| DarkEra | brb | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| === JTa is now known as JTa_aFK | ||
| === saidinesh is now known as saidinesh5 | ||
| === jussi01 is now known as jussi | ||
| DarkEra | hi smartboyhw | 11:07 |
| DarkEra | i'll be back later, need to sort some important things first and go for a daily walk | 11:07 |
| ttoine | zequence, do you have the credential for our twitter account, please ? | 15:32 |
| zequence | DarkEra: The meta is built. haven't tried it myself yet | 21:10 |
| zequence | Should basically install a gnome desktop system | 21:11 |
| zequence | I mean, the ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome package in ppa:zequence/testing | 21:11 |
| zequence | I will move it to another PPA later, but at least it seems to work | 21:11 |
| DarkEra | zequence, you read minds? i just wanted to highlight you and ask how to proceed :) | 21:12 |
| DarkEra | i'm going to fire up VB now, can i still add your testing ppa then? | 21:13 |
| zequence | DarkEra: Sure. But, before you install anything, let's make a snapshot of the netinstall first. I'll have a look too | 21:15 |
| DarkEra | zequence, i took a snapshot of it last night so all is set | 21:16 |
| zequence | DarkEra: Ok, so just login, and then: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:zequence/testing | 21:16 |
| zequence | There's only one package there for saucy right now | 21:17 |
| zequence | Or, one source package that is | 21:17 |
| zequence | Which includes all of our meta packages | 21:17 |
| zequence | Then: sudo apt-get update | 21:17 |
| === JTa_ is now known as JTa | ||
| zequence | finally: sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome | 21:17 |
| DarkEra | ok, working on it now | 21:18 |
| DarkEra | zequence, it says it didn't find the add-apt-repository command | 21:21 |
| zequence | DarkEra: Ok, must be in some package. let me look | 21:22 |
| DarkEra | ok | 21:22 |
| zequence | DarkEra: Try installing software-properties-common | 21:24 |
| zequence | Should not depend on any gui stuff, only a few libraries | 21:24 |
| DarkEra | that did it, going to update and install the package | 21:27 |
| DarkEra | ok, it's installing | 21:30 |
| zequence | I'm installing too right now | 21:45 |
| zequence | Forgot to take a snapshot :P | 21:45 |
| zequence | Will have to reinstall all over again | 21:45 |
| DarkEra | oops | 21:46 |
| zequence | hmm, since from what I understand, Lubuntu doesn't include pulseaudio, a ubuntustudio-desktop-lxde might be interesting to some folks only for that reason | 21:49 |
| zequence | Besides, it would also be the most efficient on older machines | 21:49 |
| zequence | We'll need some kind of procedure for maintaining these desktops, so that we don't fall behind, and that we don't inlcude stuff we don't need | 21:50 |
| DarkEra | if it's light enough yes, i tried lubuntu once for fun last year but found it using a bit more RAM compared to Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio 12.04 | 21:52 |
| DarkEra | yep, agreed | 21:52 |
| zequence | I really doubt it uses more RAM | 21:55 |
| zequence | but, browsers use a lot of it | 21:55 |
| zequence | It should be the one using least resources as is | 21:56 |
| zequence | cool, my patch to pulseaudio-1.1 worked | 21:57 |
| len-1304 | zequence, what kind of patch? | 21:58 |
| zequence | jack/PA issues should be fixed in Quantal and Precise within the month | 21:58 |
| DarkEra | indeed, browser use a lot of ram. We could give it a try and i'm sure people ask about a LXDE version in time. That was the case with Dream Studio too | 21:58 |
| * len-1304 is installing zequence's gnome meta.. | 21:58 | |
| zequence | len-1304: a patch made of the upstream commits that fixes the reserve card issue | 21:58 |
| len-1304 | Good ! | 21:59 |
| DarkEra | len-1304, cool :) | 21:59 |
| zequence | My install worked fine, but mouse and keyboard aren't working | 22:00 |
| zequence | Had to disable mouse integration | 22:02 |
| DarkEra | still busy installing :P | 22:02 |
| zequence | That means, the Virtual system captures your mouse, and you need to use the right Ctrl key to uncapture it | 22:02 |
| len-1304 | I shouldn't have that problem then. | 22:03 |
| zequence | Well, now the mouse moves, but that's all.. | 22:03 |
| len-1304 | Um, why do we have GDM? Will gnome not work with lightdm? | 22:04 |
| zequence | You can choose between the two | 22:04 |
| zequence | The Gnome GDM has gone through some pretty big changes | 22:04 |
| len-1304 | I left lightdm as default. | 22:04 |
| zequence | Or, GDM | 22:04 |
| DarkEra | i'll keep my grey hair crossed and hope that after the install everything works as should | 22:05 |
| len-1304 | I can change it after install anyway I would guess | 22:05 |
| zequence | Doesn't really matter which you use | 22:06 |
| zequence | Unless you really want one over the other | 22:06 |
| len-1304 | zequence, I would suggest in this case, choosing one DM as default and not installing one for each DE. | 22:06 |
| zequence | Well, one should probably not install more than one DE, but that is up to the user | 22:06 |
| len-1304 | The gnome meta installs gdm, but gives the user the choice of which is default. | 22:07 |
| len-1304 | The set of packages is not big, but it sure has a lot of packages. | 22:08 |
| DarkEra | i noticed this afternoon that gnome also pulls in unity by the way. On my ubuntu Gnome partition i can choose in session from the login screen. So we have 2 DE's already | 22:10 |
| len-1304 | That may not happen when MIR hits. | 22:10 |
| len-1304 | Ya there is an app called unity here. | 22:13 |
| len-1304 | It would be good to find out if that is a depends or recommends | 22:14 |
| DarkEra | right, nothing is responding. so can't log in | 22:17 |
| zequence | Must be something about the graphics | 22:17 |
| DarkEra | mouse moves and that's it | 22:18 |
| DarkEra | hmmm | 22:18 |
| zequence | or xorg | 22:19 |
| len-1304 | Well xfce comes back ok... try gnome next. | 22:19 |
| len-1304 | But 4000 xruns doing nothing already... | 22:20 |
| len-1304 | At -p 128 which on this machine is normally clean | 22:21 |
| len-1304 | Failed to execute default terminal emulator | 22:22 |
| len-1304 | xfce terminal doesn't run. | 22:23 |
| zequence | len-1304: Are you on lowlatency? | 22:23 |
| len-1304 | I'm looking for a terminal that will run... | 22:25 |
| zequence | len-1304: Ctrl+Alt+F1 | 22:25 |
| zequence | DarkEra: I might have found a solution | 22:27 |
| DarkEra | ok, shoot :) | 22:27 |
| zequence | DarkEra: In the main VirtualBox Gui: File - > Preferences -> Input | 22:27 |
| zequence | disable auto capture keyboard | 22:27 |
| zequence | I'm currently reinstalling myself | 22:28 |
| len-1304 | Ya I figgured that. It is generic. | 22:28 |
| len-1304 | I didn't have that before. | 22:28 |
| zequence | len-1304: So, maybe the desktop meta pulled it in | 22:28 |
| len-1304 | But that shouldn't stop the terminla from running | 22:28 |
| zequence | no, it shouldn't | 22:29 |
| len-1304 | I'll go try a gnome login now. | 22:29 |
| DarkEra | zequence, ok looking into it | 22:30 |
| DarkEra | nope, nothing | 22:31 |
| len-1304 | un | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | ity | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | is | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | ve | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | ry slo | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | w | 22:33 |
| DarkEra | hahaha | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | But it runs. The gnome session fails to start. | 22:33 |
| len-1304 | The application start buttons on the left are so slow it seems like they do nothing. | 22:35 |
| len-1304 | Ah, xterm works. | 22:37 |
| zequence | What I've done is I've copied the desktop seed file from Ubuntu Gnome, without going too much in detail other than renaming ubuntu-gnome-desktop to ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome where ever it was required | 22:39 |
| zequence | So, it's not exactly well thought through so far | 22:39 |
| len-1304 | Status so far is that it gets me a very, very slow unity and no gnome. | 22:40 |
| len-1304 | Back in studio (xfce) I now have two audio controls in systray. | 22:40 |
| zequence | len-1304: is this the machine with the very old graphic card? | 22:41 |
| len-1304 | Older.... I have an s3 if you would like to try that ;) | 22:41 |
| len-1304 | Its even older | 22:41 |
| len-1304 | Ya this is the old nvidia | 22:42 |
| zequence | Is there a gnome classic still? | 22:42 |
| len-1304 | Not on the lightdm menu. | 22:42 |
| zequence | Could be a problem with no graphic card support. I'll probably need to install this on my machine | 22:43 |
| len-1304 | unity is spending so much time on fading windows in and other non-useful stuff it hardly runs | 22:43 |
| zequence | I'm trying lighgdm this time | 22:43 |
| DarkEra | zequence, want me to look on my ubuntu gnome install and check that? | 22:43 |
| zequence | DarkEra: If you like. But, our meta should (in theory) have what Ubuntu Gnome has (at least for saucy) | 22:44 |
| DarkEra | right | 22:45 |
| DarkEra | ok, i'll check it anyway. brb | 22:45 |
| zequence | Gnome Shell is normally very fast, but it does require a system that is not much older than 5 years to be comfortable | 22:46 |
| len-1304 | sudo apt-get remove ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome only removes the meta... not all the stuff it dragged in. | 22:47 |
| zequence | That is usually the case :) | 22:47 |
| len-1304 | Oh well, this is an upgrade to 13.11 from 13.04. I should really do a clean install anyway. | 22:48 |
| len-1304 | An LDE meta would probably be a better one for this machine. | 22:48 |
| zequence | Yeah, I used it for a P4 not long ago | 22:49 |
| zequence | Worked fine, only, one core was not fun | 22:49 |
| DarkEra | there's still a Gnome Classic to choose from | 22:49 |
| zequence | DarkEra: This is a Saucy install? | 22:50 |
| DarkEra | uhm... no, 13.04 with gnome 3.8 | 22:50 |
| DarkEra | didn't think about that, sorry | 22:51 |
| DarkEra | i'm going to revert and try a new install with lightdm too | 22:51 |
| zequence | At this moment, we don't really know how much our meta differs from Ubuntu Gnome. I guess one could compare the dependency lists if nothing else | 22:52 |
| zequence | I forgot to take a snapshot again | 22:52 |
| zequence | Lucky my internet and machine are not lousy | 22:52 |
| DarkEra | again? :P | 22:52 |
| zequence | DarkEra: It works | 22:53 |
| DarkEra | \o/ | 22:54 |
| len-1304 | how is the audio? | 22:54 |
| zequence | DarkEra: I also need to "Disable Mouse Integration" in the "Machine" meny of the virtual OS gui window | 22:54 |
| zequence | audio is not great on virtual machines | 22:55 |
| DarkEra | zequence, is that the reinstall with lightdm? | 22:55 |
| zequence | DarkEra: You might not need to do that | 22:55 |
| len-1304 | zequence, you already use gnome on your main machine so I would guess audio is not an issue | 22:55 |
| zequence | len-1304: No, it's actually not much worse than on XFCE with desktop effects enabled, as is the default configuration | 22:55 |
| len-1304 | I have had too many complaints about audio on unity to trust it. | 22:56 |
| len-1304 | In all cases when the user went from unity to xfce the problem went away | 22:56 |
| len-1304 | but I would guess that if enough of the effects were turned off on unity that would work too | 22:57 |
| zequence | Unity was default.. | 22:57 |
| zequence | It also installed some XCFE stuff | 22:58 |
| zequence | Both ubuntustudio and XFCE are avilable for login, but they are broken (missing a lot of packages) | 22:58 |
| len-1304 | might be upgrades? | 22:58 |
| zequence | Probably something I've done wrong in seeds | 22:58 |
| zequence | This was ubuntu-minimal from the start | 22:58 |
| zequence | There was no DE before | 22:59 |
| len-1304 | Ok, I started with US 13.11 | 22:59 |
| zequence | gnome-shell seems to work | 22:59 |
| zequence | Well, froze up just now | 23:00 |
| DarkEra | now i forgot to take i snapshot of after the install and reverted back... lol... what a night. Reinstalling the package | 23:01 |
| len-1304 | seems to me I had better success just adding gnome shell last time. | 23:01 |
| len-1304 | But things have changed since | 23:02 |
| zequence | This virtual install doesn't seem great. Some things work really poorly on VB | 23:03 |
| zequence | Ah, video memory probably | 23:03 |
| zequence | nope, it just freezes anyway | 23:05 |
| zequence | Well, it's a start | 23:05 |
| DarkEra | we'll get there :) | 23:06 |
| zequence | Now it's just a matter of setting up a system for developing desktop metas, and that means also our default XFCE desktop, which might need some updating (and len has done a good job on that for sure) | 23:06 |
| zequence | I'm still not fully understanding how seeds work. It's a little bit confusing | 23:07 |
| len-1304 | We will have to watch what happens when the new xfce drops... | 23:07 |
| DarkEra | when is it to be expected? | 23:10 |
| len-1304 | The problem with seeds seems to be they default to pull in recommends and suggests | 23:11 |
| len-1304 | If there is something you don't want it needs to blacklisted. | 23:12 |
| zequence | not suggests though? | 23:13 |
| len-1304 | IDK | 23:13 |
| zequence | Ubuntu Gnome is still fairly new, so I guess they still need to polish their setup too | 23:14 |
| zequence | It's depending a lot on the Unity setup right now | 23:14 |
| len-1304 | The big problem is that a meta has all the subpackage deps to worry about. | 23:14 |
| len-1304 | unity is going to go through big changes up to 14.04 | 23:15 |
| len-1304 | sounds like anyway. | 23:15 |
| zequence | xorg won't disappear by then, and once Canonical stops supporting it, either the Ubuntu community will do it, or my guess it'll be imported from Debian | 23:16 |
| zequence | In either case, it'll continue to be there | 23:16 |
| len-1304 | I expect so | 23:16 |
| len-1304 | What I was hinting at is that studio may not work with unity as a desktop. | 23:16 |
| zequence | Why not? | 23:17 |
| len-1304 | There are some of our apps that rely directly on x | 23:17 |
| zequence | So, what you are saying is that some applications won't work on Unity+ MIR | 23:17 |
| len-1304 | Some of the apps people will want to install too | 23:17 |
| len-1304 | That is my guess. There is supposed to be an X compat lib... | 23:18 |
| len-1304 | but that will only work as well as the MIR devs feel like supporting. | 23:18 |
| zequence | Wonder what Valve will be using for their Steam console. I don't think it'll be MIR | 23:18 |
| zequence | The community can support MIR too, if they want | 23:19 |
| len-1304 | No one wants to only be usable in one distro of unix | 23:19 |
| len-1304 | *linux | 23:19 |
| zequence | Right now it seems most non Unity devs want to give Wayland a go as planned first | 23:19 |
| len-1304 | yes. Once there is a good x/wayland meta to bounce off I don't know if there will be much community support/time/development left for MIR | 23:20 |
| len-1304 | Mir would have to look like it had some advantage. | 23:21 |
| len-1304 | Pretty hard to say about alpha SW | 23:22 |
| zequence | Valve will want top grade video drivers | 23:23 |
| len-1304 | Ya with games you have to be as good or better than windows... | 23:23 |
| zequence | MIR I think will rely mostly on free drivers, and there was talk about integrating Android drivers | 23:24 |
| zequence | Wayland, I don't know how that works. I forget | 23:24 |
| len-1304 | no one will pay for a game that runs slower than what they already have. | 23:24 |
| zequence | A lot of the main stream users will like to have nice graphics | 23:24 |
| len-1304 | wayland is an extension/upgrade of X... it gets rid of some of the least used parts of the lib and adds the things that have been missing. | 23:25 |
| len-1304 | It adds those non-used X calls back as a compatibility layer. | 23:26 |
| zequence | Valve will probably not need much anyway, as long as they get driver support | 23:27 |
| len-1304 | It is a total redesign of X. Sort of a "if could start all over without worrying about supporting anyting out there now" kind of thing. | 23:27 |
| len-1304 | It still seems to support server client stuff... like the app on one machine and the display on another | 23:29 |
| len-1304 | I am not sure MIR does that. | 23:29 |
| len-1304 | I did some reading on both of them a while back | 23:31 |
| len-1304 | Unity seems to take away many of the things that I have enjoyed about linux. | 23:35 |
| DarkEra | still no chance to log in | 23:53 |
| zequence | DarkEra: You need to set both keyboard and mouse as I explained earlier | 23:53 |
| zequence | kayboard is set from the main gui preferences, the mouse from the OS gui menu | 23:54 |
| DarkEra | zequence, i did that | 23:54 |
| zequence | Then I don't know :( | 23:55 |
| zequence | Might be best to install on a testing partition, and I'll need to set up a system for rolling back stuff | 23:56 |
| zequence | So, one doesn't need to install the OS over and over, just the meta | 23:56 |
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