=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk === dednick is now known as dednick|lunch === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Delivering a Unity 8 Desktop in Ubuntu 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21785/client-s-unity8-on-desktop/ [13:53] hey [13:53] we just had a change of schedule, unity8 moved to 18utc [13:53] :( [13:53] :( [13:53] (some people couldn't make it to the old slot) [13:53] mterry_uds, kenvandine: do you have a conflict at 18utc? [13:54] should be fine [13:54] cool [13:54] nah, was just excited :) [13:54] kenvandine, you have to be excited for the while morning then, even better! [13:54] ;-) [13:54] whole* [13:54] :) [13:55] So what is going in this slot? [13:55] tedg, nothing [13:55] seb128, the next session is going to be weird then... [13:55] or "Provide more render types for Dash lens" if somebody wants to do that [13:55] it should go after the unity 8 session [13:55] the session seemed a kylin one with no subscriber that was scheduled by mistake [13:55] I dropped it [13:56] * tedg doesn't want to do it [13:56] k, let's keep it dropped then [13:56] Perhaps we should just have the tedg and kenvandine comedy hour [13:56] yeah! [13:56] The Internet has been waiting for that. [13:56] can we get kenvandine to complaining about tedg's naming skills? ;-) [13:56] the internets [13:57] to complain* [13:57] * kenvandine just did :) [13:57] BETTER THAN CAT VIDEOS! [13:57] doh, can't type [13:57] ;-) [13:57] seb128, That's all kenvandine does, not sure we could expect him to stop ;-) [13:57] seb128, what about the desktop unity polish for 13.10 session? shouldn't that go after the unity 8 in 13.10 session? [13:57] kenvandine, there is no slot after 18utc [13:57] i know :) [13:58] but having it first seems like a waste === timchen1` is now known as timchen119 [13:58] Wait. Isn't the unity 8 in 13.10 session first? [13:58] kenvandine, what outcome from unity 8 is important? [13:59] RAOF, pmcgowan just asked me to change it to 18utc because tvoss can't make it [13:59] morning all [13:59] RAOF, you can go sleep for an extra hour :p [13:59] oh [13:59] seb128: Extra hour? That's 4am. [14:00] seb128, i guess the unity polish session is really all about unity 7 [14:00] RAOF, make it extra 4 hours? ;-) [14:00] kenvandine, that's my guess [14:00] can /me have an invite for the hangout pls [14:00] seb128 ^ [14:00] olli, no session [14:00] reschedule for 1800 utc [14:00] olli, RAOF, pmcgowan just asked me to change it to 18utc because tvoss can't make it [14:00] that tvoss [14:01] We have the wrap-up at 18:00... I didn't think sessions could conflict with that... [14:03] no [14:03] wrapup is 19utc [14:03] wrap up? the closing plenary is 1900 utc [14:03] heh [14:03] and now I have a conflict with sessions at 1800, thanks [14:03] I have an idea for unity 8, but I can't make it, now it is rescheduled... what are my options? [14:04] GuidoPallemans, it's a 18utc [14:04] bregma, what session conflicts? [14:04] seb128: I know it is in 4 hours, but I can't be there since it has been rescheduled. How can I present my idea now? [14:04] Sorry, I just got up, brain not working yet... [14:04] the Unity8-on-desktop vs. the start-applications-with-upstart [14:05] I'll get one of my henchmen to hassle Ted [14:05] GuidoPallemans, write them on the etherpad for the session? [14:05] or catch bregma now if he has time [14:05] GuidoPallemans, http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-s-unity8-on-desktop [14:05] oh, yeah, thanks for the tip :D [14:06] evidently I have the time [14:06] bregma, great idea... we need more henchmen after tedg [14:08] * tedg whips out his katana, "Bring on the henchmen!" [14:09] My entire goal for that session is to make that foundation's problem, not mine :-) [14:10] bregma, the app launch stuff seems like a Trevinho topic ;-) [14:10] can anyone read my idea at http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-s-unity8-on-desktop ?is it worth sharing? [14:11] and expressed well? I won't be able to attend [14:11] GuidoPallemans, the session is not really about discussing unity 8 design or feature [14:11] oh [14:11] it's about how we make it available in Ubuntu [14:11] oh ok [14:11] is there a more applicable session for this? [14:11] you should probably just use #ubuntu-unity on IRC or the mailing list to discuss design ideas [14:12] I don't think so [14:12] but the team is available any day on IRC [14:12] hmm [14:12] you can just try to discuss the topic there [14:12] #ubuntu-unity [14:12] I'll check that out then [14:12] thanks! === rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3 === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1 === dednick|lunch is now known as dednick === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Desktop Unity Polish for 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21784/client-s-unity7-polish/ [14:59] seb128, I'll take an invite for this one [14:59] bregma, ^ [15:00] olli, oh, this one is moved to 19utc... [15:00] joking ;-) [15:00] run! [15:00] I should! [15:01] olli, bregma, andyrock_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/62aab287aaaf62b9da6e28880c32a8d8de7fc4df?authuser=0 [15:01] trevinho, Trevinho|UDS: ^ [15:02] Compiz lost the Ring Switcher in 13.10 QQ [15:06] ok, session broadcast started [15:07] shoot, forgot to grab me some coffee [15:07] video cast: http://youtu.be/g7CNGm9fZgQ [15:07] olli: too late :p [15:09] this is about the Polish version of 13.10 right? ;) [15:09] we confused bregma [15:10] this is about the 13.10 default desktop [15:10] olli: he looks confused! [15:10] correct, what changes Unity 7 (nux) will see in 13.10 [15:10] had to close etherpad [15:10] bregma, shall somebody else present on your behalf [15:13] where are the blueprints? [15:13] that might be a short session ;) [15:13] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-unity7-polish [15:13] thanks [15:15] seb128: you think this moment might be suited for my idea too? [15:15] if it's Unity 8 then probably not [15:15] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgbjHLzk4QTdDNGM1hEeDlZWVNrQzBfckdHY2M2Rmc#gid=0 [15:15] but it's not strictly unity 8 [15:17] GuidoPallemans, not sure, ask bregma? [15:18] the hangout seems down [15:18] sorry, my box is ultraswapping [15:18] should be back up [15:20] GuidoPallemans, if you want to join the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/62aab287aaaf62b9da6e28880c32a8d8de7fc4df?authuser=0 [15:20] joining... [15:20] Idea: Let the launcher bar at the left react like on ubuntu touch, when dragging a finger from the side of the touchpad of a laptop - also possible: drag from top to go through indicators, drag from the right to do alt-tab, drag from bottom to open hud - should be possible to opt out (settings->mouse) - pro: nobody uses the side of the touchpad to initiate mouse movement anyway - con: scrolling with the right/bo [15:21] installing plugin... [15:23] had network issues [15:27] Is there still no plan on including the "Use online results" option to the installer? [15:28] so did I miss the est. dates for landing these things? [15:29] balloons, 100 scopes is in the next few weeks, compiz trunk probably sooner, other things later, and bugfixes are ongoing [16:01] chromium as default in 5 minutes === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Foundations | Chromium as default browser | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21788/foundations-1305-chromium-default-browser/ [16:01] seb128: what's the URL for joining discussion? [16:01] qengho, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0 [16:02] session is in 5 minutes, I started the hangout [16:02] just grabbing a drink and I will be back === chrisccoulson is now known as firefox-is-aweso [16:05] ah crap, not enough characters === firefox-is-aweso is now known as chrisccoulson [16:05] firefox-is-aweso: Not quite, nick character length limit. :p [16:05] chrisccoulson: ^^ [16:05] chrisccoulson: But I happen to agree with you. [16:06] chrisccoulson, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0 [16:06] you're going to make me install google software now? ;) [16:07] hahaha [16:07] chrisccoulson, bet we are! [16:07] chad looks like the most interesting man in the world ;) [16:07] The blueprint mentions some. [16:08] you should check the pad..there are a list of reasons against chromium [16:10] oh, I can see a chrisccoulson [16:10] chrisccoulson, how is google's software working? ;-) [16:11] seb128, i hate it [16:11] ;) [16:11] ;-) [16:11] i install google-talkplugin at the end of the session :P [16:12] does chromium support multiple different profiles? i use that a lot with firefox [16:12] I'm a long-time Ubuntu user...it doesn't make sense to me why Ubuntu would switch from Firefox...Chromium is dominated by for-profit Google, which is supporting DRM and other things at odds with Ubuntu's values [16:12] will Chromium continue lagging Chrome stable or have you sorted out whatever build issues there are? [16:13] jasoncwarner: fyi, I added a question to the bottom of the etherpad [16:13] does v8 have arm64 support? [16:13] ooohh [16:13] jdstrand: could you paste it here? [16:13] Question: What about adobe-flash support? Will Chromium automatically retrieve the latest adobe-flash package? [16:13] jasoncwarner: what are the plans for security support? (ie, we have predisclosure with mozilla but haven't with chromium in the past). Lack of predisclosure could delay timely updates [16:14] chromium is very in-your-face about wanting you to log in, which potentially allows it to tie your activities to your account. Potential privacy implications should be considered, i.e. bringing another organization (amazon, now google) into the controversy? [16:14] jasoncwarner, the arm64 is more interesting.. since soon it will be the default ARM arch I will think [16:14] but I cant imagine google wont fix that for the chromebooks though [16:15] does chromium support multiple different profiles? i use that a lot with firefox [16:15] my default browser is chomium specially due to a couple of extensions, but specially because setting up sync on firefox tends to be harder, so I give up [16:15] pumpichank: I believe that's going away in firefox [16:16] does chromium support multiple different profiles? i use that a lot with firefox [16:16] * Laney eyes pumpichank [16:16] does chromium support multiple different profiles? i use that a lot with firefox [16:16] he's asking the question once per profile [16:16] pumpichank, yes, i believe it does [16:17] goodness, kiwi is horrible [16:17] @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you [16:18] qengho: fyi, firefox only very recently got the pdf.js in Ubuntu [16:19] yes for pds,js ! [16:19] except that it might not be very stable [16:19] chromium is much more performant on ARM [16:20] alex-abreu, it should be more stable in theory, as it doesn't add any extra native code or additional API's (and thus doesn't widen the attack surface either) [16:20] unlike things like adobe reader ;) [16:20] hangout just died [16:20] *sigh* [16:20] same here [16:20] dead [16:20] And we want to use more Google products in our distro. Awesome idea. [16:20] NOT! [16:20] lol [16:21] can everyone see us? [16:21] no [16:21] no [16:21] jasoncwarner: no [16:21] No. [16:21] chrisccoulson, sure I was using the word stable as in ... "works" for a great variety of PDFs and is secruity proof (using & testing it w/ malformed / malign dfs) [16:21] no [16:21] there's probably some lag [16:21] jasoncwarner: hangouts died [16:21] "We'll be right back" [16:21] oops [16:21] still down? [16:21] back [16:21] yup [16:21] oh! back up now [16:21] back [16:21] yup [16:21] great [16:21] I'll continue with the questions from the top [16:21] chrisccoulson: its back now [16:21] its back [16:21] ^ === blitzkrieg3 is now known as jmleddy [16:22] video is back [16:22] @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you [16:22] jasoncwarner, chrisccoulson: you guys are back..no worries [16:22] @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you [16:22] @pumpichank any questions prefix with QUESTION and dont worry they will get to you [16:23] hate kiwi [16:23] QUESTIOn/IDEA did we try to create some bridges w/ some chromium/google devs to ease up the collaboration or something (I am thinking about the more and more restricted amount of enabled plugins etc.) [16:24] this ^ thinking about webapps [16:24] pumpichank: yes, arbitrary profiles. [16:24] Command-line switch. [16:24] @TheMuso if people already use google products is not like not having it default will keep them from using it :p [16:25] chrisccoulson: yes [16:25] TheMuso: Chromium:Google :: Ubuntu:Canonical. Just a sponsor. [16:25] jasoncwarner, chromium automatic checks for outdated plugins .. and warns you about it w/ a banner [16:25] flash [16:26] alex-abreu: Chromium does something similar. Upstream even blacklists ones that are insecure. [16:27] qengho: I know about the relationship with chromium and Google. [16:27] qengho, yes, ... I had to work around that w/ webapps remember [16:27] and we don't control that nor are aware of what there plans are [16:27] TheMuso: So, your complaint with other code? You don't like libprotobuf or something? [16:27] Can we please the native window decorations turned on by default in the chromium package so it at least _looks_ like other ubuntu apps? [16:27] and has the win buttons on the same side [16:27] @TheMuso if people already use google products is not like not having it default will keep them from using it :p [16:28] alex-abreu, it's the same for firefox (mozilla have a blocklist for plugins and addons that we don't control) [16:28] and the message that I had from some of their guys was a bit "discouraging" from the perspective of linux default plugins [16:28] mdeslaur: native win dec will be on by default in next. Already done. [16:28] QUESTION: what's best for the convergence ? or doesnt matter because Ubuntu's own browser from the phablet, be [16:28] qengho: cool, thanks [16:28] I am not clear on the main rationale for switching to Chromium as the default [16:28] qengho: I trust Firefox somewhat more than I do Google. [16:28] chrisccoulson, yeah, but their extension mechanism w/ jsctypes allows for an easier integration that does not require binary plugins [16:29] I've heard a lot of "Why Chromium wouldn't be so bad" but not a lot of "Why Chromium is better than Firefox" [16:29] most of the time [16:29] TheMuso, ditto ;) [16:29] jj345: many people feel that chromium is faster/snappier [16:29] I don't have a strong preference, but I also tend to trust Mozilla more than Google [16:29] Will Canonical make more money from Google with Chromium as the default vs Firefox? [16:30] i have to say, i run both side-by-side daily, and ffx definitely feels slower and pokier [16:30] that's on x86, and the difference is even starker on ARM [16:30] has that been measured? [16:31] jj345: No. Probably less, in fact. The default "Home" page isn't a google $earch any more. [16:31] I don't understand, Firefox has bigger market share https://www.netmarketshare.com/ [16:31] take figures for any of these sites with a pinch of salt [16:31] Laney: i've tried measuring, but it's really hard to do an apples-to-apples [16:32] they all tell you something different ;) [16:32] jj345, situation is different in different countries [16:32] yeah, like all brits use safari [16:32] as well [16:32] Laney, they do, I read it on the internet this morning! [16:32] the brits *invented* safari! (and tea time) [16:32] There's plenty of open slots in the hangout so if you're participating actively perhaps you'd consider joining [16:32] achiang, ... and jello ... [16:32] will Chromium continue lagging Chrome stable or have you sorted out whatever build issues there are? [16:33] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers [16:33] http://royal.pingdom.com/2013/03/21/browser-wars-2013/ [16:33] http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-201204-201304 [16:33] vasa1: those are never more than several days behind. There's one right now, but it's not normal. [16:34] so what's the security window then [16:34] I wish chromium had a print preview feature [16:34] say it's 2 days after a stable chrome release and it fixes some security issues [16:34] I don't know how much I find raw usage stats compelling as they can be influenced by a lot of factors [16:34] Missed this one: Will Canonical make more money from Google with Chromium as the default vs Firefox? [16:35] jj345: No. Probably less, in fact. The default "Home" page isn't a google $earch any more. [16:35] qengho: ok thanks [16:35] a usability study comparing the two would probably be good [16:35] jcastro: +1 [16:36] What are we going to be using on mobile? I know it will be webkit based, but will it be Chromium or another frontend to webkit? [16:36] also do we care that there's no built in pdf reader in chromium? Or do we just punt to evince? [16:37] TheMuso: highly likely *not* actual chromium [16:37] How much work is involved porting firefox vs chromium to mir? [16:37] jcastro, we didn't have a pdf viewer in firefox for years either [16:37] jcastro: we punt. We ask evince to implement pepper API. [16:37] WebKit or Blink? [16:37] QUESTION: what you guys think about Blink ? will it affect web apps or [16:38] jj345: webkit, specifically. [16:38] achiang: Is that going to be the case for the converged story as well? [16:38] qengho: thanks sorry I missed it earlier. [16:38] qengho: thx [16:38] TheMuso: i don't know the plans for converged browser, unfortunately [16:38] achiang: Ok I'll guess I will have to wait till next cycle. [16:40] jj345: see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-webkit-maintenance [16:40] jj345: it's off-topic for this, but it is being discussed [16:41] y it is a bit off-topic, was curious, thanks [16:41] any other questions? [16:41] I have some questions about webapps [16:41] mind if I pop in the hangout? [16:42] jcastro: sure [16:42] what's the update policy going to be for chromium in stable releaes? [16:42] jcastro, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0 [16:42] and will we continue to see firefox updated in the same way either way? [16:42] what's the next step in this process? [16:42] QUESTION: are we committed to backporting chromium to older LTS, for *all* architectures? :) [16:42] (at least arm*) [16:42] achiang: all supported! [16:43] achiang: not arm [16:43] all supported ubuntu releases get today's chromium. [16:43] achiang: j/k [16:43] only powerpc [16:43] jasoncwarner: i hate you for giving me a temporary heart attack [16:43] hehe [16:44] * achiang forces jasoncwarner to eat a carb-laden potato [16:45] aiui webapps will not be impacted by a switch to chromium [16:45] I can join and explain [16:45] jcastro, about webapps ... webapps already work on chromium [16:45] achiang, jasoncwarner will accept the potato if it comes with a steak [16:45] and w/ the chromless [16:46] chrisccoulson: no steak, just a tofurkey for extra punishment [16:46] webapps are being built around QtWebkit [16:46] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f161b5a8b434d23cba668ceb7b223ff6eafde420?authuser=0 [16:46] jcastro, ^ [16:46] got it, thanks! [16:46] jcastro, deep design [16:46] nah, jasoncwarner explained it [16:46] about 15 minutes left...any other questions or concerns? [16:47] QUESTION: what you guys think about Blink ? will it affect web apps or [16:47] QUESTION: what about the Ubuntu Touch Browser? can I run that on my netbook? [16:47] * rickspencer3 assumes it will be faster [16:47] sorry kiwi hates me [16:47] jasoncwarner, do we have a blueprint page for the work (or potential work involved) ? ... [16:48] I can answer madjr's question if necessary [16:48] rickspencer3, it should indeed [16:48] QUESTION: The point of the session was to consider whether to switch, how will this decision be taken, given the feedback and points raised here today, and how/when will this be announced? [16:48] rickspencer3: it was an accidental question [16:48] the web interface has a habit of repeating peoples lines [16:48] packaged apps: http://developer.chrome.com/trunk/apps/about_apps.html [16:49] jasoncwarner: yes, question answered, I blame the ~2-minute youtube lag :) [16:50] roadmr: no worries ;) [16:50] last chance! any more questions? [16:50] alex-abreu: the /topic has a Blueprint link, which will have these work items for closing the feature gaps. [16:50] lol [16:50] is the lag actually that bad? [16:50] qengho, oops sorry missed that [16:50] not a troll! [16:50] chrisccoulson: yes, pretty bad [16:50] rickspencer3: :) [16:50] chrisccoulson, it is bad :) [16:50] wow [16:50] chrisccoulson: like 30 secs [16:50] I find chromium to be massively faster on my older hardware [16:51] rickspencer3: I believe that is the consensus [16:51] I find it to be a tradeoff, faster but more RAM is used. [16:51] rickspencer3, +1 [16:51] i don't have old hardware ;) [16:51] but I run it on an Atom machine and it's pretty snappy [16:51] jcastro, well, I have a 1gig netbook, and firefox kills it [16:51] jcastro, it might actually change w/ blink as they have more controler over allocators & all [16:51] thanks everyone...ending the hangout, though we can continue chatting here [16:51] jcastro: chromium is *much* faster on ufa ;) [16:52] ufa? [16:52] ubuntu for android [16:52] thx [16:52] i think it's well established that firefox desktop sucks on arm [16:52] thanks jasoncwarner [16:52] thanks everyone [16:52] rickspencer3 I have moved exclusively to chromium from firefox on my old machines, just FYI. that is an n=1 datapoint, but I find it much, much faster. [16:52] thx! [16:52] which is why mozilla rewrote firefox for android ;) [16:52] jasoncwarner, n=2, I'm the same [16:53] firefox brings my older hardware to it's knees [16:53] like, I can't look at FB on my netbook in Firefox :( [16:53] that's fb's fault :p [16:53] I take it these points were well tread in the session that I missed [16:53] seb128, well, it works fine in Chromium [16:53] weird [16:54] but yeah, the performances difference was discussed earlier in the session [16:54] seb128, did they discuss the profiles features in Chromium [16:54] it is so awesome [16:54] no [16:54] will chrome packaged apps work on chromium ? they dont look like browser tabs [16:55] madjr, why wouldn't they? [16:55] madjr, they run chromeless but all the support is in chromium no chrome [16:55] not [16:55] a cool [16:56] a cool [16:56] a cool [16:56] ;/ [16:56] another +1 for chromium then (till ff catches up) [16:57] /c [16:57] mmm, well we've been criticised in the past for enumerating deficiencies in default applications while trying to argue to switch away from them and not before [16:57] like "you have all these problems that are so serious that we can't advocate your software any more but we never raised them with you as such" === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1 [17:03] * Laney will probably try to say something more eloquent in response to the thread === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [17:37] I see no problem, since I already switch my default to chromium on new installs anyway [17:47] i can attest that on my 1gig machine, Firefox runs just as poorly === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Delivering a Unity 8 Desktop in Ubuntu 13.10 | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21785/client-s-unity8-on-desktop/ [17:58] seb128, you running this session? [17:59] I thought bregma is [18:00] doesn't the track lead set up the session? [18:00] bregma, that's what I was thinking :) [18:00] tvoss, bregma: I "host" the session [18:00] seb128, ah :) bregma should obviously lead :) [18:00] but I don't have an agenda of what to discuss to "lead" [18:00] good [18:00] starting the hangout now [18:01] I will give you the link in 30s [18:01] 1 mississippi [18:02] 2 mississippi [18:02] olli, tvoss, bregma: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0f27676dfa03ae37619f5f68d91ed49e6acd0532?authuser=0 [18:02] ;-) [18:02] ;) [18:02]