[02:37] <smartboyhw> Good morning.
[02:42] <ahoneybun> good afternoon
[02:59] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1181053] package kdm 4:4.10.2-0ubuntu2.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed pre-remova... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1181053 (by nilton rosao)
[04:10] <ScottK> apachelogger: Once you find my kdepim-runtime patch again, it might be a good idea to have a look at  bug 982889 and fix up kdm for those that still use it.
[06:02] <soee> good morning
[06:08] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1181083] "delete" mini-button in text boxes covers right-to-left text @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1181083 (by Ibrahim M. Ghazal)
[11:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:49] <soee> hi Blizzz 
[11:49] <soee> BluesKaj, 
[11:50] <BluesKaj> Hi soee
[14:41] <markey> Riddell: "<strohel> Anyone with contact to KUbuntu packagers please tell them they are applying already applied patch to 2.7.1: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/amarok/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_qtwebkit_crash.diff"
[14:41] <markey> 2.7.1 already has the anti-crash fix
[16:06] <palasso> JontheEchidna, I added a proposed patch for this: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314549 I think it might fix the issue (perhaps it'd need a change or two). Plz take a look at it. thnx ;)
[16:07] <JontheEchidna> palasso: thanks. Some more severe bugs popped up right before release so I ran out of time to get to that one
[16:08] <palasso> np I hope it'll make it for 13.10. I hope my proposed patch works out and saves you time to work on other things ;)
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> :)
[16:09] <shadeslayer> palasso: I don't see a patch there :P
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674464/
[16:10] <palasso> shadeslayer, there is an attachment I added. It's backend.cpp with the changed I propose
[16:10] <palasso> *changes
[16:10] <shadeslayer> palasso: it's better to post patches instead of whole files
[16:10] <shadeslayer> plus, maybe propose it on RB
[16:11] <palasso> Ohhh sorry. I didn't know how to do this. It's my first time :(
[16:11] <JontheEchidna> nah it's fine for a small patch, I'll just take a look at it right now.
[16:11] <shadeslayer> ^^
[16:11] <palasso> shadeslayer, what is RB?
[16:11] <shadeslayer> palasso: when you post a file, developers don't know what's changed
[16:12] <shadeslayer> so you just post a list of your changes instead of the whole file :)
[16:12] <shadeslayer> palasso: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/
[16:12] <JontheEchidna> palasso: did you try compiling this? It doesn't work here
[16:12] <palasso> I see... I just thought that everyone uses a diff tool for patches to see the differences :D
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> palasso: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674476/
[16:13] <palasso> JontheEchidna, no I haven't set up a compiler :( I tried to proofread it manually
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> palasso: ah, ok. I'll take a look at it and see if I can fix it
[16:14] <palasso> JontheEchidna, it needs the fix I thought it'd need
[16:14] <palasso> check out the comment I wrote
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> yeah it should be something minor like that
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> oh, ParseQuoteWord wants a reference to a pointer
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> palasso: all I had to do: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5674532/
[16:29] <palasso> I see
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> palasso: seems to work :)
[16:29] <palasso> Nice ;)
[16:30] <palasso> shadeslayer, just created a KDE Identity https://identity.kde.org/index.php?r=people/view&uid=vpalassopoulos ;)
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> I tried with both a muon and synaptic generated file
[16:30] <shadeslayer> awesome :)
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> palasso: http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=libqapt.git&a=commit&h=4ae0602d0f81f48f58395966a8bce8e57226cb8e
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> thanks again!
[16:36] <palasso> np yw and thnx for the software JontheEchidna :)
[17:53] <lordievader> Good evening.
[18:53] <soee> hiho
[18:54] <ahoneybun> soee: hi
[19:15] <jdoles> Since you are supposedly the developers of Kubuntu, one of you should be able to tell me (or better: give me the commands) how to correctly setup Pulse Audio in a way that works. In particular the part where I don't get just a dummy device.
[19:16] <jdoles> Googling for dummy device kde returns a lot of random and wrong suggestions (like adding a user to the audio group).
[19:17] <jdoles> Since you designed the system, I kindly ask one of you to document how it is supposed to work including preconditions for all files, etc.
[19:17] <ahoneybun> jdoles: you are troubleshooting a audio device?
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: I don't understand the question.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: there is nothing wrong with the audio device.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: it is the software.
[19:18] <ScottK> jdoles: This isn't a support channel.
[19:18] <jdoles> ahoneybun: or the configuration.
[19:18] <jdoles> ScottK: this isn't support.
[19:18] <ScottK> FWIW, for me it just works.
[19:18] <jdoles> ScottK: I want to know how you designed it.
[19:18] <ScottK> It most certainly is.
[19:18] <ScottK> We didn't design it.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: yes, you did.
[19:19] <ScottK> We ship it the way upstream KDE did it.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: wrong.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu also includes a configuration for Pulse Audio.
[19:19] <ScottK> OK, so me where it's different?
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: Pulse Audio can be configured in three ways according to Freedesktop.org.
[19:19] <ScottK> Which isn't kde.org.
[19:19] <jdoles> ScottK: even ignoring that third party documentation.
[19:19] <ScottK> So that's irrelevnat.
[19:20] <jdoles> ScottK: are you saying I should ask the Ubuntu developers?
[19:20] <ScottK> No.
[19:20] <ahoneybun> ScottK: I need help with testing a xml file to make a docbook
[19:20] <jdoles> ScottK: someone needs to tell me how Pulse Audio is supposed to work.
[19:20] <ScottK> jdoles: No.  No one NEEDS to.
[19:21] <ScottK> ahoneybun: I'm not the best person for that.
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: you might want to change that slogan.
[19:21] <ahoneybun> ScottK: ok thanks
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: Kubuntu -- We don't know what we are doing and we are sure as hell are not going to help you.
[19:21] <jdoles> ScottK: better?
[19:21] <ScottK> jdoles: This is friendly for me and frankly more friendly than you attitude deserves.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: my attitude?
[19:22] <ScottK> Yep.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: you are basically giving me the finger.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: and then it is my attitude.
[19:22] <ScottK> No, you aren't reading what I'm writing.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: you distribute Kubuntu, which is a complete operating system.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: I ask a simple question about which Pulse Audio configuration is the correct one.
[19:22] <jdoles> ScottK: this is basic information.
[19:23] <ScottK> Right and you want configuration help.  This isn't the channel for that.
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: NO
[19:23] <palasso> If someone reads todays chatlog of #kubuntu will know that jdoles has an awful attitude towards other ppl and keeps complaining all the time
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: I want to know how you designed it.
[19:23] <ahoneybun> jdoles: we take parts from upstream and configure it
[19:23] <jdoles> palasso: keeps complaining?
[19:23] <ScottK> jdoles: Then look at the code.
[19:23] <ahoneybun> well the devels
[19:23] <ahoneybun> devs
[19:23] <jdoles> ScottK: the code doesn't tell anyone that.
[19:24] <jdoles> ScottK: there is a difference between how it is intended and what it actually does.
[19:24] <yofel> you... could install another copy in a VM and check what the default configuration is?
[19:24] <yofel> most of us don't touch pulseaudio at all
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: no, I can't.
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: because a VM would require a working sound system.
[19:24] <jdoles> yofel: which... I don't.
[19:25] <jdoles> have
[19:25] <jdoles> Can all of you smart asses say something useful and cooperative for a change?
[19:25] <ahoneybun> jdoles: by joining this room you are agreeing to use proper language
[19:25] <ScottK> Right, because insults encourage me to stop doing $work and focus on your needs.
[19:25] <jdoles> You are saying you supposedly develop this, but you cannot say how the audio system is supposed to be setup.
[19:25] <yofel> it's hard to tell you something I don't know...
[19:26] <jdoles> yofel: now, that's a valid excuse.
[19:26] <jdoles> yofel: ScottK however is saying that it is not the task for this channel to be able to point at a resource which documents how Kubuntu Pulse Audio has been designed.
[19:26] <jdoles> That is wrong.
[19:26] <ScottK> jdoles: I already told you, we follow KDE in this, so it's a standard KDE setup.  There's no such thing as  Kubuntu pulse audio design.
[19:27] <jdoles> ScottK: you are distributing an OS.
[19:27] <ScottK> I already said this like three times.
[19:27] <jdoles> ScottK: KDE is not an OS.
[19:27] <yofel> kubuntu pulseaudio? We use whatever the default KDE configuration of phonon, and ubuntu's default configuration of pulseaudio is
[19:27] <jdoles> yofel: and yet Kubuntu is noth supported by Ubuntu or Canonical.
[19:27] <jdoles> Hence, you cannot just say "we have got nothing to do with this".
[19:28] <jdoles> KDE people say that my distro is broken.
[19:28] <jdoles> My distro being what you created.
[19:28] <ScottK> jdoles: Where did they say this.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: this afternoon.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: in #kde.
[19:28] <jdoles> ScottK: it is a popular opinion that Kubuntu is a broken KDE distribution.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: so, perhaps you might want to fix that at the same time.
[19:29] <jdoles> ahoneybun: there is nothing wrong with my language.
[19:29] <ScottK> Which is deeply ironic since we're probably the least patched KDE distro out there.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: no, it is not.
[19:29] <ScottK> I'm done.  Have a nice life.
[19:29] <jdoles> ScottK: they just think that you are really bad at the system portions of it.
[19:30] <claydoh> it is a popular opinion that opinions on an irc channel are a dimea dozen
[19:30] <ahoneybun> jdoles: cursing is not proper in this room or any IRC room
[19:30] <jdoles> ahoneybun: I did not curse.
[19:30] <jdoles> ahoneybun: and can't you say anything useful?
[19:30] <jdoles> claydoh: and please think of your own sentences.
[19:31] <jdoles> Are you sure you are developers?
[19:31] <shadeslayer> jdoles: just to make this abundantly clear, we do not mess with the PA bits
[19:31] <claydoh> I did, I just readmy #kubuntu backlog
[19:31] <jdoles> It sounds more like you are a bunch of wannabes.
[19:31] <jdoles> shadeslayer: and I am sure the Ubuntu and KDE people could not care less.
[19:31] <palasso> jdoles, if you want sth useful let me tell you that support is done in #kubuntu This channel is for development!
[19:31] <shadeslayer> the base OS is the same as Ubuntu, Xubuntu, whatever
[19:32] <ahoneybun> I'm not a developer, I just try to help.
[19:32] <jdoles> shadeslayer: so, show me the documentation for Pulse Audio for my system version which says how it is supposed to be setup.
[19:32] <jdoles> shadeslayer: if there is no documentation, it is impossible to debug.
[19:32] <claydoh> jdoles spent some time harrasing #kubuntu already, palasso
[19:32] <jdoles> claydoh: you call is harassing.
[19:33] <jdoles> claydoh: I call it discovering that nobody there has any idea of the state of the world.
[19:33] <palasso> claydoh, I'm sorry... I guess it's time for this channel now :D
[19:33] <yofel> jdoles: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User? Note that we do NOT run it as a system daemon
[19:33] <claydoh> yes, you were being unreasonable with those who were attemting to help
[19:33] <shadeslayer> jdoles: you're asking the wrong person, since I do not work in that area
[19:33] <jdoles> shadeslayer: then why are you so unwise to interfere?
[19:34] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it sounds like a waste of my time to talk to me about things you don't know.
[19:34] <jdoles> claydoh: I was the only one being reasonable.
[19:34] <shadeslayer> sigh, I'm not interfering, I'm just trying to make it clear that we know very little about PA since most of us do not work in that area
[19:34] <shadeslayer> and for most of us, everything just works
[19:34] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it was becoming clear already that you are not organized to create an operating system.
[19:35] <claydoh> jdoles: sure, you were:(
[19:35] <shadeslayer> ...
[19:35] <jdoles> shadeslayer: this is not a personal attack.
[19:35] <palasso> I think that jdoles is purposefully trolling......
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: I think you should learn to read.
[19:35] <shadeslayer> jdoles: what else would you call it
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: my audio does not work.
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: I want it fixed.
[19:35] <jdoles> palasso: fix it or help me, and I can help myself.
[19:36] <jdoles> palasso: yet, all you do is trolling.
[19:36] <claydoh> palasso: I disagree,somewhatbut the actions are there
[19:36] <jdoles> shadeslayer: an assessment
[19:36] <jdoles> shadeslayer: it's just something you take personally, which you shouldn't.
[19:36] <jdoles> Perhaps everyone who can help works at Google and has an IQ over 150.
[19:37] <shadeslayer> :/
[19:37] <jdoles> You shouldn't have any hard feelings about that.
[19:37] <yofel> telling people that try to help you that they don't know what they're doing is not particulary motivating, you know...
[19:38] <jdoles> yofel: it isn't meant to be motivating.
[19:38] <yofel> being asked one and the same question by different people is annoying, sure
[19:38] <yofel> but not all people were in the channel last time you were asked or didn't read/notice it
[19:38] <jdoles> yofel: not only the same question, but depending on the audience dumb questions too.
[19:39] <claydoh> jdoles:  then why would one treat volunteersthis way
[19:39] <ahoneybun> shadeslayer: can you help with buildign a test package for the docbook?
[19:39] <jdoles> yofel: meaning questions that anyone with an understanding of the domain would not ask.
[19:39] <maco> hey so guess what there are like 2 people in all of Ubuntu who know how to fix audio drivers
[19:39] <maco> One of them is currently deployed in Iraq
[19:39] <yofel> so? what do you expect? a set of highly trained IT professionals in a community support channel?
[19:39] <shadeslayer> ahoneybun: gah, docbook, /me runs away
[19:39] <jdoles> claydoh: just because you are a volunteer does not mean you can do a bad job.
[19:39] <ahoneybun> lol
[19:39] <yofel> some people are that, but not everyone knows everything
[19:39] <shadeslayer> I'm not touching that stuff ever again
[19:39] <jdoles> claydoh: in the real world, you can also get fired from being a volunteer.
[19:39] <claydoh> lol there you go
[19:39] <maco> So, maybe you can go visit him on a military base in Iraq and get some help
[19:39] <maco> but otherwise, just wait for his next shore leave
[19:40] <shadeslayer> or maybe you know, post a question in askubuntu, file a bug, or a post on the forums
[19:40] <ahoneybun> yofel: what about you?
[19:40] <lordievader> jdoles: Most of the people in the support channels are just home-users who want to give back to the community.
[19:40] <maco> he's one of the top  5 audio people for all of linux, really
[19:40] <shadeslayer> so many support options
[19:40] <jdoles> maco: this is not about audio drivers.
[19:40] <claydoh> jdoles: inthe real world,I would ask you to leave my store  and loose your business
[19:40] <maco> jdoles: the interaction of pulse and drivers is always lovely fun
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: it's about the infrastructure between generic drivers and pulse.
[19:41] <yofel> ahoneybun: I work in IT, but what I'm doing here is mostly learned by years of experience in volunteer work
[19:41] <maco> i used to know how some of that works, because i lived with that audio guy and he taught me stuff
[19:41] <maco> but i quit doing open source 2 years ago and life has been so much better since then
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: one of these things is whether it runs as a system user or not, which my research says that it doesn't in Kubuntu.
[19:41] <maco> pulse runs systemwide
[19:41] <jdoles> But I am sure there are other properties which make it not work.
[19:41] <maco> thats the case in ubuntu, kubuntu, whatever
[19:41] <shadeslayer> on an related Audio note, has anyone used an external DAC with *buntu?
[19:41] <ahoneybun> yofel: I got that branch set up btw
[19:41] <jdoles> maco: that's not what the freedesktop.org page said.
[19:42] <maco> hmm maybe i forgot then
[19:42] <jdoles> maco: the permissions are set up like case 2.
[19:42] <yofel> ahoneybun: ah, did you find out what went wrong?
[19:42]  * ahoneybun does not know what a DAC is
[19:42] <shadeslayer> jdoles: does /proc/asound/cards list your cards?
[19:42] <maco> my sound's worked since i fixed my driver in 2008 so i stopped caring
[19:42] <shadeslayer> ahoneybun: Digital to Audio Converter
[19:42] <ahoneybun> yofel: not sure but I got it
[19:42] <jdoles> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PerfectSetup
[19:42] <ahoneybun> oh ok
[19:42] <jdoles> See that
[19:42] <jdoles> shadeslayer: yes
[19:42] <yofel> well, that's good at least
[19:42] <shadeslayer> ^
[19:42] <jdoles> Yes, I can think of that myself too.
[19:43]  * maco goes back to not giving a squirrel's toe about people who expect others to fix code for them
[19:43] <shadeslayer> I am uncertain whether #pulseaudio does support
[19:43] <jdoles> I don't want to crush your little souls, but I am intelligent, but I cannot guess how you randomly setup things.
[19:43] <shadeslayer> but it's worth a shot
[19:43] <ahoneybun> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/kubuntu-docs/raring
[19:43] <jdoles> and I am intelligent*
[19:44]  * claydoh goes and cooks dinner, not a pleasant bit of catchup after a 16 hour day in the warehouse w/o ac
[19:45]  * ahoneybun needs help testing his exported xml files for the DocBook
[19:46] <maco> jdoles: look dude, this channel has 0 to do with pulse audio alright? it's ONLY about the kde desktop applications. it has JACK to do with the audio infrastructure, which is handled by an infrastructure team at Canonical
[19:46] <maco> by which i really mean by one person on that team
[19:46] <maco> who is very likely asleep right now, since he's in australia
[19:46] <jdoles> maco: what is his name?
[19:46] <maco> Luke
[19:47] <jdoles> Really? No, wonder it works so badly.
[19:47] <maco> audio has never, from what i can tell, been a true priority of canonical's
[19:47] <shadeslayer> just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it works badly
[19:47] <jdoles> The servers just need to keep on running.
[19:47] <shadeslayer> it works for numerous other people
[19:47] <maco> for that matter, when luke gets a chance to get a breather from audio, he works on accessibility, which has ALSO never been a true priority
[19:47] <jdoles> Ubuntu: Linux for servers :)
[19:48] <maco> accessibility in ubuntu is in an absolutely abysmal state
[19:48] <jdoles> Why did they ever market the desktop?
[19:48] <maco> but try getting priority shifted away from unity
[19:48] <jdoles> Or was that just a marketing technique?
[19:49] <maco> people were still using windows xp, 2000, and 98 back when that marketing started
[19:49] <maco> the bar was pretty crappy back then
[19:49] <jdoles> Windows XP audio never failed ;)
[19:49] <maco> well you needed to get a driver
[19:49] <jdoles> But yes it has many other "issues".
[19:49] <maco> but first you had to get online
[19:49] <maco> OH BUT WAIT
[19:50] <maco> you couldnt get online with windows xp because you needed to get online to download the driver to get online to download... hang on im reapeating myself
[19:50] <jdoles> You also needed to install RAID drivers from a floppy.
[19:50] <shadeslayer> ^^
[19:50] <shadeslayer> this is also going OT btw :P
[19:50] <jdoles> Yes, yes, it was terrible.
[19:50] <ScottK> When was it not OT.
[19:51] <lordievader> maco: Good times, getting wifi drivers without wifi available :)
[19:51] <maco> lordievader: wifi? who said wifi?
[19:51] <maco> lordievader: xp didnt support ETHERNET
[19:51] <lordievader> maco: For me it was allways the wifi :)
[19:51] <jdoles> I don't get one thing: if you don't want to be an OS and don't want to change KDE, then what do you want to do?
[19:51] <maco> ubuntu could at least use ethernet to get the wireless drivers
[19:51] <jdoles> It seems that the empty set of activities remains then,
[19:51] <claydoh> ScottK: do you guys have any use for my now-unused arm dev board,the imx-53?
[19:51] <jdoles> Or you could become source committers for the various kde projects.
[19:52] <maco> some of us have kde commit access
[19:52] <maco> i might still
[19:52] <jdoles> This is a reasonable suggestion, isn't it?
[19:52] <ScottK> claydoh: Not really.
[19:52] <maco> it's strongly encouraged in ubuntu-land to contribute upstream
[19:52] <claydoh> ScottK: or is it now a bit out of date?
[19:52] <maco> or was? i'm not sure it still is
[19:52] <claydoh> ok, 
[19:52] <jdoles> If you don't at all have the intention to support an OS with all the manpower that needs, why do it?
[19:52] <ScottK> claydoh: We don't have mx51/53 kernels in the archive.
[19:52] <maco> (what with this stupid app store idea that doesnt involve submitting to debian first anymore)
[19:53] <maco> jdoles: you know this ain't a support channel, right?
[19:53] <jdoles> Clearly you describe yourself as someone who doesn't want to do that.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: yes, but you aren't developing an OS either.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: you only want to develop the applications.
[19:53] <jdoles> maco: you don't need an OS for that.
[19:53] <ScottK> And I need to rebuild eglibc for raring/saucy to make a custom version that will work on my mx51 efikas.
[19:53] <maco> jdoles: sure i am, at my paid job, that has NOTHING to do with ubuntu or kubuntu except that many of us run it on our desktops :)
[19:53] <maco> as for this channel...
[19:53] <maco> the kubuntu team works with the ubuntu team to make the OS
[19:54] <maco> most support for *ubuntu (dont care if that's xubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu...whatever) happens on AskUbuntu, in #ubuntu, or on the Ubuntu Forums
[19:55] <lordievader> Or in their own support channels, like #kubuntu, #lubuntu, etc.
[19:55] <maco> you're asking questions about stuff that has nothing to do with kde, you can use the generic ones just fine
[19:55] <jdoles> maco: ScottK said earlier than I shouldn't ask Ubuntu about Kubuntu issues.
[19:56] <jdoles> maco: but I suppose I could install Unity to keep up appearances.
[19:56] <jdoles> maco: I also understand that all those systems are the same.
[20:42] <valorie> oh my goodness, just reading backlog
[20:43] <valorie> who has ops in this channel?
[20:43] <maco> valorie: Riddell, i think
[20:44] <Tm_T> I do
[20:44] <valorie> well, trolls should not be allowed to kill everyone's enthusiasm, IMO
[20:44] <Tm_T> too late
[20:44] <valorie> yeah
[20:45] <ahoneybun> I'm up to doing some work
[20:45] <valorie> let me just say to all the helpful people here without ops: I love you, and you create a wonderful system
[20:46] <valorie> and let's stop feeding trolls
[20:46] <ahoneybun> valorie: I exported the xml with community.kde.org
[20:47] <valorie> great!
[20:47] <valorie> so where did you set that up?
[20:47] <valorie> thanks Tm_T
[20:47] <yofel> Tm_T: thanks
[20:47] <ahoneybun> http://community.kde.org/Kubuntu-Docs/Raring
[20:48] <ahoneybun> Tm_T: thanks that was not nice to see
[20:48] <ahoneybun> yes I need to fix something I know
[20:48] <Tm_T> just ignore such rants
[20:48] <valorie> ahoneybun: did you talk to the www people before setting this up?
[20:48] <ahoneybun> um
[20:48] <valorie> Tm_T: good advice
[20:49] <ahoneybun> I was told to see how it worked
[20:49] <valorie> good reminder for everyone
[20:49] <valorie> ahoneybun: ?
[20:49] <ahoneybun> valorie: no I did not...
[20:50] <ahoneybun> my bad
[20:51] <valorie> imo it's worth talking to the experts
[20:51] <valorie> they are great people
[20:51] <ahoneybun> what for permission or advice on how to make it better?
[20:51] <ahoneybun> #kde-www?
[20:52] <valorie> yes
[20:52] <ahoneybun> for permission to post there?
[20:52] <valorie> not so much permission, as fitting in with the administration of the wiki
[20:52] <ahoneybun> advice then
[20:52] <valorie> now that you have a page, they can look at it
[20:53] <ahoneybun> yea
[20:53] <valorie> it's possible they'll move the page to fit into the organization scheme
[20:53] <ahoneybun> I just want to see if the xml file it shot out will work for what we need before I continue
[20:55] <valorie> cool
[20:55] <ahoneybun> I don't know how to do that
[20:55] <valorie> thanks again for all the work you've been doing on this
[20:55] <valorie> ah, they can tell you that as well
[20:55] <valorie> I've forgotten
[20:55] <valorie> since I didn't blog about it
[20:55] <valorie> lol
[20:56] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:57] <ahoneybun> what do I say
[20:57] <ahoneybun> like what am I trying to do 
[20:57] <ahoneybun> make a package?
[20:57] <shadeslayer> send me a sandwich
[20:57] <ahoneybun> ?
[20:58] <shadeslayer> nvm ...
[20:58] <ahoneybun> I get it 
[21:01] <valorie> :-)
[21:02] <ahoneybun> what am I doing, making a package?
[21:06] <ahoneybun> valorie: can you jump in and help explain 
[21:08] <Blizzz> since there is no news on the website, is kde 4.10.3 from ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa good to use (or test)?
[21:08] <ahoneybun> Blizzz: I know somethings from 4.10.3 are on the kubuntu-backports PPA for 12.04
[21:09] <Blizzz> i mean for 13.04
[21:09] <Blizzz> yofel: ^
[21:09] <ahoneybun> Blizzz: I'm just saying that the backports have some of it
[21:09] <ahoneybun> not sure about anything else
[21:10] <Blizzz> k
[21:19] <Riddell> valorie: hmm problems on channel?
[21:20] <valorie> yes, you read my email?
[21:20] <valorie> Tm_T: quieted our troll, but .....
[21:20] <ScottK> Sometimes it's hard to tell who's a troll and who needs education.
[21:20] <ScottK> (at least at first)
[21:21] <Riddell> valorie: I'm happy to give ops to any kubuntu member
[21:22] <valorie> ScottK: sure
[21:23] <valorie> getting ops on a *buntu channel is a bit of a pain
[21:23] <valorie> hopefully someone else steps up!
[21:23] <apachelogger> mh
[21:23] <Riddell> valorie: do you want ops?
[21:23] <yofel> Blizzz: it is usable, it's really only the news item that's missing
[21:24] <apachelogger> "one of you should be able to tell me (or better: give me the commands) how to correctly setup Pulse Audio in a way that works"
[21:24] <apachelogger> support
[21:24] <apachelogger> end of story
[21:24] <valorie> not today, but thank you for the trust, Riddell
[21:24] <apachelogger> valorie: if you get on the council you'll become op anyway :P
[21:24] <valorie> I'll reconsider if others don't step up
[21:24] <valorie> apachelogger: ha
[21:24] <apachelogger> it's not like we have a lack of ops in here
[21:25] <valorie> I did vote for myself, so I got at least one vote!
[21:25] <apachelogger> ^^
[21:25] <ScottK> In my case, I had a lack of knowing how to give myself +o.
[21:25] <valorie> if elected, I will take up ops, and make myself a cheat sheet
[21:25] <valorie> when crunch time comes, i can never remember the relevent commands either
[21:26] <shadeslayer> valorie: likewise :P
[21:26] <ScottK> 31 voters so far, so 1 is not an insignificant fraction of what it takes to win.
[21:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: msg ChanServ op #kubuntu-devel
[21:26] <shadeslayer> ScottK: 31? only? :O
[21:26] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Of 53.
[21:26] <shadeslayer> we only have 53 Kubuntu members?
[21:26] <ScottK> Yep.
[21:27] <apachelogger> "only"
[21:27] <apachelogger> quality > quantity
[21:27] <ScottK> We are elite.
[21:27] <shadeslayer> ^^
[21:27] <ScottK> Riddell himself says so.
[21:27] <apachelogger> and considering only 31 have voted so far I'll argue that quality needs evaluation ^^
[21:27] <shadeslayer> "Linux Mint 15 Most Ambitious Release Ever"
[21:27] <Blizzz> yofel: great, thank you for packaging :)
[21:27]  * shadeslayer falls of his chair
[21:28] <yofel> shadeslayer: I guess hoping for I hope in vain if I think of cleaned up packaging?
[21:28] <yofel> s/hope for//
[21:28] <kubotu> yofel: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[21:28] <shadeslayer> yofel: I don't think that's ever going to happen
[21:29] <shadeslayer> but hey, they had over a 1000 commits in Cinnamon and MATE
[21:29] <shadeslayer> http://ostatic.com/blog/linux-mint-15-most-ambitious-release-ever
[21:29] <yofel> bummer
[21:29] <ScottK> PyQt5 needs packaging if you want to make a clean start on something.
[21:29] <yofel> the last people that advertised commits were some folks that makes something called trinity
[21:30] <yofel> *make
[21:30] <ScottK> I've been slowly adding Kubuntu packaging to https://www.ohloh.net/p/kubuntu-packaging
[21:30] <shadeslayer> did you know that agateau's laptop is called trinity :P
[21:30] <ScottK> If you want to count commits ...
[21:30] <shadeslayer> ruby : 8%
[21:30] <shadeslayer> I bet that's all apachelogger's code
[21:30] <ScottK> Yeah.
[21:31] <yofel> oh, oloh stats, nice
[21:31] <ScottK> That or patches of crap upstream work.
[21:31] <ScottK> Not done yet.  Still adding packages.
[21:31] <shadeslayer> :)
[21:31] <shadeslayer> btw seems like Jessie A. Morris forgot to remove a patch from Amarok
[21:32] <shadeslayer> which is a bit odd that it didn't fail to apply
[21:32] <yofel> lol, I'm second place in commit count o.O
[21:32] <ScottK> Yeah, markey mentioned that earlier today.
[21:32] <shadeslayer> yeah, I'm a bit surprised that the patch didn't fail to apply
[21:33] <shadeslayer> yikes, my laptop is trying to kill me
[21:33] <shadeslayer> just like the dishwasher at Pinea
[21:33] <shadeslayer> *Pineda
[21:34] <yofel> the context is too ambigous
[21:34] <valorie> how is your laptop like a dishwasher?
[21:34] <shadeslayer> it's not, both tried to kill me by zapping me with current
[21:34] <yofel> it simply successfully applied right below the same code
[21:34] <jessie> shadeslayer: What? Which patch was this? Cause Riddell handled the patches.
[21:34] <shadeslayer> hah
[21:35] <yofel> shadeslayer, jessie: what happened: http://paste.kde.org/746000
[21:35] <shadeslayer> heh
[21:35] <yofel> context was just:
[21:35] <yofel> @@ -818,6 +818,20 @@
[21:35] <yofel>          }   
[21:35] <yofel>      }   
[21:35] <yofel>  
[21:35] <yofel> +    { // remove <audio> tags (can lead to crashes in QtWebKit)
[21:36] <jessie> yofel: Ah, yeah, I see that 12-24 and 26-38 are the same. Looks like that code got doubled.
[21:36] <shadeslayer> jessie: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/amarok/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_qtwebkit_crash.diff < needs removing
[21:36] <shadeslayer> also interesting is that it didn't fail to compile because tag is declared 2 times, different scopes?
[21:37] <yofel> why would it fail? the code has it's own scope thanks to the brackets
[21:37] <shadeslayer> yeah, that's what I just said
[21:37] <yofel> er, right
[21:38] <shadeslayer> except it was more of an "I /think/ that's why it failed"
[21:39] <shadeslayer> jessie: do you want to fix?
[21:39] <yofel> I kind of stopped reading at the colon...
[21:39] <shadeslayer> colon? there is no colon in that sentence :D
[21:40] <yofel> shows how tired I am, s/colon/comma/
[21:40] <jessie> shadeslayer: Probably not today. I'll likely be leaving for home here in about 30 minutes.
[21:41] <jessie> Sorry for breaking things on my first packaging. :-/
[21:42] <yofel> well, most of us wouldn't have noticed it either as it doesn't fail to apply
[21:43] <shadeslayer> ^^
[21:44] <shadeslayer> I'll fix it :)
[21:44] <shadeslayer> anyone want to upload libechonest and tomahawk?
[21:44] <jessie> shadeslayer: Thank you. My life has been a cluster lately, so I do appreciate you fixing my mess up.
[21:44] <shadeslayer> jessie: no problem :)
[21:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: because people refuse to speak sane languages
[21:56] <apachelogger> look at the changes to l10n-common :(
[21:56] <apachelogger> and that's bash
[22:03] <shadeslayer> all fixed and uploaded
[22:05] <valorie> thanks shadeslayer
[22:05] <shadeslayer> :)
[22:12] <jessie> shadeslayer: You rock, man.
[22:13] <shadeslayer> :)
[22:13] <jessie> So, question: Why the hell does Nepomuk file indexer always crash for me?
[22:15] <yofel> jessie: do you have a backtrace at hand?
[22:16] <jessie> yofel: No, it won't even start up though. Best way to get one? x-session errors?
[22:17] <yofel> hm, that would be the first place to look, yeah
[22:17] <jessie> http://pastie.org/7923143 There's some error data in there for sure.
[22:25] <yofel> those don't look related to nepomuk though...
[22:25] <jessie> yofel: Good point, those are bluetooth ones. Let me try to filter it a bit more
[22:27] <jessie> yofel: http://pastie.org/7923183 Looks like it never initializes?
[22:27] <yofel> o.O
[22:28] <yofel> vHanda: ^ ?
[22:28] <shadeslayer> probably not around 
[22:28] <jessie> I've removed .local/nepomuk and .config/nepomuk and .kde/share/[apps|config]/nepomuk
[22:28]  * yofel is clueless how that would happen
[22:28] <shadeslayer> unless he's at the office at 12 in the night :P
[22:28] <yofel> probably not ^^
[22:28] <jessie> I've cleared everything that is nepomuk related and then it runs for ages and then it dies and refuses to start up until I purge configs again.
[22:29] <jessie> I do have a very atypical setup that vHanda fixed once before.
[22:29] <jessie> My /home/jessie/ is on my SSD but things like ~/Music and ~/Documents and ~/... etc are on my HDD.
[22:29] <jessie> I have ~/Music set up as a symlink.
[22:30] <jessie> There once was an issue with infinite recursion happening because of the links I had set up with Wine.
[22:30] <jessie> But that was fixed.
[22:30] <yofel> that's not unusual, mine looks similiar at least 
[22:31] <jessie> Well, regardless, it makes me a sad panda cause email searching and such doesn't work very well without Nepomuk.
[22:32] <valorie> it's good to hear someone *wanting* nepomuk for a change
[22:32] <valorie> thank you vHanda!
[22:33] <jessie> Oh, I love nepomuk when it works. But it seems to crash on me. :-(
[22:37] <ahoneybun> jessie: same here
[22:38] <jessie> ahoneybun: It does awesome things like lets me find docs from krunner and stuff.
[22:38] <ahoneybun> yea its cool
[22:38] <ahoneybun> when it works
[22:39] <jessie> Well, I gotta bounce. My wedding reception is tomorrow, so business abounds.
[22:39] <jessie> When is vHanda usually on?
[23:47] <valorie> guys, it's been great
[23:47]  * valorie is off for about 4 hours