[00:27] <th3pr0ph3t> Ubuntu Studio needs a guided tour: when I first booted Ubuntu Studio I asked myself: "Now what do I do with all this?" -- of course the knowledge base is there but there should be something friendlier. Is someone already working on this? Can I help?
[00:29] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: We'd love to get more people involved in working on things like that. We don't really have anyone working on user documentation, and what we have on the website is not edited very often http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/
[00:30] <zequence> There is a structure laid out for a written user guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide
[00:30] <zequence> We've had plans for making videos
[00:30] <zequence> And, adding something to the ISO itself
[00:30] <th3pr0ph3t> :O
[00:31] <zequence> All we really need is for someone to create some material. We can host stuff on our website, or on the ISO. Depending on the format, and so on
[00:31] <th3pr0ph3t> and are there some rules on how to extend, the information in there?
[00:32] <zequence> There's really just what you see at the moment
[00:32] <zequence> I did the structure for the user guide sometime last year, but you don't really know what is best until you start working on it
[00:33] <zequence> I also did the feature tour for the website, but that was really more of completing it in order for us to be able to publish the new website (you might have seent he older one, which was quite different)
[00:34] <th3pr0ph3t> Yes, I returned to ubuntu studio after a few years and saw many changes
[00:34] <th3pr0ph3t> maybe in a few days I could add something that could work as a starter guide for inkscape, maybe?
[00:35] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Don't forget that there may be good tutorials already out there. Maybe all you need is to add links to them, and making the links pretty
[00:36] <zequence> It's best to try make use of existing material as much as possible. 
[00:36] <zequence> But, some really basic introductions aren't wrong of course
[00:36] <zequence> Especially if it's more in the line of introducint Ubuntu Studio rather than specific applications
[00:37] <zequence> The user guide should focus mostly on Ubuntu Studio specific stuff, and point towards other sources whenever there already is something ready out there
[00:38] <zequence> The main focus when it comes to applications is probably from a workflow point of view. And that could involve not only one, but a multitude of applications
[00:38] <th3pr0ph3t> that's true... :/
[00:39] <zequence> That is also something I mention on the User Guide structure
[00:39] <zequence> Some kind of intro to common tasks an artist/producer would do, and what applications they could use for that
[00:39] <zequence> So, it would be like a short introduction on what you can do with Ubuntu Studio
[00:40] <zequence> One could combine that with videos
[00:40] <th3pr0ph3t> It would be nice if those introductions to each set of tools looked the same: same visual style instead of links to external tutorials..
[00:41] <zequence> I would avoid getting into details. Just a quick run through of some of the features
[00:41] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Well, if you are up for the work, then you are free to do it :)
[00:42] <th3pr0ph3t> I think I'll just stay on the channel until there's something I can do to help
[00:42] <zequence> The problem with large documentation is that few people have the time to complete it
[00:44] <zequence> So, to be able to get the docs to be as all encompassing as possible, it's much smarter to make the docs be a gateway to other information portals for the detailed stuff
[00:44] <zequence> And only put energy on creating clearly Ubuntu Studio specific  documentation, that couldn't be found elsewhere
[00:45] <th3pr0ph3t> yet ubuntu studio is overwhelming, it has a lot of tools and it would be nice if it took the user by the hand to give the first steps, then tell him: there are more tutorials over there, go.
[00:46] <zequence> Exactly
[00:46] <th3pr0ph3t> I felt overwhelmed with the audio tools, of which I don't know much
[00:46] <zequence> There's a problem with the audio workflow. It's too complicated. Docs is one way to solve it. Another is to simplify it by developing it further
[00:48] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: One of the tasks none of us really has the time for (or interest), is to take an entire workflow, such as audio, or graphics, or video, and only work at researching what applications exist, what we should include, and if the applications are working the way they should (built with the correct features)
[00:49] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: In fact, the only time you can clearly get someone to very simply tell you what you could help out with is when it is time to do testing. But, that is only a couple of times before each release
[00:49] <zequence> The rest of the time, it's really up to each individual, to focus on some task, and work independently
[00:50] <zequence> ..with the feedback and assistance from fellow team members of course
[00:50] <th3pr0ph3t> alright, I'll make a habit to open xchat on this channel and stay tuned
[00:51] <zequence> th3pr0ph3t: Great. I'm sure that if you stick around, you'll get the feeling for it
[06:15] <smartboyhw> holstein: Do you think the EOL announcement that I posted is good enough?
[06:15] <holstein> smartboyhw: sure
[06:15] <holstein> several people seem to have noticed it
[06:15] <smartboyhw> holstein: :)
[06:42] <smartboyhw> zequence: Can you post the EOL announcement as "Ubuntu Studio" and post it to the Ubuntu Studio Community please?
[08:01] <zequence> smartboyhw_: You should post in the user list too.
[08:02] <zequence> Really more interesting to users, since we don't do any direct support for those releases, and don't have to be adjusting our work at all based on which releases are currently supported
[08:05] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Which I did
[08:06] <smartboyhw_> I send to -users and -devel at the same time
[08:07] <zequence> Right you are
[08:07] <zequence> Seems like I've found a problem with my email filter
[08:07] <zequence> Or, rather, my email server :(
[08:07] <smartboyhw_> zequence: :(
[11:30] <TheresNogod> hi
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Hello TheresNogod
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Hello DarkEra
[11:32] <DarkEra> hi smartboyhw 
[21:32] <zequence> kind of lonely in here.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFHzYlnDB_g
[21:37] <len-1304> :)  That bad ?
[21:42] <zequence> Oh, I'll survive.. 
[21:43] <jablo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=596qaxm-u4o ?
[21:43] <zequence> Just wondering where all our devs are at, but maybe there's a holiday I don't know, or I'm just crazy thinking people want to develop Ubuntu flavors on a friday
[21:44] <zequence> Nice cover
[21:45] <zequence> I took a step towards creating universal dev docs for flavors by drafting this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation/Scratchpad
[21:46] <zequence> Trying to find a nice format for it, so you can quickly get an overview if you're totally new to it, but also be able to find every little detail about any task you need to do
[21:46] <zequence> It's going to be multi paged later
[21:49] <zequence> Once I feel I have something substantial, I'll start poking different people, in other flavors and Ubuntu devs to give me some feedback
[21:50] <zequence> Don't think anyone has requested anything like this, but I'm hoping it might improve chances for more activity. Just wondering why in a world with so many billions of people, so few find their way to the most popular multimedia content production Linux distribution, and want to help
[21:51] <zequence> It's like one in a billion, isn't it?
[21:51] <zequence> All though, it's not fair to say that, since not everyone has a computer
[21:51] <zequence> Or, is the proper age, etc
[21:51] <zequence> It's still less than one in a million
[21:52] <jablo> Million to one chances crop of 9 times out of ten. Well-known fact.
[21:54] <zequence> jablo: Hi. Haven't seen your nick before, so I'm assuming you are new here? :)
[21:54] <jablo> I'm new on the forum. Listening in. Since there was quiet, I thought it ok to be just a tad off topic.
[21:56] <zequence> Yes, we aren't always very formal in here, mostly because there is less activity than on many other dev related channels
[21:56] <zequence> We don't really require an off topic channel, like many others have for that reason, I think
[21:57] <jablo> :)
[21:58] <jablo> In regards to "...why in a world with so many billions of people, so few find their way to the most popular multimedia content production Linux distribution..."... Between work, home, children, actually *using* ubuntu studio (and learning in the process), there's very little time to contribute :(
[21:59] <zequence> Better not get children, wives and try to avoid too much work :)
[21:59] <jablo> lol.
[21:59] <zequence> But, sure. Many people are in that hamster wheel
[22:02] <jablo> For me, I never did combine music and computers until recently (year or so). So learning DAW etc. has been quite enough computers (outside work). Did contribute some stack traces on the ardour list a while back, though. Not much, but hey :)
[22:04] <zequence> You are fast to contribute then. I started out using computers at around 2001 or so, and didn't begin to contribute until 2010 or so
[22:04] <zequence> But, I wasn't using Linux at first. The first Ubuntu Studio installation I did was at around 2008
[22:05] <jablo> I'm old (45). Been using computers "all my life" (since at the age of 12 I met a Z80 based computer). 
[22:05] <jablo> just not for music. 
[22:05] <zequence> You're probably younger than len-1304
[22:06] <zequence> Well, I was referring to when I started using the with music myself. All though, I was never a big computer user, my first interaction was with a Macintosh back in the 80s. 512kb RAM
[22:06] <zequence> I'm 35 myself
[22:06] <jablo> ah.
[22:07] <jablo> Ubuntu studio is just so nice!
[22:07] <zequence> The main reason I started learning stuff was because things weren't always working, and now I'm the project lead of Ubuntu Studio :P
[22:08] <jablo> !!!
[22:08] <zequence> Yes, Ubuntu Studio has had its ups and downs, but it really does fill a purpose
[22:09] <jablo> As long as there's a working lowlatency kernel. That's a must-have in my experience.
[22:09] <zequence> Yes, definitely
[22:09] <zequence> There was a -rt kernel in the past, but was not included with all releases
[22:10] <zequence> Finally, when the vanilla kernel included enough of the rt patch, a reconfigured -generic was good enough for low latency audio
[22:10] <zequence> So, that is when it was introduced
[22:10] <zequence> Originally maintained by Alessio Bogani
[22:11] <jablo> Yeh. Actually, I think it's more than 1year. Come to think of it, 2 or so at least; I remember I had a nice working setup on an old laptop, with working lolatency or -rt kernel. And a 2 port USB sound card. Taught me absolute basics of sound recording. Upgraded, then nothing worked and waited for months until suddenly there was a new -rt or lowlatency kernel. 
[22:11] <zequence> But, nowadays maintained by me. And, things are rolling pretty well now. New stable release updates about every 3 weeks, in cadence with -generic
[22:11] <jablo> oh so you are my ubuntu-studio life saver. Thanks!
[22:12] <zequence> Well, I only took over the boring work, after the important things had already been done by others :)
[22:12] <zequence> I was involved in testing it, and propagating for it being included in the repositories, which I guess was important too
[22:12] <jablo> That's always how it seems I think. To the one doing the job, it's easy. Everyone else stands in awe.
[22:13] <zequence> Really, it's mostly just administrational work. Following bug reports, running a script, and then testing it to make sure it works
[22:13] <zequence> Anyone could do it, if they knew the right steps
[22:13] <zequence> The hard part is to set it up
[22:14] <jablo> Ye. The getting-started part. The "hello world" like learning curve.
[22:14] <zequence> Really, most of the work that is required to make Ubuntu Studio a great OS does not need any skills at all. Just a bit of time
[22:15] <zequence> Like choosing and testing applications. Reporting bugs, etc
[22:15] <zequence> Writing documentation, doing PR or user support, and so on
[22:16] <jablo> I'll hang around - even if I started out whining a bit before (time), I really would like to do something.
[22:16] <zequence> I've written up the maintenance procedure for the kernel here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/KernelMaintenance
[22:17] <zequence> jablo: You are welcome. And even if you only find time to do something for a few days, we'd be grateful
[22:18] <jablo> One thing that bothers (long explanation follows): I use 2 ICE1712 based sound cards, synchronized with spdif. I combine them into one virtual card with asoundrc. Works really well UNLESS i click "enable d-bus interface" in jack. Where the **** would I start looking for why that is a problem?
[22:19] <jablo> it seems jack ignores asoundrc virtual combined device when dbus interface is on
[22:19] <zequence> Oh, that is interesting
[22:19] <zequence> I have two ICE1712 card myself, and have only tried that once. Never needed them for that (I usually do multitracking at a friends studio, when recording drums)
[22:20] <zequence> When disabling dbus in qjackct, it really just means, you are starting jackd and not jackdbus
[22:21] <jablo> (nice write-up of kernel maintenance)
[22:21] <jablo> So it's a jackdbus question (for the #jack channel?)
[22:21] <zequence> jablo: I would ask people in #jack about this. Ask them, why are you not able to run both cards as one with jackdbus, when you can do it with jackd
[22:22] <zequence> jablo: Some information for you: to start jackd from the terminal: jackd <options>, to start jackdbus from the terminal, you use the script jack_control (in /usr/bin/jack_control), and you do: jack_control start
[22:24] <zequence> The kernel maintenance page probably does not work for anyone but myself now, as only I have access to my repos, but it's reflects how I do it
[22:25] <zequence> Come to think of that, I should start a project for Ubuntu Studio at github for things like this
[22:26] <jablo> zequence: I was just going to say that - 
[22:29] <jablo> it's getting a but late, but I think I'll try your description soon. For ardour I ended up following instructions on the #ardour channel and compiled lv2-1.2.0.tar.bz2, sratom-0.2.0.tar.bz2, lilv-0.14.4.tar.bz2, suil-0.6.10.tar.bz2, sord-0.8.0.tar.bz2 and ardour3 from git repository myself.
[22:29] <jablo> so my ardour runs more or less out of my home directory. Who does the ardour package for ubuntu studio?
[22:31] <zequence> jablo: All packages are done in Debian, which is where the package for ardour3 is being prepared
[22:31] <jablo> ah. of course
[22:31] <zequence> jablo: I've built it on my ppa. You can get it with: ppa:zequence/testing
[22:31] <zequence> It's not a permanent ppa, mind you
[22:31] <zequence> So, I would only use it once to install ardour, and then remove the ppa
[22:32] <zequence> To add the ppa: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:zequence/testing
[22:33] <zequence> Afterwards, you can delete it from /etc/apt/sources.d/
[22:33] <jablo> I don't remember why I ended up downloading and compilling all those extra tarballs - probably they were needed to compile (as opposed to merely running) ardour. So you build a dist of ardour3 regularly?
[22:35] <jablo> Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/zequence/testing/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
[22:35] <Len-nb> jablo, some people have found starting jackd(bus) with one card and using zita-aj for the second works a lot better.
[22:37] <jablo> Lan-nb: Would zita-aj still do some resampling even if I keep the two cards on sync with spdif ?
[22:38] <jablo> Len-nb: What I mean is - zita-aj seems like a software solution to synchronizing the cards, which I can do much better in hardware. And thus would prefer.
[22:38] <Len-nb> In the current incarnation yes.
[22:38] <Len-nb> The author has talked about doing a straight through version
[22:38] <Len-nb> or switch.
[22:39] <Len-nb> Maybe if enough people bug him about it will actually get done :)
[22:39] <jablo> hehe
[22:39] <jablo> Not shure I'm in a bugging position. eh.
[22:40] <zequence> jablo: Ah, I only have raring packages there :(
[22:40] <Len-nb> Fons is on the LAU mailing list, you could ask there.
[22:40] <jablo> zequence: sry. I can't fnd my way aound these animal-version names. Raring being...?
[22:40] <zequence> jablo: 13.04, the latest release
[22:41] <jablo> Hehe. NOw we get to the other reason I started to hang around here... to spy on others having done the upgrade, and hear about the results. Sounds like I have an upgrade coming.
[22:42] <zequence> heck, we'll all be running 13.10 soon
[22:42] <zequence> But, not as production machines :)
[22:43] <jablo> production... production... music'ing etc. is my hobby. there's not a production machine in sight here.
[22:43] <jablo> Oh well, I'll take a backup of my home dir and start the upgrade before (going to sleep anyway now, yawn).
[22:43] <Len-nb> jablo, Apparently pcm-multi is not working so well right now. You are not the first person to have problems with two indentical cards
[22:44] <jablo> Len-nb: it's been a while since I last used my cad in combo. 
[22:45] <Len-nb> I have only one card (a D66) so I have not ever tried to set it up
[22:46] <Len-nb> I keep thinking it would be nice to have a 1010 or two, but the reality is I rarely even use two channels right now.
[22:48] <jablo> Len-nb: well, it was "easy" (following a link, I can dig it out again); once I figured out the dbus/non-dbus problem. It just works I use the combined device to record my band when we practice (7 mics drums, 1 bass, 1 guitar, 2 keyb, 1 vocal). Using the built-in mixer we get 0-latency and quite a decent recording. There's some bleeding between drums and vocal. But it's for practising, so...
[22:49] <Len-nb> I only have 6 mics anyway. I might be able to mic a drum kit....
[22:50] <jablo> Oh - we used 3 mics for the drums the fist 2 times... then he went and bought a set of mics to mount. 
[22:52] <Len-nb> using zita-aj I could get up to 8 channels, but then I run out of mic preamps too. So upgrading starts to get pricey quick.
[22:55] <jablo> My cards each have 2 preamps, drummer had 1 already, guitarist had a dual, we have an older 6 channel mixer too which amounts to 1 preamp, I use "effect send" on the bass amplifier. Guitarist has a multifunction board and its output level is ok for recording. So it just barely works out. Could get pricey though.
[23:00] <jablo> I have a couple of extra preamps on my borthday/christmas present wish list. sigh.
[23:02] <jablo> well, it's linux upgrading time and  I wont' sit here looking at the download. Be back tomorrow.
[23:18] <zequence> Yay, another one man team https://github.com/ubuntustudio-kernel
[23:20] <DarkEra> zequence ----> the one man army :D
[23:22] <zequence> DarkEra: I started sketching on a more thoroguh documentation for flavor developers https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation/Scratchpad
[23:23] <zequence> Still just a sketch, but hoping it might be helpful
[23:23] <DarkEra> going to have a look :)
[23:45] <DarkEra> zequence, wow, nice work you've done there so far
[23:47] <DarkEra> a lot of useful stuff to read that i will dive into