[13:22] <delftgate> Hi there, Is this live as in happening, right now ?
[13:25] <delftgate> popey: QUESTION: Is this on line video - wise right now ?
[13:27] <delftgate> Oh, it says that it is on at 3pm UTC .. OK
[13:59] <balloons> feel free to join in everyone :-)
[13:59] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
[14:01] <rickspencer3> o/
[14:02] <philipballew> balloons, I can join
[14:02] <balloons> go for it
[14:02] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
[14:02] <balloons> :-)
[14:02] <balloons> ohh.. this one starts now, not 5 after.. so let's go :-)
[14:03] <balloons> should be live in a moment
[14:04] <rickspencer3> hi balloons we can see you
[14:05] <rickspencer3> well, speaking for myself
[14:05] <balloons> lol
[14:05] <Letozaf_> my internet connection is too slow just like yesterday, better stay on IRC
[14:07] <gema> balloons: are you feeling alone?
[14:08] <philipballew> i might hop  on in a few. Google talk plugin was hating me
[14:08] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Give me updates in IRC plz:P
[14:11] <gema> balloons: share the hangout link
[14:11] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
[14:11] <balloons> anyone is welcome to join
[14:13] <Letozaf_> I can organize to hold  another hangout if you think so
[14:13] <Letozaf_> maybe on laptop testing
[14:13] <Letozaf_> and on ISO testing
[14:14] <balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21714/community-s-quality-coverage/
[14:15] <balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21817/appdev-s-coreapps-plans/
[14:15] <smartboyhw_> Hey Letozaf_
[14:15] <Letozaf_> Hey smartboyhw_:
[14:17] <Letozaf_> if they port ubuntu phone to Samsung Galaxy SIII I would be glad to test it on ny phone
[14:17] <Letozaf_> do you think they will port soon ?
[14:18] <Letozaf_> autopilot ? I will be very glad to help :D
[14:19] <thomi> Letozaf_: there's plenty to do - if you want to contribute, come talk to me or veebers
[14:19] <Letozaf_> thomi: sure just let me know when
[14:19] <thomi> Letozaf_: what timezone are you in?
[14:19] <smartboyhw_> Heck, autopilot is too difficult:P
[14:20] <thomi> smartboyhw_: to use, or to hack on?
[14:20] <smartboyhw_> thomi: hack on
[14:21] <thomi> smartboyhw_: ahhh, ,well, that's where you should ping the autopilot devs, we can point you in the right direction
[14:21] <Letozaf_> I am on CET Rome timezone
[14:21] <thomi> Letozaf_: haha, I'm in +1200, so maybe drop me an email instead :)
[14:22] <Letozaf_> thomi: :D yeah think it's better
[14:23] <fr33r1d3> Is Accomplishment working on 13.04? I couldn't install it.
[14:23] <balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21728/qa-dashboard-kpi/
[14:23] <balloons> http://91.189.93.58/
[14:25] <balloons> fr33r1d3, pm philballew
[14:27] <smartboyhw_> balloons: We can attract more youth and teenagers:
[14:27] <smartboyhw_> P
[14:28] <gema> smartboyhw_: want to join the hangout?
[14:28] <smartboyhw_> gema: Phone…
[14:28] <gema> smartboyhw_: ack
[14:29] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom
[14:30] <smartboyhw_> balloons: What classroom sessions should we do?
[14:30] <Letozaf_> what about a classroom session on autopilot testing have we had any ?
[14:30] <smartboyhw_> Letozaf_: Nice. And autopkgtest and Testdrive hacking
[14:30] <Letozaf_> I mean on writing autopilto automated tests
[14:30] <Letozaf_> smartboyhw_: yeah!
[14:31] <thomi> one issue with an autopilot session is it's always at a terrible time for the two main autopilot devs :)
[14:31] <gema> thomi: maybe you guys can do a video
[14:31] <gema> thomi: like a hangout and then take video questions on youtube?
[14:31] <Letozaf_> yeah a video looks like the only solution
[14:31] <thomi> indeed - I've been meaning to for a loooong time
[14:31] <thomi> I'm speaking at conferences about it :)
[14:32] <gema> thomi: that way it all stays recorded for everyone to see
[14:32] <Letozaf_> gema +1
[14:32] <gema> thomi: and you can play the video at all the conferences from then onwards :P
[14:32] <thomi> heh
[14:34] <Letozaf_> balloons: maybe record with a camera
[14:34] <thomi> balloons: yeah, I don't think we did
[14:34] <thomi> sounds good to me :)
[14:35] <thomi> \o/
[14:35] <thomi> +1200 FTW
[14:35] <Letozaf_> I find videos better
[14:35] <Letozaf_> IRC is a bit harder to read
[14:38] <fr33r1d3> The interviews were great.
[14:38] <smartboyhw_> fr33r1d3: :)
[14:38] <Letozaf_> yes the interviews gives the change to get to know testers better and see who's behind the nick
[14:39] <fr33r1d3> More info on how different persons work, please..
[14:39] <smartboyhw_> balloons: Try to fill in the list before next week:P
[14:39] <smartboyhw_> gema: PM?
[14:39] <gema> smartboyhw_: sure, what do you mean?
[14:40] <smartboyhw_> gema: Private message;P
[14:40] <gema> smartboyhw_: just query and shoot whatever you want x)
[14:40] <fr33r1d3> How they do it. It would be nice for us trying to get into the game.
[14:41] <balloons> fr33r1d3, ok, does a video or classroom session meet that need?
[14:42] <fr33r1d3> both please
[14:42] <balloons> ok, so our plans include doing those.. I want to make sure that is going to meet what your asking about
[14:42] <fr33r1d3> nice.
[14:59] <balloons> for the next session, if anyone wishes to join, speak up :-)
[15:00]  * pitti invites thomi
[15:00] <smartboyhw_> I'm off:P (to UbuntuKylin)
[15:00] <pitti> yeah, this is pretty much a "what do you guys need" session
[15:00] <smartboyhw_> #ubuntu-uds-client-2
[15:00] <smartboyhw_> Meh
[15:05] <balloons> anyone wishing to join, just speak up
[15:05] <gema> pitti: I don't see video
[15:05] <balloons> we should be live
[15:05] <gema> or balloons
[15:05] <gema> oh, there it is
[15:05] <alesage> same, no videoz
[15:05] <gema> alesage: reload
[15:06] <balloons> :-(
[15:06] <fisch246> there's a delay, so just be patient
[15:06] <alesage> ok got it :)
[15:06] <fisch246> yup just went live
[15:06] <fisch246> so if still no video, just refresh
[15:06] <fisch246> i wait until the "please stand by" goes away. it's when they go live.
[15:10] <sergiusens> pitti: not needed for the phone world (ap-gtk)
[15:12] <pitti> yeah, hence my hesitation
[15:13] <balloons> welcome Letozaf_ :-) We're talking about autopilot gtk desktop tests
[15:13] <balloons> so please speak up
[15:13] <Letozaf_> I cannot here well I have a bit of problems with my internet
[15:14] <balloons> :-(
[15:14] <Letozaf_> anyway if you guys need some help on autopilot I will be happy to help
[15:14] <mmrazik> Letozaf_:  sounds like autopilot-gtk is not used much and we shift our focux towards to qt world
[15:14] <gema> pitti: I'd like to run those tests on our daily smoke testing for desktop
[15:14] <mmrazik> we would need somebody to look/maintain autopilot-gtk
[15:14] <gema> whilst it not converged
[15:14] <balloons> gema good point.. how long till convergence?
[15:15] <balloons> and even after, will the gtk apps still be around?
[15:15] <gema> balloons: I think 14.04, but I am not sure
[15:15] <gema> balloons: no idea
[15:15] <mmrazik> gema: which tests? Those that baloons mentioned?
[15:15] <balloons> I mean post 14.04 we'll still have a gtk browser n'est paS/
[15:15] <Letozaf_> mmrazik: I would like to look/maintain autopilot-gtk
[15:15] <mmrazik> thomi, alesage: ^^^
[15:15] <Letozaf_> if you guys want me to, obviously
[15:15] <mmrazik> sure Letozaf_ :)
[15:15] <thomi> Letozaf_: how's your Gtk skills? perhaps you and pitti can work on this together
[15:15] <mmrazik> I think there are couple of bugreports, etc
[15:16] <Letozaf_> unfortunately I do not know much about gtk but I am willing to learn
[15:16] <Letozaf_> if this is not a problem for you guys
[15:17] <thomi> Letozaf_: you should be aware that the autopilot-gtk code is somewhat complex, but I'm sure we can assemble a team of pitti, Letozaf_, alesage, and myself
[15:17] <Letozaf_> I mean I am happy to learn new things and learn new stuff so if you think I can help I am here
[15:17] <Letozaf_> thomi: I can try
[15:17] <Letozaf_> thomi: then we will see if I am able to
[15:18] <alesage> Letozaf_, we'll all be learning from pitti, most likely :)
[15:18] <gema> Letozaf_: keep in touch with pitti and thomi during this work they are talking about
[15:18] <gema> and see if you feel like maintaining after it is up and running
[15:18] <Letozaf_> alesage: well it's an honour to learn from pitti
[15:18] <alesage> Letozaf_, indeed :)
[15:19] <Letozaf_> gema: sure
[15:20] <alesage> there are also some internal clients thomi; e.g. webapps and thinclient
[15:20] <alesage> we should coordinate with them to see if they're migrating away?
[15:21] <balloons> ahh.. interesting.. the age old legacy questions :-)
[15:21] <Letozaf_> :( sound is coming and going
[15:21] <mmrazik> alesage: thinclient still needs that
[15:21] <mmrazik> there are some long-term plans to migrate to qt
[15:21] <mmrazik> but its more like 14.04
[15:21] <fisch246> only for martin for me, though i think he's having connection issues
[15:21] <mmrazik> than 13.10
[15:22] <sergiusens> pitti: we are getting lag from you
[15:22] <sergiusens> well at least I am
[15:22]  * mmrazik too
[15:22] <Letozaf_> so am i
[15:22] <fr33r1d3> me too
[15:22] <balloons> same pitti .. perhaps go down to audio only
[15:22] <mmrazik> lag + brak ups
[15:22] <Letozaf_> I kind of lost the last part, I will have to watch the video afterwards
[15:22] <sergiusens> yeah s/lag/jitter/
[15:23] <mmrazik> thomi: tvoss was going to look into something for mir
[15:23] <mmrazik> wrt multimonitor testing
[15:24] <mmrazik> ack. no multimonitor stuff for unity <8
[15:24] <pitti> yeah, but I don't think the lag gets alot better without video, already tried that
[15:24] <pitti> (hangouts have never really worked well for me, sorry
[15:24] <balloons> pitti, :-( the little bandwith slider at the top right works well for me to slide down
[15:24] <pitti> yeah, already did that
[15:25] <mmrazik> yeah... unity 8 is probably also too new for this ATM
[15:26] <alesage> then write more tests larsu and desrt ;)
[15:27] <fisch246> it's kind of insane that people are already running unity 8, even though it's so unfinished. bit off topic sorry.
[15:30] <sergiusens> fisch246: well we run it on the phones and tablet, so you'll have to be specific ;-)
[15:30] <fisch246> sergiusens: well they ran it on a mac, but it was basically the phablet os on a computer.
[15:31] <sergiusens> fisch246: that was a mir demo, nothing more
[15:32] <alesage> you could even do it in python :)
[15:33] <fisch246> sergiusens: yea i know, still it's kinda crazy how people can use your stuff on just about anything. you guys have really started something. glad to be apart of it.
[15:33] <balloons> poor pitti.. lag is no fun :-(
[15:34] <Letozaf_> looks like Europe has poor internet connections :D
[15:34] <balloons> indeed.. It's common for it not to work so well in Europe it seems
[15:40] <sergiusens> balloons: depends on ISP, at least in Argentina... I had to switch to an ISP that had a good relationship with Google
[16:03]  * sergiusens wonders why all the _Touch_ sessions are at the same time
[16:05] <dholbach> who else wants to be part of the conversation?
[16:06] <dholbach> sorry, the hangout is causing some problems here
[16:06] <dholbach> it says "enabling broadcast 99%"
[16:06] <dholbach> here we go
[16:08] <YoBoY> yes
[16:08] <dholbach> who else wants to be part of the conversation? and join the hangout?
[16:08] <YoBoY> but the stream is bad :]
[16:08] <dholbach> what's wrong?
[16:09] <YoBoY> stoping lot of time, but perhaps it's my connexion
[16:15] <YoBoY> if I'm not wrong, the DVD cover/artwork is on the advocacy kit, but this artwork will not be produced for the next ISO,
[16:15] <YoBoY> how we plan to fix that ?
[16:15] <dholbach> YoBoY, this is "Development Onramp for Ubuntu Touch and Unity Next ( Community )"
[16:15] <YoBoY> oups wrong chan sorry
[16:16] <dholbach> :)
[16:16] <YoBoY> (some days…à
[16:18] <bregma> what is the umbrella project?
[16:20] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview
[16:26] <dholbach> tvoss, what happened? :)
[16:27] <tvoss> dholbach, sorry, massive conflicts between sessions in these slots :)
[16:27] <dholbach> nevermind
[16:28] <dholbach> "no worries" I mean :)
[16:29] <ptl> hakuna matata then
[16:32] <bregma> is the flow of merge proposal to change appearing in the image (or archive) documented anywhere?  With diagrams?
[16:33] <delfgate> dholbach: When does this meeting/session begin .. Plz.
[16:33] <dholbach> delfgate, which one?" Development Onramp for Ubuntu Touch and Unity Next ( Community )"?
[16:34] <delfgate> "Revamping ubuntu.com/community" ...
[16:34] <dholbach> it's on right now: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21707/community-1305-touch-and-unity-dev-onramp/
[16:34] <dholbach> delfgate, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/2013-05-15/
[16:35] <delfgate> it says 18:05 UTC is that correct ?
[16:35] <bregma> how will  Unity 8 in the desktop affect Touch development onramp strategies?
[16:36] <dholbach> delfgate, "date -u" gives you the UTC time
[16:37] <delfgate> so basically it starts in half an hour ?
[16:37] <dholbach> no, Mi 15. Mai 16:37 UTC 2013 is the current utc time
[16:38] <delfgate> oh ok
[16:39] <alecu> I've just seen dholbach comment on the lag, so I count 4 minutes of lag
[16:40] <dholbach> wow
[16:40] <dholbach> not bad
[16:41] <delfgate> QUESTION .. There is a person on the https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2013-May/date.html called elfy .. who is that person here Plz . ??
[16:42] <elfy> that'd be me :)
[16:42] <dholbach> anyone else who wants to get on the hangout?
[16:42] <dholbach> any more questions?
[16:43] <elfy> delfgate: why?
[16:43] <delfgate> elfy: And you are to-do with membership, right ?
[16:43] <elfy> only on the forums
[16:43] <delfgate> Do you have a launchpad profile ?
[16:43] <ptl> wild thought here: what if you can use some people from outside of canonical to lead some UDS sessions? Is it feasible?
[16:43] <elfy> yea - same name https://launchpad.net/~elfy
[16:44] <delfgate> k
[16:44] <elfy> not sure why still though :)
[16:45] <ptl> like e.g some prolific external contributor, or a game developer
[16:45] <ptl> oh
[16:45] <alecu> bye!
[16:45] <ptl> it's over?
[16:45] <delfgate> Ahh .. I've just relized it's Elizabeth from G+ .. I use Xubuntu .. but I'll leave that for another channel ...
[16:45] <alecu> ptl: it seems so.
[16:46] <alecu> ptl: I don't think there should be any impediment for somebody outside of canonical to lead a UDS session; they should just contact the leaders of each UDS track to get a session added.
[16:47] <alecu> ptl: at least, that's how it worked at non-virtual UDSs.
[16:47] <alecu> ptl: maybe dholbach has more info ^
[16:48] <alecu> ptl: do you have any session in mind?
[16:51] <dholbach> sure, anyone can lead a session - it's just a few folks (the track leads) who can update summit
[16:51] <dholbach> and the ordinary g+ account can just deal with 10 people in the session, while the one used for canonical.com accounts can do 15
[16:51] <dholbach> but that's not a real problem if you ask me
[17:02] <fisch246> i'm watching the keynote of google i/o right now lol
[17:02] <philballew> fisch246, any good?
[17:02] <fisch246> it's alright
[17:02] <fisch246> s4 looks good, running nexus os
[17:03] <philballew> nice!
[17:03] <philballew> alright, so add my to the hangout for the com website talk if needed
[17:05] <fisch246> ok may i provide some feedback to this vUDS?
[17:05] <bkerensa> I'm in
[17:06] <fisch246> It's really great. I don't work at canonical, nor am I really that big part of Ubuntu. Yet I can provide feedback because I simply care about it so much. However the only thing I'd say it's missing, is a good keynote. Something to tell people where we're headed.
[17:07] <philballew> Looking forward to fisch246 's good keynote next UDS.
[17:08] <fisch246> I'm down
[17:08] <fisch246> Just give me the notes
[17:09] <fisch246> I'm just saying like... 10-15 minutes about the next steps. Maybe just play a video from Mark.
[17:09] <philballew> fisch246, well at physical uds's mark speaks
[17:10] <fisch246> Yea I know, and I miss that.
[17:12] <philballew> fisch246, life...
[17:13] <fisch246> I do see that if you did that this UDS, it'd be like CES 2013. "Yea so, we announced everything already. We're doing the same stuff, nothing new... Alright cya everyone, enjoy the show!"
[17:22] <fisch246> so i trashed my backup nexus 7
[17:23] <fisch246> now there's only 1 left
[17:27] <fisch246> kiwi went down
[17:27] <fisch246> things always seem to go down when you need them lol
[17:31] <fisch246> oh dear... this coffee is really hitting me
[17:54] <elfy> hi :)
[17:54] <peterm-ubuntu> hello!
[17:56] <pleia2> o/
[17:56] <elfy> hi pleia2
[17:56] <kotux> hello pleia2
[17:58] <epikvisi0n> good morning philballew!
[17:59] <philballew> epikvisi0n, hello!
[18:02] <dholbach> who wants to be part of the conversation and join into the hangout?
[18:02] <pleia2> me please
[18:02] <dholbach> sure
[18:03] <Guest12739> me please
[18:03] <bkerensa> me
[18:04] <philballew> well hello
[18:05] <elfy> I'll justhave to listen again :)
[18:05] <dholbach> let me know if you want to get on
[18:05] <elfy> it's not that I don't want to dholbach - I can't :)
[18:06] <dholbach> http://91.189.93.108/
[18:06] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityWebsite
[18:06] <UbuPhillup> hi
[18:06] <epikvisi0n> hi UbuPhillup
[18:06] <philballew> id like to join the hangout if thats tight
[18:07] <dholbach> sure
[18:11] <elfy> keep losign the video
[18:11] <fisch246> video is fine here
[18:12] <dholbach> please help updating the pad: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21706/community-1305-community-website-revamp/
[18:12] <epikvisi0n> I don't have the video at all. :(
[18:12] <fisch246> though i have like... super internet now... so maybe i'm unique
[18:12] <epikvisi0n> nvm I have it.
[18:12] <dholbach> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=po0D6BB43Us
[18:17] <asomething> can we get this into version control or are people wed to the pads?
[18:18] <gerhartcuighk> jono: Your not activating your Lower 3rd .. ??
[18:18] <dholbach> asomething, no, it'd be a wordpress site with a team of people who can edit
[18:18] <jono> gerhartcuighk, oops, setting up now
[18:19] <asomething> dholbach, I'm wondering about how to best get feed back on potential edits
[18:20] <antdillon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10004366/Ubuntu/community.html
[18:21] <dholbach> asomething, ah ok - I think that could be just a "hey, can somebody have a look at my set of changes"? what do you think?
[18:22] <asomething> I suppose, but I like merge proposals and diffs =)
[18:23] <dholbach> yeah, me too :)
[18:23] <elfy> I give up - it's all dropping out for me
[18:24] <epikvisi0n> What is the goal for the Documentation team for Saucy?
[18:25] <dholbach> epikvisi0n, that's in community-2
[18:25]  * dholbach hugs pleia2
[18:26] <UbuPhillup> dholbach: in community-2 is »Growing a strong translation community«
[18:26] <dholbach> uhm
[18:26] <dholbach> ah sorry
[18:26] <dholbach> epikvisi0n, that's in an hour
[18:26] <dholbach> next session
[18:26] <epikvisi0n> mhm, ok
[18:27] <fisch246> odd... i am so behind live right now, yet the video keeps freezing.
[18:28] <fisch246> i even opted to use the youtube site, instead of the summit one.
[18:28] <gerhardcuighf> me too .. just refresh and use the Kiwi in a second tab-page
[18:29] <fisch246> i'm using irc in pidgin
[18:29] <gerhardcuighf> just refresh the webPage then.
[18:29] <fisch246> oh it's probably google i/o that's causing the problems. all the bandwidth being stolen by it.
[18:31] <gerhardcuighf> QUESTION: Will Tweets and reddit buttons be incorporated into the Community page on ubuntu.com ?
[18:32] <fisch246> ha well there we go. the keynote ended and it's working now. guess i was right.
[18:32] <elfy> pleia2 bkerensa jono - if you want extra help with content review - I'm happy to look
[18:33] <pleia2> perhaps not quite yet, but I learned about this contribution tour yesterday: http://www.ubuntu-it.org/comunita/orientamento
[18:34] <pleia2> elfy: thanks, added a work item for you too ;)
[18:34] <fisch246> since we're talking about /community, don't forget about locales.
[18:37] <elfy> pleia2: k
[18:50] <bkerensa> dholbach: you are going to set this one up for me too right?
[18:50] <dholbach> docs? yes
[18:51] <bkerensa> yep
[18:51] <bkerensa> godbyk: do u have G+?
[18:51] <bkerensa> godbyk: would love for you to be in the hangout
[18:52] <godbyk> bkerensa: I do.
[18:55]  * bkerensa whacks udsbotu 
[19:01] <bkerensa> Anyone essential for the hangout for the doc session?
[19:02] <pleia2>  
[19:02] <pleia2> can you add me?
[19:06] <srinath> hi guys
[19:06] <kotux> hey srinath
[19:07] <srinath> hi kotux
[19:07] <srinath> i'm new here
[19:07] <srinath> what about you??
[19:08] <dholbach> anyone who wants to join the hangout?
[19:09] <kotux> What's the team's goal for Saucy?
[19:10] <pleia2> kotux: just added that as an agenda item
[19:10]  * kotux is epikvisi0n
[19:10] <kotux> srinath, I've been around for a while.
[19:11] <srinath> good to know
[19:11] <srinath> now i know whom to pester
[19:11] <srinath> :)
[19:12] <kotux> but I want to be part of the doc team.  how about you?
[19:12] <srinath> me too
[19:12] <srinath> anyway i can help
[19:12] <dholbach> srinath, what would you like to help with? the "getting started" docs?
[19:13] <kotux> dholbach, where can interested people get started?
[19:13] <srinath> anything is fine by me
[19:14] <ballock> I have some Ubuntu enterprise desktop docs I wanted to create anyway
[19:14] <kotux> pleia2, yeah!
[19:15] <GunnarHj> As I said a few weeks ago on the list, I'd be happy to work with a minimal "getting started tutorial" to make it easier for new contributors.
[19:16] <ballock> You can treat me as a volunteer for a getting started guide, would need that anyway.
[19:17] <srinath> me too
[19:19] <kotux> let me mention that askubuntu and ubuntuforums has far more information than the documentation.  There are many nuggets of knowledge that could be in the official one.
[19:19] <srinath> what is the state of documentation for developers??
[19:20] <dholbach> srinath, you mean for writing apps for Ubuntu or for hacking on Ubuntu itself?
[19:20] <srinath> writing apps
[19:20] <godbyk> srinath: The developer documentation is handled by a different team.
[19:20] <srinath> ok
[19:20] <dholbach> srinath, that lives in a separate place - it's http://developer.ubuntu.com/
[19:20] <srinath> oh..
[19:21] <srinath> right the developing team maintains it
[19:21] <srinath> my bad
[19:21] <dholbach> no worries :)
[19:21] <srinath> one simple question what is it that we are supposed to have in documentation??
[19:22] <srinath> i mean we can have a zillion things
[19:22] <kotux> documentation should be treated like software.
[19:22] <srinath> but what are the most sensible things to add??
[19:23] <GunnarHj> There seems to be a lack of input from developers, package maintainers etc., i.e. the doc team seems to be on their own. Is that an issue that should be dealt with?
[19:23] <dsmythies> Help.ubuntu.com does not update by utself. I have bene doing it.
[19:24] <srinath> dsmythies wow
[19:24] <kotux> dsmythies, that's a lot of work for one guy.
[19:24] <srinath> ya there should be someone kind of coordination between teams regarding the documentation being generated
[19:24] <godbyk> dsmythies: Okay, that's good to know.  How do you know when to update help.ubuntu.com?
[19:24] <dsmythies> No. it is not. It's almost automatic from the master files.
[19:25] <dsmythies> I was just rerring to an earlier comment that help.ubuntu.com wasn't updated.
[19:25] <dholbach> any more questions, concerns or agenda items from irc?
[19:25] <dholbach> or missing work items?
[19:25] <pmatulis_> hey dsmythies o/
[19:26] <YoBoY> perhaps we can plan to put some eyecandy on the frontpage of the documentation, to highlight the last docs, and put the community doc with a clear text of what it is (something with boxes, big buttons, or something else…)
[19:26] <dholbach> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21693/community-1305-doc-planning/ if you haven't reviewed it yet
[19:27] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks#Tagged_Pages
[19:27] <pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[19:27] <kotux> we can try breaking categorization into chunks.
[19:28]  * YoBoY have connexion problem and lost the feed :]
[19:28] <ahoneybun> hello?
[19:28] <pmatulis_> bkerensa: i've always been in favour of promoting community docs to the official docs.  there is a lot of overlap.  copy & paste in both directions
[19:28] <kotux> hey ahoneybun
[19:28] <ahoneybun> is this the uds for docs?
[19:28] <kotux> yes
[19:29] <ahoneybun> cool
[19:29] <ahoneybun> will there be any talk about the kubuntu docs or just ubuntu docs?
[19:31] <YoBoY> official documentation dont cover everything
[19:31] <dsmythies> Often the community documentation is up to date whereas the offical is not.
[19:31] <kotux> YoBoY, agreed. the official one should be the ultimate reference.
[19:32] <ahoneybun> currently I am working on getting the kubuntu-docs moved to a wiki
[19:32] <ahoneybun> with valorie
[19:32] <YoBoY> On the french documentation, we have one rule "don't rewrite what exists somewhere else", and we follow this simple rule pointing the good docs everywhere
[19:32] <pmatulis_> ideally both community and official docs would be in the same place.  the community stuff would consist of added commentary to the official stuff, and potentially merge it to the official docs later
[19:33] <kotux> takes clear process.
[19:33] <pmatulis_> having them in different places is fundamentally broken
[19:34] <srinath> else we can just have
[19:34] <srinath> links in the official docs to community docs
[19:34] <ahoneybun> I pulled the branch from kubuntu-docs on lp and copying it but also editing it on the spot, and updating the images
[19:34] <ahoneybun> you are echoing btw
[19:36] <srinath> i may be off topic
[19:36] <srinath> but are there any docs  for new contributors
[19:36] <srinath> to ubuntu??
[19:36] <kotux> what tools are essential for the doc contributors?
[19:36] <ahoneybun> kotux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[19:37] <godbyk> To whomever wrote 'standardize tools', what did you have in mind?
[19:37] <YoBoY> thanks
[19:37]  * pleia2 needs more comfortable headphones
[19:38] <godbyk> srinath: What do you mean by 'contributors'?  Contributors to the documentation or developers or something else?
[19:38] <ahoneybun> what does cadence mean
[19:38] <ahoneybun> godbyk: this is about docs
[19:38] <pleia2> ahoneybun: regular flow
[19:38] <srinath> i mean contributors to developers
[19:38] <pleia2> srinath: that documentation tends to be maintained by each team
[19:39] <ahoneybun> idk what needs to be done there
[19:39] <pmatulis_> deleting community docs is ok but you run the risk of making some people angry as they may intend to keep updating the community page but now will probably stop due to the large barrier to official docs
[19:39] <godbyk> srinath: See http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved/developers
[19:39] <godbyk> pmatulis_: Hopefully we can reduce the barrier to entry for the official docs.
[19:39] <pleia2> srinath: http://www.ubuntu.com/community has links to a few resources, and we're currently working on a new, improved page for that (had a session about it last hour)
[19:40] <srinath> oh...
[19:40] <kotux> what tools should contributors use to edit and merge docs?
[19:40] <srinath> did not know that
[19:40] <srinath> my bad
[19:40] <kotux> godbyk^
[19:40] <godbyk> kotux: We'll be updating the documentation on that soon. But at the moment, you only need a text editor and bzr.
[19:40] <kotux> right, that's what I thought.
[19:40] <kotux> most importantly, the team needs an agenda for this release cycle.
[19:41] <kotux> and make sure that the work doesn't end up being a one-man show.
[19:41] <pleia2> kotux: there are several folks with work items now (take a look at the etherpad)
[19:41] <pleia2> we'll have regular meetings to check in on things
[19:43] <pmatulis_> php documentation is an example of how the 2 can be merged.  but yeah, bit undertaking.  http://www.php.net/manual
[19:43] <pmatulis_> *big
[19:43] <ballock> I can't find the mailing list, it doesn't seem to be on launchpad
[19:44] <godbyk> ballock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[19:44] <kotux> pleia2, at the moment, where can prospective contributors start? The session today suggested we begin review of the raring docs
[19:44] <pleia2> pmatulis_: that's similar to the sumo software, do you know if what php.net uses is open source?
[19:44] <godbyk> kotux: A great place to start would to be to review the current documentation and suggest improvements.
[19:44] <pmatulis_> pleia2: no, i don't know
[19:44] <godbyk> kotux: If you can offer specific textual changes to be made, that'd be best.
[19:45] <knome> godbyk, it would be great if that was documented
[19:45] <ahoneybun> kotux: right now the kubuntu-docs is like a 2 man show
[19:45] <godbyk> kotux: You can do this by emailing the list or submitting merge proposals.
[19:45] <ballock> godbyk: thanks
[19:45] <kotux> godbyk, can you define merge proposals?
[19:46] <pleia2> kotux: if you don't know about MPs, you might just want to review and send changes to the mailing list, defining and explaining merge proposals is part of what we (bkerensa will be documenting)
[19:46] <godbyk> kotux: To create a merge proposal, you'd use bzr to check out the current docs code. Modify your copy.  Then, via Launchpad, you can create a merge proposal that sends notification of your modifications to the docs team so we can merge them in to the main bzr branch.
[19:47] <godbyk> kotux: As pleia2 mentioned, we'll be working to document this process more clearly soon.
[19:47] <godbyk> kotux: If you subscribe to the ubuntu-doc mailing list, I'll post there when we have updated instructions and you can help us test them out.
[19:47] <godbyk> kotux: In the mean time, if you notice anything that's out of date or incorrect with the current documentation, you can email the list or file a bug.
[19:48] <epikvisi0n> godbyk, sure thing.  Thanks!
[19:49] <godbyk> epikvisi0n: No problem. Thanks for volunteering to help out!
[19:50] <epikvisi0n> What are some essential knowledge that a documentation volunteer should have?
[19:51] <ahoneybun> epikvisi0n: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[19:52] <godbyk> epikvisi0n: Most importantly, you should be able to write clearly and explain how to do something or how something works.
[19:52] <epikvisi0n> ahoneybun, is documentation writing essentially technical writing?
[19:52] <godbyk> epikvisi0n: Knowing all the tools and markup languages isn't quite as important at the moment.
[19:53] <godbyk> epikvisi0n: Essentially, You want to ensure that the documentation you've written can be understood by a fairly general audience.
[19:54] <epikvisi0n> ah, ok.
[19:56] <godbyk> It looks like our time is up here.  If you'd like to continue to discuss documentation, you can join us in #ubuntu-doc.
[19:56] <godbyk> Thanks for coming, everyone!
[19:56] <kotux> thank you godbyk
[19:57] <kotux> thanks pleia2 and bkerensa
[19:58] <ahoneybun> bkerensa: thanks for the help
[20:22] <jono> join us for today's post UDS social beer hangout - feel free to join us at  https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2e35c93b7aca2d5bc4ce8eeaae65aba61ae84205?authuser=0&hl=en or watch at http://youtu.be/xF3SCZ7QFhA