[00:03]  * mwhudson missed out
[00:06] <chilts> you can say some other greeting, or even tzag
[20:30] <ajmitch> morning
[20:32] <hads> morning
[20:59] <chilts> morning
[21:40] <ojwb> morning
[21:58] <ibeardslee> morning
[22:23] <hads> I wish I could pip install xapian :)
[22:23] <mwhudson> lxc-create ftw
[22:24] <ojwb> hads: sounds like that needs someone who knows what "pip" is to implement it
[22:24] <hads> heh
[22:25] <hads> http://nomad.coop/blog/installing-xapian-in-virtualenv-django/
[22:26] <mwhudson> pip is bad software :(
[22:28]  * ojwb boggles at a blog post from july 2012 installing xapian 1.0.16
[22:29] <hads> Yeah it was from a script found somewhere else, I'm not sure why whoever wrote it didn't update the version.
[22:29] <hads> virtualenv is better than system wide libs and I'm not going to create a container for every site I run.
[22:33] <ojwb> i can see virtualenv is handy for development where you might need to model the versions on different servers on one dev box, but for deployment, don't you end up having to put significant effort into checking if there are security fixes for any of the versions in any of your virtualenvs?
[22:37] <hads> Yeah that is a valid concern. I haven't found a better way yet.
[22:44] <G> morning
[22:46] <G> ojwb: surely you would only have to check onthe dev virtualenv, and then compare/update your test/qa/deploy envs based on the dev env? ;)
[22:48] <ojwb> if you have a standard set of versions across all the deployments
[22:48] <ojwb> which I'm lead to believe often isn't the case
[22:49] <ojwb> but if you have a standard set of versions, virtualenv doesn't seem to buy you a lot
[22:49] <hads> Indeed
[22:49] <ojwb> but website devops really isn't my area
[22:50] <G> ojwb: it'd depend on how active you were developing, but hmmm
[22:50] <hads> To upgrade system wide SQLAlchemy I may have to look at 10 apps to make sure they aren't using deprecated APIs
[22:51] <hads> Which I would need to do if I want to deploy sparkly new app which uses some API from the very latest SQLAlchemy version.
[22:52] <hads> Interesting comment on this page; http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/python/SysadminVirtualenvView?showcomments with a simple command to find all install Python eggs