[05:48] <rml_home_> numpty question:  If I have 50 files names *_OLD_* and want them to end up as *_NEW_* is there a bash one-liner to rename them?
[06:27] <dwatkins> rml_home_: assuming there are no duplicate names you might overwrite, try: for i in *_OLD_* ; mv “$i” “${i/_OLD_/_NEW_}” ; done
[06:56] <rml_home_> dwatkins: thanks!  I shall give it a twirl
[06:58] <rml_home_> sorry for delayed response, was on the school run :)
[06:58] <directhex> that would work fine, assuming no filenames have a space in
[07:19] <rml_home_> yay!  all sorted!  Thanks
[07:25] <dwatkins> excellent, rml_home_ :)
[07:29] <MooDoo> morning
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't the world a funny place sometimes? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130513135507864
[07:34] <dwatkins> indeed, TheOpenSourcerer - I would have expected that sort of thing in theUS, not Germany
[08:20] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning
[08:25] <diplo> Morning
[08:26] <dwatkins> morning!
[08:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Dance Like A Chicken Day! :-D http://youtu.be/9aKd_vQTwpw
[08:39]  * DJones does the funky chicken
[08:39]  * dwatkins swings a chicken in the air
[08:40] <DJones> Beat me too that one
[08:44]  * dwatkins hands DJones a deckchair
[09:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:07] <MooDoo> morning
[09:07] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:08] <DJones> I know this is Microsoft releated, but can anybody recommend a standalone twitter app, I don't like viewing in a web browser, I just want something I can have a small window on the desktop that does realtime updates, Ideally something like the Friends app or Polly etc
[10:10] <directhex> which browser do you use?
[10:10] <DJones> Normally chrome
[10:10] <mungbean> hotot
[10:11] <directhex> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cnfkkfleeiooolklkgkmigodkmcopnji
[10:11] <DJones> Ah, Destroytwitter is the one I used to use
[10:11] <MooDoo> DJones: try echofon
[10:11] <MooDoo> actually ignore that
[10:11] <dwatkins> DJones: I used to use bitlbee and irssi, perhaps not the best graphical client, but it was amusing to watch
[10:12] <dwatkins> if you had a Mac, I'd reccomend Itsy.
[10:12] <mgdm> I couldn't imagine using anything other that irssi for IRC, but I couldn't ever use it for IM or Twitter
[10:12] <dwatkins> I setup bitlbee at home just for fun, it was amusing, but I prefer a GUI for IM myself too, so I can click links and send and receive files easily.
[10:13] <mungbean> i use adnroid for twitter
[10:13] <mungbean> check it every 2 or 3 days
[10:13] <dwatkins> there's a waterfall twitter site that shows constant updates if you really want to see what everyone's saying
[10:13] <dwatkins> http://twitterfall.com/
[10:14] <dwatkins> I guess you could run that in another browser, e.g. Chromium
[10:14] <DJones> I'm going with destroytwitter, used to use mahtweets but that became abandonware
[10:15] <DJones> Thanks for the suggestions though
[10:45] <BigRedS> rml_home_: Bit late, but you might want ot look at the 'rename' command
[10:48] <rml_home_> thanks BigRedS.  I actually used some piping to sed in the end.  All done now though.  I was just too sleepy first thing to think straight
[10:58] <andylock1an> howdy folks
[10:58] <andylock1an> many, been a while since I've beeen here :(
[10:58] <dwatkins> Cmdr Hadfield has returned to earth http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=163032701
[10:59] <andylock1an> howdy
[10:59] <popey> howdy howdy howdy
[10:59] <BigRedS> rml_home_: yeah, rename is a much-underrated/underused command IMO
[10:59] <dwatkins> allo andylock1an, how do?
[10:59] <andylock1an> oops
[10:59] <andylock1an> I was scrolled up
[10:59] <andylockran> not bad - looking for employment in London.
[10:59] <popey> doing wot?
[11:00] <andylockran> popey: Project Management
[11:00] <andylockran> experience with PCI DSS, ISO 2700x & agency development work
[11:00] <popey> http://blog.songkick.com/jobs/
[11:00] <popey> "Even if you don’t fit into one of the roles above, get in touch with us anyway if you love live music and get obsessed with solving interesting problems. We’re always looking for good people."
[11:01] <andylockran> Thanks popey!
[11:02] <popey> friend of mine works there
[11:02] <andylockran> thanks for the headsup.
[11:02] <popey> np
[11:05] <popey> just checked with him, they have no project manager positions, product manager is closest ☻
[11:08] <andylockran> yeah; it looks closest but would require 3 years product management experience - I'l send the CV over so at least they have it on file.
[11:14] <andylockran> done
[11:41] <davmor2> google image atari breakout that will kill your free time off for now :)
[11:58] <czajkowski> addictive
[12:02] <popey> or "addicting" as those loony yanks say
[12:08] <mungbean> "know that feel"
[13:46] <mink> Hi. Anyone know how enable functionality on gnome desktop (ubuntu), in workspaces, when I scroll on thumbnails of workspaces then should switch to next/prev workspace.
[13:47] <mink> It's working for me before, but yesterday I reinstall ubuntu and I can't switch workspaces on that way
[13:56] <BigRedS> Do you know if your version of Gnome has changed? They've been removing that sort of functionality recently, you might've inadvertently upgraded? Did you reinstall to the same verion of Ubuntu?
[13:56] <BigRedS> I've not got a Gnome-shell handy with which to check whether I can do that
[16:39] <ali1234> has anyone actually used gnome-terminal 3.9?
[16:40] <ali1234> i can't get it to run here as they have added loads of dependencies
[16:40] <ali1234> instead of a single stand alone application it is now a client/server system that requires dbus to run
[16:40] <ali1234> instead of gnome-terminal you now get gnome-terminal-client, gnome-terminal-server, and gnome-terminal-migration
[16:41] <directhex> :D
[16:42] <directhex> amazing
[16:42] <mgdm> double yew tee eff
[16:42] <mgdm> are they reinventing tmux or something?
[16:43] <ali1234> no, the end result is actually has less configuration options than it did before
[16:43] <ali1234> this is supposed to make the code easier to maintain
[16:47] <ali1234> it also has a plugin for nautilus
[16:48] <ali1234> so instead of patching nautilus to open the user's prefered terminal
[16:48] <ali1234> instead the patched gnome-terminal to add a nautilus extension that opens gnome-terminal and only gnome-terminal
[16:48] <popey> delightful
[16:49] <popey> is this the new world order of cloud apps?
[16:49] <ali1234> no this is "opinionated software" - i believe you work for one of the pioneers of that?
[16:50] <directhex> my opinion is "bees :("
[16:50] <ali1234> here's a good change
[16:51] <ali1234> they changed the default colour scheme from black text on brown to green text on black
[16:51] <ali1234> white text would have been better but never mind
[16:52] <popey> i was more asking why the client/server split
[16:52] <ali1234> because opinions are good and users are idiots1!!
[16:53] <ali1234> actually i don't know because i can't run the thing
[16:53] <ali1234> which is why i asked if anyone has used it
[16:54] <popey> what does it run on? Fedora 19?
[16:54] <ali1234> i don't know
[16:54] <ali1234> i just tried to build the git
[16:54] <ali1234> probably fedora is a good bet
[17:18] <Azelphur> well that was fun, I just filed a police report against a bank o.O
[17:18] <Azelphur> for theft lol
[17:19] <Azelphur> that got them moving ;)
[17:19] <christel> i say!
[17:19] <Azelphur> the bank manager was so close to getting arrested
[17:19] <mgdm> why?
[17:20] <Azelphur> someone bought some BTC from me and is either trying chargeback fraud or using a stolen account, so Santander decided the clever thing to do was to freeze my entire account for two weeks
[17:20] <Azelphur> lots of lies about when it'll be resolved, lies from the branch manager, etc, with me complying all the way through, told them that this 48 hours they promised it would be resolved in would be the last time, and of course this morning it's still not resolved like they promised...
[17:21] <Azelphur> so, police report for theft as they told me the funds would be available 2 weeks ago and they still arn't
[17:21] <Azelphur> I ended up with the entire police department in the reception listening in as one of the detectives phoned the bank and told them off, was epic.
[17:22] <Azelphur> they managed to make a sane agreement now that they were on the verge of being arrested :P
[17:22] <brobostigon> lol
[17:23] <brunogirin> Azelphur: brilliant! I'm sure the plods enjoyed doing that too :-)
[17:24] <Azelphur> I told them I was going to the police station and they thought I was kidding, I got a callback 3 minutes later while I was in the car.
[17:24] <Azelphur> and they are like where are you...in a car on the way to the police station
[17:24] <Azelphur> xD
[17:28] <ali1234> you sure do like causing trouble...
[17:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: what can I say, I'm a troublemaker.
[17:30] <Azelphur> although if they didn't try to steal 14k off me I wouldn't be causing any trouble.
[17:30] <Azelphur> I cause trouble to people who cause me trouble ;)
[17:30] <ali1234> why can't yo air gap it?
[17:31] <Azelphur> air gap?
[17:31] <ali1234> make a company account
[17:31] <ali1234> then make another company account at another bank under a different company
[17:31] <Azelphur> I already have a business account now
[17:31] <ali1234> when someone sends you money by bank transfer immediately withdraw it in cash, take it to second bank
[17:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I've been tempted to do that, especially for large transactions.
[17:32] <ali1234> they now cannot ever freeze more than 1 transaction
[17:32] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:32] <czajkowski> Azelphur: it's never ever simple with you
[17:33] <Azelphur> haha
[17:33] <Azelphur> what can I say I lead an eventful life
[17:33]  * mgdm makes a note to avoid business with Azelphur 
[17:33] <mgdm> just in case, you know :)
[17:33] <Azelphur> It was pretty simple really, the bank asked for evidence, I gave them everything they wanted, they refused to even look at the evidence they asked for and were just generally useless for 2 weeks solid
[17:33] <Azelphur> I gave them every chance to put it right
[17:35] <czajkowski> Azelphur: I swear you bring it on yourself tbh
[17:35] <Azelphur> czajkowski: well, if you class bitcoin trading as bringing it on myself, perhaps so yes.
[17:35] <czajkowski> oh then yes I do :)
[17:35] <czajkowski> hows the landlord situation ?
[17:36] <Azelphur> but then, if nobody tried anything new, the world would be a pretty sad place.
[17:36] <Azelphur> czajkowski: oh great, I moved.
[17:36] <Azelphur> new landlord is awesome.
[17:36] <Azelphur> new apartment is awesome too.
[17:36] <directhex> old landlord was hanged
[17:36] <directhex> for crimes against Azelphur
[17:37]  * czajkowski starts taking bets on when there will be issues with Azelphur new place
[17:37] <czajkowski> do I have 3 months anyone
[17:37] <Azelphur> directhex: working on that, once I got the bank stuff sorted out I plan to take him to small claims and show him what for too :)
[17:37] <Azelphur> czajkowski: haha, it's not like I made a dispute for myself there...
[17:37] <directhex> czajkowski, 78 days
[17:38] <Azelphur> czajkowski: I found at least 5 other people all of whom had major repair issues under that landlord, I had no oven for 5 months (since I moved in) that's hardly my fault :P
[17:38] <Azelphur> apart from perhaps poor apartment selection.
[17:38] <diddledan> I blame the white mice
[17:38]  * czajkowski takes 78 days fom Azelphur 
[17:38] <Azelphur> lol
[17:38] <Azelphur> blame poor Azelphur for all the problems :<
[17:39] <diddledan> oh well if you insist.. it's Azelphur 's fault
[17:39] <ali1234> czajkowski does not like it when people stand up for themselves. why am i not surprised?
[17:39] <czajkowski> do I have 92 days
[17:39] <czajkowski> anyone
[17:39] <czajkowski> any takers
[17:39] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:39]  * czajkowski takes 110 days 
[17:39] <Azelphur> xD
[17:39] <mgdm> czajkowski: I'll tkae 92
[17:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I think the thing with me is that I let people take advantage of me most of my life, and one day I just kinda snapped and said right, no more of this.
[17:40] <Azelphur> and now I take stuff as far as it needs to go to ensure nobody takes advantage of me.
[17:40] <czajkowski> mgdm: taken
[17:40] <ali1234> there are too many douchebags with zero personal resposibility in this world
[17:40] <ali1234> Azelphur: you are doing good work
[17:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: my thoughts exactly, thanks :)
[17:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: I gave the old neighbours my phone number too, I fully plan to keep helping them any way I can with the old Landlord battle, so I'm not out of that one :)
[17:42] <bashrc> There are many cowboys in the landlord business
[17:43] <diddledan> ok, someone explain what's the supposedly super special feature of Apple's "EarPods"? I mean apart from the fact they look uncomfortable
[17:43] <ali1234> link?
[17:43] <diddledan> erm
[17:44] <Azelphur> bashrc: yea
[17:44] <ali1234> they are just regular earphone
[17:44] <diddledan> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD827LL/A/apple-earpods-with-remote-and-mic
[17:44] <shauno> diddledan, as far as I gather, they're like java.  fits as many users as possible by being equally uncomfortable for everyone
[17:44] <ali1234> the remote probably has some extra proprietary buttons
[17:45] <ali1234> the method for doing that is patented by sony btw
[17:45] <ali1234> 1 wire with different resistances through each button and an adc
[17:46] <diddledan> go Sony
[17:46] <diddledan> I always liked Sony stuff
[17:47] <diddledan> stems from Dad furnishing our home with staff sales when I was a nipper
[17:47] <ali1234> they used to be good
[17:47] <ali1234> minidisc was good at the time
[17:48] <diddledan> the two biggest customers in the uk of sony stuff is 1) dixons group, 2) staff sales
[17:48]  * popey mourned the death of his Sony Trinitron FD-1
[17:49] <diddledan> I never really got the point of minidisk
[17:49] <diddledan> c*
[17:49] <ali1234> diddledan: it's basically a read/write CD player
[17:49] <diddledan> I guess because it didn't reach critical mass
[17:49] <ali1234> with magneto-optical disks
[17:50] <ali1234> it was just about to do that when mp3s and cheap flash showed up
[17:50] <ali1234> not really minidisc's fault
[17:50] <diddledan> is that a combined xman between magneto and cyclops? imagine the destruction!!
[17:50] <popey> my first mp3 player was a Diamond RIO
[17:50] <ali1234> i have one of those i think
[17:51] <ali1234> the very first one with like a 8 mb card
[17:51] <diddledan> 8MB, as in 2xMP3?
[17:51] <diddledan> :-p
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah
[17:52] <ali1234> it doesn't even have a display
[17:53] <mgdm> popey: I still have my Rio
[17:53] <popey> me too
[17:54] <popey> yeah, mine has a display
[17:54] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diamond_Rio_PMP300.jpg
[17:54] <ali1234> oh it's not one of those
[17:54] <ali1234> i don't know what i have
[17:54] <mgdm> I had to solder one of the battery connectors, but it still works, though I have nothing with a parallel port to put music on any more
[17:54] <popey> yeah, whacky connector that piggy-backs on parallel port
[17:55] <popey> pre-usb and pre-firewire
[17:55] <mgdm> one of my printers didn't get on with that
[17:55] <popey> ditto
[17:55] <popey> i should take a photo of mine, it looks way better than that pic
[17:56] <directhex> which was first, the rio pmp300 or the mpman?
[17:57] <mgdm> I *think* the mpman
[17:57] <directhex> looks like mpman
[17:57] <directhex> The MPMan was not well received by critics and consumers.[citation needed] The Rio PMP300, which was released soon afterward, was received better.[citation needed]
[17:57] <popey> mpman according to wikipedia
[17:58] <popey> ah there
[17:58] <popey> ooh, better picture
[17:58] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rio_pmp300.jpg
[18:01] <shauno> The RIAA's Associate Director of Anti-Copyright infringement initially said the MPMan had "no function other than playing material that was stolen from record companies". He later said it was "a unique device. It's something that we haven't seen on the market before"
[18:01] <shauno> sad to think that in 15 years, they haven't moved too far
[18:07] <BigRedS> we've moved hugely IMO
[18:07] <BigRedS> both Spotify and iTunesalikes are available, and they are the record industry actually using teh Interent
[18:07] <BigRedS> and the Internet, too
[18:08] <ali1234> i can't find it
[18:08] <ali1234> i remember it had a yellow front and no built in storage
[18:08] <shauno> I'm still very disappointed there's no second-hand market at all
[18:09] <BigRedS> no, it's not as good as it could be, but that's not to say it isn't better
[18:10] <BigRedS> I've stopped my dubious downloading because Spotify is easier
[18:10] <BigRedS> so it works, too. (at least in one case)
[18:11] <mgdm> They removed all of an artist I like from Spotify the other day, which is irritating, as I have the albums in question but they are a) on CD b) I have no CD drive in my day to day computer c) The CDs are 200 miles away in a box
[18:14] <davmor2> mgdm: sign up to a different service
[18:16] <shauno> completely OT, but any suggestions for an android equivalent of the ipod touch?  (eg, a very small tablet, phone form-factor without being a phone)
[18:16] <ali1234> ah found it http://content.hwigroup.net/images/old/reviews/000139-00.jpg
[18:16] <ali1234> it was like that but yellow
[18:16] <mgdm> davmor2: but I like the one I have, except for the lack of Four Tet :)
[18:17] <ali1234> seems to be from about 2002
[18:17] <Azelphur> I think talktalk might have goofed my fibre a bit too, before I moved they said I could get fibre, but now they say I can't, I asked BT if I can get fibre and they say I can xD
[18:20] <mgdm> call the police? :D
[18:20]  * mgdm flees
[18:20] <Azelphur> haha, nah it's probably just someone making a mistake somewhere :P
[18:20] <mgdm> A mistake in TalkTalk? Surely not
[18:20] <Azelphur> exactly. :P
[18:26] <ali1234> interesting
[18:26] <ali1234> so gnome-terminal sort of still supports transparency
[18:34] <ali1234> it looks to me like if you manually set the gsetting key for background colour, it accepts an alpha value
[18:34] <ali1234> i can't run it to test though
[18:44] <mgdm> I'd not mind so much if they got rid of features if they had a reasonable argument
[18:44] <mgdm> 'RESOLVED WONTFIX' with a comment of "No." is not a reasonable argument
[18:46] <diplo> Hi guys, trying to tail a file ( access log ) and want to grep for 2 ip's connecting to a specific area
[18:46] <diplo> Thought you could do something like tail -f logfile | grep name | egrep -v "ipaddr" | egrep -v "ipaddr"
[18:47] <diplo> Works with one, is there a way to filter for two easily ?
[18:47] <diplo> Failing at google foo at the mo
[18:47] <mgdm> remove the -vs?
[18:48] <mgdm> it seems you have them backwards - -v means "does not match"
[18:49] <brunogirin> tail -f logfile | grep name | grep -e ip1 -e ip2
[18:49] <diplo> Doesn't return anything then, if i remove one of the ips and do grep name| grep ip it works fine, if i add another grep returns nothing
[18:49] <diplo> ah, will try that ta
[18:49] <diplo> new one
[18:49] <diplo> :)
[18:50] <brunogirin> -e allows you to specify multiple patterns
[18:50] <brunogirin> I think
[18:50] <mgdm> in sed it does
[18:50] <mgdm> not sure about grep
[18:51] <brunogirin> mgdm you'd expect them to be consistent :-) maybe...
[18:51] <mgdm> in a logical world... :)
[18:51] <popey> Fools.
[18:51] <diplo> well it's returning the second one, going to double check the first ip is actually in the file :D
[18:52] <mgdm> however, you are correct, I just looked ;)
[18:52] <brunogirin> diplo: yes that would help, however if it's returning the 2nd one it's a good sign
[18:52] <diplo> OK great, thanks very much.. would have got there eventually but you speeded it up no end. ta fanx!
[18:52] <brunogirin> popey: I'm sure normality will be restored shortly
[18:53] <brunogirin> diplo no prob
[18:54] <popey> ☻
[18:57] <ali1234> the worst part is that the people who want the softwar to stay the same end up having to fork under a new name, while the people who are making massively intrusive changes get to keep working on the original project
[18:58] <ali1234> if gnome-shell was done as a fork it would have less users than mint right now
[18:58] <ali1234> sorry, mate
[18:59] <popey> no idea how many users mate / gs / cinnamon have really
[18:59] <popey> hard to tell
[18:59] <ali1234> none basically
[18:59] <ali1234> except for gnome shell which has all fedora users
[18:59] <ali1234> but that is only because of this reason
[19:00] <popey> how many users does fedora have?
[19:00] <popey> it's tens of millions?
[19:01] <dwatkins> depends on your definition of users, popey.
[19:03] <popey> people who by any normal usage of the term "users" are users.
[19:03] <popey> i.e. people who use it
[19:03] <ali1234> people who use it as a desktop OS
[19:03] <ali1234> if you want to know how many users gs has
[19:03] <popey> yeah
[19:03] <ali1234> i doubt it's tens of millions
[19:03] <diddledan> 3 and susan on the weekends
[19:03] <diplo> Didn't work  :) thought it had :/
[19:04] <ali1234> maybe 1 million
[19:04] <popey> i thought fedora had way more than that
[19:04] <ali1234> i doubt ubuntu has more than about 5 million
[19:04] <popey> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
[19:04] <popey> its way more than 5 million
[19:04] <ali1234> and i doubt fedora has mor than 10% what ubuntu has
[19:04] <popey> probably nearer 10 times that
[19:05] <popey> allegedly
[19:05] <ali1234> and i am talking about people who actually use it as a desktop, not number of installs
[19:05] <diddledan> I wonder what the figures are for day-to-day users of Linux systems on the desktop/laptop actually are
[19:05] <popey> yeah
[19:06] <ali1234> total unique IPs: 1,186,869
[19:06] <ali1234> now divide that by 10 because of dynamic IPs
[19:06] <popey> that seems surprisingly low
[19:06] <ali1234> that's probably in the ballpark
[19:06] <ali1234> not surprising to me
[19:06] <diddledan> divide by ten? that's a rather round fudgefactor
[19:06] <popey> 9.5
[19:07] <ali1234> SIG FIGS!
[19:07] <popey> wut
[19:07] <ali1234> let's say divide by 7 based on 24 hour lease time
[19:07] <popey> my ip hasn't changed for months
[19:07] <ali1234> dyndns pool is usually at least 254 addresses
[19:08] <popey> neither have most people on VM
[19:08] <ali1234> then subtract all the servers...
[19:08] <popey> but i dont run fedora ☻
[19:08] <diddledan> dsl and cable users will likely have pseudo-static IPs because they keep a router constantly connected
[19:09] <davmor2> popey: mine hasn't changed for a while I know this cause dyndns were complaining that I hadn't made contact for a month :)
[19:09] <ali1234> also, let's not count anyone who didn't install it by choice ie corporate users
[19:10] <diddledan> how many corporate desktops do you think will be forced to run fedora?!
[19:10] <ali1234> according to that page, more than the number of people who got counted twice because of dynamic IPs
[19:11] <diddledan> I think "that page" is pulling things out of it's arse
[19:11] <ali1234> so at least half a million imo
[19:11] <ali1234> yeah me too
[19:13] <ali1234> i don't run fedora but i have installed it in a VM more than once to do one thing that won't work anywhere else
[19:13] <diddledan> OT - I wish I could drive, left my phone(s) at work and now I feel disconnected
[19:13] <ali1234> i'm about to do it again now to test this gnome-terminal nonsense
[19:13] <diddledan> lxc is quite fun for running alien systems with little-to-no overhead
[19:14] <ali1234> but it's not managable
[19:14] <diddledan> I've got Gentoo installed in an LXC container. It doesn't know any different than a bare-metal install
[19:14] <ali1234> virtualbox makes 2 files which you can delete at all
[19:15] <BigRedS> surely it's puzzled by having whatever kernel it's running on?
[19:15] <ali1234> LXC uses a bunch of scripts that need root and do god knows what
[19:15] <BigRedS> or, at least, it knows it's not a gentoo one
[19:15] <ali1234> gentoo doesn't care what kernel you run for obvious reasons :)
[19:15] <ali1234> however, fedora probably does
[19:15] <BigRedS> yeah, but I guess it's aware of that. I just meant to hint at lxc not being full-on virt
[19:17] <diddledan> you're right, lxc is more akin to chroot than it is to virtualisation
[19:17] <diddledan> lxc does allow independant network stacks tho, which is useful
[19:19] <ali1234> is the guy who does those BBC logos in here?
[19:19] <popey> no
[19:19] <popey> well, don't think so
[19:19] <ali1234> they are good but globe needs more polygons
[19:19] <popey> Dave Jeffery
[19:22] <ali1234> hmm shall i mess with gnome-terminal or get on with making my game?
[19:22] <ali1234> i think the answer is clear
[19:23] <ali1234> i should stop procrastinating
[19:24] <ali1234> i need to figure out how to do ogre stencil buffer effects so i can make the track self-intersect
[19:27] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/257651
[19:27] <ali1234> this is the one thing i can't do yet
[19:42] <popey> ali1234: do you know of any open source 3d gaming engines (like ogra) which would be candidates for porting to Ubuntu (if they're in the repo already,bonus points)?
[19:43] <ali1234> popey: i don't see what you mean
[19:43] <ali1234> if they are already in the repo why would you port them?
[19:43] <popey> well, no x
[19:44] <ali1234> they all use opengl directly
[19:44] <popey> ah ok
[19:44] <popey> are there any that have a good list of games already developed?
[19:44] <ali1234> but you;d want to look at ogre, crystalspace, saubraten, q3a
[19:44] <popey> i.e. would be candidates
[19:44] <ali1234> no
[19:44] <popey> (for porting and bringing games with them)
[19:44] <ali1234> the only one that has "good" games is ogre, and they are all commercial
[19:44] <popey> commercial is fine
[19:44] <ali1234> btw
[19:45] <ali1234> my game will be mostly static compiled
[19:45] <ali1234> well, it may ship with dynamic libs actually
[19:45] <ali1234> but those libs will be linked against libX11
[19:45] <ali1234> i'm not supporting two different graphics stacks on linux
[19:47] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5665555/
[19:47] <ali1234> this is how torchlight does it
[19:47] <ali1234> (that uses ogre)
[19:47] <ali1234> i just copied what they did
[20:33] <directhex> there aren't really many open source 3d engines in use by real games anyone cares about
[20:33] <mungbean> privilege escalation in rh/centos/SL https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
[20:36] <diddledan> unity supports a linux target now (unity3d.com)
[20:37] <diddledan> it's just a shame the ide doesn't work on linux, too
[20:44] <brunogirin> diddledan: one step at a time I suspect :-)
[20:49] <zleap> AlanBell, just wondered if you could advise if the conference pack is still available please ?
[20:49] <zleap> DanS_, good timing that
[20:49] <DanS_> zleap: I try
[20:49] <zleap> :D
[20:49] <DanS_> Early bird catches the worm
[20:50] <ali1234> directhex: to be fair their aren't that many closed source onces that anyone cares about either
[20:50] <zleap> yup
[21:00] <directhex> ali1234, yeah, it seems nowadays there's a lot of per-publisher engines, and not so much the major "independent" middleware. except unrealengine
[21:01] <ali1234> well, there's unity
[21:01] <ali1234> and source
[21:01] <ali1234> but yeah this is exactly what i mean
[21:02] <brobostigon> reckon it is possible, to convert real life person measurements, and impose them into a opensim avatar ?
[21:02] <ali1234> ogre is the only one that is open source and used in commercial games if you don't count ID engines, afaik
[21:03] <brobostigon> onto*
[21:05] <ali1234> also ogre isn't even a game engine, it only does graphics
[21:05] <mungbean> whos gonna be busy tomorrow updating kernels?
[21:09] <mungbean> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2013/CVE-2013-2094.html
[21:09] <mungbean> wheezy bulnerable too
[21:12] <ali1234> got a tl;dr?
[21:12] <ali1234> how would this be exploited?
[21:15] <mungbean>  https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42827&forum=59
[21:16] <mungbean> has a prog to vompile
[21:17] <ali1234> url is mangled tho
[21:17] <ali1234> but i found it on google
[21:17] <mungbean> f---
[21:17] <ali1234> " * jewgold to 115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g if you insist."
[21:17] <ali1234> HMMMMMMM
[21:18] <mungbean> oh those kids
[21:18] <ali1234> http://blockchain.info/address/115T6jzGrVMgQ2Nt1Wnua7Ch1EuL9WXT2g
[21:18] <ali1234> likely this was destined for an upcoming altcoin
[21:18] <mungbean> whats thart
[21:18] <ali1234> you don't wantto know
[21:19] <mungbean> hack for stealing bc?
[21:19] <diddledan> o_O
[21:19] <ali1234> altcoin is a copy paste of bitcoin source code with a new block chain (ie start from zero)
[21:19] <ali1234> there's about 20 of them
[21:20] <ali1234> nobody has released one with exploits in the source code yet
[21:20] <ali1234> but they will now
[21:21] <mungbean> ok as a trojan?
[21:21] <diddledan> I had a trojan once. it split

[21:21] <mungbean> bahdum chish
[21:22] <mungbean> isnt beauty the eye of the beholder? why is bbc news telling me that a. jolie is one of the worlds most beautiful women?
[21:23] <directhex> otherwise you wouldn't care about what she has to say about cancer
[21:23] <mungbean> i think they mean "considered by some as"
[21:23] <diddledan> have they checked all 7.2Billion people to come to that conclusion?
[21:23] <directhex> ugly mcbutterface's opinions don't matter
[21:23] <directhex> only the beautiful people matter
[21:24] <mungbean> even if 7b people agree, its still subjective
[21:24] <diddledan> I was thinking there might be more beautiful people that are undiscovered in those 7.2b
[21:27] <mungbean> aaron ramsey scored tonight...could be bad
[21:27] <mungbean> every time he scores, a dictator or celebrity dies
[21:28] <diddledan> surely dictators dieing is a good thing, no?
[21:29] <mungbean> xor
[21:30] <mungbean> https://twitter.com/OfficialSamaras/status/315560215716175874/photo/1
[21:31] <diddledan> freaky
[21:35] <KrimZon> are they the only times he scored?
[21:38] <mungbean> yes
[21:38] <mungbean> and 2nite
[21:45] <mungbean> why are ms advertising their os with multi platform angry birds?
[21:54] <AlanBell> hmm, because they are scared of Ubuntu phone - the only bird-free platform?
[21:54] <directhex> heh
[21:55] <directhex> you know the crazy smarphone sales figures these days?
[21:55] <directhex> angry birds is a day-1 install for 50% of them
[21:55] <directhex> a platform with no angry birds is a write-off
[21:57] <AlanBell> I removed it from my phone (and all other games)
[21:57] <mungbean> my son likes it but hes 3
[21:58] <mungbean> he also likes ninja warrior instead of postman pat
[21:58] <AlanBell> I would actually be fine with Ubuntu phone if it makes calls, does ssh and web and gps for maps and bluetooth for audio
[21:58] <AlanBell> and has no apps
[21:59] <directhex> AlanBell, you might be. and so might six, maybe 7 other consumers
[21:59] <directhex> but that won't pay the bills
[21:59] <mungbean> yep
[22:00] <AlanBell> indeed, and I suspect that it won't meet my extensive list of requirements there
[22:01] <mungbean> i imagine ubuntu phone as a niche like nokia 900
[22:02] <AlanBell> niche is good
[22:02] <AlanBell> however I have no idea what niche they are targetting
[22:02] <mungbean> modders?
[22:03] <mungbean> oeople who mught equa;;y install cm?
[22:03] <ali1234> no
[22:03] <ali1234> they are targeting the same niche they are targeting with desktop
[22:03] <ali1234> the self-defining niche of "people who like ubuntu"
[22:05] <AlanBell> nah, that is their userbase, not their target
[22:05] <ali1234> well, any time anyone says they don't like ubuntu the answer is "it's not meant for you"
[22:05] <AlanBell> target is more along the lines of "people who really want an Apple product instead"
[22:05] <ali1234> therefore ubuntu must be designed for people who like ubuntu
[22:09] <AlanBell> I would love it to be more coding/tinkering friendly
[22:09] <AlanBell> as a strategic direction, so including an IDE in the base image and focus on one toolkit like QML
[22:10] <ali1234> meh
[22:10] <ali1234> lets have a desktop that actually renders windows instead of black rectangles first
[22:11] <ali1234> i would probably use unity if it could manage that
[22:11] <ali1234> the newest version in raring is much worse than all previous ones though
[22:11] <mungbean> every linux user i show elementary to is amazed by the speed
[22:11] <ali1234> it has all previous bugs from the past 18 months, plus a whole load of new ones
[22:11] <AlanBell> works for me at the moment, I just want a more deterministic alt-tab switcher
[22:12] <mungbean> turns out people like fast
[22:12] <AlanBell> what is elementary?
[22:12] <ali1234> yeah do you know why elementary is fast?
[22:12] <ali1234> it's because it doesn't use compiz
[22:12] <mungbean> AlanBell: a distro based off ubuntu that uses a different wm
[22:13] <ali1234> can someone try to confirm this please? it's really irritating: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1174054
[22:13] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1174054 in unity (Ubuntu) ""Always on top" breaks spread/expose" [Undecided,New]
[22:13] <mungbean> and is v pretty and fast and nicely made
[22:13] <ali1234> will take you about 10 seconds
[22:13] <ali1234> AlanBell: it's just mutter and docky and a nice theme
[22:14] <mungbean> almost , but much more
[22:14] <ali1234> that doesn't really do the theme justice - it is very nice
[22:14] <ali1234> but it is too mac like for me
[22:15] <mungbean> things tend to work as i would intuitively expect without someone telling me
[22:15] <mungbean> i converted old scool fwvm user
[22:15] <ali1234> i have been using computers so long that i now intuitively expect every piece of software to not work at all
[22:15] <ali1234> i am constantly unsurprised
[22:16] <AlanBell> the system that worked the best was riscos on the archimedes where drag and drop from any application to any application just worked
[22:17] <AlanBell> and it was just very consistent
[22:17] <ali1234> that only works if the applications support it though
[22:17] <ali1234> it's not magic
[22:18] <ali1234> also amiga workbench was miles better than risc os. please
[22:18] <AlanBell> I did love my Amiga
[22:18] <ali1234> "every" app had an arexx port. which was like dbus ecxcept 20+ years ago
[22:18] <ali1234> and better
[22:18] <ali1234> and easier to use
[22:24] <ali1234> AlanBell: thanks for testing that bug. i wonder how i could get it added to the unity tests?
[22:25] <AlanBell> talk to balloons
[22:26] <AlanBell> in #ubuntu-quality
[22:37] <ali1234> so how do i format a usb flash drive the ubuntu way?
[22:43] <dwatkins> ali1234: with dd?
[22:43] <ali1234> that's not the ubuntu way
[22:43] <ali1234> also it won't format it it will just wipe it
[22:43] <dwatkins> oh, gparted i guess, then
[22:44] <ali1234> oh. "disks"
[22:44] <ali1234> cool
[22:44] <ali1234> that was easy
[22:44] <ali1234> "Error synchronizing after initial wipe: Timed out waiting for object (udisks-error-quark, 0)"
[22:44] <ali1234> :/
[22:44] <ali1234> i have a quark
[22:45] <dwatkins> is it strange or charmed?
[22:45] <ali1234> i think it's just broken
[22:45] <dwatkins> oh dear
[22:45] <dwatkins> ali1234: did that 'people with blue faces' thing get fixed in the end, by the way?
[22:46] <ali1234> yes, but not by adobe
[22:46] <dwatkins> someone told me it was an NVidia bug, I don't know the 'truth' though.
[22:46] <ali1234> libvdpau put in a patch that detects libflashplayer and swaps the channels
[22:46] <dwatkins> ah ok, fair enough
[22:46] <ali1234> well, there is only one other video card that supports vdpau and it is super rare
[22:47] <ali1234> i never found out if anyone could reproduce with it
[22:47] <dwatkins> I did everything I could to get it escalated, sadly the response was no.
[22:47] <ali1234> it's like a via chrome card or something
[22:47] <ali1234> i hink google have fixed it in pepper flash
[22:48] <ali1234> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2012-September/002066.html
[22:48] <dwatkins> The Linux community has an advantage over large corporations in these kinds of situations.
[22:48] <ali1234> yes
[22:48] <ali1234> we can change the source to work around their bugs
[22:48] <dwatkins> thanks, I'll pass that on and try not to do so in a manner that says "because you refused to, the community fixed it"
[22:49] <ali1234> i'm not sure the current status
[22:49] <ali1234> that post is quite old
[22:49] <dwatkins> I have an AMD card in my desktop, so can't test it.
[22:49] <ali1234> let me check if it is still in there......
[22:50] <ali1234> yep, still there
[22:50] <ali1234> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~aplattner/libvdpau/commit/?id=ca9e637c61e80145f0625a590c91429db67d0a40
[22:50] <dwatkins> cool
[22:51] <ali1234> could still be an nvidia bug, i don't know
[22:51] <ali1234> i'm not convinced though
[22:51] <dwatkins> fair enough, I wouldn't have a clue, but at least it's fixed/worked-around now.
[22:52] <dwatkins> Unfortunately Linux desktops are just too small a market for me to get much traction with the "users want this to be fixed" line.
[22:53] <dwatkins> I was pleasantly surprised that Steam started porting to Linux, hopefully that will snowball things to get more competition in the market in general.
[22:53] <ali1234> flash is dead anyway
[22:53] <ali1234> i can't really blame them for not fixing it
[22:53] <dwatkins> yeah, everyone (including Adobe) is moving over to HTML5 now, I guess.
[22:54] <dwatkins> I'm a little hesitant about the whole DRM issue, but that's another story.