=== tumbleweed_ is now known as tumbleweed === Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za === Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za === Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za === Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za === Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za [04:48] morning [05:58] hi magespawn_ and all you other lurkers [06:03] yo oom === trender is now known as skaaaaaaap [06:04] yooo ooom [06:04] lol [06:04] kom kry man ek hol weg [06:05] i fixed the box 100% [06:05] good [06:05] spent most night doing it man [06:05] had to learn linux [06:05] :( === skaaaaaaap is now known as trender [06:37] good morning all === magespawn_ is now known as magespawn [06:43] morning [06:43] * Squirm falls asleep [06:45] hi Squirm Vince-0 [07:10] since when is it sad to "learn Linux"? [07:11] lol [07:11] totally ms brainwashed [07:11] lo the fly [07:14] just had a local star school ask me to remove ubuntu and install ms because 'ubuntu is too difficult to learn' [07:14] hey superfly Kilos [07:14] no, it's just different [07:15] and when you're brainwashed with MS... [07:15] the teachers apperently find it too difficult [07:15] magespawn: did you quote them for the licenses? [07:15] that should put them off [07:15] all his machines he makes use windows [07:16] i did and for install time too [07:16] and anti-virus [07:16] magespawn: also, don't forget to make sure to quote them at least R300 per hour for any Windows support [07:16] then also explained they would have to buy office [07:16] any time you get called out, it costs them a minimum of R300 [07:17] hi psyatw [07:18] these are donated machines, that came with ubuntu [07:19] donated? they probably wouldn't run anything newer than XP, which you cannot get [07:20] kind of what i am hoping actually, although the other route makes me a lot more money [07:22] hi Kilos [07:22] hello magespawn [07:22] hi superfly [07:22] hi psyatw [07:23] hey psyatw [07:24] Kilos: i do try to get people to use ubuntu, cuts the price of a entry level desktop by about R1000 depending on the version of ms [07:26] good magespawn i just find it weird that supposed to be clever peeps dont see the better quality and other perks that come witrh ubuntu [07:27] with [07:28] but for peeps that do work like ian does i understand the need for winsucks too [07:29] is everything at your work linux based superfly ? [07:31] Kilos: no [07:31] most folks are running Windows [07:31] but HawkiesZA and I run Linux (Ubuntu and Kubuntu) [07:31] thats the biggest prob [07:31] Actually, our CEO uses Ubuntu too now. [07:31] the enlightened slowly wake the others up bit by bit [07:34] indeed and i also do not charge for ubuntu installs [07:38] but at times its like trying to force a english speaking person to learn chinese or jap [07:38] they cant break out of the mold [07:42] there is an idea put forward that ukzn should/will make in mandatory to take Zulu as a subject regardless of the degree taken [07:43] hmm... [07:43] i like the idea of people learning another language, but dislike the idea of it being set [07:43] zulu is easier then jap [07:43] no freedom of choice, there must always be choice [07:44] there was always 2 compulsary languages but i think they dumping or dumped afrikaans [07:45] so each province will most likely add their own local language as compulsary [07:45] then a third as optional [07:46] win! another accurate prediction [07:46] 18 months ago I said, within 24 months, tata gonna bail on neotel [07:46] http://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/78032-neotel-for-sale-vodacom-mtn-looking-to-buy-sources.html [07:51] only rumors at tye moment Symmetria, no confirmation [07:53] magespawn heh trust me in this industry, rumours like that are almost never without merit [07:53] the thing thats gonna stop that sale is the courts, I guarantee the moment a deal is struck there will be instant court cases [07:54] if vodacom wins it, mtn will be in court crying [07:54] if mtn wins it, well, vodacom, telkom and lotsa others will be in court [07:56] http://www.techcentral.co.za/neotel-is-not-for-sale-tata/40369/ [07:57] of course that's standard practice isn't it? [07:57] "nothing is going on!" [07:57] until the next second when they make the official announcement [08:05] trying to stop people short selling stock etc [08:05] lol, if tata were bailing on neotel, I'd be going long on tata not short [08:05] neotel is a disaster [08:06] they have run huge losses virtually every year since they opened their door (and I mean *HUGE*) [08:09] http://news.sky.com/ [08:09] *SIGH* [08:09] nice headline for za :( [08:13] good morning [08:13] Maaz_: coffee on [08:13] * Maaz_ puts the kettle on [08:14] hey charl [08:14] hi magespawn [08:14] Maaz coffee please [08:14] magespawn: Done [08:15] hi charl [08:15] hi ThatGraemeGuy [08:15] i wonder where this photo was taken https://twitter.com/danbri/status/325615884032933888/photo/1 [08:15] hi psyatw [08:15] 'ello [08:15] I was told that making my work laptop dualboot isn´t ´handy´ [08:16] as if I care for windows and work when I am at home, they didn´t tell me that I had to work from home or anything [08:16] what sort of work do you do? [08:16] I´m a service desk analyst [08:17] so I only have to take calls and log incidents and problems when I am at work [08:17] psyatw: why dual boot in the first place... these days you just virtualize [08:17] Coffee's ready for charl and magespawn! [08:17] charl, because I use linux at home [08:17] yeah that's weird, wouldn't expect much "work from home" in that position [08:17] and don´t touch the windows part at all [08:17] yeah but i mean, why not just run the one or the other inside a virtual machine [08:18] i dual boot too, there are some things virtualisation is useless at [08:18] i need windows for work so i run windows 8 inside a virtual machine inside vmware [08:18] because I only have windows for work [08:18] and then i run linux as my host [08:18] it needs to be physical,they installed it for me [08:18] my windows partition is for running games, and there's no sense running that in a VM [08:18] it is connected to the voip network etc. [08:18] although now portal is on linux, that's a good start [08:19] ah i see, voip can have trouble running behind a nat router [08:19] yeah [08:19] but this company is too much windows minded, I guess [08:20] the only thing making a difference is grub as my bootloader, but it doesn´t do anything at all [08:20] although, you can set it up that the virtual machine has an ip address on the network [08:21] ThatGraemeGuy: i think gaming would be one of the "exceptional" uses where you definitely want to run it on the host for optimal use [08:21] for most other purposes it doesn't matter [08:21] yup [08:21] i have a windows vm for work stuffs, but i put that on a vmware cluster [08:21] i don't need it to be portable [08:22] as long as you have internet you can just rdp into it and work [08:22] a lot of people work from home like that [08:22] still a lot of windowsy stuff to do at work [08:22] i was actually hired to be the designated windows guy [08:23] strange how things turn out [08:23] you should not publicly admit it in this channel ;) [08:23] meh [08:23] lol [08:23] one of those things [08:24] i work with whatever there is [08:24] most businesses still have a lot of windows, there's no way around it [08:25] I am glad I have nothing to do with windows here at work [08:25] except for using it to do my job [08:26] Symmetria: got to love this line from that article http://slexy.org/view/s2cOu8QfJr [08:26] so that means they are just getting caught more now [08:27] psyatw: when you do services almost my whole day is spent sorting windows problems [08:27] some quite often recuring [08:27] magespawn, yeah, I would rather hate that kind of job [08:28] I only got this job to make a start here in Poland and get back into studying, because I can actually save some money [08:29] at the moment, i do what pays the bills, and allows me to have unrestricted internet access [08:29] and then start learning more about a few things such as DNS and LDAP (AD) and Qt, Java, Oracle, .NET, Android and iOS programming [08:29] sure, I can understand that [08:30] windows, oracle, .NET, i see there is a lot coming "out of the closet" here today :) [08:30] heh [08:30] hahaha [08:31] well, this has been my plan all along, this job is just the vehicle I can use to reach my destination [08:32] if you know java, picking up android shouldn't be difficult, but for ios you have to deal with objective c [08:32] thats the way psyatw one step at a time [08:32] hi charl [08:32] i think i just can't deal with the syntax of objective c, it looks terrible [08:32] hi Kilos :) [08:32] yes, I already know Java, but I need to learn more about server side programming [08:32] how's it going [08:33] server side as in web applications? [08:33] Kilos, yeah, I learned that I can´t be a revolutionary all the time [08:33] hehe [08:33] that among others, yes [08:33] but there is a lot more [08:34] java servlets and containers like tomcat are fairly easy to get started with [08:34] but you get a LOT of web frameworks now, spring probably being the best known [08:35] i was looking with one of my colleagues the other day at a job site, we compared spring alone almost got as many hits as php [08:35] sorry that last part of the sentence was bad :) [08:35] yeah, I got that at job vacancies too, so I figured I need to learn more about those kinds of technologies [08:35] hahaha [08:35] don´t worry :) [08:36] you know what i mean ;) [08:36] haha, yeah [08:56] heh [08:56] i was never in a closet :) [08:57] i'm a sysadmin [08:57] if you have linux, i'll sysadmin it, if you have windows, i'll sysadmin it, freebsd? bring it [08:57] good man [08:58] if it has das blinkenlights, i'm there [08:58] as long as the paycheck is still making a regular appearance :) [08:58] lol [08:59] hi openfish [08:59] welcome to ubuntu-za [08:59] this is our ubuntu/linux help channel. do you need help? [09:01] magespawn, did goosie show last night? [09:02] ThatGraemeGuy, have you a link for me that says what a sysadmin does? [09:03] hi Julius129 [09:03] morning [09:03] wb [09:03] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_administrator [09:03] ty ThatGraemeGuy [09:03] np [09:07] Kilos: i did not come online last at all, so no idea [09:07] ty magespawn [09:07] i have got to read that ThatGraemeGuy [09:07] i wonder how his packing went, they are moving today , poor man, now the big work starts [09:08] * ThatGraemeGuy had no idea the job of sysadmin was such a mystery :) [09:08] lotsa involved learning hey ThatGraemeGuy [09:08] basically it involves everything to keep your network operational [09:09] pretty much [09:09] sysadmin is the gatekeeper on that particular system [09:09] so im the sysadmin here [09:09] hehe [09:09] the head dog [09:09] i look after the ubuntu stuff (95%) and the windows stuff (5%) [09:09] desktop stuff not so much [09:09] and network-related stuff is another guy [09:10] what ubuntu stuff is in a company that uses sucks [09:10] for some reason i've never really gotten much exposure in network stuff [09:10] hi simeon [09:10] Kilos, eh? [09:10] you can be the ceo/chairman/owner of a company, and if your sysadmin does not like you, you are in trouble [09:10] networking can be fun [09:11] oh and vmware stuff i do as well [09:11] ceo must select the sysadmin [09:11] but its so well behaved i forget about it sometimes [09:12] if you need to fire the sysadmin do so very carefully [09:12] magespawn, 40 [09:12] yoohoo [09:12] indeed Kilos, cool ne? [09:12] yeah [09:13] middle of the day too [09:13] all we need is a flame war to get over 50 [09:13] well lets see then [09:13] how is this? [09:14] ubuntu/gnulinux is the second best os [09:14] thats easy man [09:14] the first has still to be found [09:15] i wonder wassup Banlam and bakuman they havent said anything for months [09:16] maybe then "windows is the best os" [09:17] Windows ME 4eva what whaaat?! :P [09:17] no os can be the best for all categories [09:17] Some learning institutions are reluctant to, what is in effect, teach hacking to undergraduate level students [09:17] from that wikipeadia on sysadmins [09:17] best server os is freebsd, best os for newbies is ubuntu :) [09:17] hehe im a born noob [09:18] there's no "best" anything [09:18] freebsd isn't going to be any good if you need to run exchange server :P [09:18] the best is limited to the person using that word [09:18] business needs are more important than personal preferences in the real world [09:18] Symmetria, whats the best server os atm [09:19] yeah, right now im making my income from .net development on windows [09:19] there's no such thing as a best OS Kilos [09:19] there's only the OS most suited to a particular purpose [09:19] he says some work better depending on circumstance [09:19] s [09:20] that's my point, there are a lot of variables, you can't just say "X is the best" [09:20] i run freebsd servers with windows virtual machines inside [09:20] but he installed ubuntu server coupla days ago on one machine [09:21] i want to brag about my uptime [09:21] :) [09:21] Julius129, are you gonna make this channel one of you permanent daily visit channels [09:22] wb Georgl [09:23] and morning to you [09:23] mornig Kilos [09:23] freenode is a bit iffy of late i see [09:23] Julius129, brag about uptime, i'll brag about how my systems are more up-to-date with patches :P [09:23] ThatGraemeGuy: ineed [09:23] indeed [09:24] server uptime is irrelevant, service uptime is important [09:24] "i have two years uptime" -> "so you're a terrible sysadmin" :) [09:24] that's basically what you are saying [09:24] translated from noobspeak ;) [09:24] yup [09:25] yeah lotsa connection dropping lately [09:27] aw the fish oke didnt even greet [09:29] hey [09:29] wb openfish [09:30] thanks kilos - newbie - old 1996 CNE..after many years in management, back to playing [09:31] hehe well i dont run any services on the machine itself [09:31] i just forgot about it because it works sooo well [09:31] 11:35AM up 932 days, 22:11, 1 user, load averages: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00 [09:32] ouch... how old is that linux kernel and how many holes does it have :( [09:33] FreeBSD dms 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE #0: Sat Nov 21 15:48:17 UTC 2009 [09:34] but yes, i dont run any services on it, just using it as platform to run headless windows servers [09:34] if it was exposed, it would have been hacked many times probably [09:37] magespawn, maybe some of these clever peeps should lurk on my channel too [09:39] oh and Kilos, yes i will try my best to hang around here [09:39] ty Julius129 [09:40] im hanging around in the bitcoin-dev channel (yes i know im a loser) [09:40] so i thought why not check out the za guys too [09:41] it must be an auto join channel [09:41] not a check them out channel [09:45] well i checked this channel out yesterday, and today im back :) [09:46] good [09:46] friendliest most helpful channel of them all [09:47] just makes sense to join a channel with your fellow south africans [09:47] Julius129: as long as your surname is not malema you are welcome here any time :) [09:47] hahaha [09:48] and nothing wrong with bitcoin either [09:49] im not mr malema, but i wish he would change his name to something else, because my name has been in the family before malema's father was conceived [09:49] openfish, if you need help just state what you need and someone will help you [09:49] charl, cool so you also like bitcoin? [09:50] just add caesar to it and it's all good :) [09:50] nah i'm not really big into it but i like to watch it from the sideline [09:50] it's an interesting concept and it isn't any more flawed than any other currency the world has to offer [09:51] i hate it and then i love it too [09:51] but im doing development work on it [09:51] well for my own experiments [09:51] sounds interesting [09:51] but i learnt alot from the technology [09:52] whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is, he made a big impact on this planet he will live forever [09:53] if bitcoin doesnt succeed, something will be inspired by it to succeed [09:54] qagood girl [09:54] ai! [09:57] those star schools pc they want windows on are Intel Pentium 4 3 Ghz with 512 mb and 80 gig hard drive, currently running Ubuntu 12.04 [09:57] isn't that quite old? which version of windows do they want [09:58] any [09:58] the machine originally had winxp professional [09:58] same as i got here magespawn [09:59] they want 7 on them? [09:59] that is about the only legal option outside of open source [10:00] might need more ram and good graphics cards [10:00] windows xp is reaching end of extended support April 8, 2014 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle [10:00] it's doubtful that a pc of that calibre can run any modern version of windows [10:01] tell them to buy the 7 ultimate package for businesses or schools so one dvd can do them all [10:01] i think running windows 7 would be a far cry, running windows 8 would be terrible [10:02] xp was good for min ram pcs [10:02] yeah well xp is 12 years old so no surprise :) [10:04] why do they want windows back? [10:11] schools are a prob to convert to ubuntu [10:11] teachers stuff in win mode for starters [10:11] inetpro, can tell you more about that [10:23] the stated reason in this case is "ubuntu is too difficult to learn" or "teachers do not want to learn to use ubuntu" [10:24] offer to give classes magespawn [10:25] i found ubuntu much easier to learn than i did with windows [10:25] me trying to teach teachers who do not want to learn == disaster [10:25] or get some of the kids to see your ubuntu working and get them to nag the teachers [10:26] no man now is the best time because they cant send you to the office for slacking [10:26] you can rev them [10:26] revenge on the teachers [10:27] there is actually min to learn on ubuntu. check how quick tara picked it up [10:28] and you can tell them there is always help here [10:28] but another 1g or 512m ram would help [10:29] im using 1.5g on similar pc [10:39] teachers are some of the most stupid people i know [10:39] hahaha [10:40] need to find a way to reach the kids out of the school environment [10:46] not all teachers, just like not all people, but their opening statement does colour my opinion in this case [10:57] teachers do not want to learn [10:57] i don't even need to read further to see the problem here [10:57] and the former assumption is also stupid but not even coming to that [10:57] i still have somebody need to demonstrate how learning ubuntu is any more difficult than learning osx or windows [10:59] understanding the dash function seeks to be their first prob [10:59] from there even unity is good [11:00] sorry i'm not doing well in the sentence building department today [11:00] I think it all depends on the applications [11:01] and maybe there is still too much of a reason to use the command line, maybe every need to use it must be eliminated [11:01] the command line for me is the best part of linux [11:01] but once set up it works better than windows [11:01] but i'm not the "typical" user either :P [11:02] that´s just what I wanted to say :P [11:02] but i think for most general purposes you can do everything with the gui these days [11:02] indeed [11:02] you have to want to do very specific stuff to need to go to the command line [11:02] but I believe the cli shouldn´t be needed for anything pertaining to regular users [11:02] no that's probably true [11:03] but i think we have come to that level already, or not? [11:03] also the want to learn ubuntu is whats lacking in teachers [11:03] Kilos: that's exactly it [11:03] they dont want to learn new stuff even if its better [11:04] it's disturbing that people who need to teach others don't want to learn themselves [11:04] how can they adequately teach others then [11:04] but if they were offered an increase for learning ubuntu they would all jump [11:04] yeah i'm sure :) [11:04] although, from what i have heard, the salaries for teachers in s.africa are terrible [11:05] they teach what they know and forget that everything is progressing [11:05] teachers have always been paid poorly [11:05] somebody i know immigrated to england because the salaries in south africa for teachers are appalling [11:05] world wide i think [11:06] not everywhere, definitely not in finland [11:06] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland [11:06] do they compare with other qualified salaries there [11:06] I think there are still some ways to go, but we have come a long way [11:06] "Both primary and secondary teachers must have a Master's degree to qualify." [11:08] then look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Finland [11:08] wow, they must have master´s degrees to teach pupils at primary schools too? [11:08] "Finland has a highly industrialised, mixed economy with a per capita output equal to that of other western economies such as France, Germany, Sweden or the United Kingdom." [11:08] "The largest industries[11] are electronics (21.6 percent), machinery, vehicles and other engineered metal products (21.1 percent), forest industry (13.1 percent), and chemicals (10.9 percent)." [11:11] * psyatw wanted to go to Norway last year but has made a stop in Poland for now [11:13] norway sounds like a nice country but from what i've heard the cost of living is really high [11:13] yes, that´s what scared me away from going there for now [11:13] I already got scared in Denmark, so Norway would be horrifying [11:14] I want to earn money there and spend it in Poland :P [11:15] norway is not an eu-country, i'm not sure what the deal is with immigration, maybe you need some type of visa? [11:16] yeah, it may be in Schengen, but staying there for a longer period of time probably requires a visa [11:17] if i had to go to scandinavia i would go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espoo [11:29] Julius129, have you joined our mailing list? and do you tweet [11:47] ThatGraemeGuy: you also use vmware right? have you ever tried WSX? [11:48] never heard of it :-o [11:48] oh it seems to be a feature of workstation [11:49] yes, very impressive [11:49] i only deal with vSphere (vCenter+ESXi) [11:49] oh i see [12:04] brb [12:14] have a good weekend all! [12:17] Finland's economy used to be Nokia and paper - both are going the way of the dodo [12:28] http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/329098_10151564498765528_1108585056_o.jpg [12:28] yay, new bag to carry all my camera lenses on flights [12:29] pelican? [12:30] vanguard [12:30] heh strongest most sturdy well padded lockable case I could find [12:30] ah [12:30] heh and considering the value of everything in it lol, worth the money to protect it [13:05] Kilos, not yet, and i dont use twitter hey [13:06] Julius129, here is our list link http://bit.ly/MCOujZ [13:07] np we just have a tweet place for posts about whats going on here [13:07]