend engineering time on dead software
[13:49] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: Dead?
[13:50] <apachelogger> bzr is on life support
[13:50] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: What's replacing it then?
[13:50] <apachelogger> nothing
[13:50] <shadeslayer> mercurial
[13:50] <apachelogger> it's expect to rot until broken
[13:51] <smartboyhw_> apachelogger: !?
[13:51] <apachelogger> what do I know
[13:51] <apachelogger> what do I care
[13:51] <Riddell> "maintinance mode"
[13:51] <apachelogger> there's no such thing considering it can't evne import git repos if there are submodules in the history
[13:51] <apachelogger> THE HISTORY
[14:22] <smartboyhw_> kubotu: newversion homerun 0.2.3
[14:22] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1177399
[14:23] <Riddell> when did that appear?
[14:23] <smartboyhw_> Riddell: Planet KDE
[14:23] <smartboyhw_> 12:32 UTC
[14:23] <smartboyhw_> Today
[14:53] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[14:58] <yofel> smartboyhw: script looks running to me, maybe there was a network issue?
[14:58] <yofel> apachelogger: pong
[14:58] <smartboyhw> yofel: Hmn
[14:58] <yofel> apachelogger: and as shadeslayer said, there's only an import for frameworks. And I don't really plan to do any neon packaging until 4.11 is out
[14:59] <yofel> not saying that we can't change that
[15:02] <yofel> smartboyhw: "Last updated on 2013-05-07 15:00 (UTC)" - that was just now
[15:03] <smartboyhw> yofel: OKp
[15:04] <smartboyhw> yofel: But some of the successfully built packages are showing res
[15:05] <smartboyhw> s/res/red/
[15:05] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "yofel: But some of the successfully built packages are showing red"
[15:05] <yofel> red means there were issues, not that it failed to build
[15:05] <yofel> that actually says failed to build
[15:05] <yofel> (see rocs)
[15:06] <yofel> in kate's case it would be the list-missing output
[15:07] <yofel> weird bug of the day: lp 1177329
[15:41] <genii-around> Does anyone know when Saucy will be added to kubuntu PPAs ?
[15:58] <yofel> genii-around: define "added"?
[15:58] <yofel> if you mean available in apt: as soon as someone uploads something for saucy to the ppa
[15:59] <Quintasan> lol wat
[15:59] <genii-around> yofel: Ah, OK. I just went from 13.04 to the 13.10 development version, noted there was nothing in the PPAs yet
[16:32] <apachelogger> yofel: wip
[16:32] <apachelogger> albiet launchpad is crap
[16:32] <apachelogger> so I am writing tooling to do the recipe building outside launchpad
[16:39] <Riddell> rick_timmis: did you get anywhere with your watchfile watcher?
[17:08] <rick_timmis> Riddell: Not really, sorry. I got side tracked and it dropped down my todo list. 
[17:09] <seaLne> do we really still need lots of cvs things in kubuntu-full package? just installed it for the first time in ages on a pc for parentals
[17:10] <rick_timmis> Riddell: I feel I have got lots of big gaps in my knowledge of Debian packaging and the finer aspects of APT, plus my day to day work load has gotten ahead of me.
[17:12] <Riddell> seaLne: cvs things?
[17:13] <seaLne> including cvs package and a few utils for cvs stuff
[17:13] <Riddell> rick_timmis: fair enoughski, let me know if you think you want to do other things in kubuntu, I hear ahoneybun iscracking on with docs
[17:13] <Riddell> seaLne: apt-cache show kubuntu-full doesn't list anything cvs
[17:14] <seaLne> looks like its some other package that pulls it in though
[17:14] <Riddell> oh kdesdk-scripts
[17:15] <Riddell> yeah that should go
[17:16] <seaLne> it installed a lot of dev stuff i wasn't expecting, i'd thought it would be just like all of kde programs
[17:16] <seaLne> not to sure what the usecase for -full is
[17:16] <rick_timmis> Riddell: Probably best I sit quiet for a while, once I get back in the groove, I will take a look at packaging, as that will probably help fill out the gaps I mentioned
[17:17] <Riddell> rick_timmis: plenty to package:)
[17:17] <Riddell> seaLne: it's mostly a facet of ours seeds rather than something I'd expect people to need
[17:18] <seaLne> ah
[17:18] <Riddell> you can try kde-full which is the debian meta package for kde fanboys
[17:19] <Riddell> vHanda: /etc/sysctl.d/30-nepomuk-inotify-limit.conf
[17:26] <vHanda> Riddell: thanks
[17:35] <shadeslayer> ScottK: bug 1177333
[18:09] <Riddell> ScottK: we were discussing srus and how they can get blocked.  is there an argument for allowing them into -proposed automatically and let ~ubuntu-sru review them during the7 day review period?
[18:09] <Riddell> or even only at the end ofit?
[18:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think users who use proposed will not appreciate preventable breakage
[18:13] <Riddell> do such users exist?
[18:13] <Riddell> -proposed is intended as a testing place, if you use it you have to be prepared to test
[18:15] <apachelogger> !sru
[18:15] <apachelogger> one of these days I'll start using bookmarks :S
[18:47] <ahoneybun> hey Riddell
[18:49] <Riddell> buenos noches
[19:02] <ahoneybun> have you seen the Docs so far?
[19:02] <Riddell> ahoneybun: nope, what's new?
[19:02] <ahoneybun> images, uploaded them to the wiki, made them thumbnails
[19:02] <ahoneybun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail
[19:07] <Riddell> ooh pretty pictures on /Basics
[19:07] <ahoneybun> thanks ;)
[19:08] <ahoneybun> I'm still trying to get the format right
[19:08] <ahoneybun> like where to put the index, and table of contents
[19:09] <Riddell> depends on how long it is
[19:09] <Riddell> if it's just the 6 items it is not then put the whole index on every page
[19:09] <Riddell> but if it gets much longer it'll need to be only on the front page with next/previous links?
[19:09] <ahoneybun> So should I put the index on every page?
[19:10] <ahoneybun> or leave it as "See also" on the bottom
[19:10] <Riddell> see also doesn't make much sense if it just lists all the pages
[19:10] <ahoneybun> yea I'm working on that now
[19:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: seen http://losca.blogspot.com.es/2013/05/qt-5-in-debian-and-ubuntu-patches.html ?
[19:15] <ahoneybun> yep
[19:16] <ahoneybun> I have all the pages made so there are no dead links right now
[19:19] <ahoneybun> Riddell: so how should it be?
[19:36] <Riddell> ahoneybun: hmm
[19:36] <Riddell> I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics is good wit the page contents at the top and the global contents at the bottom
[19:36] <Riddell> just don't call it "see also"
[19:37] <Riddell> that suggests it's selected pages rather than all contents
[19:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/homerun/+bug/1177399
[19:44] <shadeslayer> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kscreen/+bug/1177333 while you're at it :P
[20:05] <soee> good evening
[21:18] <ahoneybun> Riddell: what would I call it then
[21:24] <Riddell> ahoneybun: just contents?
[21:26] <ahoneybun> the see also part, me and my friend were thinking of talking about naming it "Overview of Chapters
[21:26] <ahoneybun> thinking of naming it
[21:27] <ahoneybun> "Overview of Chapters"
[21:47] <ahoneybun> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics
[21:59] <valorie> ahoneybun: looking better and better
[21:59] <valorie> the KDE Menu Editor appears freakishly large to me
[21:59] <valorie> however
[22:00] <ahoneybun> Yes I saw that valorie
[22:00] <valorie> I agree with Riddell, though - "Contents" is better than "ov erview of chapters"
[22:01] <valorie> this isn't a book, so we don't need to introduce the concept of chapters
[22:01] <ahoneybun> but with the <<TableOfContents>>  it put "Contents" there 
[22:02] <ahoneybun> so no links to the other parts of the Docs?
[22:04] <valorie> yes, there always have to be links to other parts
[22:04] <valorie> or people will never find them
[22:06] <ahoneybun> but then its 
[22:06] <ahoneybun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics
[22:09] <valorie> with the moinmoin wiki, that's about the best you can do I think
[22:10] <valorie> breadcrumbs instead would be cool, but .....
[22:14] <ahoneybun> agreed
[22:14] <ahoneybun> on the breadcrumbs anyway
[22:15] <ahoneybun> well I could make the links myself and not use the <<TableOfContents>> 
[22:15] <valorie> so far you are doing a great job
[22:16] <valorie> I wrote down some of my thoughts the other night after i shut down irc
[22:16] <valorie> do you want me to email them to you?
[22:16] <valorie> got distracted and never looked up your email address yesterday
[22:30] <ahoneybun> sure send them over valorie :)
[22:45]  * Phonon looks at valorie
[22:47] <ahoneybun> valorie: I'm trying to be very precise
[22:51] <valorie> ahoneybun: that's two releases ago!
[22:53]  * valorie looks at Phonon
[22:57] <ahoneybun> lol
[22:58] <ahoneybun> you know what I mean!
[22:58] <ahoneybun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics
[23:05] <valorie> yes. :-)
[23:08] <ahoneybun> yes what?
[23:11] <valorie> yes, I know what you mean
[23:11] <valorie> too scattered atm to edit
[23:11] <ahoneybun> lol yea 
[23:13] <ahoneybun> I'm thinking of making a new kubuntu-docs, in a new format basically just a folder with text files with the same text from the wiki pages I made and upload them to lp
[23:15] <valorie> we could do that each release
[23:15] <valorie> rather than updating them, just regenerate
[23:15] <valorie> also it's possible to create the xml/docbook from wiki
[23:16] <valorie> not sure about moin, though
[23:16] <valorie> that's how our amarok userdocs are created
[23:16] <valorie> dunno if the KDE docs people love it or not, but they do the scripting/fixing
[23:32] <ahoneybun> I think there is a way to import a xml into a wiki
[23:36] <valorie> yes, but it can be done the other way too
[23:36] <valorie> userbase > docbook works for KDE
[23:38] <ahoneybun> so make userdocs from the wiki?
[23:53] <valorie> sorry, dinner
[23:54] <ahoneybun>  ok
[23:54] <valorie> what we did was create the manual in userbase
[23:54] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[23:54] <valorie> then before release, check all the things, and ask the docteam to pull a new docbook from it
[23:54] <valorie> so we aren't keeping two sets of docs
[23:55] <ahoneybun> so the docs were in userbase and then you pulled it from there and then made a docbook from it