[00:07] brb === JTa is now known as JTa_aFK === saidinesh is now known as saidinesh5 === jussi01 is now known as jussi [11:07] hi smartboyhw [11:07] i'll be back later, need to sort some important things first and go for a daily walk [15:32] zequence, do you have the credential for our twitter account, please ? [21:10] DarkEra: The meta is built. haven't tried it myself yet [21:11] Should basically install a gnome desktop system [21:11] I mean, the ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome package in ppa:zequence/testing [21:11] I will move it to another PPA later, but at least it seems to work [21:12] zequence, you read minds? i just wanted to highlight you and ask how to proceed :) [21:13] i'm going to fire up VB now, can i still add your testing ppa then? [21:15] DarkEra: Sure. But, before you install anything, let's make a snapshot of the netinstall first. I'll have a look too [21:16] zequence, i took a snapshot of it last night so all is set [21:16] DarkEra: Ok, so just login, and then: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:zequence/testing [21:17] There's only one package there for saucy right now [21:17] Or, one source package that is [21:17] Which includes all of our meta packages [21:17] Then: sudo apt-get update === JTa_ is now known as JTa [21:17] finally: sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome [21:18] ok, working on it now [21:21] zequence, it says it didn't find the add-apt-repository command [21:22] DarkEra: Ok, must be in some package. let me look [21:22] ok [21:24] DarkEra: Try installing software-properties-common [21:24] Should not depend on any gui stuff, only a few libraries [21:27] that did it, going to update and install the package [21:30] ok, it's installing [21:45] I'm installing too right now [21:45] Forgot to take a snapshot :P [21:45] Will have to reinstall all over again [21:46] oops [21:49] hmm, since from what I understand, Lubuntu doesn't include pulseaudio, a ubuntustudio-desktop-lxde might be interesting to some folks only for that reason [21:49] Besides, it would also be the most efficient on older machines [21:50] We'll need some kind of procedure for maintaining these desktops, so that we don't fall behind, and that we don't inlcude stuff we don't need [21:52] if it's light enough yes, i tried lubuntu once for fun last year but found it using a bit more RAM compared to Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio 12.04 [21:52] yep, agreed [21:55] I really doubt it uses more RAM [21:55] but, browsers use a lot of it [21:56] It should be the one using least resources as is [21:57] cool, my patch to pulseaudio-1.1 worked [21:58] zequence, what kind of patch? [21:58] jack/PA issues should be fixed in Quantal and Precise within the month [21:58] indeed, browser use a lot of ram. We could give it a try and i'm sure people ask about a LXDE version in time. That was the case with Dream Studio too [21:58] * len-1304 is installing zequence's gnome meta.. [21:58] len-1304: a patch made of the upstream commits that fixes the reserve card issue [21:59] Good ! [21:59] len-1304, cool :) [22:00] My install worked fine, but mouse and keyboard aren't working [22:02] Had to disable mouse integration [22:02] still busy installing :P [22:02] That means, the Virtual system captures your mouse, and you need to use the right Ctrl key to uncapture it [22:03] I shouldn't have that problem then. [22:03] Well, now the mouse moves, but that's all.. [22:04] Um, why do we have GDM? Will gnome not work with lightdm? [22:04] You can choose between the two [22:04] The Gnome GDM has gone through some pretty big changes [22:04] I left lightdm as default. [22:04] Or, GDM [22:05] i'll keep my grey hair crossed and hope that after the install everything works as should [22:05] I can change it after install anyway I would guess [22:06] Doesn't really matter which you use [22:06] Unless you really want one over the other [22:06] zequence, I would suggest in this case, choosing one DM as default and not installing one for each DE. [22:06] Well, one should probably not install more than one DE, but that is up to the user [22:07] The gnome meta installs gdm, but gives the user the choice of which is default. [22:08] The set of packages is not big, but it sure has a lot of packages. [22:10] i noticed this afternoon that gnome also pulls in unity by the way. On my ubuntu Gnome partition i can choose in session from the login screen. So we have 2 DE's already [22:10] That may not happen when MIR hits. [22:13] Ya there is an app called unity here. [22:14] It would be good to find out if that is a depends or recommends [22:17] right, nothing is responding. so can't log in [22:17] Must be something about the graphics [22:18] mouse moves and that's it [22:18] hmmm [22:19] or xorg [22:19] Well xfce comes back ok... try gnome next. [22:20] But 4000 xruns doing nothing already... [22:21] At -p 128 which on this machine is normally clean [22:22] Failed to execute default terminal emulator [22:23] xfce terminal doesn't run. [22:23] len-1304: Are you on lowlatency? [22:25] I'm looking for a terminal that will run... [22:25] len-1304: Ctrl+Alt+F1 [22:27] DarkEra: I might have found a solution [22:27] ok, shoot :) [22:27] DarkEra: In the main VirtualBox Gui: File - > Preferences -> Input [22:27] disable auto capture keyboard [22:28] I'm currently reinstalling myself [22:28] Ya I figgured that. It is generic. [22:28] I didn't have that before. [22:28] len-1304: So, maybe the desktop meta pulled it in [22:28] But that shouldn't stop the terminla from running [22:29] no, it shouldn't [22:29] I'll go try a gnome login now. [22:30] zequence, ok looking into it [22:31] nope, nothing [22:33] un [22:33] ity [22:33] is [22:33] ve [22:33] ry slo [22:33] w [22:33] hahaha [22:33] But it runs. The gnome session fails to start. [22:35] The application start buttons on the left are so slow it seems like they do nothing. [22:37] Ah, xterm works. [22:39] What I've done is I've copied the desktop seed file from Ubuntu Gnome, without going too much in detail other than renaming ubuntu-gnome-desktop to ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome where ever it was required [22:39] So, it's not exactly well thought through so far [22:40] Status so far is that it gets me a very, very slow unity and no gnome. [22:40] Back in studio (xfce) I now have two audio controls in systray. [22:41] len-1304: is this the machine with the very old graphic card? [22:41] Older.... I have an s3 if you would like to try that ;) [22:41] Its even older [22:42] Ya this is the old nvidia [22:42] Is there a gnome classic still? [22:42] Not on the lightdm menu. [22:43] Could be a problem with no graphic card support. I'll probably need to install this on my machine [22:43] unity is spending so much time on fading windows in and other non-useful stuff it hardly runs [22:43] I'm trying lighgdm this time [22:43] zequence, want me to look on my ubuntu gnome install and check that? [22:44] DarkEra: If you like. But, our meta should (in theory) have what Ubuntu Gnome has (at least for saucy) [22:45] right [22:45] ok, i'll check it anyway. brb [22:46] Gnome Shell is normally very fast, but it does require a system that is not much older than 5 years to be comfortable [22:47] sudo apt-get remove ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome only removes the meta... not all the stuff it dragged in. [22:47] That is usually the case :) [22:48] Oh well, this is an upgrade to 13.11 from 13.04. I should really do a clean install anyway. [22:48] An LDE meta would probably be a better one for this machine. [22:49] Yeah, I used it for a P4 not long ago [22:49] Worked fine, only, one core was not fun [22:49] there's still a Gnome Classic to choose from [22:50] DarkEra: This is a Saucy install? [22:50] uhm... no, 13.04 with gnome 3.8 [22:51] didn't think about that, sorry [22:51] i'm going to revert and try a new install with lightdm too [22:52] At this moment, we don't really know how much our meta differs from Ubuntu Gnome. I guess one could compare the dependency lists if nothing else [22:52] I forgot to take a snapshot again [22:52] Lucky my internet and machine are not lousy [22:52] again? :P [22:53] DarkEra: It works [22:54] \o/ [22:54] how is the audio? [22:54] DarkEra: I also need to "Disable Mouse Integration" in the "Machine" meny of the virtual OS gui window [22:55] audio is not great on virtual machines [22:55] zequence, is that the reinstall with lightdm? [22:55] DarkEra: You might not need to do that [22:55] zequence, you already use gnome on your main machine so I would guess audio is not an issue [22:55] len-1304: No, it's actually not much worse than on XFCE with desktop effects enabled, as is the default configuration [22:56] I have had too many complaints about audio on unity to trust it. [22:56] In all cases when the user went from unity to xfce the problem went away [22:57] but I would guess that if enough of the effects were turned off on unity that would work too [22:57] Unity was default.. [22:58] It also installed some XCFE stuff [22:58] Both ubuntustudio and XFCE are avilable for login, but they are broken (missing a lot of packages) [22:58] might be upgrades? [22:58] Probably something I've done wrong in seeds [22:58] This was ubuntu-minimal from the start [22:59] There was no DE before [22:59] Ok, I started with US 13.11 [22:59] gnome-shell seems to work [23:00] Well, froze up just now [23:01] now i forgot to take i snapshot of after the install and reverted back... lol... what a night. Reinstalling the package [23:01] seems to me I had better success just adding gnome shell last time. [23:02] But things have changed since [23:03] This virtual install doesn't seem great. Some things work really poorly on VB [23:03] Ah, video memory probably [23:05] nope, it just freezes anyway [23:05] Well, it's a start [23:06] we'll get there :) [23:06] Now it's just a matter of setting up a system for developing desktop metas, and that means also our default XFCE desktop, which might need some updating (and len has done a good job on that for sure) [23:07] I'm still not fully understanding how seeds work. It's a little bit confusing [23:07] We will have to watch what happens when the new xfce drops... [23:10] when is it to be expected? [23:11] The problem with seeds seems to be they default to pull in recommends and suggests [23:12] If there is something you don't want it needs to blacklisted. [23:13] not suggests though? [23:13] IDK [23:14] Ubuntu Gnome is still fairly new, so I guess they still need to polish their setup too [23:14] It's depending a lot on the Unity setup right now [23:14] The big problem is that a meta has all the subpackage deps to worry about. [23:15] unity is going to go through big changes up to 14.04 [23:15] sounds like anyway. [23:16] xorg won't disappear by then, and once Canonical stops supporting it, either the Ubuntu community will do it, or my guess it'll be imported from Debian [23:16] In either case, it'll continue to be there [23:16] I expect so [23:16] What I was hinting at is that studio may not work with unity as a desktop. [23:17] Why not? [23:17] There are some of our apps that rely directly on x [23:17] So, what you are saying is that some applications won't work on Unity+ MIR [23:17] Some of the apps people will want to install too [23:18] That is my guess. There is supposed to be an X compat lib... [23:18] but that will only work as well as the MIR devs feel like supporting. [23:18] Wonder what Valve will be using for their Steam console. I don't think it'll be MIR [23:19] The community can support MIR too, if they want [23:19] No one wants to only be usable in one distro of unix [23:19] *linux [23:19] Right now it seems most non Unity devs want to give Wayland a go as planned first [23:20] yes. Once there is a good x/wayland meta to bounce off I don't know if there will be much community support/time/development left for MIR [23:21] Mir would have to look like it had some advantage. [23:22] Pretty hard to say about alpha SW [23:23] Valve will want top grade video drivers [23:23] Ya with games you have to be as good or better than windows... [23:24] MIR I think will rely mostly on free drivers, and there was talk about integrating Android drivers [23:24] Wayland, I don't know how that works. I forget [23:24] no one will pay for a game that runs slower than what they already have. [23:24] A lot of the main stream users will like to have nice graphics [23:25] wayland is an extension/upgrade of X... it gets rid of some of the least used parts of the lib and adds the things that have been missing. [23:26] It adds those non-used X calls back as a compatibility layer. [23:27] Valve will probably not need much anyway, as long as they get driver support [23:27] It is a total redesign of X. Sort of a "if could start all over without worrying about supporting anyting out there now" kind of thing. [23:29] It still seems to support server client stuff... like the app on one machine and the display on another [23:29] I am not sure MIR does that. [23:31] I did some reading on both of them a while back [23:35] Unity seems to take away many of the things that I have enjoyed about linux. [23:53] still no chance to log in [23:53] DarkEra: You need to set both keyboard and mouse as I explained earlier [23:54] kayboard is set from the main gui preferences, the mouse from the OS gui menu [23:54] zequence, i did that [23:55] Then I don't know :( [23:56] Might be best to install on a testing partition, and I'll need to set up a system for rolling back stuff [23:56] So, one doesn't need to install the OS over and over, just the meta