/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/15/#ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.txt

SleepyJeremyhello00:56
geofftyou're a little late, if you were intending to show up for one of the sessions :)01:02
SleepyJeremyunderstood01:04
SleepyJeremyI was under a firewall when the session I was interested was on01:04
SleepyJeremya.k.a. @work01:04
SleepyJeremy:)01:04
SleepyJeremyanybody on from the "Next steps for the click-package prototype for simplified app package installation" session? Or who knows about the app packaging model being proposed for ubuntu touch/phone?01:05
geofftYou should be able to watch the video recording, from the summit page01:07
geofftand see the Etherpad notes.01:07
geofft#ubuntu-devel is probably a better channel to find folks01:07
SleepyJeremyah ok01:08
SleepyJeremyI tried that before, kept being pushed into #ubuntu-touch which nobody is ever watching01:09
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=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Further improvements to the Checkbox release process | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21743/foundations-1305-checkbox-release-process/
zygahi13:54
zygabrendand: so you're leading this one as well>?13:55
roadmrhey!13:55
brendandzyga, indeed13:55
brendandseems this is starting in 3 mins13:56
brendandbrb13:57
zygabrendand: ok, paste the hangout link when ready13:57
roadmrdo we know who'll be helping us with the hangout and stuff?13:57
bdmurrayI will13:57
zyga-udsbdmurray:thanks13:57
roadmrbdmurray: thanks! good morning!13:58
spineauCould someone paste the hangout url again?13:59
spineauplease13:59
brendandbdmurray, paste the link here13:59
roadmrspineau: I don't think we have it yet13:59
bdmurrayhttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da2?authuser=0&hl=en14:00
spineauroadmr: ok, I'm not late then :)14:00
bladernr`whats the link to the BP?14:09
roadmrhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/certify-planning/+spec/foundations-1305-checkbox-release-process14:10
bladernr`thanks14:10
jeffreycyes, CE QA is really happy with current process14:20
bladernr`can you join the hangout jeffreyc14:20
bladernr`https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da2?authuser=0&hl=en14:20
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arahello14:43
roadmrara: hi!14:44
roadmrara: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21d0b82e4f2532f0af0e595e8d62e13abb019da214:44
araroadmr, I will stay on IRC, for the 10 minutes that lasts14:45
arabut thanks :)14:45
roadmrara: ok :)14:45
arazyga, a schedule14:51
arazyga, and when14:51
spideymancan I vote that we only put changes/bug fix note about checkbox core into the changelog? Remove the cruft of job and individual script updates?14:56
araspideyman, that would never be accepted in Ubuntu14:57
spideymanmeh...then we probably need to decouple them from checkbox.14:58
araspideyman, yes, that I agree :)14:58
cjwatsonYou can still summarise changes in Ubuntu though; they don't have to be commit-level or anything14:59
cjwatsonOr you could treat it as an upstream tarball, where we frequently have changes only in upstream changelogs/NEWS files or whatever and don't repeat them in debian/changelog15:00
cjwatsonVarious possibilities15:00
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Kubuntu and UEFI and LTS Backports | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21779/kubuntu-and-uefi-and-lts-backports/
roadmrcjwatson: thanks!15:01
zyga-udsindeed, thanks15:01
zygaara: what did you mean by 'a schedule and when'?15:02
roadmrara: do you know how to go about scheduling another session for tomorrow?15:02
cjwatsonstarting up hangout now15:02
cjwatsonroadmr: ask a suitable track lead15:02
cjwatson(may or may not be space)15:02
roadmrcjwatson: oh ok thanks :)15:02
Riddellafternoon15:03
brendandrunning sessions is tiring :)15:03
cjwatsonKubuntu/UEFI/LTS hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6f16a08fd55e3e6db336ef84515052124bef0e8f?authuser=1&hl=en-GB15:04
arazyga, I meant scheduling the work to be done15:04
zygaara: scheduling the packaging changes? ok15:04
cjwatson(should I expect Kubuntu folks in the hangout?  I'm not certain whether you have the google hangout plugin sorted and such)15:05
cjwatsonah, there15:05
Riddelltxwikinger: ?15:07
cjwatsontxwikinger,xnox: are you joining the hangout?15:07
Riddellapw subscribed too?15:07
* apw is just watching15:07
xnoxcjwatson: i'm watching from a libary. I can provide a pretty picture with a backdrop, but can't speak out loud.15:08
xnox=)15:08
xnox(unless I move elsewhere)15:08
xnoxI'd rather chat on irc.15:08
apwcjwatson, i can see it15:09
xnox\o/15:09
Riddellhttp://blogs.kde.org/2013/05/09/breakouts-uefi15:09
xnoxcjwatson: Riddell: isn't this more about SB, rather than just UEFI.15:10
skellatAny of you have working cameras?15:10
cjwatsonI have mine turned off15:10
cjwatsonI mean if you *really* want to see my ugly mug :P15:11
Riddellmine doesn't seem to work today15:12
Riddellxnox: about SB?15:12
bubbly193no camera here15:13
bubbly193unless it decides to work15:13
xnoxwell, reading the blog post, it is a bit confusing as to what happened there. i only ever always had a single efi partition =/15:14
apwb 4315:14
cjwatsonBug 116762215:15
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116762215:15
cjwatsonThat bug seems to be the root cause of the Kubuntu failure here15:15
cjwatsonI'm not sure why it didn't break Ubuntu as well15:15
cjwatsonCould be related to Kubuntu not using a signed kernel, I suppose, which would mean it would be booted slightly differently15:15
apwcjwatson, we would indeed boot rather differently if we are not using a signed kernel15:16
apwbug 117829415:17
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1178294 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install fails with Kubuntu 13.04 on UEFI system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117829415:17
cjwatsonapw: can you comment on 1167622?  would that cause the precise symptom in 1178294?15:18
cjwatsonthe failure there seems to be "bricks system" rather than "causes set_variable to fail"15:18
apwMay 9 16:52:54 kubuntu ubiquity: Can't access efivars filesystem at /sys/firmware/efi/efivars, aborting15:18
apwthat implies we did not have any access to the efivars at all, perhaps as a result of the mode15:19
apwie not being booted into via the efi entry point15:19
apwon the '50% full' issue for nvram there have been some re-re-re-fixing in the handling of sizes15:20
ckingbug 1167622 gets an efi "EFI_OUT_OF_RESOURCES" error, so it looks like there is not enough free EFI NVRAM free15:22
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116762215:22
apwcking, that might be one of those corner cases the later kernels have worked round, where the firmware lies in some of the size responses15:23
ckingyep, or just lame firmware that can't be worked around, hard to tell15:23
apwindeed15:23
cjwatsondamn, lost my connection15:28
* cjwatson attempts to reconnect but isn't hopeful15:28
* cking notes any EFI status 8000000000000009 means there isn't enough variable space, but we are at the mercy of the EFI run time services so who knows why it really failed15:29
apwcjwatson, i think kernel concurs with your position, that we should get kubuntu using the signed kerenl and then review the remaining issues, the rest ought to be common to ubuntu as well15:29
apwRiddell, is it you who has the list of bugs found during the install, those should be in the pad15:29
xnoxcjwatson: you did well =)15:31
stgrabercjwatson: looks good, same URL15:31
Riddellapw: I filed bug 1178294 for not working on my uefi/sb machine, is that what you mean?15:31
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1178294 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install fails with Kubuntu 13.04 on UEFI system" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117829415:31
* cjwatson tries to find apachelogger's bug15:31
cjwatsonhe said on 2013-05-02 that he was going to file one15:33
apwbug 116762215:33
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1167622 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot change EFI variables using efibootmgr (raring regression)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116762215:33
cjwatsonbug 1171099 - but on reflection it appears unrelated15:36
udsbotuUbuntu bug 1171099 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu Saucy) "kubuntu - plymouth not shown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171099 - Assigned to Harald Sitter (apachelogger)15:36
cjwatsonsorry for derailing, I was triggering mentally on "grub" and "kubuntu" :)15:36
cjwatsonapw,cking: would one of you be a sensible kernel contact if there are still outstanding bugs?15:38
apwcjwatson, yeap poke me15:38
cjwatsondefinitely looks like the first step is "get saucy into gear and try it"15:38
cjwatsonok15:38
apwyep concur, i should have kit to test it with as well, at least a bit15:39
ckingapw, as long as you don't brick it15:39
apwcking, i am sure i will15:40
apwcjwatson, there was a bug somewhere with all the changes connected to it i think, at least all the packages15:41
cjwatsonYeah, I remember that, though I fear it was incomplete15:42
cjwatsonI'll hunt it down15:42
cjwatsonRiddell: is there a blueprint for this, btw?  just asking 'cos if so it would decrease the chance of work items getting lost15:45
Riddellcjwatson: nope, shall I make one?15:46
cjwatsonif you would that'd be great15:46
Riddellcjwatson: voila https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-kubuntu15:52
cjwatsonta15:53
cjwatsondone the seed bits for saucy at least - precise will take more work15:55
cjwatsonand probably ought to make sure first that it works in saucy, anyway15:55
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Mobile Power Management | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21776/foundations-1305-mobile-pm/
loolhey16:02
* pitti waves16:03
* ogasawara waves16:03
ogasawaranot sure if bdmurray or cjwatson is starting up our session16:03
cjwatsonogasawara: bdmurray16:04
bdmurrayogasawara: I should be just a moment16:04
ogasawaraack, thanks16:04
cjwatsonwe had a brief mix-up16:04
ogasawarahttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/d9954311986ea36d3861625cd022d9dc8db2c213?authuser=0&hl=en16:05
ogasawaralool, mfisch, sforshee ^^16:05
ogasawarapitti: ^^ if you feel inclined16:06
apwogasawara, are we live yet ?16:07
ogra_doesnt look like16:07
ogasawarajust starting16:07
apwnot seeing it yet16:08
* ogra_ sees ... 16:09
ppisativideo stutters here...16:10
ogra_it didnt here until you said that !16:10
ppisatiLOL :)16:10
ogra_:)16:11
sforsheehttp://goo.gl/KMlMv16:12
mfischsystem power policy doc: http://goo.gl/KMlMv16:12
rickspencer3I like the mental model that it's a constant battle between the power manager trying to reduce power and apps trying to keep it16:15
rickspencer3so app authors have to do work to fight against the power manager16:16
mfischright, via curated APIs16:16
ogra_yeah the api should help them16:16
rickspencer3yeah16:18
rickspencer3app authors have to wage battle against the power manager, but only through the api16:18
rickspencer3that means the power manager will have the deck stacked in its gavor16:18
ogra_tvyou are16:18
rickspencer3favor*16:18
achiangmaybe google i/o is melting the internet now16:20
mfischseth's video always freezes ;)16:20
brendandQUESTION: at what level will these inhibitors be 'switched on' as it were, such that all the responsibility doesn't lie with each individual app?16:21
pittisforshee: yeah, I think I have like a 10 second lag, sorry16:21
ogra_funny conversation16:21
brendande.g. why have each app that could play music switch it on, when the audio subsystem (pulse?) will know this anyway?16:21
ogra_brendand, well, tha ypi will switchi it on16:22
ogra_*the api16:22
achiangbrendand: the responsibility is *below* the app level16:22
achiangbrendand: the API backend will manage this on behalf of the apps16:22
ogra_i.e. your app plays music ... the api knows that and tells pulse about it16:22
ogra_and pulse inhibits16:22
mfischbrendand: the app calls playBackgroundMusic() and then the audio service/pulse tells power manager "dont suspend"16:22
brendandit seems that it should be inhibited at the lowest level possible that makes sense16:23
mfischbrendand: what do you mean?16:24
achiangbrendand: the whole point of hiding it behind the API is precisely to inhibit at the level that makes sense16:24
ogra_pitti, it think we also want to live that stuff on a system level, not a session one ... logind could be our channel for conversation i guess though16:24
pittiogra_: yes, I agree; you can query them at a system level, but they are still tied to a particular session/seat16:26
pitti(powerd wouldn't need to care about which particular session, of course)16:26
ogra_right16:26
brendandmfisch, i guess my question is answered. that was just a general observation16:26
mfischogra_: thats what we envisioned, logind is out path to match sessions and seats16:27
ogra_yeah16:27
mfischsessions may request a display state and we need to map that to a physical display (seat) which in turn is managed by a system compositor16:27
ogra_did you guys look into teh existing powerd already16:27
ogra_?16:27
mfischogra_: yes, we are currently coding some enhancements onto it to prove out the concepts16:28
ogra_awesome :)16:28
brendandquestion the second: how fine grained can the hardware control be? can it switch e.g. everything off but the wifi chip, or even vice versa?16:28
ogra_the kernel can ...16:28
mfischbrendand: we plan that PM only manages screen power and system power (suspend), but not, for example, low power wifi states16:28
ogra_so the question is how much use do we make of it16:28
mfischif the wifi chip supports some low power mode, for example, the wifi stack deals with that16:29
ogra_(over time)16:29
brendandmfisch, that's true16:29
ckingthe devil is in the unexpected detail, so we need to start somewhere16:29
mfischagreed16:29
mfischjust from starting to implement some stuff I've run into several questions about how the API would work16:30
ogra_he is currently doing it himself16:30
ogra_since he wrote the initial version16:30
apwogasawara, damn straight16:31
ogra_sforshee, about time !16:31
ogra_kernels are boring ... userspace has all the excitiment16:32
mfischChicken: you've got me until friday ;)16:32
brendandmfisch, actually what i meant was that say the only thing that is happening on the system is a file download. what is the most efficient power state that can be reached?16:33
sforsheeogra_, I like kernels ;-)16:33
ogra_:)16:33
mfischbrendand: it depends on the system, realistically probably screen off but not suspended, however, if you had a system where you could download a file without the system CPU, then it would work like this16:34
mfisch(these are made-up API calls), app calls downloadBackgroundFile()16:34
pittiaren't ARM processors more flexible in that regard?16:34
mfischthen download manager decides whether the system should suspend or not16:34
ogra_a lot16:34
mfischright16:34
pittii. e. that they already shut down units which aren't necessary for a particular task?16:34
ogra_depends16:35
sforsheepitti, yes to some degree16:35
loolit's a whole system really16:35
loolon a single chip16:35
* pitti really liked the OLPC which could display a static image with shutting down the CPU and GPU :)16:35
ogra_i.e. if the kernel (and HW) supports the interactive governor you can do very intresting things on that level16:35
rfowlerQUESTION: when suspending the device via power button you should still be able to access a device via adb correct?16:35
ogra_very finegrained too16:35
rfowlerbecause the nexus 10 doesn't16:36
mfischrfowler: I thought on Android there's a wakelock held when you're using adb that prevents suspend16:36
pittiogra_: can you run an ARM CPU at hilariously slow speeds? like 500 kHz or so?16:36
sforsheerfowler, yes, in that case the system should turn off the screen but not suspend16:36
sforsheerfowler, we don't have all the infrastructure in place yet ;-)16:36
ogra_pitti, heh, never tried below 200MHz16:36
ogra_pitti, i suppose it might work though16:36
sforsheemfisch, the nexus 10 kernel doesn16:37
sforsheedoesn't have the same wakelock infrastructure as past android devices16:37
mfischah the n4 seemed to16:37
mfischI dont have a n1016:37
sforsheen4 still uses the old android wakelock model16:37
rfowlerthanks16:37
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/foundations-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Plans for documentation and positioning of the development release | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21761/foundations-1305-development-release-planning/
* cjwatson gets back to the hangout creation dance18:01
cjwatsonhttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB18:02
cjwatsonanyone else joining the hangout?  It's rather quieter than I expected :)18:05
cjwatsonrickspencer3: ^-18:05
cjohnstonis it just you cjwatson ? ;-)18:05
cjwatsonAnd stgraber18:06
rickspencer3hi cjwatson I'd be happy to join18:06
rickspencer3cjwatson, I don't know that I can contribute much technical, thouhg18:06
cjwatsonFair enough, thanks18:07
cjwatsonhttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB18:07
pumpichanksorry, could someone please repost the hangout url?18:09
balloonshttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/375a4beea5be9186d8db528da6728c294bddc025?authuser=1&hl=en-GB18:09
pumpichankthanks18:09
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xnoxstgraber++18:14
pumpichanklet's call it "sid" <wink>18:14
apwcjwatson, would we be able to upload to this new name, i am assuming not18:16
stgraberapw: no18:17
stgraberwell, that's what Rick brought up, but the current plan is a simple symlink at the archive level18:17
stgraberLP wouldn't be aware of that18:17
* xnox ideally wishes _all_ uploads to be phased in the devel release =)18:19
balloonsthe current qa community folks would be happy to run this :-)18:24
cjwatsonapw: Rick brought it up and I hadn't thought about it; it's easy enough to do18:25
cjwatsonstgraber: I was planning to have LP create the symlink, though (in the publisher)18:26
cjwatsonpumpichank: iron rule: no name clashes with Debian :)18:26
cjohnstonIn the session before lunch we discussed how to display key performance indicators on the QA Dashboard that could be  helpful of people trying to decide to update18:26
xnoxthe bit that is missing, is the pop-up: 'wanna see the next ubuntu's wallpaper?' =)))))18:27
xnoxcjohnston: KPI is an indicator, using a devel release should be more playful & impulsive. I think. If one looks at stability indicators, precise will always win.18:27
chiluk`I think the other fear is fear of hardware being killed by the development version...18:28
cjohnstonxnox: sure, however if people are asking on IRC if they should update, that would give them something to look at18:28
balloonsif they are asking to update or not, odds are they aren't good candidates :-)18:29
xnoxI am somewhere between cjohnston & balloons, closer to balloons stance I think =)18:30
cjohnstonI haven't switched yet, but I've thought about it.. partially due to time... but it would still be nice to see if today is looking ok before doing it18:31
balloonsit is fair to ask/check if something is totally borked before upgrading.. but in general, your running the devel release for a specific reason. We hope your running it to help ubuntu itself out by testing, hacking, developing, whatever18:31
cjohnstonthat's what I'm getting at18:31
balloonscjohnston, however, I've never done such a thing.. If an upgrade fails, I file a bug18:32
balloonswait and try again ;-)18:32
cjohnstonIf you can look and see that its going to break and there is already a bug, why try18:33
chiluk`can't we get statistics like that by monitoring accesses to the development repos?18:34
balloonscjohnston, if there was a known issue, I would be more inclined to try :-)18:34
balloonsit's about setting expectations for the release. I don't think anything has to really changed on that front. If your running -devel release things may break18:35
balloonsit's all part of the experience, and to the extent you have an issue, report it, workaround it and move on18:35
pumpichankomgomega18:37
* xnox .o0(now we just need a 7 grade scale of neo-users)18:37
lool"dev"18:38
chiluk`tip++18:38
balloonsyou could still call it rolling :-)18:39
xnoxwhere is the marketing department when you need them? =))))18:39
pumpichankgood thing there's no possibility of bikeshedding the name18:39
pumpichankrickroll18:39
xnox"fresh"?18:39
xnoxlet's call it "tumble weed".18:40
balloonspreview?18:40
xnoxwarty?18:40
TheMusolol18:40
cjohnstonnonameyet18:40
xnoxadjective and an animal? to put into lsb-release os / etc?18:40
balloons+1 nonamyet18:41
chiluk`rolling does already have a bunch of publicity out there.18:41
cjohnstonnonameyet because Mark hasn't picked an animal18:42
cjohnstonheh18:42
plarsvoyager18:42
pumpichankrolling is not bad18:42
balloonshonestly rolling probably communicates things simply, without requiring more explanation18:43
* apw suggests bikeshed18:43
lool+118:43
cjwatsonphk </obscure>18:43
apwlool, no no no, he wants one we cannot have without blowing LP up18:44
lool:-)18:44
chiluk`just blog about it18:44
loolplus it's probably (tm) google18:44
chiluk`that would be help those who are afraid to move early in the development release as well.18:51
Laneyanything else here?18:53
rickspencer3thanks cjwatson18:53
rickspencer3I <3 "rolling" ;)18:53
cjwatsonthanks everyone18:53
chiluk`rolling roadrunner  ...... acme flashbacks18:54
cjwatsonrickspencer3: I'll drop this into the blueprint whiteboard/WIs, so maybe just edit there when I'm done rather than fighting with etherpad18:54
balloonsrick rolling rash roadrunner18:54
balloonsrelease18:54
balloons:-p18:54
apwrickspencer3, it hought you loved the rolling release, hiding it seems odd18:54
cjwatsonah, "export as plain text" from the pad => less unpleasant way to get it into blueprints18:56
cjwatsonrickspencer3: all in the bp now18:56
rickspencer3cjwatson, ok, I'll pop my notes in there then18:56
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | semiannual release schedule review | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21794/semiannual-release-schedule-review/
knomehello19:01
knomewho's running the hangout?19:02
bdmurrayI am19:02
knomei suppose i'd like to join that one :)19:03
knomedefining want in the "should" sense ;919:03
knomeelfy, o/19:04
bdmurrayhttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ef55fe3b04e56166a89aa6c2a748602a149da165?authuser=0&hl=en19:04
elfyknome: yep - I'm here19:04
elfymore or less19:04
knome:)19:05
knomeoodie19:05
knome+g too (not g+)19:05
xnoxis the feed live?19:08
elfyit's very quiet :p19:08
elfyxnox: not that I can see19:08
apwxnox, not here19:08
bdmurrayjust started it19:08
plarshear no evil, see no evil... not live yet19:09
apwbdmurray, there is a heck of a lag from the originators timezone to ones a ways away19:09
stgraberhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule19:09
plarsah, there it is19:09
bdmurrayapw: are you suggesting I move?19:09
balloonsahh video :-)19:09
apwbdmurray, it is the obvious solution :)19:10
xnoxcjwatson: there are bits on the pad to discuss =)19:11
cjwatsonthose were things I said19:12
balloonslol.. yes, milestones seem to be pretty good drivers for flavors19:13
cjwatsonballoons: what was your sense of testing of earlier milestones?19:13
xnoxcjwatson: i see =) lag.19:14
balloonsin comparison to ubuntu, they were pretty tame. However, I do echo stgraber here. Flavors like kubuntu and lubuntu got there work done as part of having milestones; they seemed to like having that 'hard date' in which work needed to be complete19:15
* elfy is listening - I'd agree with what knome has said 19:15
xnoxin-dash payments.19:22
xnoxwas the other one, i think.19:22
balloonsa2 and a3 being so close meant most flavors looking at it weren't going to do one of them :-)19:27
cjwatsonyeah, I think that was among the reasons we deleted a3 from raring19:28
* cjwatson harks back to the days of 7 alphas19:28
knomethe proposed changes sound fine to me19:28
knomenot me!19:29
knomeway to go, mute all the community people >;)19:29
balloons+1 on making milestones ~= monthly cadence19:29
cjwatson:-P19:29
cjwatsonunmute yourselves if you want to talk :)19:29
knomenah19:29
* cjwatson is muted too19:29
balloonslol.. good practice so background noise of your cat doesn't pop in :-)19:30
knomeoh, one can't see who's muted or not. interesting19:30
knomecat pooping in?19:30
=== hikiko-uds is now known as hikiko
knomei was told i type really loudly19:30
balloonswill ff be moved back again?19:31
balloonsI know there was still some drama even with it moved so far back into the cycle19:31
cjwatsonyou're the first person who's expressed a desire to move it back :)19:32
cjwatsonwant to expand?  as stgraber was saying, for once it seems to have been sort of successful19:32
cjwatsonin that we didn't actually have too many major disruptive changes after FF19:33
knomedepends on the release team i suppose19:33
balloonscjwatson, I think I confused everyone.. aka.. it's week 17, will it be week 20 in saucy like raring or no?19:33
balloonsI speaking of feature freeze ^^19:34
cjwatsonright, yeah, like we said there are a bunch of changes we made in raring that don't seem to have been mirrored into saucy19:34
balloonsok.. right, excellent19:34
cjwatsonbasically because there was an incredibly unwise decision several releases ago to create a bunch of release schedules in advance19:34
cjwatsonso now we have to keep remembering to mirror changes ...19:34
cjwatsonAdam took an action to push things over19:35
balloonslol.. you try and make less work for yourself, and boom19:35
elfytring to remember last time that worked for me19:36
balloonsmm.. adam, that's the point of cadence testing19:39
balloonsfyi, if your curious of stats for raring; http://91.189.93.58/ scroll down to the "Raring Image Testers" and "Raring Image Results"19:43
balloonsyou can see the spikes are the milestones19:43
balloonsthe later milestones had much more traction than the early milestones19:44
knomeadam should use xfce ;)19:48
balloonsuse google dns :-p19:48
knomecan you also mail the flavor devel lists?19:51
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/foundations-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1

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