[07:22] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:31] <diplo> Morning all
[07:31] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[07:38] <diplo> morning brobostigon
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:55] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:56] <Myrtti> Ascension day today :-P public holiday in Finland
[08:59] <DJones> No public holiday here for it, unusually, we haven't got a Church service, there's normally something arrange
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: same in .nl
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> though I wonder why.. nobody even goes to church anymore
[09:06] <mungbean> nobody?
[09:07] <Myrtti> my hometown is in big trouble because the church is way oversized for the current congregation apart from confirmation Sundays
[09:07] <Myrtti> when a lot of relatives of the kids attend
[09:07] <mungbean> i know many churches with year on year doubling of numbers
[09:07] <mungbean> >1000 ppls etc
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> We don't have that in .nl
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Only declining numbers
[09:08] <mungbean> well there is a trend of late that only christians are attending church
[09:08] <Myrtti> numbers have been going down ever since you could resign the church officially easier too
[09:09] <mungbean> as opposed to culture dictating church attendance
[09:09] <MooDoo> lots of church number are dwindling, people just don't need it any more
[09:09] <JamesTait> Several months ago we had a visit from a friendly old man, who turned out to be a Jehova's Witness.  I humoured him for a while and thought that would be the end of it.  Now he visits every week, around Wednesday lunchtime, and I make my excuses and leave my wife to chat with him.
[09:09] <mungbean> so we are just seeing truer numbers
[09:09] <JamesTait> So we don't go to church, the church comes to us.
[09:09] <mungbean> except they are a cult
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: draw (in blood) a pentagram on the door, and open it naked
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: then shout back into the house "Honey, LUNCH just arrived!"
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: see if he ever returns :)
[09:10] <directhex> there is a strong correlation between belief in a deity, and national education standards
[09:10] <directhex> the US is a huge outlier there, for having okay education but high levels of religiousness
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> directhex: lack of belief, I guess?
[09:10] <DJones> I wouldn't say it was commonplace in the uk, there aren't significant numbers of new young families/people starting to attend, its normally older people who are regulars and as they get older, the number of regulars declines due to age
[09:10] <JamesTait> I told him quite plainly the first time he called that I don't believe in a creator.  I think he thinks because I haven't told him to get lost, he can convert me.
[09:10] <mungbean> directhex: also the poor/rich have different levels of belief. beware of attributing causation where there is only correlation
[09:11] <directhex> MartijnVdS, negative correlation is still a correlation
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> directhex: sure
[09:11] <directhex> mungbean, and the poor/rich have different levels of education, especially in "poor" countries!
[09:11] <directhex> mungbean, also, i carefully said "correlation" not "causation"
[09:11] <mungbean> yes
[09:12] <MooDoo> directhex: did I read that right as in if you believe you have a better education?  sorry got a bit of a headache so not thinking straight
[09:12]  * mungbean has a first class science degree
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no that's the "negative correlation" bit
[09:12] <directhex> MooDoo, countries where people are well educated usually have fewer people who attend religious service than countries where people are poorly educated (and/or poor)
[09:13] <directhex> with the usa as an exception to that
[09:13] <MooDoo> people are realising you don't actually need to be religious to get on in life
[09:13] <mungbean> well God isn't an ATM
[09:14] <mungbean> except in africa, then pastors tend to preach wealth and prosperity ...
[09:14] <popey> Indeed. ATMs exist.
[09:14] <MooDoo> +1 popey
[09:14] <popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/9/4314844/nokia-asha-501-new-platform-launch interesting
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: I'm going to need proof of that
[09:15] <mungbean> lost an hour of my morning as i foolishly booted into windows yesterday to use vmware
[09:15]  * popey points at his bank statement from the past.. surely you believe this written proof from the prophets of "Santander"!?
[09:15] <mungbean> then ...installing 50 of 72
[09:15] <MooDoo> vmware o/
[09:15] <popey> eww
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: All bow to Saint Ander! :)
[09:15] <popey> ☻
[09:18] <MooDoo> mungbean: that's the only reason I have a partition on my laptop for windows and vmware
[09:19] <mungbean> yes, ubuntu and vsphere OS
[09:19] <mungbean> i prefer that to using VMs but today it bites me
[09:19] <mungbean> has anyone seen instances of snapshotting a VM causes processes inside the vm to crash?
[09:20] <MooDoo> mungbean: well i'm using esxi 3.5 but the client is only for windows
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> http://resme.me/3ub21d.jpg
[09:21] <MooDoo> having a good day then MartijnVdS :)
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you know it! ;)
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> Was anyone outside last night? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22460716
[09:27] <diplo> I was, but didn't see it :)
[09:29] <MooDoo> I didn't even know about it :(
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nobody did until it happened :)
[09:35] <mungbean> lol
[09:35] <mungbean> i was up till gone 4am
[09:36] <mungbean> not outside though
[09:36] <mungbean> not sure why it made the news
[09:36] <mungbean> doesn't it happen a lot?
[09:37] <diplo> Quite a bit, but not as noticable I guess as that
[09:37] <mungbean> i wonder where it landed
[09:39] <popey> people were tweeting about it last night
[10:04] <Wobbo> I would like to install the NVidia because the open source replacement is not going well at Asus eee1215N. Only the old way you could install this software no longer exists? In addition, my Wifi is also not good, this is an old problem. This problem is only for when you use the closed / commercial source. Alth very surprising that Ubuntu does as anti closed / commercial source. Can anyone help me?
[10:06] <bigcalm> Mornin' all
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: what's "the old way"?
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: there has been one "proper" way for years now
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: (and that's through jockey(-gtk))
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[10:07] <Wobbo> Old way is 12.04 and 12.10.
[10:07] <Wobbo> Sorry
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: it's still the same in 13.04
[10:09] <Wobbo> Yes and no,
[10:15] <Wobbo> At first, the standard was not closed / commercial source but now.
[10:16] <popey> eh?
[10:23] <Wobbo> So 13.04 is using the closedsource version for my Wi-fi instead of the opensource version.
[10:24] <popey> depends on your wifi card
[10:24] <popey> very little changed in terms of what drivers get used between 12.04, 12.10 and 13.04
[10:25] <popey> it's mostly just "newer stuff" in the newer releases
[10:27] <Wobbo> How to uninstall the current closedsource software Wi-Fi
[10:27] <popey> depens on your wireless card. what make/model is it?
[10:27] <Wobbo> And how to install NV?
[10:27] <popey> nv isn't maintained anymore
[10:28] <popey> nouveau (open source) or nvidia (closed) are
[10:30] <MooDoo> i just used the closed source drivers for nvidia from the additional drivers section of the software sources :D
[10:32] <diddledan> brb, switching machines
[10:33] <Wobbo> Thanks
[10:47] <SuperMatt> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/235237/did-the-queen-just-resurrect-the-snoopers-charter <- more reasons to ignore slashdot - they don't actually know anything about The Queen. TBH though, I struggle to find a news site that is at least as fully featured, without the idiocy
[10:47] <SuperMatt> it's the daily mail or tech
[10:47] <SuperMatt> *of
[10:48] <BigRedS> I tried HN for a bit, but that's even more fanboisim and even less news... :(
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> arstechnica is OK
[10:49] <mgdm> HN is OK if you only look at the links
[10:49] <mgdm> Do *not* read the comments
[10:49] <BigRedS> haha
[10:49] <popey> BigRedS: out of interested (wrt your comment on czajkowski's G+ post) where did you hear lament of Ubuntu server? Was it in an ubuntu channel or outside our "space"?
[10:49] <mgdm> (which is good advice for much of the internet)
[10:49]  * popey tickles mgdm with a spreadsheet :0
[10:49] <popey> ☻
[10:49] <SuperMatt> for instance, when the new packaging system was announced to be in development, the readers all jumped up and down and said "why are you ditching apt?" without reading that apt wouldn't be ditched
[10:50] <mgdm> popey: I gave it a go to discover it was dead :-) left it charging overnight, will do it at lunch
[10:50] <SuperMatt> mgdm: HN?
[10:50] <mgdm> SuperMatt: Hacker News - news.ycombinator.com
[10:50] <popey> booo
[10:50] <SuperMatt> ah right
[10:50] <BigRedS> popey: it's the common grumble at work currently. I think we hit a couple of daft bugs and the assumption is that this si because attention's switched away from the server and towards desktops
[10:50] <popey> yeah, i use hn now and then
[10:50] <SuperMatt> I've noticed that ars has been getting a little traction recently, I might start peeking at that more and mroe
[10:50] <popey> BigRedS: difficult given separate teams work on each really
[10:51] <BigRedS> we're also institutionally afraid of The Cloud, so that's all sort-of viewed as a bit of a distraction from 'proper' servers
[10:51] <BigRedS> yeah, I found it hard to imagine anyone being pulled off the server and given work on a DE...
[10:51] <mgdm> I've come around to the mindset that all my machines are disposable
[10:51] <mgdm> doubt I'll ever deploy something on bare metal again
[10:51] <mgdm> "that's not working? kill it, rebuild it"
[10:52] <BigRedS> mgdm: yeah, that's one of the benefits I've been trying to impress upon the people who make decisions here
[10:53] <mgdm> my dev server is a Vagrant box built with Puppet, too
[10:53] <mgdm> so if it breaks it's dead easy to start again
[11:00] <popey> BigRedS: have you seen the "please dont call it cloud" thread on the debian list?
[11:01] <Laney> rms ♥
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: link? :)
[11:02] <popey> hah
[11:03] <popey> http://lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2013/04/msg00032.html
[11:03] <popey> it's a big thread
[11:05] <directhex> i am tempted to reply to that thread with a link to a chromium extension i use, which replaces all in-text instances of "the cloud" with "my butt"
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> directhex: does it also do this: http://xkcd.com/37/
[11:05] <directhex> "I agree with Richard and would like to add that having a philosophy about "my butt" may be futile"
[11:06] <mgdm> That ext caused hilarity recently when someone I know did a talk at ac onf called 'Keeping the cloud in check', which he kept on getting told was obscene
[11:06] <mgdm> turned out the guy who thought it was obscene had that extension and forgot about it
[11:06] <BigRedS> popey: ooh, no, I've been ignoring debian-users for a while now...
[11:07] <BigRedS> popey: A few paragraphs in, that could be written by one of the directors here :(
[11:07] <BigRedS> Oh. RMS.
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> root mean square?
[11:09] <directhex> "I believe it is really important that you understand it fully, so that you can discuss "freedom in my butt" in general"
[11:12]  * brobostigon points at his mouth, and says, insert coffee here please. :)
[11:15] <MooDoo> brobostigon: just drinking mine now.....
[11:15] <MooDoo> :p
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> bah, coffee
[11:15]  * MartijnVdS makes some more tea
[11:15] <brobostigon> yummy, yes please.
[11:15]  * brobostigon makes some coffee
[11:19] <directhex> jesus christ RMS is a moron. he is utterly incapable of comprehending any computing concept from post-1980
[11:20]  * brobostigon slurps, :)
[11:20] <mgdm> does he still use that toy computer because it's the only thing in the world with open firmware?
[11:20] <diddledan> popcorn time?
[11:20] <mgdm> I wonder if he thinks that the hardware is entirely innocent :-)
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: he doesn't care about closed hardware.. as long as he has enough specs to write the software
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: also.. his "free software" ideals don't extend to documents in "human" languages
[11:21] <mgdm> so the hardware could be backdoored from here to the moon and he'd not care :-)
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> so documentation? out.
[11:24] <Myrtti> yay new keyboard
[11:26] <brobostigon> :)
[12:52] <mungbean> using rhn, how can i define that a server uses 6.2 release only and not 6.x (yum upgrade will update it to 6.4)
[12:54]  * popey blinks
[12:55] <mungbean> i could ask in redhat but they aren't as friendly o_0
[12:57] <JamesTait> mungbean, you're not asking Ubuntu questions in there are you? That might explain it. :-P
[12:58] <mungbean> :P
[12:58] <diplo> centos channel is awful
[12:58] <mungbean> nah just relationship advice
[13:00] <diplo> How about setting in the repo files to release=5.5&arch=x86&repo=os ?
[13:00] <diplo> When using vault.centos.org you have to manually set the version you're using
[13:01] <diplo> Good example maybe, not found an offical resource yet though
[13:01] <diplo> http://linuximagination.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/upgrading-centos-54-to-55not-latest.html
[13:08] <brobostigon> wow 25mph SW wind,
[13:14] <awilkins> The change to nautilus that means that typing starts a search, rather than selects an item in the current view, is really really annoying me, can it be configured to go back to the old way of doing it? (I presume so, I haven't noticed it on boxes I've upgraded to raring, just boxes that I've installed fresh)
[13:16] <SuperMatt> awilkins: I'm not sure it can be. I've actually found that to be extremely useful as it seems to now be searching subfolders too. So now I just go in to my videos folder, type xx and it'll find the prons I want from a subdir
[13:17] <awilkins> Yeah, it sucks for me because I have a vast hierarchy of files and it really makes things chunder
[13:17] <awilkins> We're talking folders with 20,000 files nested in them
[13:17] <diddledan> that's a lot of pron
[13:17] <awilkins> 20,000 videos (of any kind ;-) ) would be too big for most hard drives
[13:18] <awilkins> Mostly source code
[13:18] <mgdm> single hard drives perhaps, RAID arrays no
[13:19] <awilkins> I'll have to look for the option later, had not reflected that my upgraded machines aren't doing it but my new install is
[13:20] <awilkins> If it's one of these things where you have to enter cryptic dconf commands or edit an XML file I shall be vexed. Flippin' Gnome and their "Hide the useful stuff from people in case they use it"...
[13:20] <popey> awilkins: i agree
[13:20] <popey> i hate the new way nautilus works
[13:20] <awilkins> No in-pane tree expansion
[13:20] <popey> \o/ GNOME
[13:21] <awilkins> Stupid typing == search rather than navigation
[15:25] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what was the script that you used that generated a pretty diagram of a website's bottle necks?
[15:26] <christel> Bottled by Bell.
[15:26] <christel> (i made that up)
[15:26] <mgdm> that sounds like a perfume
[15:26] <bigcalm> christel: \o/
[15:26] <christel> hullu bigcalm!
[15:26] <christel> mgdm: would you wear it? :)
[15:27] <mgdm> I'd think about it, but then I'd probably bottle it
[15:28] <christel> haha
[15:31] <mgdm> how goes it, christel? Not seen you around these parts for a while
[15:32] <christel> it goes well! :)
[15:32] <mgdm> \o/
[15:50] <czajkowski> BigRedS: you're brave to reply to that unusal thread :)
[15:52] <AlanBell> bigcalm: the thing that does this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png
[15:52] <bigcalm> AlanBell: yes
[15:53] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm looking at webgrind, same thing?
[15:53] <AlanBell> xhprof
[15:54] <bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks
[15:54] <AlanBell> http://phpmaster.com/the-need-for-speed-profiling-with-xhprof-and-xhgui/
[15:54] <BigRedS> czajkowski: I was puzzled, it seemed a reasonable question :)
[15:56] <czajkowski> could just back things up to the cloud for the most part
[15:56] <bigcalm> AlanBell: the page helps a lot, thanks again. Looks like I'll be tinkering with it later
[15:56] <czajkowski> and if you are a technican of any sort you should have another HD
[15:56] <czajkowski> alternaitvely borrow one.
[15:56] <czajkowski> but not sending the device back...
[15:56] <bigcalm> So. How do people feel about dressing up for the RAT in September? :)
[15:56] <czajkowski> negative :)
[15:56] <bigcalm> Haha
[15:57] <czajkowski> gonna be a fun night
[15:57] <christel> dressing up eh? :)
[15:57] <czajkowski> bunch of the LUG folks are coming also
[15:57] <bigcalm> Cool
[15:57] <bigcalm> czajkowski: get them added to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/?
[15:58] <czajkowski> they won't :)
[15:58] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[15:58] <BigRedS> czajkowski: I did nearly check how much free S3 you get, but then I realised that I wasn't that interested
[16:00] <christel> i shall add myself to that seeing how i have procured tickets a while bakc
[16:00] <czajkowski> tbh the replies to the service desk were rather rude tbh - they've offered to collect it and fix it, like anything though evne when I sent my machine back  you have to accomdate the request if you want your stuff fixed
[16:00] <czajkowski> christel: w00p
[16:13] <popey> Uh-oh!
[16:13] <popey> overhearing the "christening" conversation going on in the kitchen
[16:15] <mgdm> You're mishearing. THey're inviting christel round.
[16:15] <MooDoo> chritstel is having a party and we're all invited? ;)
[16:15] <christel> for christeling?
[16:15] <mgdm> yes!
[16:16] <mgdm> or something
[16:16] <popey> haha
[16:16] <mgdm> I can't quite hear popey's kitchen conversations from here
[16:16] <bigcalm> Hehe
[16:16] <christel> mgdm: you're a rubbish spy!
[16:17] <mgdm> christel: the mic is in a different ro*AHEM*
[16:18] <bigcalm> I want to report an issue that the issue tracker is sending duplicate emails. Except that will result in me getting duplicate emails
[16:37] <czajkowski> popey: is that a bad conversation :)
[16:38] <popey> depends
[16:38] <popey> Azelphur: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/weve-got-a-butterfly-labs-bitcoin-miner-and-its-pretty-darn-fast/
[16:39] <Azelphur> fun
[16:41] <popey> czajkowski: we came to an agreeable solution which is the kids will choose what they want when they're old enough
[16:42] <czajkowski> nods
[16:42] <popey> sam started asking about it today because one of his friends must have brought it up I guess
[16:42] <czajkowski> I asuumed it wasn't about your kids
[16:42] <popey> yeah, it is
[16:42] <popey> Sam started asking more questions and whether he should be or not
[16:42] <czajkowski> ahh
[16:42] <popey> i dont believe 6 is old enough to make the decision
[16:43] <czajkowski> no
[16:43] <czajkowski> not really considering you only make your comunion when you're about 8 and that;s only just enough time to undersand it all, and 12 for confirmation
[16:44] <neuro> ah communion and confirmation ...
[16:44]  * neuro remembers them well
[16:45] <neuro> i bet ubuntubhoy does as well </enforce-stereotype> :)
[16:45] <AlanBell> anyone following the discussion about reinventing the package manager wheel?
[16:45] <czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkByAkAdZs&feature=youtu.be <-- favourite add I keep rewatching
[16:45] <AlanBell> the bit I don't get is the problem of apps overwiting their own code
[16:45] <AlanBell> why is that a terrible thing?
[16:46] <neuro> because it's naughty?
[16:46] <AlanBell> why?
[16:46] <neuro> because it is?
[16:46] <neuro> i basically have no argument here
[16:46] <popey> because you test something that says "I wont do naughty things"
[16:46] <popey> and then it self modifies to do those naughty things
[16:46] <neuro> popey++
[16:47] <neuro> polymorphic code \o/
[16:47] <popey> allows programs to self-update
[16:47] <popey> See Facebook on android
[16:47] <AlanBell> hmm, so to avoid the problem of apps being able to overwite their own code we currently use sudo dpkg -i foo.deb , which allows the installation scripts of foo.deb to overwrite important stuff
[16:47] <popey> well they cant now because they dont have rights
[16:47] <neuro> but is that downloading new support data within its sandbox, or is it modifying the apk?
[16:48] <popey> not sure how fb does it, but it's "bad"
[16:48] <jacobw> DEBIAN/md5sums?
[16:48] <popey> such that google says so
[16:48] <neuro> facebook doing something "bad"? NOOOOOO!
[16:48] <Azelphur> popey: you reminded me I needed to call BFL about mine, just did it :p
[16:48] <AlanBell> I can see that it isn't brilliant, however installing as root seems worse
[16:48] <popey> AlanBell: but we curate those debs
[16:48] <Azelphur> the guy on the phone sounds a bit lost lol
[16:48] <popey> there's a difference
[16:48] <Azelphur> but, apparently I'mma be one of the first to get one
[16:49]  * neuro points at package signing too
[16:49] <jacobw> Maintainer scripts shouldn't change any files other than the package's conffiles
[16:49] <popey> when debs install the install scripts run as root, which is bad mmkay
[16:49] <popey> you don't want random fart apps to have root on your phone
[16:49] <neuro> maybe *you* don't
[16:50] <popey> I don't. No.
[16:50] <neuro> fart
[16:50] <neuro> you now have the word 'fart' in my head, cheers
[16:50] <neuro> fart
[16:50] <jacobw> I don't want to be the guy who let the app the bosses kid downloaded steal his credit card details
[16:50] <mgdm> it's OK, you won't need apps for that, now that the Onion have released fartscroll.js
[16:50] <neuro> mgdm: faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart?
[16:50] <mgdm> neuro: http://theonion.github.io/fartscroll.js/
[16:50] <AlanBell> yeah, I would rather that the install scripts run sandboxed
[16:51] <mgdm> neuro: make window small and scroll
[16:51] <neuro> jacobw: apps that enable cc payments outwith the app's ecosystem should burn in hell
[16:51] <neuro> mgdm: EPIC
[16:52] <neuro> love the comments too
[16:52] <AlanBell> jacobw: yeah, but maintainer scripts *can* do whatever they want
[16:52] <AlanBell> maybe this new format won't have stuff in the bundle that gets executed
[16:52] <AlanBell> as part of the installation that is
[16:52] <popey> exactly
[16:53] <popey> basically it should contain a zip (or whatever) containing the app, and a manifest which tells apparmour what the app is allowed to do
[16:53] <neuro> mgdm: actually the comments remind me of some random commit comments i've been making for the last couple of days
[16:53] <mgdm> heh
[16:53] <mgdm> neuro: http://whatthecommit.com/
[16:53] <jacobw> They can, but Debian policy disallows maintainer scripts that change files from other packages or files in the package that aren't conffiles
[16:54] <jacobw> It's a complete policy, it just doesn't accodomate for things like Webmin
[16:54] <AlanBell> indeed, so when installing a random .deb the first thing you do is give it root access to your system before you figure out what is in it
[16:54] <AlanBell> or you unzip it and read the scripts
[16:55] <AlanBell> or you get it from a trusted repository
[16:55] <jacobw> That's true, but that's the point of the policy, you won't get a maintainer script that changes files it shouldn't from Debian
[16:55] <neuro> mgdm: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-09%20at%2017.54.10.png
[16:56] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: which of my stereotypes ?
[16:56] <AlanBell> nom nom doggy noms http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-plans-dogfood-capable-phones-by-the-end-of-May-1859877.html
[16:56] <mgdm> neuro: ffs :P
[16:57] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: i have (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that you were raised RC and thus subjected to communion and confirmation
[16:57] <neuro> mgdm: ffs? :)
[16:57] <mgdm> neuro: crap commit messages do my head in :-)
[16:57] <neuro> the commit itself was relatively self explanatory
[16:57] <neuro> also i'm really the only one using that repo
[16:58] <mgdm> my 'favourite' one of late consisted of one line saying 'weird', while committing one useful change to a CSS file, a bunch of random reindenting to another CSS file, and a zero-byte a.out file
[16:58] <mgdm> People who git commit -am "weird" without doing a git diff first ought to be launched into the sun
[16:58] <neuro> nice
[16:58] <neuro> yes, i agree
[16:59] <ali1234> i love how ever bzr project has thousands of commits called "temp commit" and similar
[16:59] <neuro> "Sorry, this commit history took too long to generate." Gee, thanks github
[16:59] <mgdm> I'm not fond of git merge commits either, but I can live with them I suppose
[16:59] <ali1234> github just went down btw
[16:59] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: nope - was raised without religion - Catholic dad & Jewish mother, went to a non-dom (Protestant) school, and lived in an area with a majority Asian population. To me all religion is bollocks
[17:00] <neuro> lucky sod :)
[17:01] <neuro> good catch on non-dom ... at the high school I went to (the Gregory's Girl one), it always amused me we got carted off to the Kirk every easter, and you got funny looks if you wanted to stay behind
[17:01] <neuro> ali1234: seems ok here, apart from not being able to look at a git repo's commit history
[17:02] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: I think it's a Scottish disease though.
[17:02] <neuro> aye
[17:02] <neuro> my folks were pretty good about it but i was still going to chapel til i was 18
[17:02] <neuro> (altar boy, ha!)
[17:03] <mgdm> the graphs on https://status.github.com/ do show a bit of a spike
[17:03] <neuro> then i made some Religious Life Choices
[17:03] <neuro> so yeah, popey, make em wait til they're 18 :
[17:03] <neuro> :)
[17:03] <neuro> blimeh
[17:03] <neuro> spikage
[17:04] <neuro> i need to build something like that at my new gig
[17:04] <popey> indeed, 16/18 or thereabouts sounds fair :D
[17:04] <popey> when they can do whatever they like and not actually ask me
[17:04] <neuro> "leave me aloooone!" :)
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> at `1
[17:05] <popey> hopefully by then all religions will be eradicated and the world will be more enlightened anyway ㋛
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> at 18 they only have one question
[17:05] <mgdm> neuro: I have an NFS server that the clients keep getting 'nfs: server 10.19.0.42 not responding, still trying' - any idea what resource on the server itself I need to increase?
[17:05] <popey> can I have a car?
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> can I get (insert expensive option here)
[17:05] <neuro> umm buffery things?
[17:05] <popey> sophie asked for an ipod touch for xmas
[17:05] <ubuntubhoy> how old ?
[17:05] <mgdm> neuro: do you know the name for the buffery widget things?
[17:06] <popey> 9
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[17:06] <popey> bunch of her friends have them
[17:06] <mgdm> (also buffery is something you don't want to typo)
[17:06] <popey> they're very popular amongst that age group
[17:06] <popey> a few have ipads
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> popular in every age group
[17:06] <popey> well, yes ☻
[17:06] <neuro> mgdm: http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s05.html maybe?
[17:06] <ubuntubhoy> my youngest two bought their own iPod touches with birthday/xmas money and savings
[17:06] <neuro> buy her one and lock it down?
[17:07] <popey> yeah, I dont mind if they buy their own
[17:07] <neuro> with your own apple id
[17:07] <popey> but I'm not buying one for them
[17:07] <popey> too expensive
[17:07] <neuro> or ok, don't :)
[17:07] <ubuntubhoy> we limit xmas & B'day pressies
[17:07] <popey> they both have ipods already
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> same amount on all four
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> never anything mental
[17:08] <neuro> yeah but ipods don't do "stuff"
[17:08] <mgdm> neuro: I've added more instances of the nfsd. Might prod t'other ones eventually. Dont' want to break it, clearly :)
[17:08] <neuro> totally
[17:08]  * neuro is going to be looking at glusterfs soonish
[17:09] <popey> you have four kids ubuntubhoy ?
[17:09] <neuro> and tossing out oracle mysql in favour of percona
[17:09] <mgdm> I'm looking at either percona or perhaps mariadb
[17:09] <neuro> maria is allegedly not as compatible as percona
[17:09] <mgdm> o rly?
[17:09] <mgdm> didn't hear that
[17:09] <neuro> allegedly
[17:09] <mgdm> we'd be doing a 5.1 -> something newer migration anyway
[17:09] <neuro> but it can do funky stuff like multi-master plus slaves which apparently mysql and percona can't do
[17:10] <mgdm> hmmm
[17:10]  * neuro is looking at a multiple 5.1+5.5 migration :P
[17:10] <mgdm> we just do normal master/slave tuff
[17:10] <neuro> it's going to be a paaaaaaain
[17:10] <mgdm> our infra is not that tricky in the grand scheme of things
[17:10] <neuro> i'm leaning towards master+slave as it gives bigger DR options, so we can chuck a slave in ap-southeast-foo or us-west-foo
[17:11] <ubuntubhoy> popey: yeah 12, 14, 21 and 23
[17:11] <bigcalm> Getting a little unhappy on the ml today :S
[17:11] <neuro> but multi-master sounds ossm
[17:11] <neuro> perfOOOOOrmance!
[17:11] <mgdm> percona are cool of only because of xtrabackup
[17:11] <neuro> ^ this
[17:12] <neuro> but as a co they are frickin amazing
[17:12] <neuro> they helped us loads at linden lab
[17:12] <mgdm> I've met a couple of blokes from them at various conferences - they do know their stuff
[17:12] <neuro> they Know Stuff
[17:12] <neuro> ha
[17:12] <popey> meh @ list
[17:12] <popey> Liam is right IMO
[17:12] <neuro> which list, uk?
[17:13] <bigcalm> Hai
[17:13] <bigcalm> I mean yes
[17:20] <neuro> popey: just caught up, i agree
[17:20] <neuro> if you're not backing up business critical data, especially from a laptop, you're mad
[17:21]  * neuro has rsnapshot and time machine running everywhere, saves so much hassle
[17:26] <bigcalm> 2 x 2TB discs should be here on Monday to replace current backup drives. Do I go with 4TB of space or 2TB RAID1 like the other 2 drives in the server?
[17:26] <bigcalm> The latter means I need to remember how to set-up the raid again :)
[17:27] <jpds> bigcalm: RAID5.
[17:27] <jpds> Actually, probably a bad idea on disks that size.
[17:27] <popey> \o/ btrfs
[17:27] <neuro> :)
[17:27] <bigcalm> Tea time!
[17:27]  * bigcalm slithers awau
[17:27] <bigcalm> away
[17:27] <neuro> i only use raid1 when i absolutely positively need some form of data security
[17:27] <neuro> raid5 for everything else
[17:27] <neuro> raid0 is deadly
[17:27] <neuro> imho
[17:28] <neuro> been burned by it before
[17:28] <neuro> never again
[19:10] <popey> Happy Birthday Daviey !
[19:40] <CyberJacob> evening all
[19:41] <mungbean> howdy
[19:41] <CyberJacob> Is anybody else getting 'moderated list' messages for the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
[19:42] <popey> CyberJacob: are you subscribed?
[19:42] <CyberJacob> yup
[19:43] <CyberJacob> And I replied from the same address I'm subscribed with
[19:43] <popey> strange
[19:43] <CyberJacob> I've replied from the wrong address before, and I think the message just got blocked
[19:43] <popey> your address is set to moderation
[19:44] <CyberJacob> ok, any idea why?
[19:45] <popey> nope ☻
[19:46] <popey> have undone it
[19:46] <CyberJacob> thanks :)
[19:50] <mungbean> 10.04 ends today? argh
[19:52] <mungbean> my desktop at work runs it
[19:55] <popey> really windy out
[19:55] <popey> yes
[19:57] <mungbean> yes, its like october
[20:07] <jacobw> That's an odd description
[20:12] <mungbean> wind & rain
[20:12] <mungbean> watching hoarders prog. feeling convicted
[20:13] <mungbean> too much stuff , too small house
[20:18] <popey> i love those hoarders programmes
[20:18] <popey> what channel is it on?
[20:20] <mungbean> bbc1, not as good as "the hoarder next door"
[20:21] <mungbean> this one is britains biggest hoarders
[20:21] <mungbean> just been scoffing my face after watching secret eaters
[20:21] <mungbean> hoping to get to sleep before 4am toinght
[20:21] <mungbean> poorly child
[20:24] <mungbean> anyone used http://project-redcap.org/ before?
[20:39] <mungbean> this bbc version is more about bag ladies and mad ppl
[20:42] <popey> \o/
[20:42] <popey> Mr Trebus
[20:47] <Stuz719> \part
[21:09] <shauno> oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen a nerd on any of these 'hoarder' shows
[21:10] <mungbean> last week was a guy with old pcs and car parts
[21:10] <mungbean> but not a usual geek because extreme behaviour is a bit of an ollness
[21:10] <mgdm> I know several people that could be ;-)
[21:11] <mungbean> i had >10pcs before i got married
[21:11] <mungbean> msinly due to office clearance
[21:11] <mungbean> i gave them to ppl
[21:11] <makt> Evening all :)
[21:13] <mungbean> last week i threw away some amiga memory and ps/2 kb/mice
[21:14] <mungbean> and loads of ram
[21:20] <popey> i know someone who is a geek and a hoarder
[21:20] <popey> you have to climb over stuff to get into his house
[21:21] <czajkowski> popey: Jon :)
[21:21] <mungbean> he hoards tech?
[21:21] <czajkowski> everything and anything
[21:21] <czajkowski> bucket and buckets of cables, radios, old computers, discs, ram
[21:22] <mungbean> my house is q bad right now but me mrs e 2 tired with sprogs
[21:23]  * czajkowski is a tidt freak 
[21:23] <czajkowski> and I like things in boxes even clear boxes
[21:23] <diddledan> I think genetically men are incapable of throwing things away :-p (said as a man)
[21:24] <czajkowski> was great fun moving down from london, got a load of clear containers and one box was for each area , phones, radios, cables, etc had to get more boxes, he doesnt like getting rid of stuff
[21:24] <czajkowski> diddledan: I find the disapproving look to be a good look at things not being kept
[21:35] <popey> my den is quite tidy for me
[21:35] <popey> tidy enough that I can get the sofa bed out
[21:38] <czajkowski> popey: tidy in the view of your webcam for hangouts :)
[21:39] <popey> yup
[21:39] <popey> its tidy outside the cone of clean too
[21:39] <popey> right, bed
[21:39] <czajkowski> toodles
[21:46] <daftykins> although he may not necessarily wear clothes outside of the cone of cam view :>
[22:03] <fujisan> hello
[22:03] <fujisan> where can i download the new Ubuntu and can i run it on a single core AMD cpu?
[22:04] <bigcalm> fujisan: ubuntu.com and yes :)
[22:04] <fujisan> thanks
[22:06] <daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso
[22:06] <daftykins> that one no less
[22:07] <fujisan> oh wait
[22:07] <fujisan> my CPU isnt 64 bit
[22:07] <daftykins> no?
[22:07] <fujisan> it's 32
[22:07] <fujisan> it's very old
[22:07] <daftykins> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso
[22:07] <daftykins> is it an AMD Athlon XP?
[22:07] <fujisan> oh thanks
[22:07] <fujisan> yes
[22:07] <fujisan> how did you know?
[22:07] <bigcalm> Should work still
[22:07] <daftykins> mmm might not perform very well
[22:07] <daftykins> how much RAM?
[22:07] <bigcalm> They were very popular, lucky guess :)
[22:07] <directhex> athlon xp was awesome, once
[22:08] <fujisan> 2 gb
[22:08] <fujisan> lol directhex :)
[22:08] <directhex> i had a duron
[22:08] <bigcalm> I still have mine
[22:08] <directhex> too cheap for athlon
[22:08] <daftykins> well before the Athlon64 there were only AMD Athlon XP's and AMD Semprons that were 32-bit only
[22:08] <fujisan> yes it was in 2004 when i got it
[22:08] <daftykins> :D
[22:08] <fujisan> how much to built a new AMD pc you reckon?
[22:09]  * bigcalm throws some shapes to The Crystal Method and gets back to bench testing
[22:09] <fujisan> i have a Mac but i wont Ubuntu since we use it at work
[22:09] <daftykins> some say they're cheap but i always put together intel 'cause they just seem to win it since the last few years
[22:10] <daftykins> i've wanted to check out a modern AMD system - just don't want to pay to find out
[22:10] <directhex> amd is dirt cheap
[22:10] <fujisan> yeah i just want a rig that runs Ubuntu fairly decent i dont need anything high end
[22:10] <daftykins> fujisan: just run xubuntu or lubuntu instead
[22:10] <directhex> cpu is about tree fiddy. motherboard is five quid plus a kingsize snickers.
[22:10] <fujisan> i tried those both on my old PC
[22:10] <daftykins> they'll still run well on old hardware
[22:11] <fujisan> and the irony is im not trolling is that windows7 seems to run better on old hw than Ubuntu these days
[22:11] <daftykins> directhex: damn monster tell me he need tree fiddy ;x
[22:11] <fujisan> better*
[22:11] <daftykins> hmm
[22:11] <fujisan> but i like the new direction of Ubuntu
[22:12] <fujisan> so i want to try it at home as well
[22:12] <daftykins> i'm right now debating buying a PATA SSD for £100 for my old Sony ultra-portable, it runs Windows XP on an intel core solo ultra low voltage 1.2GHz
[22:12] <daftykins> i guess it'd be kinda stupid for me to put money into something so old :>
[22:12] <fujisan> yeah maybe i still kept my old PC
[22:13] <fujisan> i dont like to throw out something just because it's old
[22:13] <fujisan> i spend 80 euros on it a few years ago to get a new powersupply
[22:14] <daftykins> yeah stuff like that's fine
[22:14] <daftykins> i ran my Athlon XP until Christmas 2007/8
[22:15] <daftykins> then i upgraded to an intel core 2 quad
[22:15] <daftykins> gave the Athlon XP to a friend :) he kept her going for a few more years
[22:15] <daftykins> he eventually finished studying to be a Doctor so finally could afford his own though
[22:16] <fujisan> oh okay that's great
[22:17] <daftykins> but yeah the little laptop isn't really much use to me
[22:17] <daftykins> lives on a shelf at the moment
[22:17] <fujisan> in my city we even have repair centers for old appliances it was even featured in the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/world/europe/amsterdam-tries-to-change-culture-with-repair-cafes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
[22:17] <daftykins> ooh neat
[22:17] <daftykins> it's definitely how it should be
[22:17] <daftykins> culture's too disposable
[22:17] <fujisan> yeah
[22:18] <daftykins> it does make me sad when people just buy a new PC when all it needs is an OS reinstall or say, a new HDD
[22:19] <daftykins> equally though they probably don't want to pay me my hourly rate to sort it out
[22:19] <daftykins> as that's the kind of work i do
[22:28] <fujisan> yeah well some people just want the latest and the greatest
[22:28] <daftykins> hmm i don't even know which is newer of AMD Piledriver + Bulldozer
[22:29] <fujisan> me neither
[22:30] <fujisan> i just wonder if i could get a nice budget AMD system for 300 euros
[22:32] <fujisan> maybe i should double that budget though :)
[22:33] <fujisan> and it's not for gaming so i can get a cheap gfx card
[22:34] <daftykins> Ah Piledriver appears newer
[22:34] <daftykins> why have a card at all if it's got onboard? :)
[22:35] <fujisan> yeah good point i didnt know AMD did that
[22:36] <daftykins> they might not be the top performers mind you
[22:36] <daftykins> i found a recent AMD vs. Intel kind of article
[22:36] <daftykins> http://anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested
[22:38] <daftykins> comparing at the top end, a £125 AMD FX8350 to an Intel i7-3770K at £233
[22:38] <daftykins> that's definitely quite the price difference
[22:39] <directhex> daftykins, my cpu is 4 years old now.
[22:40] <daftykins> what are you running? my desktop has a Q6600 on LGA775
[22:40] <daftykins> so that's about 5yrs
[22:40] <directhex> also mobo and half my ram. and psu and case. and blu-ray drive. and speakers. i think that's all the original components
[22:40] <directhex> daftykins, i7 920
[22:40] <directhex> on socket 1366
[22:41] <daftykins> ah yeah
[22:41] <daftykins> i remember that being the premium option at the time
[22:41] <directhex> super premium :|
[22:41] <daftykins> hehe
[22:41] <directhex> >£100 motherboards
[22:41] <daftykins> she's lasted well though
[22:41] <directhex> as entry level for the socket
[22:41] <daftykins> i don't know if you remember fraggy from quakenet, but he is running about the same
[22:41] <directhex> i tried cheaping out on the only sub-£100 mobo, an XFX. DOA.
[22:41] <directhex> got it replaced. DOA.
[22:42] <daftykins> :(
[22:42] <daftykins> officially stung
[22:42] <directhex> paid the price difference for gigabyte. fine first time
[22:42] <directhex> problem now is a significant cpu upgrade without replacing the mobo is... LOTS of money. LOTS.
[22:42] <daftykins> i'm glad i gave up the upgrade game
[22:42] <daftykins> ja indeed, you may as well get a new case and do a whole separate build
[22:43] <daftykins> i've the same situation with LGA775
[22:43] <daftykins> and do you know, i don't even think the upgrade would feel justified, even once Intel's Haswell is out
[22:43] <directhex> the cpu support list for this mobo is 66% xeons
[22:44] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:44] <daftykins> £££
[22:44] <directhex> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2958
[22:45] <daftykins> there we go, a top-end Nehalem? :>
[22:45] <daftykins> 130W TDPs feature a lot there >_<
[22:45] <directhex> about £50 00 on ebay for a W3690 nehalem
[22:46] <directhex> er, £500
[22:46] <directhex> used
[22:46] <directhex> imported
[22:47] <directhex> bed.
[22:47] <daftykins> nn sir
[22:47] <daftykins> fujisan: AMD Trinity is what you want to look at for budget CPUs with graphics
[22:47] <daftykins> just read what they are :D
[22:58] <shauno> your nicks seem to line up just enough that for a moment there, I thought it was just one person talking to himself
[22:58] <daftykins> me and hexy are actually one schizophrenic individual :(