=== mhall119|away is now known as mhall119 === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === jussi01 is now known as jussi === megha is now known as Guest401 === fabo_ is now known as fabo === figarocorso is now known as miky_jr === lag` is now known as lag === huats_ is now known as huats === meetingology` is now known as meetingology === bdrung_ is now known as bdrung === Riddelll is now known as Riddell === doko_ is now known as doko === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === megha is now known as Guest37767 === yofel_ is now known as yofel === debfx_ is now known as debfx === greyback is now known as greyback|lunch === ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube === cjohnston_ is now known as cjohnston === tiagohillebrandt is now known as tiagoscd === tiagoscd is now known as Guest73271 === Guest73271 is now known as tiagoscd === marlinc_ is now known as Marlinc === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|afk === greyback|lunch is now known as greyback === mmrazik|afk is now known as mmrazik === smoser` is now known as smoser === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler === mmrazik is now known as 18WADHGI8 === jsalisbury is now known as 18WADHL2Y === skaet is now known as 18WADHLGX === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === k1l_ is now known as Guest71204 === Guest71204 is now known as k1l === doko_ is now known as doko === ogasawara_ is now known as ogasawara === chuck_ is now known as zul === davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle === dgjones is now known as DJones === megha is now known as baba === mhall119_ is now known as mhall119 === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|afk [16:37] yes, it'll be awesome for confining apps in user mode [16:38] and after that, I'll continue going down the CVE list [16:38] and, of course, I will be attending uds [16:38] that's it from me, sbeattie, you're up [16:38] I'm again focused on apparmor related items this week, specifically focused on the security-s-appisolation-sdk blueprint [16:38] I'm currently working on getting easyprof to support json input [16:39] I'll also be attending uds this week [16:39] that's pretty much it for me... tyhicks? [16:39] I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-dbus-performance [16:39] I gathered performance numbers late friday and over the weekend and I'm analyzing them now [16:40] I need to circle back around to the dbus policy language thread on the apparmor list and see if we can get a consensus on how the dbus rules should be structured and then make those changes [16:41] ah yeah, I need to focus some more time there as well. [16:41] also, I'd like to start fixing one of the known performance problems in how we're doing the AA access checks in dbus [16:41] (and then rerun the tests) [16:41] I'll be attending UDS as well [16:41] that's it for me [16:42] sarnold: I think you're up and then we can come back to jj [16:43] I'm in the happy place this week; I'll be spenidng most of my time reviewing jj's patches, but I'll probably dust off my auto* and m4 knowledge and fake python 3 porting knowledge and review someof the patches sent last week .. or two weeks back .. [16:44] * tyhicks still needs to send a few prereq patches for dbus support in apparmor [16:44] I'm also going to look at mdeslaur's upstart patches, though earlier versions looked pretty well baked, it feels like that ought to go quickly [16:44] actually, we missed chrisccoulson [16:44] and I'll be doing UDS :) [16:44] ah, sorry, sarnold is still going (sorry) [16:44] chrisccoulson: you're up, hand the baton to jj when he shows up :) [16:45] hi :) [16:46] so, i spent some time last week getting more familiar with chrome, following the discussions from the sprint [16:46] i've put that to one side now to handle the regular firefox and thunderbird updates [16:46] which are nearly done [16:46] (woot) [16:47] although, been hitting a hang frequently in raring. it turns out this is a glib bug, and i think explains some of the recent bug reports i've been getting (bug 1179554) [16:47] bug 1179554 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "Firefox hang on start because ibus calls g_object_new inside a class_init function" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179554 [16:48] also, the arm builds failed because some jit tests timed out. i reproduced the same failures on my pandaboard at the weekend, and verified that lengthening the timeout fixes it [16:48] also working on an embargoed update [16:48] i think that's me done [16:48] jjohansen, i think it's your turn now :) [16:48] hey [16:49] so I will be working on my apparmor bp work items [16:49] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-s-appisolation-signals-ipc-ptrace [16:50] I have some prep to do for tomorrows apparmor IRC meeting === stgraber_ is now known as stgraber [16:51] and I need to finish finding/fixing a bug with the default profile, that made its way into the most recent devel kernels [16:52] I think that is it for /me [16:52] jdstrand: back to you [16:52] [TOPIC] Highlighted packages [16:52] The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. [16:52] See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved. [16:53] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tomboy.html [16:53] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmp.html [16:53] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pwlib.html [16:53] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-shell.html [16:53] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/inetutils.html [16:53] [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions [16:53] I had one for sbeattie: were you able to finish your easyprof templates? [16:54] jdstrand: not quite, still finishing those up as well [16:54] ok [16:54] Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss? [16:55] I'm curious about our proposed favored ssl/tls bindings in our SDK.. do we have an API there that's better than OpenSSL's for application authors to use? [16:56] do we get some nice ones for free with Qt/QML? or are they just thin wrappers around the painful API? :) [16:56] sarnold: Qt has some, yes [16:56] QML is just presentation, so it doesn't have anything [16:57] well, it is more than just presentation [16:58] but what I meant is that to get to the Qt SSL bits you need to write C++, but we don't expect many apps to be written in that (but it is there if they need it) [16:58] hrm. [16:59] the webkit view should just handle that all transparently [16:59] sarnold: it might be worth asking the sdk team about. they are quite responsive [16:59] for webby things, perhaps, but apps will likely have structured data that they want private and authenticated... [16:59] jdstrand: aha, got a favored contact? [17:00] sarnold: I'd go to bzoltan [17:00] jdstrand: thanks :) [17:00] np [17:01] mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks! [17:01] #endmeeting [17:01] thanks jdstrand :) [17:01] thanks jdstrand [17:01] jdstrand: thanks! === meetingology` is now known as meetingology === hallino1_ is now known as hallino1 === marlinc_ is now known as Marlinc === Sp4rKy_ is now known as Sp4rKy === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === meetingology` is now known as meetingology === io is now known as IdleOne === chiluk` is now known as chiluk === mcs_ is now known as matt_symes === stokachu_ is now known as stokachu === yofel_ is now known as yofel === ogasawara_ is now known as ogasawara === ScottK2 is now known as ScottK [19:56] hello [20:01] oh, so mdz and cjwatson are out [20:01] o/ [20:01] kees, stgraber: ? [20:04] * stgraber waves [20:06] hm, so cjwatson was chair originally, and seems kees is out, too [20:06] so I guess I'm next in line [20:07] #startmeeting [20:07] pitti: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. [20:07] oh [20:07] hm, who started this? [20:07] meetingology: help [20:07] pitti: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. [20:07] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [20:07] Meeting ended Mon May 13 20:07:45 2013 UTC. [20:07] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-16.31.moin.txt [20:07] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-16.31.html [20:07] ah, merci [20:07] #startmeeting [20:07] Meeting started Mon May 13 20:07:53 2013 UTC. The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [20:07] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [20:08] #topic action review === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review [20:08] * pitti looks for "See previous meeting " [20:08] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/April doesn't exist [20:09] nor https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/13/April [20:09] assuming "no actions"; stgraber, soren, do you remember any? [20:09] I don't even remember whether I was there :-/ [20:10] #topic SRU request for custom unity-greeter indicators === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: SRU request for custom unity-greeter indicators [20:10] (mopping up mailing list now) [20:10] I already replied on the ML; soren, stgraber, do you have any objections/points to discuss ther? [20:10] e [20:10] No, I've got half a reply written up already anyway. [20:11] pitti: last meeting was 10min long, no action and no agenda [20:11] pitti: I'm fine with discussing on the mailing-list [20:11] formally, one ack is enough anyway, but more opinions can't hurt [20:12] #topic openssl as a system library === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: openssl as a system library [20:12] TBH, I read the mail and half of Colin's reply, but I must say this legal mock attacking is slightly beyond me :/ [20:13] I find the Debian stanza way too extreme; I consider this incompatibility a bug, it has obviously not been designed to exclude free software from using each other; but I have no legally sound counterarguments [20:15] Fedora considers it a system library, right? [20:15] yes [20:15] Or did I misunderstand that somehow? [20:15] Ok. [20:16] this is exactly the kind of legal loophole which indicates to me that this whole conflict is just an unintended side effect (aka bug) of the two licenses [20:16] I've been inclined to agree, but ISTR Colin having sound arguments against it. [20:16] I'm curious whether there has been any actual uproar from OpenSSL's upstreams about linking with GPL programs [20:16] pitti: oh actually my statement that the past meeting was 10min long and without action/agenda was wrong, that was the one before last. Last meeting was during the Canonical sprint and did happen, though it looks like Colin didn't get to post the minutes. [20:17] Well, the conflict between the licenses it pretty clear. [20:17] I wouldn't like to come to a conclusion about this without cjwatson, so I propose to move that to the next meeting and/or email [20:17] GPL clearly says that you can't put forth further restrictions, while the OpenSSL license says that you must include some notice about it being used. [20:18] so based on what I saw on the mailing-lists and discussed in person with cjwatson last week, it sounds like squid may be a case where it's fine to allow linking with SSL on the basis that upstream is fine with this but can't reach all copyright holders to add the exception [20:18] soren: yes, but the GPL itself enforces the mentioning of the license/copyright of the program, so in practice it's the very same "restriction" [20:18] for the other one (mongo I believe), IIRC upstream clearly stated in the bug report that they're not willing to change the license and that someone should contact their legal or sales department [20:18] which makes it sound like this is a case where we really shouldn't let it link against SSL [20:19] so forcing distributors to mention the GPL and copyright while denying it to software using different FOSS licenses doesn't make sense [20:19] stgraber: yes, I know; as I said, I have no firm legal arguments against that, but it still feels just plain stupid and against the spirit of the licenses [20:20] cf. bug in the licenses [20:20] pitti: IIRC, GPL doesn't force you to do that. It says "should", doesn't it? [20:20] pitti: It doesn't even do that. [20:21] it is a must clause for interactive programs at least [20:21] pitti: It says that that's how you apply the license to your program. It's not a requirement of the license itself. [20:23] They're instructions for licensors. [20:23] anyway, I agree with pitti that we definitely want to have cjwatson present before we make a decision on this, so should probably defer to the next meeting (unless we can come to an agreement on the mailing-list) [20:23] well, how is "applying a license to a program" any different than "the license itself" [20:23] Not requirements of the licensee. [20:24] ok, so let's carry this to the next meeting then, I'll put it on the agenda [20:24] Very well. [20:24] #topic SRU approved without waiting in unapproved === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: SRU approved without waiting in unapproved [20:24] that was Riddell's request [20:24] I responded by email already [20:25] Yo did? [20:25] in short, I'd consider it an invalid workaround for long SRU waiting queues, and replacing one problem with a much worse one [20:25] I didn't see a response from you. Not that I recall at least. [20:25] Nope. [20:25] Nothing. [20:25] oh? [20:25] Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 13:25:48 +0200 [20:25] From: Martin Pitt [20:25] I see it [20:25] orly? [20:25] Weird. [20:26] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-May/001615.html [20:26] Never received that. How odd. [20:26] I agree that we have one problem which is the time it takes for something to hit -proposed but the way to fix that is with more people looking at the queue not by bypassing it [20:26] anyway, if anything I think this should be discussed with the SRU team instead of circumventing peer review [20:27] yeah, the turnaround should not exceed half or perhaps one week === wright.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [20:28] I'll mail the SRU team and discuss with them, with TB in CC: [20:28] sounds good [20:29] #action pitti to start ubuntu-sru delay discussion by email [20:29] ACTION: pitti to start ubuntu-sru delay discussion by email [20:29] #topic brain storm review === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: brain storm review [20:29] it's May again [20:30] but I think the last round already showed that there is very little interest from developers in this [20:31] we just got some five responses, and none of them resulted in anything actionable AFAIR [20:31] * pitti tries to check wiki, but it currently times out [20:32] does someone volunteer to do another round? or should we just bin this, as it has by and large been replaced with design driven development anyway these days? [20:33] I think it's time to bin this [20:33] If we do stop doing it, we should probably close brainstorm as well. [20:34] Otherwise, it's just going to be where ideas go to die. [20:34] Even moreso than it was before. [20:34] comparing the absolute numbers of voters from my december 2012 review to the ones I saw a year or two before that also showed radical decline of users [20:34] I'd be pretty happy with that considering nobody maintains it anyway and bug reports are piling up (it's on a very old Drupal version, full of bugs and requires quite a lot of work to be ported to something supported) [20:34] ack [20:36] ok, so we agree on that: stop brainstorm reviews and brainstorm itself [20:36] yep [20:36] Can we even make that decision? [20:36] (the latter, I mean) [20:36] well, we can at least propose it [20:36] not sure who "owns" that [20:36] * soren neither [20:36] that = brainstorm.u.c. [20:36] probably the CC. [20:36] well, I'm probably as close to an owner as can be for brainstorm (having started the project and being the only one still vaguely around) [20:36] yeah, good point; I'll mail them [20:37] Nope. [20:37] Ubuntu QA set it up, apparently. [20:37] http://netsplit.com/2008/02/28/ubuntu-brainstorm-announced/ [20:37] soren: correct, brainstorm was initially part of the same service as the QA tracker [20:37] ah, Ubuntu community QA -- ok, I'll forward the proposal to balloons then [20:38] balloons: if you are online, do you have a gut feeling about the fate of brainstorm.u.c.? [20:38] * balloons floats in [20:38] anyway, AFAIK I'm the only admin left for brainstorm and the only few times I logged in recently was to purge some data after IS assigned me some tickets [20:39] I can take the item to close it/sunset it [20:39] it was assigned to me a while back [20:39] and everyone who set it up that I used to work with is gone [20:40] jcastro: it seems both developers and most users have lost their interest in it (not that surprising given how the design process of Ubuntu changed over the years) [20:40] yeah [20:40] it's always been an odd site [20:40] pitti, jcastro and stgraber are correct.. It's a nest of unmaintainedness [20:40] * balloons notes that's not a word [20:40] so how do I go about doing this, propose on -devel and go from there? [20:41] jcastro: right, I just had a quick look at when the other admin logged in and they clearly don't seem very active ;) nand logged in 28 weeks ago so I'm apparently the most active admin with 3 logins this year ;) [20:41] jcastro, balloons: ok, seems we all agree then; can we hand stgraber or you the task to shut it down? [20:41] yeah [20:41] I'll take the task, stgraber has more important things to do. :) [20:41] heh [20:41] thank you [20:41] we'll need to mention the proper avenues to push ideas.. aka, join in UDS, mailing lists, etc [20:41] * soren hugs jcastro [20:41] #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed [20:41] did I miss anything? [20:41] balloons: yeah I'll handle all of that. [20:41] jcastro: thanks! let me know if you need any detail on how to actually kill that thing (if we need to extract/archive any data from it) [20:42] stgraber: I'd like to see if we can do a readonly dump of it or something, I'll ask IS [20:43] #topic community bugs === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: community bugs [20:43] zarro [20:43] #topic chair for next meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: chair for next meeting [20:43] carrying over cjwatson? [20:43] #topic AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [20:43] no, he chaired the last meeting [20:43] (during the sprint) [20:43] oh, ok; kees then [20:44] un [20:44] deux [20:45] trois [20:45] le fin [20:45] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [20:45] Meeting ended Mon May 13 20:45:22 2013 UTC. [20:45] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-20.07.moin.txt [20:45] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-20.07.html [20:45] thanks everyone! [20:45] thanks pitti! [21:31] * Daviey curses himself for missing the meeting. === adam_g_ is now known as adam_g === shirgall is now known as Guest10813 === shirgall_ is now known as shirgall