[00:06] <pleia2> knome: did you put your flyer drafts somewhere?
[00:06] <knome> not yet i think
[00:06] <knome> i'll do that tomorrow when i'm on my desktop
[00:07] <pleia2> ok, thanks :)
[00:07] <knome> the magazine still hasn't been published.
[00:07] <knome> i need to extend two more articles one more time for tomorrow
[00:07] <knome> or tell the editor to do "something" :)
[00:07] <pleia2> ah yes, I haven't gotten to those emails yet
[00:07] <knome> i suppose i'll look at them, they both only need 200 chars
[00:08] <knome> yeah, i think he dropped you from the last mails... :/
[00:08] <knome> let me forward
[00:08] <pleia2> I won't have time tonight anyway
[00:08] <knome> oh wait, he did
[00:09] <knome> i think you were lost at some point, maybe my fault
[00:09] <knome> oh, hmm, no, his
[00:09] <pleia2> I haven't even read the ones I got ;)
[00:09] <knome> i'll look at them
[00:09] <pleia2> thanks
[00:09] <knome> this hasn't been working as i expected
[00:10] <knome> i mean i thought we would have gotten the magazine out already.
[00:10] <knome> i don't even want to think about how long we will need to be in touch with him to finalize everything
[00:10] <knome> anyway, i sent him the xubuntu logo and some color suggestion and he promised to make the xubuntu section blue
[00:10] <knome> yay
[00:12] <knome> brb, need to boot
[00:15] <knome> yay, i'm in raring
[00:19] <GridCube> knome will do it on a wiki under my name
[00:20] <knome> GridCube, sure. thanks :)
[00:20] <GridCube> :)
[00:23] <GridCube> :/ i cant log in to the wiki
[00:27] <knome> you can even use a simple paste
[00:28] <GridCube> sure
[00:28] <GridCube> i will do that
[00:42] <knome> ok, i'm off for today
[00:42] <knome> see you all later! :)
[01:18] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/HUD_in_Xubuntu_Rationale
[01:18] <GridCube> pleia2, knome ^
[01:18] <GridCube> micahg, ^
[01:18] <GridCube> please add any question you think its relevant and ill try to answer it
[01:19] <GridCube> i will also consult with tedg who told me to do so, to add/correct any wrong information
[10:29] <Noskcaj> If we discuss Qt any more tomorrow, lubuntu are definitely going with it. https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+archive/lubuntu-daily
[10:29] <Noskcaj> will have the Qt packages soon
[10:42] <knome> humm, from that it looks like only pcmanfm is switching
[16:20] <GridCube> knome, :) did you saw the wiki?
[16:21] <knome> GridCube, no... did you just send an email to the list or edit the blueprint?
[16:21] <GridCube> i just pasted it here
[16:21] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/HUD_in_Xubuntu_Rationale
[16:21] <knome> umm.. okay
[16:21] <knome> i missed that
[16:21] <GridCube> want me to mail it anyway?
[16:22] <GridCube> and btw tedg has already reviewed it and he said it looke alright
[16:22] <knome> no, i'll just add it to the agenda, that's more important
[16:22] <GridCube> :) ok
[16:23] <GridCube> please do tell me if theres any question i might have left behind to try and answer it
[16:24] <knome> i looked through it quickly and it's a good basis for a discussion
[16:25] <GridCube> perfect :)
[16:25] <GridCube> im sorry i cant properly attend :( i will try to be in the irc channel though
[16:26] <elfy> GridCube: I'll be in IRC - I can watch them and hear them - but that's all 
[16:26] <lderan> one small spelling mistake (witch -> which)
[16:26] <elfy> there's others - but I'm not sure we need to worry too much atm 
[16:26] <GridCube> yeah... i always mix those up
[19:15] <knome> mr_pouit, you around?
[19:16] <knome> or somebody else who is following debian stuff?
[19:16] <ochosi> knome: ask Corsac in #xfce-dev
[19:16] <ochosi> (if it's debian-xfce related)
[19:17] <knome> i was just thinking if we have problems with the debian freeze date
[19:17] <knome> i mean the debian import freeze
[19:17] <knome> so probably not just xfce stuff
[19:17] <knome> i believe we're good with that though
[19:18] <ochosi> not sure what the question is :}
[19:18] <knome> cjwatson was asking whether people were okay with the debian import freeze date or if we'd like to move it
[19:18] <knome> we're probably moving it forward
[19:22] <ochosi> hm
[19:22] <knome> to week 12 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[19:56] <knome> i'll have a short break, let's start around .05ish
[19:56] <pleia2> k
[19:56] <elfy> sounds good
[20:00] <Noskcaj> hello
[20:01] <elfy> hi Noskcaj 
[20:02] <lderan> hello
[20:04] <knome> who's here for the meeting?
[20:05] <elfy> I am - very very shortly
[20:06] <elfy> I'm here now 
[20:06] <pleia2> oops, right I am supposed to set this thing up
[20:06] <skellat> Ready and waiting
[20:06] <elfy> pleia2: try and make it non dropping it one :D
[20:06] <pleia2> I need email addys again
[20:07] <skellat> smkellat@gmail.com
[20:07] <elfy> elfyesq@gmail.com
[20:07] <lderan> beetyrootey@gmail.com
[20:07] <Noskcaj> doak.jackson@gmail.com
[20:08] <pleia2> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9e70ee7486b8172cfa5230aa4b4b1619f816cd83?authuser=1&hl=en
[20:09] <drc> and a link for those of us just window shopping?
[20:10] <elfy> pleia2 should have a youtube link I think drc 
[20:10] <knome> pleia2, actually, you don't...
[20:10] <knome> pleia2, just the google url would've been enough
[20:10] <pleia2> http://youtu.be/s2pnZuYvyTY
[20:10] <pleia2> haven't hit broadcast button yet
[20:10] <knome> i'm fine to go
[20:10] <skellat> Rock on
[20:11] <knome> me too (water)
[20:12] <drc> elfy: I know, it was just a gentle reminder...newlyweds tend to be a bit absent minded :)
[20:12] <elfy> :)
[20:12] <elfy> except that the release schedule was completely wrong
[20:12] <elfy> yea - I'll wait before I type next time 
[20:12] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[20:14] <Noskcaj> when i click the link it makes me sign in with my school email, which has  google talk disabled 
[20:14] <ochosi> (someone wrote inthe youtube comments that he/she wants to join)
[20:15] <knome> ochosi, joining?
[20:15] <ochosi> in a little while, yeah
[20:16] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/HUD_in_Xubuntu_Rationale
[20:16] <elfy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/client-xubuntu-1305-software
[20:16] <elfy> oh that one lol
[20:17] <knome> yeah it's linked on the blueprint
[20:19] <ochosi> knome: can you invite me or something? got no clue how to join with g+ on the ipad and i don't wanna type that endless url on a touch-keyboard
[20:19] <Noskcaj> i can't join, can someone invite me via gmail/G+
[20:19] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/HUD for those of us that don't really know well.
[20:20] <lderan> ah that thing
[20:20] <ochosi> pleia2: or can you send an invite plz?
[20:21] <Unit193> Yeah...  I'm not fond of it, but if we do decide to do it, I'd want it easy to disable and remove.
[20:21] <knome> ochosi, Noskcaj: did you get the invites?
[20:21] <elfy> Unit193: I agree with that 
[20:21] <ochosi> nah, not yet
[20:21] <Noskcaj> no
[20:21] <ochosi> wait
[20:21] <ochosi> worksforme
[20:22] <ochosi> (hopefully)
[20:22] <ochosi> meh, just says "waiting for other participants..." :(
[20:24] <pleia2> :\
[20:24] <pleia2> Noskcaj: I sent it to doak.jackson@gmail.com a few minutes ago
[20:25] <Noskcaj> pleia2, i've stil got nothing
[20:25] <ochosi> pleia2: haha, now says "this hangout is already over"
[20:25] <ochosi> (using your email invite)
[20:26] <pleia2> Noskcaj: sent another
[20:27] <pleia2> ochosi: you were on it earlier :\ maybe try the link in channel above again?
[20:27] <ochosi> pleia2: with the laptop it works, i wanted to use the ipad because the mic works better there...
[20:27] <pleia2> ah
[20:27] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[20:28] <pleia2> it's weird seeing ochosi as a person, I think of him as a lego dude
[20:28] <knome> haha
[20:28] <elfy> lol
[20:28] <skellat> Okay, this is actually coming up TOMORROW where Ubuntu is looking at shifting from Firefox to Chromium: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21788/foundations-1305-chromium-default-browser/
[20:30] <elfy> people will do that regardless of what we ship - if we ship A they'll want B 
[20:30] <pleia2> indeed
[20:31] <elfy> I always install clementine for instance - I'm just not loud about it :)
[20:32] <GridCube> i install audacious P:
[20:33] <Noskcaj> I've always installed libreoffice, and i think most people do
[20:33] <knome> Noskcaj, i muted you because there's a lot of bg noise
[20:33] <Noskcaj> knome, i'd noticed
[20:33] <pleia2> Noskcaj: where do you get these stats saying most people install it on xubuntu?
[20:33] <elfy> the way I see it is if people want to not use defaults and want to add things that they use then there's the minimal 
[20:33] <knome> who has that loud bg noise still?
[20:33] <Noskcaj> pleia2, a guess
[20:33] <elfy> not me knome :)
[20:34] <pleia2> I don't have any, and as many people as I see saying they install libreoffice I see people saying they like that we ship with something that doesn't take 3 minutes to load on their old system ;)
[20:34] <pleia2> (admittedly, most of these people are like me and don't use docs/spreadsheets on my desktop much, just need a basic app for sometimes)
[20:35] <mutzs> It would be nice to choose on install which Standard Progs to use
[20:35] <Noskcaj> we should start HUD developement, but keep it to a PPA till 14.10 at least
[20:36] <pleia2> Noskcaj: volunteering to work on that?
[20:36] <Noskcaj> pleia2, i know very little about python, nothing about any other code. i'll tst it as much as possibe though
[20:36] <pleia2> it may be a different conversation if someone got us a proof of concept together for review to confirm we have the resources to write and maintain it and can see what beneft it brings
[20:37] <elfy> pleia2: +1 
[20:37] <skellat> Yep
[20:38] <skellat> I end up using a -default-settings package across the family's computers regardless of the DE they choose to enforce which packages they have available so that there is a consistent environment.  My parents use Lubuntu while I use Xubuntu.  We at least keep a common core of installed applications.
[20:39] <elfy> from a user point of view - people will be used to the current shortcuts - is there any reason to change them?
[20:40] <Unit193> Dang, think it's me.
[20:40] <elfy> :)
[20:40] <pleia2> Unit193 was vacuuming
[20:40] <lderan> :P
[20:40] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[20:40] <skellat> Unit193: I know you're not near Cleveland Hopkins International Airport...sounded like a turbo-fan jet overhead
[20:40] <Unit193> I was getting ready to say some things too. :(
[20:41] <Unit193> skellat: But we do have military planes overhead all the time.
[20:42] <elfy> ochosi: I tend to not have a need to use it much at all 
[20:42] <skellat> Unit193: The big aircraft noise here is rotary-wing aircraft taking patients from Ashtabula County Medical Center to Cleveland Clinic or UHHS Case Medical Center
[20:42]  * elfy too 
[20:43] <Unit193> I mean, otherwise I just use alsamixer.
[20:43] <lderan> i get helicopters randomly flying overhead
[20:44] <Unit193> skellat: C130 here. :P
[20:44] <elfy> foghorn here ... 
[20:44] <skellat> Unit193: That's right, there is an Air Guard base in the Mansfield area isn't there.
[20:49] <Unit193> skellat: You have pulse in L?
[20:50] <skellat> Yeah
[20:52] <Noskcaj> can we go to another topic, because there's a heap of other things on the blueprint
[20:52] <skellat> Noskcaj: Where would you like to go to topic-wise?
[20:53] <Noskcaj> skellat, either of the keyoard shortcut topics, they both would be short-ish topics
[20:53] <elfy> Noskcaj: we went through those 2 :)
[20:53] <Unit193> We kind of already did..
[20:54] <Noskcaj> elfy, oops, i wasn't there.
[20:54] <elfy> :)
[20:54] <elfy> the consensus was a yea to ctrl+alt+t and nah to the other I think
[20:54] <Unit193> Noskcaj: Re: "We should add the shortcut, it's very annoying for someone swapping flavour to either learn a new shortcut or use the launcher"  You wouldn't have to, easy to add.  I have.
[20:55] <elfy> I'll be rewriting the 'help us test' 
[20:57] <elfy> suits me 
[20:58] <Unit193> knome: But not late for your internal clock.
[20:58] <pleia2> elfy: yay!
[20:58] <elfy> thanks everyone 
[20:59] <mutzs> ochosi: maybe an upgrade to the UI of pavucontrol would be good but the functionality is just perfect
[20:59] <knome> Unit193, not at all. but neighbours...
[20:59] <elfy> :)
[20:59] <ochosi> mutzs: yeah, i don't wanna touch the functionality
[20:59] <knome> does somebody want to write a summary of todays session?
[20:59]  * Unit193 figured someone wanted to be last out.
[20:59] <elfy> pleia2: yay to which? 
[20:59] <skellat> I know I could not be an over the highway long haul trucker...I gotta get up and move around...
[20:59] <pleia2> elfy: rewriting
[20:59] <Unit193> knome: Also, we can still use pads for note taking.
[20:59] <knome> pleia2, i had a PM with micah and he also promised to look at the developer docs at xubuntu.org
[21:00] <elfy> pleia2: oic - I knew I should have waited a day lol :p
[21:00] <knome> Unit193, i know, but i don't want to harrass people with my typing :P
[21:00] <pleia2> knome: great
[21:00] <pleia2> elfy: hehe
[21:00]  * pleia2 lunch
[21:00] <knome> "want to look at the dev docs?"  "didn't i do that already?"  "no"  "omg"
[21:01] <elfy> have a good lunch - I'm off to the kitchen for a late night beer
[21:01] <Unit193> pleia2: You are, or are going for it?
[21:01] <knome> pleia2, bon appetit!
[21:01] <knome> elfy, i *am* in the kitchen!
[21:01] <elfy> :)
[21:01] <knome> i hope bluesabre appreciates my lighting more than yesterday!
[21:01] <Unit193> And hopefully I was trolling less. :D
[21:02] <knome> not trolling at all, sir
[21:02] <knome> gosh this chair is uncomfortable
[21:03] <skellat> knome: Isn't that a prerequisite for doing sessions like this?  I've got an uncomfortable chair too.  Then again, I had to drive a wee bit to get back in time so I spent half an hour in the car beforehand too.
[21:03] <elfy> I've spent all day driving 
[21:03] <elfy> which is normal for work lol
[21:03] <knome> skellat, i have a hard kitchen chair, not even a "work" one..
[21:03] <knome> let me take a pic..
[21:09] <knome> skellat, http://temp.knome.fi/other/videoconferencing-at-11pm.jpg :)
[21:10] <knome> if you look closely, you can see the chair seams aren't keeping up as they should...
[21:10] <skellat> knome: Not bad.  I'm sitting at the podcast production computer.
[21:10] <lderan> oh dear :P
[21:10] <knome> what a wonderful setup to sit in for 2 hours! :P
[21:11] <knome> and try to look not too suffering..
[21:11] <knome> skellat, what's wrong with that?
[21:11] <skellat> knome: Nothing.  It is just that when we record podcasts I'm normally standing the whole time I'm recording and somebody else is in the production engineer's seat.
[21:12] <knome> skellat, cool, you got to sit this time? :)
[21:12] <skellat> Yeah.  I prefer to stand.  I normally have a script in-hand when we record The Burning Circle and LISTen: An LISNews.org Program.
[21:13] <knome> ergonomic
[21:13] <elfy> knome: that looks REALLY comfy ... ;)
[21:14] <knome> elfy, definitely!
[21:14] <knome> does it still look like a cave?
[21:14] <elfy> nope
[21:15] <knome> (courtesy of bluesabre after seeing the recording from the first night)
[21:15] <elfy> my cave has paintings on the wall :p
[21:15] <elfy> they paint prison walls that colour in this country ... 
[21:15] <elfy> :p
[21:15] <knome> awwh
[21:15] <elfy> :)
[21:17] <elfy> so - one last real thing before I sit in a comfier chair - as soon as the release schedule has been updated I will redo what I did today 
[21:18] <knome> good
[21:18] <knome> be in touch with me if you want me to review
[21:18] <elfy> subscribing to it
[21:18] <elfy> knome: ok 
[21:18] <elfy> hi bluesabre 
[21:18] <knome> hey sean
[21:19] <bluesabre_> Hey guys
[21:19] <knome> bluesabre_, i just posted a pic of my cave: http://temp.knome.fi/other/videoconferencing-at-11pm.jpg
[21:19] <knome> i hope you appreciate the added lighting today
[21:19] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[21:19] <bluesabre_> Nice touch! 
[21:19] <elfy> oh one more thing - when we starting meetings up? 
[21:20] <elfy> one more one more thing - wwe need to think about what description to have for settings manager now it does more - lderan is sort of with the bug I reported
[21:20] <knome> elfy, i'm about the schedule one for next week of the following
[21:20] <Unit193> Yeah, so I had a wood chair, and already rather sore from yesterday. >_<
[21:21] <elfy> knome: okey foke
[21:21] <knome> Unit193, guess where i sat yesterday's session as well? :P
[21:21] <lderan> ah yeah, my setting manage currently hails hypnotoad
[21:21] <lderan> manager*
[21:22] <knome> what was the outcome of the -core packages again?
[21:22] <elfy> it was a bit ... nothing much got decided I thought 
[21:22] <Unit193> If it doesn't make devs cranky.
[21:23] <knome> ah yeah
[21:24] <bluesabre_> Aren't all devs just happy people? 
[21:24] <skellat> Outcome of -core was for me to write up a further discussion of the issue and some proposals of what such would look like
[21:25] <knome> goodie
[21:25] <elfy> skellat: thanks 
[21:25] <knome> bluesabre_, mostly, lionel isn't
[21:25]  * knome hides
[21:25] <lderan> you can not hide from a developer :P
[21:26] <elfy> I can 
[21:26] <elfy> I'm a myth
[21:26] <bluesabre_> But developers can hide from you 
[21:26] <knome> unfortunately
[21:26] <elfy> lol
[21:28] <Unit193> skellat: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+junk/lubuntu-meta/files  and  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.raring/view/head:/core for examples.
[21:31] <skellat> Unit193: I intend to take at least a couple days working out a nice rationale and proposal.
[21:32] <knome> skellat, i'll happily assist with that
[21:32] <Unit193> knome: I'd just assume you can't switch to using a proposed -core for dist-upgrades? :P
[21:32] <knome> or you can work on it yourself and then bring it to us to be laughed on ;)
[21:32] <skellat> I also want to wait and see what comes of the "dump Firefox for Chromium" discussion
[21:33] <knome> Unit193, hmm. i see no reason why not?
[21:33] <Unit193> knome: Know what I mean?  When you upgrade, it'll pull in xubuntu-desktop, and all the programs you've already purged. :P
[21:34] <bluesabre_> skellat, I'm also interested to see what comes of that 
[21:34] <knome> Unit193, i do
[21:34] <knome> Unit193, but i don't know the internals why that happens
[21:34] <skellat> As it is structured, you'd have to yank one metapackage first and replace it with the other before you did that.  It wouldn't remove the depends of the old metapackage, though.  Going from xubuntu-desktop to a xubuntu-core will leave in place what xubuntu-desktop already had installed.
[21:34] <knome> Unit193, i assume if you installed with the -core, you would upgrade with the core
[21:34] <skellat> knome: Bingo
[21:35] <Unit193> knome: Not that it matters, but here's my purge list after upgrade http://pastebin.com/xGsziUG4 (couple dupes.)
[21:35] <knome> Unit193, not sure about bluetooth in that, but otherwise it looks fine
[21:36] <knome> (at least after a really quick glance)
[21:36] <Unit193> (My personal one, I'm not proposing that for anything. :P )  Just an example.
[21:36] <knome> i understand
[21:37] <knome> it's some kind of starting point anyway
[21:38] <skellat> That's why I figured I'd do some thinking today and tomorrow and then start writing
[21:38] <skellat> And possibly set up some VMs
[21:38] <knome> people who attended, can you check if that's accurate? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5668999/
[21:38] <Unit193> http://pastebin.com/kqfMZQiG this is what was installed for the upgrade to happen, if it matters to you.  I also saved it from the other computer too.
[21:39] <knome> did i miss something or did i remember something wrong
[21:39] <Unit193> knome: First point in HUD, unfinished.
[21:39] <knome> oops. :)
[21:40] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5669003/
[21:40] <knome> new paste
[21:40] <skellat> "skellat: Get apt-offline added to the seeds" should be "skellat: Work with micahg to get apt-offline added to the seeds"
[21:41] <Unit193> (I don't get why core would need a browser, but that's beside the point.)
[21:41] <elfy> other than specifics of who and what that looks right knome 
[21:42] <Unit193> Yep.
[21:42] <knome> is there something wrong with the specifics then? >:)
[21:42] <elfy> no 
[21:42]  * knome is considerate and goes with "Work with a package uploader to get apt-offline added to the seeds"
[21:42] <elfy> though skellat thought so :)
[21:43] <Unit193> Technically, second point of keyboards?
[21:43] <elfy> he said that though 
[21:44] <knome>   » ochosi: Work with a package uploader to get an additional shortcut for Terminal (Ctrl+Alt+T) added to the default settings
[21:44] <knome> happy?
[21:44] <skellat> Yep
[21:44] <skellat> Ooh
[21:45] <elfy> technically Unit193 probably won't be :)
[21:45] <Unit193> And one random point no one will want to hear, synaptic is GTK3 now, and somewhat maintained.
[21:45] <Unit193> elfy: When is he ever?
[21:45] <elfy> thursday last 
[21:45] <skellat> Should add the point: "ochosi and skellat: Work to gain packageset uploader rights for xubuntu through Developer Membership Board process"
[21:45] <knome> ah, right
[21:45] <knome> and bluesabre
[21:46] <elfy> now you're just adding things from elsewhere 
[21:46] <elfy> :p
[21:46] <knome> elfy, no. that was discussed in the meeting
[21:46] <elfy> unless I'd lost you all at some point 
[21:46] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i know. i've seen mockups of the UI and kinda disagreed, but it should improve the situation still
[21:46] <elfy> aah ^^
[21:46] <ochosi> skellat: me? packageset uploader? :)
[21:47] <Unit193> ochosi: Oh?  They're changing it?
[21:47] <skellat> ochosi: We'd get a hurdle removed for maintaining artwork & documentation
[21:47] <bluesabre_> Actually, those maintainers of Synaptic have enlisted my help, if I get a chance to help them 
[21:47] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, afaik they're revamping the UI
[21:48] <bluesabre_> Yeah, complete overhaul 
[21:48] <elfy> of synaptic?
[21:48] <ochosi> skellat: yeah sure, i'd prefer to work via PPAs though that _actual_ packagers can then upload :) (at least atm i don't feel confident about that yet, not sure if i have enough time to dive into packaging)
[21:48] <skellat> ochosi: :-)
[21:48] <bluesabre_> Yeah, ochosi probably has the links to the mockups 
[21:49] <ochosi> indeed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreyjaDev/SynapticNext
[21:49] <bluesabre_> Since he seems to always know where everything is 
[21:49] <elfy> bluesabre_: did anything ever come of looking at the lubuntu software thing? 
[21:49] <elfy> as I just got reminded that it actually exists ... 
[21:49] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, it's on the "might be removed from lubuntu in 13.10" shortlist ;D
[21:49] <elfy> lol 
[21:49] <bluesabre_> It's not worth our time if it doesn't have access to the paid apps 
[21:49] <skellat> ochosi: It would be a long-term goal perhaps.
[21:50] <ochosi> skellat: ok, as a long term goal i don't mind (long term goals can always be "carried forward" ;))
[21:50] <bluesabre_> And non paid but free partner apps
[21:50] <skellat> ochosi: Yep
[21:50] <skellat> ochosi: At least we can get that started this cycle though
[21:50] <ochosi> elfy: rather check appcenter (by the elementary team), not sure whether the future of that one is brighter though
[21:50] <ochosi> skellat: we can give it a try
[21:51] <Unit193> ochosi: ...So not enough people like USC, and prefer synaptic, so they're going to turn synaptic into USC?
[21:52] <elfy> ochosi: I'll look
[21:52] <ochosi> Unit193: i think most people don't like USC for it's incredibly slow interface
[21:52] <ochosi> Unit193: the history-tab might be a nice addition, and the packages-tab seems to do what synaptic does now
[21:52] <Unit193> I personally don't like the UI, and lack of control over it.
[21:52] <lderan> aye i dont go into the USC if i don't have to
[21:52] <elfy> I really never use usc
[21:53] <ochosi> USC is really not made for people who know how to use irc
[21:53] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[21:53] <ochosi> it's for people who have a hard time controlling their mouse
[21:53] <skellat> Unit193: This might be what they have in mind for a paradigm: http://tinysong.com/vJDM
[21:53] <Unit193> lderan: Purged a long time ago, useless to me.
[21:53] <elfy> usc is made for peopel who think adding jockey to software sources was a good plan
[21:54] <bluesabre_> Handy to install Steam
[21:54] <knome> tut tut. :)
[21:54] <bluesabre_> Ha 
[21:54] <elfy> :)
[21:54] <Unit193> Sorry for being very negative.
[21:54] <elfy> it wasn't very 
[21:55] <ochosi> ok, just a quick note about pavucontrol etc: unity uses gnome-control-center's audio dialog, so those two are the same
[21:55] <ochosi> and it looks like this: http://i.stack.imgur.com/OeHrF.png
[21:56] <knome> that doesn't look very promising
[21:56] <ochosi> output contains what is currently in pavucontrol > configuration plus some more effects (that we won't use)
[21:56] <ochosi> the listview still works better for the soundcard selection imo than the combobox we have atm (with lotsa options)
[21:57] <ochosi> and less tabs is also good
[21:57] <ochosi> and a tab specifically for apps
[21:57] <knome> i don't think the soundcard selection should be given too much focus
[21:57] <knome> i suppose that's my main problem with that layout
[21:58] <knome> let's say i have one soundcard, you've just wasted a lot of screen estate
[21:59] <ochosi> in that case we'd have to differentiate between advanced and normal users, which would result in two dialogs, no-one wants that
[21:59] <ochosi> currently we have a separate tab just for the soundcard, that's also a waste imo
[21:59] <ochosi> but anyway, i'll try to come up with a better layout and then we can discuss it again
[22:00] <skellat> From a production perspective though, you do want to have that level of granularity to have different controls for different sound cards.  Even if you're not going full out for Ubuntu Studio, having multiple sound cards allows for possibilities like multi-track recording.  That may be either a prosumer case or, in our case, where we cannot dedicate hardware strictly to functions at the moment but it is a use case for that.
[22:00] <elfy> I'm happy to do that discussing - I wish I could do more than that - but some of us can read voodoo others can't ;)
[22:02] <ochosi> skellat: yeah, that's why i wouldn't wanna "dumb it down"
[22:05] <skellat> And before my cat wanders across the keyboard, I gotta go feed him
[22:05]  * skellat off to do kitchen duties
[22:06] <knome> have fun
[22:06] <ochosi> seeya skellat 
[22:06] <elfy> I think the main thing we need to do from a user perspective is not lose control they have now 
[22:07] <elfy> they will complain 
[22:07] <ochosi> all features will remain there
[22:08] <elfy> making it easier to use I can understand 
[22:08] <ochosi> yeah, we have output/playback and input/recording, which is potentially confusing
[22:09] <elfy> and thinking about it - I'm not so sure that involving studio would be much help - don't they have things like Jack ?
[22:09] <ochosi> they still use pavucontrol, as we found out in the hangout
[22:09] <elfy> ochosi: yea - I hate looking at the tab titles in pavucontrol
[22:09] <elfy> ochosi: do they actually use it - or have it there? there is a difference
[22:10] <elfy> I guess that's the question 
[22:10] <ochosi> we'd have to ask them, but i think both
[22:10] <ochosi> anyway, gotta go sleep now, we can discuss that next week when i hopefully had time to put something together
[22:11] <elfy> I'm wondering if I can contribute more to this sort of thing by being the one that aasks these people these questions - I am only too aware I'm not able to do any of the dirty work and am happy to help where I can 
[22:11] <elfy> night ochosi 
[22:12] <ochosi> elfy: that'd be great if you could get in touch with them
[22:12] <ochosi> i also seem to be totally unable to find usable screenshots of all tabs of the mixer in gnome3
[22:12] <ochosi> so if you wanna take any of these things that'd be a great help
[22:12] <elfy> k - we can talk more about that generally tomorrow 
[22:13] <elfy> see things like that I can do - saves you all time to do 'stuff' :)
[22:13] <elfy> but night then :)
[22:14] <ochosi> k, night! :)
[22:15] <lderan> night :)
[22:23] <lderan> :P
[22:23] <lderan> oops wrong window
[22:27] <elfy> I'd not worry abou that after what I did in #xubuntu :(
[22:28] <knome> elfy, hmm? :)
[22:28] <elfy> yea - was a bit of a fail I'm afraid 
[22:28] <knome> what was... :)
[22:28] <elfy> * WhereIsMySpoon_ (~james@teamfrag.net) has joined #xubuntu
 over the moon with the plate I'd assume
 whut?
 whoops - sorry WhereIsMySpoon - wrong channel :)
[22:28] <elfy> that was 
[22:29] <knome> heh
[22:29] <knome> that's fine
[22:29] <elfy> good job they came back 
[22:29] <elfy> oh it wasn't 'bad' I just don't like screwing up like that in a support channel - they might have not come back 
[22:30] <elfy> hi WildTux 
[22:35] <lderan> is there anything else i can do to help out?
[22:36] <elfy> I'd expect so - just don't take any of the simple non-coding things from me lol
[22:37] <elfy> you can fix settings manager for someone to upload I guess :D 
[22:38] <lderan> woo
[22:39] <elfy> we just need to decide whether to change the description to something that relates to what it is now :)
[22:42] <lderan> indeed we do