[04:28] valorie: are you there? [04:28] hi [04:28] I never got that email [04:29] hey smartboyhw [04:29] I asked earlier what email address to send it to? [04:29] I thought I gave it [04:29] oh I gave it to Riddell [04:30] Happy Mother's Day everyone [04:30] aaronhoneycutt@outlook.com sorry ;( [04:30] smartboyhw: same to you! [04:30] oh to valorie as well of course [04:32] soon it will be! [04:32] a few more hours [04:32] it is here [04:32] ahoneybun_: Heh say it to my mother… [04:33] ok, email on the way [04:33] yea [04:33] sweet [04:33] I put a board on trello btw valorie [04:34] cool [04:34] * smartboyhw checks the Trello board [04:37] ok, sent [04:38] I thought there was more there [04:38] on the page? [04:38] my brain was more empty than I thought [04:38] in my little document I just sent to you [04:39] oh ok [04:40] one night I couldn't stop thinking, and wrote that, and the beginning of some blog posts [04:41] obsessive thinking doesn't necessarily produce the best results [04:42] I see I sent a reply [04:43] ok, I'll look at that soon [04:45] ok [04:47] I looked at the trello yesterday, but I didn't really understand what needed to be done [04:49] I fixed it [04:49] since then [04:50] cool [04:50] in the kubuntu-docs branch on lp there are folders in the docs directory with xml files and I need to import those into the wiki and I have put them into parts [04:50] the 6 pages [04:51] ah, OK [04:52] I thought that might be it [04:52] yea [04:52] it's been so long since i worked with the files [04:52] and I got sidetracked working with the xubuntu files [04:52] yea sorry I have it in my own way really [04:54] as long as you are doing the work, that's OK [04:54] yea but not to great when working with others. [04:55] question [04:55] shot [04:55] the pages we were working on didn't look all that great around the edges [04:55] but https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ looks GOOD [04:56] are we not linking right to that, or what? [04:56] for the getting involved page? [04:56] or in general [04:57] in general [04:57] do you see what I mean? [04:57] the theming at the top? [04:57] oh that [04:57] the icons? [04:58] the theming [04:58] where it says Kubuntu wiki [04:59] oh how some pages say ubuntu wiki? [04:59] I see why [05:00] is that what your talking about? [05:00] yes [05:00] I fail to understand the system, i guess [05:00] its because I put wiki.ubuntu.com and not wiki.kubuntu.com in the links [05:00] ewww [05:00] why are all my browser failing me [05:01] why? [05:01] idk I took one link copy and used it to make them all [05:01] I mean, people should be able to find us on the ubuntu wiki [05:01] sure [05:01] but we are kubuntu.org [05:01] not ubuntu.com [05:01] yes [05:01] I hate that .com anyway [05:01] and always have [05:02] we are not a company [05:02] canonical.com is fine [05:02] a non-profit org [05:02] they are in it to make money [05:02] we're doing this for love [05:02] why does that page say wiki.ubuntu.com but still have the Kubuntu Wiki theme [05:03] weird [05:04] seems the main page is on wiki.ubuntu.com [05:05] or is on both it seems [05:06] seems to be having server issues [05:09] well, I don't understand it [05:09] but I would like to see our pages be hosted primarily on our own branded wiki [05:10] working on that [05:10] awesome [05:14] yes [05:16] so almost 50% with the basics page [05:17] just need to write permissions section [05:18] * ahoneybun_ got lazy and just used <> [05:19] I could not get the links to work right [05:21] I'm so glad you are comfortable working with that wiki software [05:22] oh? [05:23] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics is that too many ? [05:23] its like HTML and CSS, it has to be neat for others to read [05:24] you should look at the code on that page! [05:24] personally, I would leave out the subheadings under tips [05:24] but it LOOKS great [05:25] it makes too many links [05:26] what I could do it group them together [05:26] what I could do is group them [05:26] sure [05:28] did you get a chance to look at the code? [05:31] refresh [05:31] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/Basics [05:33] omfg, this wiki is the slowest thing to save anything [05:34] next to my freaking PHONE [05:34] lol [05:34] yea lol [05:38] did it load? [05:39] yes, that looks good [05:40] great ;) [05:40] that code is insane [05:40] yea is it readable [05:40] ? [05:42] this should be the biggest page [05:42] it's long [05:42] I'll read for content once you are done editing [05:42] I know, and I still have 4 more xml files to load in there [05:43] well, it needs to be split, IMO [05:43] yea I was afraid of that [05:43] I mean its not bad to add 2 more pages [05:44] I could throw cli.xml and the basics.xml into a Linux Basic page on its own [05:44] do a Kubuntu Basics and Linux Basics [05:45] yes please [05:45] ok [05:45] people don't necessarily ever need linux basics [05:45] if we do our job correctly [05:45] I mean, I like the cli [05:45] but most people don't [05:46] I should update the trello and see how you think it looks [05:46] first! [05:46] ok! [05:46] then I'm going to watch another doctor who episode [05:46] my DVR got off-track, and I'm sadly behind [05:47] and really, this is necessary for proper work in kubuntu [05:47] the doctor who? [05:47] rofl [05:47] he loves to hear people ask that! [05:47] I know I watch it too [05:48] naturally [05:48] got the belt, socks, and one t-shirt [05:48] haha [05:48] have you read up on project time lord? [05:48] nope [05:49] http://www.kubuntu.org/news/by-tag/project-timelord [05:50] I missed participating, but I was using kub. at the time [05:50] lol [05:50] just becoming aware, faintly, that there was a community behind all this wonderfulness [05:50] and also not a doctor who fan yet! [05:51] wow, i hadn't put that together until now [05:51] oh? [05:51] anyway, back in roughly an hour [05:51] I mean, I was not yet a fan [05:52] oh ok idk if I will be up [07:26] ahoneybun_: the links to /Basics don [07:26] t work anymore [07:26] I think the name of theKubuntuBasics should be /Basics [07:55] hmmm, I thought we discouraged the use of aptitude these days? [07:55] otherwise, why don't we include it in the standard install? [07:56] IMO it shouldn't be in our kubuntu basics wiki pages [07:58] and seriously, if people are going to convert rpms to debs, do they need step by step of how to install alien in muon? [07:58] * valorie sees some problems with our old docs! [08:02] we no longer have LiveCDs right? only DVDs [08:13] ok, finished with KubuntuBasics [08:13] which I think should be simple Basics [08:14] ahoneybun_: ^^^ [08:26] ok, time for me to shut down for the night [08:26] I'll be around tomorrow evening again, ahoneybun_ [08:30] agateau, may i ask one question? [08:51] valorie, ahoneybun_: aptitude has some valid use cases, but on a desktop system it only duplicates functionality that's covered by other tools [09:38] !testers | 4.10.3 is done for 12.04 and 12.10 in ninjas [09:38] 4.10.3 is done for 12.04 and 12.10 in ninjas: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader for information. [11:49] Hey all [12:03] Good afternoon. === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [12:22] hiho [13:00] Riddell, I can do some packaging now. [13:22] kubotu: newversion nootka 0.8.77~beta [13:22] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1179207 [13:22] * smartboyhw \o/(s) at so many needs-packaging bug he created. [13:24] Hmm, http://felix.fobos.de/kubuntu/kubuntu-buildstatus.htm is interesting [13:33] If no one objects, I am doing the merges now. Starting by ksudoku [13:35] Do some trivial ones first:P [13:46] Somebody help, I dget -x the package from Ubuntu and the signature check failed since the jey is Riddell's (already imported but no) [13:46] s/jey/key/ [13:46] smartboyhw meant: "Somebody help, I dget -x the package from Ubuntu and the signature check failed since the key is Riddell's (already imported but no)" [13:47] Meh, trying dpkg-source [13:50] Hurray it worked [13:50] smartboyhw: great [13:51] Riddell, :P [13:52] Riddell, so I merged the changelog and no debian/patches found. But then I also need to merge debian/rules too. Do I use the Debian ver. or Ubuntu ver. ? [13:53] smartboyhw: start with the debian version [13:53] and if there are any changes with good reasons in ubuntu add those in [13:53] but usually there's aren't [13:54] Riddell, OK [13:56] Riddell, so for example, priority: optional for Debian, priority: extra for Ubuntu (in debian/control) which one should I choose?) [13:56] go with debian [13:56] Riddell, :) [13:57] in almost all cases go with debain, keep the delta as small as possible [13:57] Riddell, heh Debian's ksudoku is much detailed than us. [13:57] They got icons and manpages [13:57] cd .. [13:57] Oops :P [14:03] Riddell, is kde-sc-dev-latest in debian = pkg-kde-tools in ubuntu? [14:04] Let me check... [14:04] Now I come to think of it: We need pkg-kde-tools [14:08] Riddell, is that correct? ^ [14:25] valorie: yofel so remove aptitude from the docs? [14:28] ahoneybun: it's really only useful in server docs. Mentioning it as an alternative would be ok I guess, but without further explenation [14:30] I love using it over apt as I have to do 'apt-cache search' by with aptitude 'aptitude search' [14:30] yeah, the search functionality is one of my use cases for it. aptitude's search patterns beat apt-cache by far [14:30] smartboyhw_: wrt. kde-sc-dev-latest [14:30] so much more power [14:31] smartboyhw_: leave it in as it is I would say. We don't bump the version lately, and it has a dep on pkg-kde-tools [14:31] as long as we don't change the sc-dev-latest version in meta-kde there's no point in changing that [14:31] it has 2 sentences talking about it in the Docs, apt has the most [14:32] smartboyhw_: do keep any versioned kde build-deps that we have in ubuntu. Our scripts use that [14:32] (while debian does that with kde-sc-dev-latest) [14:33] yofel: OK [14:33] ahoneybun: where's that? 2 lines would be fine probably, if anything put those at the bottom [14:33] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail/KubuntuBasics#Managing_software right below Apt [14:34] hm, I would leave it like that... [14:34] why the '...' [14:34] valorie: ^ opinion? [14:34] * yofel isn't much of a doc writer [14:35] neither am I [14:38] ahoneybun: If you have time, join the Ubuntu Docs team, they are in lack of contributors ;P [14:38] smartboyhw_: really? [14:39] ahoneybun: Yep [14:39] I believe all flavours have a lack of personal for the documentation [14:39] yofel: Even Ubuntu has that problem:P [14:39] yea hard to believe lol [14:40] is there a kubuntu-doc mailing list [14:40] ? [14:40] smartboyhw_: well... from my POV my statement included ubuntu [14:40] ahoneybun: nope [14:40] ahoneybun: kubuntu-devel is has low enough traffic that splitting things makes no sense [14:41] yea [14:41] even the seperate IRC channels that we had are unused today [14:41] (-bugs and -testers) [14:41] smartboyhw_: heck the #ubuntu-docs channel is invite only [14:42] ahoneybun: Try #ubuntu-doc [14:43] smartboyhw_: that seems to work, but I have no exp in DocBook it looks weird to me [14:44] Someone review ksudoku in https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/+archive/ppa plz [14:45] review? [14:45] and upload:P [14:45] upload? [14:45] ahoneybun: Packages. [14:45] I see [14:45] smartboyhw_: can you put that into a branch please? A merge is easier to review (even without LP) [14:45] to the Ubuntu archive [14:46] yofel: Oh meh [14:46] as I'll have to make a diff anyway... [14:46] kubuntu-packaging branch or the ubuntu one? [14:46] yofel: ^ [14:46] former [14:47] yofel: OK [14:49] yofel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam#Beginners_Team_Help look how they are doing subpages [14:50] hm interesting [14:51] I didn't know moinmoin could do that [14:52] a tablesyle mixed with a table [14:52] yea a table [14:53] yofel: Check the reviews for ksudoku kubuntu-packaging branch plz [14:54] I'll do that once I find them... [14:54] yofel: Sorry, I don't want to use IRC on my PC since the tennis live scores are disrupting:P [14:55] lol [14:55] found it ^^ [14:57] yofel: Wait [14:57] I'm refiling the m.p. [14:57] you don't need to [14:57] I can work with it [14:58] I don't pay attention to what's on launchpad anyway [14:58] done… :P [14:58] (well, esp. if you merge into the wrong branch ^^) [14:58] you're refiling the member of parliament :O [14:58] yofel: Yep:P [14:58] rofl [14:58] apachelogger: What? [15:02] smartboyhw_: wrong maintainer, xsbc-original-maintainer is missing, wrong Vcs url's. Otherwise, looks fine [15:03] yofel: Riddell did the same thing I think [15:03] uhm... that's wrong then [15:03] Meh [15:03] maintainer is us as soon as there is -XubuntuY in the changelog [15:04] you keep debian as original maintainer then [15:04] Look at kcalc… [15:04] looks fine to me [15:05] ah, the Vcs links are missing [15:05] that needs fixing [15:05] yofel: Look more carefully… [15:05] smartboyhw_: we're talking about kcalc right? [15:05] yofel: sure [15:06] Maintainer: Kubuntu Developers [15:06] XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers [15:06] yofel: The uploaders thing? [15:06] Ubuntu has no use for that field so leave it as it is [15:07] yofel: Ah OK then [15:08] Riddell: could you please add Vcs links in the control file when you see they're missing? [15:08] they're not too helpful for us, but without those other people don't know where to commit to when they change something in the package [15:11] yofel: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail what do you think? of the table of contents [15:14] hm... ok, I guess. I was thinking to rather use a header like on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu, but that feels overloaded and looks weird for some reason [15:14] smartboyhw_: what do you think? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDocs/RaringRingtail [15:15] it does look nice but yes overloaded [15:16] the calender part should probably go away [15:16] Back [15:16] wb [15:18] Hello Riddelll [15:18] lol [15:19] yofel: I don't like I guess [15:20] let me try something [15:20] o [15:20] k [15:21] meh [15:21] yofel: You got my message? [15:21] yofel: what? [15:21] smartboyhw: not reall? [15:21] Before I went into weird internet;P [15:21] y [15:21] (smartboyhw_) yofel: So am I going to edit the wrong bits or you? [15:21] Yep [15:22] smartboyhw: hm, I can fix it. That's probably easiest [15:22] yofel: Thanks:) [15:22] ahoneybun: I tried putting it at the top without the text, but then it doesn't fit together with the page menu [15:23] the sub-pages [15:23] ? [15:23] yea [15:23] h [15:23] yea above or below the banner? [15:23] below the banner, which didn't really work [15:24] * apachelogger just remembered that the kubuntu wiki is not supposed to be used for user interaction..... [15:24] like community.kde its meant for internal stuff [15:24] so leaving it at the bottom would be best if we use it. The page should still point people to the important pages in the text [15:24] apachelogger: how is docs supposed to be for user interaction? [15:25] My namesake left! lol [15:26] yofel: users are supposed to read the documentation, no? :P [15:27] apachelogger: so your point is...? [15:27] read not click links? [15:27] I'm not sure whether a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/ -style documentation would be better... [15:27] my point is it cannot stay in the wiki unless you only use the wiki as development place in which case your formatting worries are probably no goody [15:28] where would you put it then? website? [15:29] for example [15:29] or a sane wiki [15:30] well, we can talk about that once the docs are done. Currently they *are* WIP [15:30] but yeah, we should worry about the formatting later [15:30] so thats what he is saying, write it for now [15:36] thats what you are saying? [15:44] * yofel notes that ksudoku in debian is broken [15:45] at least I get an empty package when building here [15:46] yofel: I can build it here… [15:46] With -Installing(s) [15:46] smartboyhw: nah, I'll talk to maxy first [15:47] smartboyhw: well, it *builds*, but the result deb is empty [15:47] yofel: :O [15:48] Mine is 1.4 MB [15:50] nvm [15:50] I missed that you didn't commit the install file [15:52] yofel: :O oops [15:52] Why didn't I? [15:52] there's quite a few things missing actually when comparing it to debian git [15:52] $ ls debian/ [15:52] changelog compat control copyright rules source [15:52] $ ls ../ksudoku-debian/debian/ [15:52] changelog compat control copyright icon-list icons ksudoku.docs ksudoku.install ksudoku.manpages ksudoku.menu man rules source watch [15:52] yofel: Ah damn [15:52] I forgotten bzr add! [15:53] * smartboyhw hates add commands [15:53] I'll fix it, please don't forget it next time ;) [15:53] * smartboyhw criee [15:53] *cries [15:53] Extremely sorry yofel:( [15:53] Anyways, sleep time. [15:54] nini [16:19] Yay, I just LOVE airports [17:19] Darkwing: I thought you never talked lol [17:36] hey je4d_ [17:36] jjesse: === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage [20:40] Good evening. Is there need for some more 4.10.3 testing? [20:44] lordievader: if you're on precise or quantal I would appreciate it. I just did a quick test in a VM, but that's all the testing it got [20:44] Only got Raring and Saucy here. [20:46] ah ok, we've got that covered [20:46] I didn't find any issues so I'll publish what I have and hope for the best [20:48] Ok, we do offer good support (in case things go wrong), if I say so myself :) === debfx_ is now known as debfx [21:29] ahoneybun: went through the About page [21:30] and if people still use aptitude, I guess leave it in -- but why don't we provide it by default anymore? [21:38] valorie: ahoneybun: no takeout aptitude [21:38] it's always been unsupported and we've always said it's not advised [21:38] so it really shouldn't be in there [21:38] cool [21:39] I love yanking stuff [21:39] and seriously, we talk about how to install and use alien? [21:39] fine to document, but not in beginner user docs [21:40] /wn 1 [21:41] Ooops [21:43] valorie: kill that too [21:45] cool [21:46] and do we still have liveCDs, or only LiveDVDs? [21:46] I thought we went to dvd only [21:46] no CD [21:46] cool [21:46] only a live image [21:46] which can be put on a dvd or usb drive [21:47] you are very lllly today [21:47]