[14:46]  * Jiaowen520Li slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout
[15:06] <tedg> The bot really needs a countdown.
[15:06] <tedg> On your marks...
[15:06] <tedg> get set...
[15:06] <tedg> go!
[15:08] <lool> JohnLea: would you mind muting
[15:08] <lool> or actually, woudl everyone except thomas mute?  :-)
[15:08] <lool> thanks!
[15:08] <dobey> could people who isn't speaking mute themselves and only unumute when speaking?
[15:09] <tedg> Can we get control of muting in IRC?  ;-)
[15:09] <dobey> right
[15:10] <tedg> jasoncwarner, I think you've selected tvoss_ manually.
[15:10] <tedg> Please switch to auto switching.
[15:10] <pmcgowan> tvoss_, maybe you ^^
[15:11] <tvoss_> pmcgowan, I cannot do that
[15:12] <davmor2> tvoss_: the john is talking but we only see your face
[15:12] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure users will be able to remember what application a particular photo is stored in
[15:13] <JoshStrobl> davmor2: tvoss_ can not change it.
[15:13] <brunogirin> mdeslaur: exactly, it's not intuitive either, I just want to select a photo, not an item in an application
[15:13] <d0od_irc> brunogirin: +1
[15:14] <tedg> It seems that it needs to be content focused instead of application focused.
[15:14] <JoshStrobl> I concur
[15:16] <mdeslaur> "Did I take that picture with the built-in camera, or with Instagram??"
[15:17] <brunogirin> scopes and lenses are content focused so making the rest of it application focused feels like a step backwards
[15:17] <davmor2> store all images in one folder called images and then let the individual apps build their own db on how to display them, maybe?
[15:17] <JoshStrobl> I like Filler's approach.
[15:17] <lool> brunogirin: +1
[15:18] <lool> brunogirin: I also feel this contradiction a bit
[15:18] <notclive> what ensures that all files are associated with an application?
[15:20] <alecu> BFiller: I think the problem is not storing new pictures in a shared folder, but "Do you want random-rogue-app to access your pictures?"
[15:20] <JackYu_> +1
[15:20] <bfiller> alecu: that would have to some controls on who is allowed to access the shared pictures folder
[15:21] <lool> alecu: that's a problem in any case, but how do we handle multiple apps creating pictures?
[15:21] <lool> or replacing the default gallery app with another one
[15:21] <pipe2> hello  how to impre  important content types
[15:21] <gusch> should this apply for the desktop as well?
[15:22] <pipe2> great
[15:22] <lool> gusch: eventually it should
[15:22] <JoshStrobl> I like this Langridge guy :D
[15:22] <pmcgowan> yes there needs to be copies
[15:22] <gusch> lool:that whould mean to break looots of existing apps/functionality
[15:22] <mdeslaur> ugh, copies are evil
[15:23] <mdeslaur> asking the user to expert data between applications isn't very elegant
[15:23] <lool> JohnLea: can one remove the default gallery app entirely, and what happens to your photos if you do?
[15:24] <pmcgowan> lool, I would expect no
[15:24] <bfiller> lool: you shouldn't be able to do that
[15:25] <mdeslaur> but then you can't browse all your pictures from facebook
[15:25] <lool> jdstrand: like scopes and lenses to browse data from all apps?
[15:25] <pipe2> sugesst can define user like UI for app on dash
[15:25] <lool> s/data/photos/
[15:26] <jdstrand> lool: yeah, I guess one could think of it that way. like I  said, I hadn't thought it all through
[15:26] <brunogirin> in this case, allow the app to get access to the blessed repository for that type if no other app owns it yet
[15:27] <gusch> bfiller lool is very active - he might be invited to the hangout
[15:27] <pipe2> can define user like UI for scope on dash
[15:28] <JoshStrobl> Not everyone uses Instagram...
[15:28] <dobey> has anyone in the hangout used WebOS on any real level beyond looking at a demo?
[15:28] <gusch> and a separate photo editor
[15:29] <pipe2> I develop music scope for China but Chinese do not like UI,so can define user like UI for scope?
[15:29] <mdeslaur> a lot of people take pictures with the built in camera, with facebook, with instagram, depending on what happens to be open at the time
[15:29] <alecu> jdstrand: different levels of review make sense to me, since an app that want to replace the default gallery may need more review than a game that won't be touching the user's personal stuff.
[15:29] <mmcc> Hi, in case this is useful - I've been working with the iOS photos API recently - on iOS, there's one global photo roll and a default 'images' app. Other apps ask for permission to access (read, add-new) the photo roll. apps can not delete anything, but they can edit the data of images that *they added*.
[15:29] <lool> gusch, bfiller: (Thanks, I'm in)
[15:30] <bfiller> lool: cool
[15:30] <dobey> mdeslaur: right, photos are special because they're valid for almost every type of app on a phone to use
[15:30] <brunogirin> mdeslaur: and if I have an app to modify my photos, it may have been taken first time round by the camera then the update will be owned by another app
[15:30] <mdeslaur> mmcc: interesting
[15:30] <jdstrand> alecu: ack, and that's fine, however we don't want to promote situations that require extensive review
[15:30] <bfiller> mmcc: exactly
[15:30] <bfiller> mmcc: that's what I was getting at
[15:30] <dobey> also, games and other things might even have a "screenshot" feature which doesn't actually use the camera, but stores pictures somewhere
[15:31] <brunogirin> mmcc: sounds a sensible way to do things
[15:31] <dobey> don't know if the base system provides a screenshot feature or not
[15:31] <JoshStrobl> dobey -> generally screenshot utilities come with the system / distro. Ubuntu does.
[15:31] <pipe2> i agree
[15:32] <aquarius_uds> agreed, dobey: an imgur app, for example, or a facebook app are also potentially *sources* of images
[15:32] <dobey> JoshStrobl: ubuntu touch is a little different than ubuntu as you know it though
[15:32] <dobey> aquarius_uds: right
[15:32] <mmcc> one last minor iOS point : there's a special consideration for 'modification' on iOS - there's a call to save a new image that is a modified version of an existing image. This lets an image editor "edit" images that it didn't create...
[15:32] <JoshStrobl> Oh course dobey, however I do expect it'd be baked into Ubuntu Phone.
[15:33] <tvoss_> tedg, scarf -> done!!
[15:33] <dobey> JoshStrobl: sure. but your expectation and the actual thing might not match up. so it's a relevent question to ask. assuming it will be a certain way is bad :)
[15:34]  * tedg feels warmer already
[15:34] <dobey> JoshStrobl: and regardless, games often have a "take a picture" thing in-game, which is separate from the system screenshot feature
[15:34] <lool> JohnLea: feedback loop from your microphone
[15:34] <dobey> and i'd highly suggest looking at what WebOS does with content types in applications
[15:35] <gusch> I still don't know why a descent content picker UI should requests a totally new data management. Those two are pretty different imho
[15:35] <JoshStrobl> JohnLea!
[15:35] <JohnLea> I'm muted now
[15:36] <brunogirin> JohnLea: or a photo editing app
[15:36] <bfiller> gusch: what do you mean?
[15:36] <alecu> There should be no separate content pickers, we already have one and it's the dash. A new content picker should be just a new dash plugin
[15:37] <dobey> alecu: why would you go back to the dash from within an app to select a picture to attach to an SMS for example?
[15:37] <alecu> that way every app that needs to operate on a picture will indirectly ask the user for permission by opening the dash
[15:37] <alecu> dobey: it should be opened again by the system, because it's the blessed way to search for pictures
[15:38] <alecu> dobey: I mean, for any kind of content.
[15:39] <dobey> i think that would be bad, perhaps less so on phones, but ore so on tablets, and much worse on workstations
[15:39] <gusch> bfiller:I mean there is no need for a new "data layer" for providing a "content picker"
[15:39] <lool> bfiller: the discussion covered a lot of interesting point, but I'm not sure we've taken a decision on having central databases + per-app databases vs. only per-app databases -- or did we?
[15:39] <lool> *points
[15:41] <bfiller> lool: I think we're saying per-app to start, with the ability to have per-app + central in the future
[15:41] <brunogirin> dobey: it doesn't have to be the full dash, just a dash "control" that allows you to find the file
[15:41] <lool> tvoss_: just a point on avoiding to show downloaded photos when browsing your own photos: this could be implemented either by tagging the photos in some way (e.g. metadata such as the app which created this photo), or with simple concepts such as albums
[15:42]  * tedg is a little concerned that we're 42 m in and there's nothing in the Etherpad
[15:42] <lool> tedg: ah exactly
[15:43] <gusch> no
[15:43] <kenvandine> tedg, and no work items
[15:44] <gusch> just exposing the directory Pictures to mtp is ok - isn't it?
[15:47] <dobey> JohnLea: can you maybe turn off video stream or something? you're very stuttery due to bandwidth it seems
[15:48] <JohnLea> dobey; it's switched off!
[15:48] <JohnLea> dobey; yes, bandwidth seems to have gone rubbish :-(
[15:48] <dobey> JohnLea: thanks. it was off but then came back when you were just speaking. i see its off again now though :)
[15:50] <dobey> aquarius_uds: probably a good thing to discuss in the next session about background tasks :)
[15:50] <jdstrand> tvoss_: fyi, I am able to use etherpad by pausing the video in that page while having google+ in another window
[15:51] <tvoss_> jdstrand, cool, thank you ... didn't work for me
[15:51] <jdstrand> tvoss_: it took a few tries to get it to actually pause, but eventually it worked
[15:51] <pipe2> thank you
[15:51] <jdstrand> :)
[15:53] <lool> JohnLea: muted maybe?
[15:53] <lool> JohnLea: lots of lag
[15:53] <JohnLea> can you hear me?
[15:53] <lool> JohnLea: we can
[15:53] <lool> JohnLea: just 5s later  :-)
[15:54] <pipe2> good bye
[15:57] <alecu> QUESTION: how will file synchronization apps (u1, dropbox) access the different silos?
[15:57] <pmcgowan> tvoss_, ^^ this is similar to mtp needs
[15:58] <jdstrand> tvoss_: I put in a few things to seed the therpad :)
[15:59] <alecu> thank you all!
[16:07] <Guest83719> have we started yet? I have no video
[16:13] <tedg> mfisch, Yes (just in case you still don't)
[16:14] <mfisch> tedg: got it now, 4 reloads of the page were needed
[16:17] <sforshee> a push notification service would allow something like an IM client to maintain some sort of connection while still allowing the phone to suspend
[16:22] <mfisch> what was the 3rd thing Chicken said?
[16:22] <sforshee> how are we going to allow the phone to suspend while maintaining network connections?
[16:24] <tedg> tvoss_, We could require an app indicator for arbitrary stuff as well.
[16:24] <tedg> Basically only allow background if you do.
[16:25] <tvoss_> tedg, +1 :)
[16:27] <ritz__> how about multi-window support ?
[16:27] <ritz__> when two windows are in foreground
[16:28] <ritz__> or multiple  floating windows
[16:29] <lool> in the first ubuntu touch iteration, a single foreground app is running
[16:31] <ritz__> yup
[16:31] <ritz__> thanks :)
[16:31] <faisal-ali> On the issue of downloading, how much control of the download would we give the application? Or would we just allow them to "request"?
[16:32] <tvoss_> faisal-ali, it comes down to a request, plus option to cancel
[16:33] <faisal-ali> okay
[16:39]  * lool drops to other meeting
[16:40] <cking> nice one
[17:49] <diwic> next session is about OSK. What does OSK stand for?
[17:55] <mfisch> on screen keyboard
[17:55] <mfisch> diwic: ^
[18:02] <diwic> mfisch, thanks
[18:14] <pmcgowan> kgunn, how much of the existing maliit server are we able to drop?
[18:15] <pmcgowan> tvoss|dinner_lun,  ^^
[18:19] <Saviq> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-1305-unity-ui-unity8-osk
[18:19] <pmcgowan> yes
[18:19] <pmcgowan> and what of other keyboard options, 3rd party
[18:20] <pmcgowan> right
[18:22] <pmcgowan> yes that was my question
[18:24] <pmcgowan> ok!
[18:25] <pmcgowan> kgunn, I somewhat expected mir guys to at least guide it if not do it
[18:27] <kgunn> pmcgowan: ack...
[18:27] <kgunn> pmcgowan: its why i aske
[18:27] <kgunn> asked
[18:37] <tvoss> pmcgowan, sure, guidance needs to be given by Mir/Shell team, working closely together with tmoenicke
[18:37] <pmcgowan> kgunn, I added the green
[18:37] <pmcgowan> the planned section
[18:39] <pmcgowan> kgunn, those are settings options
[18:39] <pmcgowan> kgunn, do we intend the mir integration for v1
[18:41] <netcurli> will there be different keyboard layouts by default? like qwertz for German
[18:41] <pmcgowan> yes there should be
[18:42] <pmcgowan> kgunn, sounds like yes
[18:44] <tmoenicke> netcurli: yes
[18:44] <netcurli> ok
[18:44] <pmcgowan> bye