[00:17] <Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/8O5dwKe08rdEFB94vUzr/ make sense?  Thinking that here or not much later would be good so it doesn't pile up.
[00:23] <knome> is @DNS-HERE a keyword?
[00:26] <knome> Unit193, ^
[00:26] <Unit193> No, that's why I said "and one section I know is iffy, but figured I'd add and it can be removed later."
[00:27] <knome> i would just drop "or ..." then
[00:27] <knome> otherwise, it looks good
[00:27] <Unit193> http://vanir.unit193.tk/xubuntu/desktop-guide/internet-networks.html#network-troubleshooting-advanced
[00:28] <knome> yeah
[00:28] <pleia2> oh yeah, how do we generate the html again?
[00:28] <knome> btw, "bound to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" should be <guitext> or sth
[00:29] <pleia2> I will do it now
[00:29] <knome> pleia2, dl the branch, then type "make" in the docs root
[00:29] <pleia2> k
[00:29] <knome> then look under build/
[00:29] <Unit193> knome: I didn't add that bit, but I could change it.  You read the ENTITY changes?
[00:30] <knome> Unit193, i did, they are good. i know you didn't add it, but i thought while you are there...
[00:30] <knome> i suppose same with NOERROR too actually
[00:31] <knome> what about the wording in "should be working"?
[00:31] <knome> how common it is that DNS isn't working if that command runs as expected?
[00:31] <knome> actually, i'd probably go:
[00:32] <knome> "If you see the word <guitext>NOERROR</guitext> in the header section of the output, your DNS is working."
[00:33] <knome> or "your DNS server is working."
[00:33] <Unit193> Domain Name Server server is working.
[00:34] <knome> we're talking about DNS before
[00:35] <knome> maybe change the section title to "Check Domain Name Servers (DNS)"
[00:35] <Unit193> DNS is Domain Name Server.
[00:35] <Unit193> Alright.
[00:35] <knome> yes, but literally we've been using "DNS"
[00:35] <knome> so if we didn't think it's needed to write it out before, why now
[00:36] <Unit193> I don't know, I just used "DNS" as that's what you see with  nm-tool
[00:36] <Unit193> guitext isn't a thing.
[00:36] <knome> hmm
[00:36] <pleia2> http://docs.xubuntu.org/ has raring docs now
[00:36] <knome> pleia2, cool
[00:37] <pleia2> the quantal ones are at http://docs.xubuntu.org/1210/
[00:37] <pleia2> (not linked anywhere really though)
[00:37] <knome> agh, i need to work on the startpage for that
?
[00:38] <knome> Unit193, i'll check the tag in a minute
[00:38] <Unit193> eth1 was using that.  Sure.
[00:38]  * Unit193 doesn't know docbook.
[00:38] <knome> in that case it's probably fine
[00:38] <knome> as long as we are consisten
[00:38] <knome> +t
[00:40] <knome> pleia2, want to draft a text for that?
[00:41] <pleia2> startpage text?
[00:41] <knome> pleia2, should we use "Xubuntu Desktop Guide" instead of "Xubuntu Offline Documentation"
[00:41] <knome> pleia2, for docs.x.o
[00:41] <pleia2> yeah
[00:41] <pleia2> but that's what it generates with magic
[00:42] <knome> yeah, but i was considering doing that with the actual docs as well
[00:42] <pleia2> good
[00:42] <pleia2> the top part is an image so I can't change that
[00:42] <knome> or just "Xubuntu Documentation" ?
[00:42] <pleia2> "Xubuntu Documentation" is nice
[00:42] <knome> okay
[00:43] <knome> then i can probably fix the image as well
[00:43] <knome> :)
[00:43] <pleia2> the makefile needs some love for html too, it doesn't do it right :)
[00:43] <knome> what's wrong?
[00:43] <pleia2> common/ and about/ should be in the desktop-guide/ directory
[00:43] <pleia2> instead they are all in the same directory
[00:44] <knome> i'm not sure i'm following; let me make as well
[00:45] <pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5675805/
[00:46] <knome> hmm.
[00:46] <Unit193> Updated and online.
[00:46] <pleia2> (of course ignore the 1210 directory)
[00:46] <knome> i'm wondering if that breaks the offline docs part.
[00:46]  * knome looks
[00:46] <pleia2> it's not a huge deal if it's too much of a pain to fix
[00:48] <knome> i'll fix that as we go
[00:48] <knome> i mean, at a stage when i'm ready to fix the docbook stuff and see if that turns out right
[00:49] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/sYSGzXs205cZ5UwCKFPe/ latest.
[00:54] <knome> pleia2, if you pull now, it should be fixed
[00:54] <knome> Unit193, goodie. gonna make a merge request of that?
[00:55] <Unit193> Now I have to explain what I did. :(
[00:55] <knome> * Reflect default application changes (GIMP and Gnumeric)
[00:55] <knome> * Update the network troubleshooting section
[00:56] <knome> that should be it
[00:56] <knome> and you can mention that you updated the irc channel name, but -testing still works, so no need to
[00:58] <knome> meh at pastebins not supporting word wrap!
[00:58] <knome> pleia2, fix that and get paid for it!
[00:59] <pleia2> knome: what should be fixed?
[00:59] <Unit193> Whoops.  Well I suppose verbose isn't bad...  Should I add myself to whatever credits file there is?  :P
[00:59] <knome> Unit193, changelog.
[00:59] <Unit193> Yes, but credits too?
[00:59] <pleia2> knome: oh, pull of trunk?
[00:59] <knome> Unit193, sure, if you're not in there :)
[01:00] <knome> pleia2, yup lp:xubuntu-
[01:00] <knome> docs
[01:00] <pleia2> ah gotcha
[01:00] <knome> why would you think i'd push anywhere else since i have the powers to puah there? :P
[01:00] <Unit193> http://docs.xubuntu.org/ln-idp3702784.html if it wasn't 404ing http://vanir.unit193.tk/xubuntu/desktop-guide/ln-idp1938936.html
[01:00] <knome> push too
[01:01] <knome> Unit193, it's docs.xubuntu.org/ln-idp5598192.html now ...
[01:01] <knome> Unit193, and definitely, go ahead
[01:08] <Unit193> bzr: ERROR: No such file: u'/home/unit193/Documents/xubuntu-docs/.bzr/repository/indices/c85a7715032106aa74b0a9eeb8c109ab.six': [Errno 2] No such file or directory: u'/home/unit193/Documents/xubuntu-docs/.bzr/repository/indices/c85a7715032106aa74b0a9eeb8c109ab.six
[01:09] <pleia2> gah, copyright
[01:09] <Unit193> I have no idea what to do with that.
[01:09] <knome> huh?
[01:09] <knome> wth.
[01:09] <Unit193> bzr fix-it-now ? :P
[01:10] <knome> uhhh.. i'm stumped.
[01:10] <knome> that sounds stupid
[01:12] <knome> why on earth are we being idiots with the legal notice
[01:13] <pleia2> the Canonical nonsense?
[01:13] <pleia2> I don't know what it should say
[01:14] <knome> :D
[01:14] <knome> no, just the technical way we're including it and making it a pain in the lower back
[01:15] <Unit193> Ok, I really, really, really hate this.
[01:16] <skellat> Unit193: What do you hate?
[01:16] <knome> Unit193, still stuck?
[01:17] <Unit193> knome: Oh, no.  Not stuck anymore, the changes aren't there anymore.
[01:17] <knome> ugh
[01:26] <Unit193> Note, I still greatly dislike bzr.
[01:27] <knome> noted.
[01:27] <Unit193> Done, now lets see if I mess with that again. :P
[01:27] <knome> you fixed bzr? wooo
[01:27] <knome> ;)
[01:27] <Unit193> I'm not God, I can't do that.
[01:28] <knome> boo :(
[01:28] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/saucy/+merge/164566 anyway.
[01:29] <Unit193> Ummm...
[01:29] <knome> nvm the conflicts.
[01:29] <knome> i'll handle that..
[01:29] <Unit193> Alright, so I'm done?
[01:29] <knome> yup!
[01:29] <knome> thanks
[01:29] <Unit193> Whew, great!
[01:29] <Unit193> Thanks.
[01:33] <Unit193> (I pulled from the pastebin, it wasn't too old.)
[01:34] <knome> :)
[01:37] <knome> pushed to lp:xubuntu-docs
[01:37] <knome> thanks again
[01:47] <Unit193> Sure thing, glad it helps.
[02:06] <Unit193> Dowh, I was going to correct the /home/username section...
[02:07] <knome> pleia2, oi princess!
[02:08] <knome> pleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-website/docs-startpage 
[02:09] <pleia2> ooh
[02:10]  * pleia2 does so
[02:10] <pleia2> 12.10 is still supported :)
[02:11] <pleia2> I'm thinking we use the same wording as on help.ubuntu.com
[02:11] <pleia2> Ubuntu 13.04 - the current stable version, released in April 2013, codenamed Raring Ringtail.
[02:11] <pleia2> Ubuntu 12.10 - a previous stable version, released in October 2012, codenamed Quantal Quetzal.
[02:11] <knome> well, you know, feel free to update the branch..
[02:11] <pleia2> (ignore LTS until we fix the docs)
[02:11] <pleia2> okie
[02:11] <knome> it's just a simple html file
[02:15] <pleia2> I did bzr wrong \o/
[02:15] <knome> heh
[02:15] <knome> i wonder if doing it right is possible...
[02:15] <pleia2> crap, how was I supposed to merge this thing?
[02:15] <knome> merge? :D
[02:16] <knome> how can you be in a situation to merge when you only have one commit before your work?
[02:16] <pleia2> Merging from remembered parent location bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage/
[02:16] <pleia2> Nothing to do. 
[02:16] <pleia2> oh
[02:16] <pleia2> push?
[02:16] <knome> yes
[02:16] <knome> commit first.
[02:16] <knome> then push
[02:16] <pleia2> yeah did commit
[02:17] <pleia2> I need to stop switching between RCSs all day, I end up not knowing how to use any of them
[02:17] <pleia2> anyway, done
[02:17] <pleia2> boo, bad whitespace
[02:17] <knome> \o/
[02:18] <knome> hmm
[02:18] <pleia2> there, better
[02:19] <knome> btw
[02:19] <knome> it's quantal, not quantum
[02:20] <pleia2> haha
[02:20] <pleia2> too much openstack :(
[02:22] <knome> "We require that all translations made in Launchpad are BSD licensed. This does not apply to translations imported from elsewhere. Read more about translation licensing.", from https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject
[02:22] <knome> just FYI
[02:22] <pleia2> ok
[02:22] <pleia2> seems fine
[02:22] <knome> i thought so as well, but wanted to share
[02:25] <Unit193> pleia2: I don't ping you with every paste, do I? ;)
[02:26] <knome> should we write a blog post about compiz on xubuntu?
[02:26] <pleia2> knome: ugh, just noticed the docs look for /common/ rather than common/ so they're looking in the docroot for those files (which change between versions)
[02:27] <pleia2> actually
[02:27] <pleia2> ../common/
[02:27] <pleia2> bah
[02:27] <knome> did you get the latest commit?
[02:27] <knome> that's probably wrong though
[02:27] <pleia2> not pulling trunk
[02:28] <pleia2> for 1210 and 1304
[02:28] <knome> let me go fix that
[02:28] <knome> right
[02:28] <pleia2> uploaded splash page and moved some stuff around
[02:40] <Noskcaj> if you run out of things to do to the websites, the upgrade page needs upgradeinh and distrowatch should link to more than just Xubuntu
[02:42] <knome> pleia2, trunk should be now a bit nicer to you
[02:42] <knome> pleia2, for the future
[02:43] <knome> anyway, i'm running out of battery (laptop) and it's soon 6am.
[02:43] <knome> night!
[02:43] <knome> and see you later
[02:43] <knome> :) --<
[02:43] <knome> -->
[02:46] <pleia2> thank you :) good night!
[12:01] <knome> skellat, did you have some changes you wanted to merge to xubuntu-docs?
[12:33] <skellat> knome: Nope.  Just spent time rebasing my working tree to match the upstream tree
[12:33] <skellat> knome: Changes will be made eventually.  I have some sort of family event today to attend to.
[12:33] <knome> oki
[12:59] <knome> i will start watching the FIN-SWE ice hockey match now as well :)
[13:13] <ochosi> knome: i just received some screenshots from elfy of gnome's mixer
[13:13] <ochosi> i think the way things are arranged there is much more useful than what we have in pavucontrol atm
[13:13] <ochosi> that'd lead to 3 tabs basically: output | input | applications
[13:14] <ochosi> apps shouldn't be the first/default tab, as it is now, cause most ppl don't need this fine level of control
[13:16] <ochosi> that's my first impression/assessment, i'll look into it more next week when/if i have time
[15:04] <knome> ochosi, sounds sensible
[15:24] <len-1310> ochosi, does this mean xfce is redoing it's mixer app?
[15:24] <len-1310> or is this a new project?
[15:27] <knome> len-1310, they aren't; this is something we want to do for xubuntu
[15:28] <knome> len-1310, xfce4-mixer doesn't support pulseaudio anyway, so it's not a good fit for us
[15:28] <len-1310> so it is a new project then
[15:28] <knome> well, kind of
[15:28] <len-1310> I understand
[15:28] <knome> we're not adding any features
[15:28] <knome> we're just looking to revamp the pavucontrol UI
[15:28] <len-1310> Wil there still be a way of doing card config if not on a tab?
[15:29] <knome> most definitely - we're not looking to drop features either
[15:29] <len-1310> The ability to turn cards off is really important if the user has multiple cards.
[15:30] <len-1310> I have to do so on two machines for different reasons.
[15:30] <knome> i understand US generally has different needs
[15:30] <knome> or users of US
[15:31] <len-1310> Also, I have had many people ask if it is possible to record the output of another app instead of a physical input. It is possible with PA but the pavucontrol kind of hids this :)
[15:32] <len-1310> That is actually a feature that is more useful outside of US.
[15:32] <knome> if the feature exists in pavucontrol even if it's hidden... then be in touch with ochosi to get it more visible
[15:32] <len-1310> OK
[15:33] <len-1310> A connections window/dialog (if not tab) like qjackctl has. Would be nice.
[15:33] <len-1310> But may be too much work.
[15:33] <knome> well again, we're not planning on writing new features
[15:34] <len-1310> It would be the easiest to explain to the new user.
[15:34] <knome> if somebody from US wants to do that, we're ok with that :)
[15:34] <len-1310> Its not really a new feature.
[15:34] <knome> new feature for pavucontrol i mean
[15:35] <len-1310> all of that info is there in pavucontrol, it is just spread over all the tabs.
[15:35] <knome> in that case it's probably doable.
[15:36] <len-1310> I can record youtube audio with audacity now (for example and not the best way to do things) with pavucontrol.
[15:36] <len-1310> With most people it is wanting to record a skype call to make a podcast.
[15:55] <jjfrv8> knome, I've been following the IRC logs. I'm ready for the docs effort whenever you guys are.
[15:59] <knome> jjfrv8, if you see something lacking in the 13.10 docs, we're fine to go ahead with that already
[16:00] <jjfrv8> Okay. Should I file bugs or what?
[16:07] <len-1310> knome, just playing around with pavucontrol (13.10 alphaish) and some of the features that used to be there are gone and there are some new ones as well. Current functionality is adequate for any use I see. I can no longer choose the ouput of an app as an input, but I can choose an output to a device.
[16:07] <len-1310> I can do so in an easy to explain way.
[16:12] <knome> okay
[16:13] <knome> jjfrv8, sure, or if you are familiar with merge requests, those are even better
[16:13] <knome> jjfrv8, if you want, i can go through that with you
[16:13] <jjfrv8> knome, yeah, I think I'll need some guidance there.
[16:13] <knome> jjfrv8, want to do that now or later?
[16:14] <jjfrv8> I've got time now if you do.
[16:14] <knome> sure :)
[16:14] <knome> are you familiar with bzr, eg. have you worked with the actual documentation markup yet?
[16:14] <jjfrv8> negative
[16:14] <knome> okay, let's start with that then
[16:15] <knome> first, you need to install bzr
[16:15] <knome> sudo apt-get install bzr
[16:15] <jjfrv8> done
[16:16] <knome> the next step is to download the branch to your pc
[16:16] <knome> you might want to create a directory for that, but it's purely optional. i have /data/knome/Repositories/ for branches
[16:16] <knome> in a directory where you are comfortable getting the branch, type:
[16:17] <knome> bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:17] <knome> that will get you the latest source markup for the docs
[16:18] <knome> let me know when you've done that or if you need more help with that
[16:19] <jjfrv8> I think I messed it up. I got a message "You have not informed bzr of your lp id...
[16:19] <knome> oh, okay :)
[16:19] <jjfrv8> When I tried to copy that message I interrupted the process
[16:19] <jjfrv8> Now I get an error when I re-run it
[16:19] <knome> hmm
[16:19] <knome> what's the error?
[16:19] <jjfrv8> "already have a branch: xubuntu-docs
[16:20] <knome> you can do 'rm -rf xubuntu-docs' and then redo the bzr branch command
[16:20] <knome> that should guarantee you have the correct stuff
[16:20] <jjfrv8> running it again...
[16:21] <jjfrv8> "Branched 34 revisions" but still says I need to inform lp about id.
[16:22] <knome> then type 'bzr launchpad-login jjfrv8-gmail'
[16:22] <knome> that should make the message disappear
[16:23] <jjfrv8> says I have not registered any SSH keys with lp.
[16:24] <knome> right. let's go through that soon... :)
[16:24] <jjfrv8> alrighty
[16:25] <knome> type 'ssh-keygen -t rsa'
[16:26] <jjfrv8> "Enter file in which to save the key". Take default?
[16:26] <knome> yup, the default is fine
[16:27] <jjfrv8> looks like it worked
[16:27] <knome> great!
[16:27] <knome> now you need to register the key with launchpad
[16:27] <knome> if you look at ~/.ssh with thunar, you'll see a .pub file
[16:28] <knome> i imagine the default is id_rsa.pub
[16:28] <knome> that's you public ssh key
[16:28] <jjfrv8> I see it
[16:28] <knome> the file id_rsa is your private key; don't let others touch it :)
[16:28] <knome> now open the .pub file
[16:28] <jjfrv8> ok
[16:29] <knome> then go to https://launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/+editsshkeys
[16:29] <knome> you should have a textbox where you can insert the public key - just paste the whole .pub file contents there
[16:30] <jjfrv8> pasted. Click Import button?
[16:30] <knome> yup
[16:30] <jjfrv8> SSH key added.
[16:30] <knome> yes, and i can see that now as well
[16:30] <knome> in https://launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail
[16:31] <knome> now let's get back to the docs source
[16:31] <knome> cd into the xubuntu-docs directory
[16:32] <jjfrv8> k
[16:32] <knome> if you want to update the branch (eg. get the latest changes from launchpad) at a later time, you don't need to do bzr branch
[16:32] <knome> just cd to this directory and type 'bzr pull'
[16:32] <jjfrv8> ls
[16:33] <jjfrv8> whoops
[16:33] <knome> if you want to make sure you have the latest things when you start working on the docs, you can do that when you start working
[16:33] <knome> bzr will simply tell you there's nothing to pull if you're at the latest version
[16:33] <jjfrv8> Yup. See that.
[16:33] <Unit193> I use bzr clone. :P
[16:33] <knome> Unit193, isn't that deprecated? :)
[16:34] <knome> now to get you familiar with the docbook markup
[16:34] <Unit193> So it keeps telling me.
[16:34] <knome> inside the branch directory, navigate to desktop-guide/C/
[16:34] <knome> you'll find several .xml files, one for each section in the docs
[16:35] <knome> open one in your favorite text editor to see how the markup looks like
[16:35] <knome> (recommended to open something else than index.xml)
[16:35] <jjfrv8> ok
[16:36] <knome> (or cc-by-sa.xml to that matter :P)
[16:37] <jjfrv8> looking at command-line.xml
[16:38] <knome> ok, so you'll notice that the documentation follows a specific structure
[16:38] <knome> i would say the best way to get your head around something new is to look for examples in the existing docs
[16:38] <knome> we're covering pretty much every situation there
[16:41] <knome> (just a sec, i'm checking a thing)
[16:41] <knome> ok, now to build the docs
[16:41] <knome> you will need some packages:
[16:42] <knome> sudo apt-get install docbook docbook-xsl docbook-utils xsltproc
[16:42] <jjfrv8> BTW, my main install is still 12.04. Is that a problem?
[16:42] <knome> nope
[16:45] <jjfrv8> finished
[16:46] <knome> ok, great
[16:46] <knome> now in the root directory of the branch
[16:46] <knome> type *drumroll*....
[16:46] <knome> make
[16:46] <knome> that should build the documentation
[16:46] <knome> (don't worry, your installed packages are untouched)
[16:47] <jjfrv8> Looks like it worked.
[16:47] <knome> good!
[16:47] <knome> now if you look into the 'build' directory, you should see the built docs
[16:47] <knome> you'll also have the desktop-guide directory there
[16:48] <knome> and inside that, all the .html files for the sections you saw as .xml files before
[16:48] <jjfrv8> got 'em.
[16:48] <knome> great
[16:49] <knome> now you got the basics on how to get the source, and how to build and test the docs
[16:49] <knome> now go back to the .xml files and edit something
[16:49] <knome> it can be a real bug you are willing to fix, or something silly
[16:51] <knome> remember that you are browsing the latest version, so this is effectively the docs that will be in 13.10
[16:52] <jjfrv8> Woohoo.
[16:53] <knome> tell me when you've changed something and i'll continue
[16:53] <jjfrv8> That was the "woohoo" :)
[16:53] <knome> oh, ok :)
[16:54] <knome> now you have a change you want us to merge to the docs source that eventually gets to the installed docs
[16:54] <knome> if you had added new files, you would want to type 'bzr add .', which marks all new files to be included
[16:54] <knome> usually you don't have to do that, but it's good to know
[16:55] <knome> now let's commit your change to your local copy:
[16:55] <knome> bzr commit
[16:55] <knome> that'll open a text editor where you can write the description of the changes you made
[16:55] <knome> eg. "Fixed a typo in section X." or "Added more information on X."
[16:56] <knome> try to be accurate and thorough in the commit messages, since that's the only way somebody can easily see what we've changed
[16:57] <jjfrv8> bzr commit says to "set your name with the whoami command"
[16:57] <knome> ok, that's fair enough :)
[16:57] <knome> you should do 'bzr whoami "Jack Fromm <email@address>"
[16:57] <knome> -', or +' :)
[16:58] <knome> that'll make sure others know who did all the awesome fixes
[16:59] <jjfrv8> Ok, got the text editor up now and am adding description.
[16:59] <knome> after you've done that, redo 'bzr commit'
[16:59] <knome> great
[16:59] <knome> when you've done, simply save the file and exit the editor
[16:59] <knome> then bzr will go on and add the commit
[17:00] <knome> if you want to cancel the commit, don't write anything and close the editor - bzr cancels the commit due to an empty commit message
[17:00] <jjfrv8> Okay, that's what I did.
[17:01] <knome> which one? :)
[17:01] <jjfrv8> cancelled
[17:01] <knome> oh, please go ahead
[17:01] <knome> it can be silly
[17:01] <knome> we won't be uploading silly commits the the installed docs :)
[17:02] <jjfrv8> What's silly is I don't know how to save a file with nano :)
[17:02] <knome> oh! :)
[17:02] <knome> ctrl+o
[17:02] <knome> and enter
[17:02] <jjfrv8> ah!
[17:03] <knome> so now you've done a change in the docs, (and in a real situation, you would want to build the docs in between and see if it's ok), and then committed locally
[17:03] <knome> now we're ready to push the commit to launchad!
[17:03] <knome> launchpad too!
[17:04] <jjfrv8> So the 'bzr commit' is just local?
[17:04] <knome> yes
[17:04] <knome> you can even prepare several local commits before pushing
[17:04] <jjfrv8> ok
[17:05] <knome> so now what we need to do
[17:05] <knome> you don't have the permissions to push to lp:xubuntu-docs (very few people do)
[17:05] <knome> so you will need to push the branch under your own username
[17:05] <knome> to be able to do a merge request, you will need to push to a specific location
[17:06] <knome> to do that, type:
[17:06] <knome> bzr push lp:~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/branchname
[17:06] <knome> where branchname is anything you think is appropriate/descriptive
[17:06] <knome> it can be "network-section-fixes"
[17:06] <knome> or "saucy-applications"
[17:07] <knome> or as i said, anything you wish
[17:07] <knome> to do that, you will need the password from your ssh key if you set one
[17:07] <jjfrv8> I didn't set one.
[17:08] <knome> okay, then you won't need one :)
[17:08] <jjfrv8> Did you want me to do the push?
[17:08] <knome> that simply ensures it's you pushing to your repository, not Unit193 pushing silly things and saying you did it
[17:08] <knome> yes please :)
[17:10] <knome> once you've pushed, the branch will appear at https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail
[17:10] <jjfrv8> "you have not informed bzr of you lp ID"
[17:10] <jjfrv8> I had accidentally closed the terminal
[17:11] <jjfrv8> do I need to do the whoami again?
[17:11] <knome> oh, no
[17:11] <knome> 'bzr launchpad-id jjfrv8-gmail'
[17:11] <knome> without the quotes
[17:11] <knome> and you shouldn't need to run those after this, they should be saved
[17:12] <knome> sorry, launchpad-login, not launchpad-id
[17:13] <jjfrv8> couldn't connect to: /tmp/keyring-NqFY8U/pkcs11: No such file or directory
[17:13] <knome> hmmm...
[17:13] <knome> weird, that runs without problems for me
[17:13] <knome> i'll check that
[17:17] <Unit193> :D
[17:17] <knome> Unit193, you know a workaround?
[17:17] <knome> seems to be a stupid bug.
[17:19] <Unit193> knome: Yes I do, but it's something to ignore anyway.  I get that all the time if I start screen before login, or x crashes.
[17:19] <knome> jjfrv8, do you have gnome-keyring-daemon running?
[17:20] <jjfrv8> Where do I check?
[17:20] <knome> Unit193, it's a problem if people can't push to LP because of that, so if you have a workaround...
[17:20] <knome> jjfrv8, 'ps -A | grep gnome-keyring' i suppose
[17:20] <Unit193> knome: pianobar will output the error, and just continue.  It's looking for a moved dir, basically (deleted, recreated new name.) so I just link the old name to the new dir.
[17:21] <knome> aha
[17:21] <knome> what's the new dir then?
[17:21] <knome> or is the filename simply different?
[17:22] <knome> Unit193, and want to go through that with jjfrv8?
[17:23] <knome> Unit193, would need fixing only once.
[17:23] <Unit193> ls /tmp/  then ln -s newname /tmp/keyring-NqFY8U
[17:24] <knome> jjfrv8, follow that?
[17:24] <jjfrv8> Can I run that from anywhere or do I need to be in tmp?
[17:25] <knome> jjfrv8, don't need to be in /tmp
[17:25] <Unit193> Anywhere.
[17:25] <knome> as long as you start "newname" with /tmp too
[17:26] <Unit193> (Don't need to.)
[17:27] <knome> hmm, okay.
[17:27] <knome> :)
[17:27] <Unit193> ln -s newlink /tmp/file > ls -lh /tmp/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 unit193 unit193    7 May 18 13:26 file -> newlink
[17:27] <jjfrv8> Okay, I ran that first command but it didn't seem to change anything.
[17:28] <knome> jjfrv8, did you see a keyring-something file in the file listing?
[17:29] <jjfrv8> Yes, and that's the name I plugged into the 'ln' command.
[17:30] <knome> hmps
[17:30] <jjfrv8> but that name is different from the one that shows up in the 'launchpad-login' error message.
[17:31] <knome> you should replace "newname" with the name you saw in the output, and the latter with the one that's in the launchpad error message. is that what you did?
[17:31] <jjfrv8> No, will do that now.
[17:35] <knome> did that help?
[17:36] <jjfrv8> Did that but it didn't help the bzr command.  Checking my typing again...
[17:36] <knome> hmh.
[17:36] <knome> note that you can tab-complete at least the newname
[17:39] <jjfrv8> Yeah, forgot to specify full path.  But now getting "WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /tmp/keyring-NqFY8U/pkcs11: Too many levels of symbolic links
[17:39] <knome> humm...
[17:39] <knome> Unit193?
[17:39] <Unit193> I didn't do it!
[17:39] <Unit193> Sounds like linking didn't go well.
[17:39] <knome> i meant any ideas...
[17:39] <knome> yeah, stupid. :<
[17:40] <knome> Unit193, what about copying back and forth?
[17:40] <Unit193> ls -lh /tmp/ | pastebinit   or could just relogin or something.
[17:49] <knome> hmpf.
[17:49] <knome> jjfrv8, any news?
[17:49] <knome> jjfrv8, did you run the command Unit193 proposed?
[17:49] <knome> jjfrv8, or relogin or "something" :)
[17:50] <jjfrv8> I did the pastebinit command but haven't relogged in.
[17:50] <knome> paste us the url then :)
[17:50] <knome> (from output)
[17:51] <jjfrv8> just a sec
[17:51] <jjfrv8> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5677910/
[17:54] <knome> and the bzr command still gives you the same error?
[17:55] <jjfrv8> Affirmative
[17:55] <knome> try this:
[17:55] <knome> rm /tmp/keyring-NqFy8U
[17:55] <knome> cp /tmp/keyring-GEnH4D /tmp/keyring-NqFy8U
[17:55] <knome> then run the bzr command
[17:56] <jjfrv8> "no such file or directory"
[17:56] <jjfrv8> output from bzr
[17:56] <knome> hmm.
[17:56] <knome> which file?
[17:56] <knome> or, what is it looking for now
[17:56] <jjfrv8> the one you told me to delete
[17:57] <knome> did you also run the cp command?
[17:57] <jjfrv8> oh, missed the following command
[17:57] <knome> :)
[18:00] <Unit193> This isn't going well. :P
[18:00] <jjfrv8> It keeps saying "omitting directory" and doesn't do the copy
[18:00] <knome> oh.
[18:00] <knome> cp -R ...
[18:00] <knome> Unit193, no, not at all. wonder what the real problem is
[18:01] <jjfrv8> back to "too many levels of symbolic links"
[18:01] <knome> bah.
[18:02] <Unit193> knome: We should fix his pastebinit too! ;D
[18:02] <knome> i would suggest logging in again
[18:02] <knome> and retrying
[18:03] <Unit193> echo -e "<pastebinit>\n\t<pastebin>http://paste.openstack.org</pastebin>\n</pastebinit>" | tee .pastebinit.xml    :D
[18:03] <jjfrv8> logging in to lp or xubuntu?
[18:04] <knome> xubuntu
[18:04] <Unit193> knome: You found out he was running keyring?
[18:04] <knome> Unit193, no. but i suppose he is, becuase he gets the error of too many symlinks..
[18:05] <jjfrv8> output of ps -A | grep gnome-keyring = 2484 ?        00:00:00 gnome-keyring-d
[18:06] <knome> yeah, it's running
[18:06] <jjfrv8> logging off. bbs
[18:07] <Unit193> If not, we can always take patches.
[18:07] <knome> well meh.
[18:07] <knome> i would look at setting the key some other way next
[18:07] <Unit193> I just use the .ssh/config file, myself.
[18:07] <len-1310> Interesting thing happened on the way to installing the xubuntu daily... the installer doesn't seem to see all my drives in the install xubuntu beside other OS
[18:07] <Unit193> Host bazaar.launchpad.net IdentityFile  /home/unit193/keyfiles/launchpad.key User unit193
[18:08] <knome> Unit193, and you didn't mention that before? :)
[18:08] <jjfrv8> Where to now?
[18:08] <knome> jjfrv8, does the bzr command work now?
[18:08] <jjfrv8> WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /tmp/keyring-C9k5HO/pkcs11: No such file or directory
[18:08] <knome> Unit193, go ahead and tell about that magic trick.
[18:09] <Unit193> knome: Why would I think to do that?  I do everything backwards, what's the point of saying it? :P
[18:10] <len-1310> Tried using gparted on the live session to preshrink ... couldn't do the pe shrink disk check. Rebooted to already installed studio 13.10 and it works.
[18:10] <Unit193> so jjfrv8, I have http://paste.openstack.org/show/XAaW4Owt8KarkbdrRn1R in my ~/.ssh/config file to work with LP stuff, I'm not sure if I setup anything else too, or just that.
[18:11] <jjfrv8> I'm looking for that...
[18:12] <knome> jjfrv8, identityfile should be the id_rsa file you created earlier
[18:12] <Unit193> knome: You good telling him how?
[18:13] <knome> Unit193, sure
[18:14] <jjfrv8> Unit193, not sure what I should do there. Paste that string somewhere in that file, or replace the contents?
[18:15] <knome> jjfrv8, just a sec
[18:15] <Unit193> ~/.ssh/config exists already?  That's SSH config, so if you already setup some stuff, could easily just add it.
[18:15] <Unit193> Means I can do ssh zeta, or scp file zeta:pub<tab> :D
[18:15] <knome> Unit193, pub or priv?
[18:16] <jjfrv8> just two files there: ~/.ssh/id_rsa and id_rsa.pub
[18:16] <Unit193> pub<tab> > public_html
[18:16] <knome> Unit193, in .ssh/config
[18:16] <Unit193> knome: Sorry, private key.
[18:17] <knome> http://paste.openstack.org/show/37432/
[18:17] <knome> jjfrv8, create ~/.ssh/config and put that in the file
[18:17] <knome> Unit193, (correct?)
[18:17] <Unit193> Should be good.
[18:18] <Unit193> wget -O ~/.ssh/config http://paste.openstack.org/raw/37432/
[18:19] <jjfrv8> Do you want me to run that command?
[18:20] <knome> jjfrv8, if you already created the file, no need to :)
[18:20] <knome> jjfrv8, now that you have that set up...
[18:20] <knome> in the root directory, type:
[18:21] <knome> bzr push lp:~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/branchname
[18:22] <jjfrv8> knome, / or ~/bzr
[18:22] <knome> jjfrv8, in the xubuntu-docs directory
[18:23] <knome> jjfrv8, where you have the docs source
[18:24] <jjfrv8> It's doing something :)
[18:24] <jjfrv8> bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "(local)": file:///home/jack/bzr/xubuntu-docs/
[18:25] <knome> hmm..
[18:25] <knome> Unit193, any idea?
[18:25] <Unit193> bzr break-lock
[18:26] <jjfrv8> No new revisions or tags to push. 
[18:26] <jjfrv8> Worked?
[18:26] <Unit193> I fixed it! ;D
[18:26] <Unit193> :P
[18:26] <Unit193> You commited something?
[18:26] <Unit193> bzr log | less
[18:27] <knome> woo!
[18:27] <knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail
[18:27] <knome> it's pushed whatsoever
[18:27] <knome> jjfrv8, now do 'bzr commit' again with a commit message
[18:28] <knome> jjfrv8, then 'bzr push' (should remember the last push path)
[18:28] <jjfrv8> Okay
[18:28] <Unit193> I use bzr commit -m "Message here", this may not be normal.
[18:29] <knome> Unit193, it's fine, i'm too lazy to type -m and correct quotes
[18:29] <knome> and isn't as easy to do multiple line commit messages with that
[18:29] <jjfrv8> done?
[18:30] <jjfrv8> "Pushed up to revision 35."
[18:30] <knome> woo!
[18:31] <knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail
[18:31] <knome> aaaand https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/command-file-test
[18:31] <knome> now in that later page...
[18:31] <knome> we get to the real thing!
[18:31] <knome> there's a link "Propose for merging"
[18:32] <jjfrv8> I see it
[18:32] <knome> if you click that and fill in details, we get email telling jack wants to merge his fixes, and we're able to do easily!
[18:32] <Unit193> See??  I know exactly what I'm doing!
[18:32] <Unit193> :----D
[18:32] <knome> Unit193, most definitely! thank you sir!
[18:32] <Unit193> (Kidding, I'll troll on by somewhere else. :P )  Sure.
[18:32] <knome> jjfrv8, you can also define the target branch, but in most cases, it's the default
[18:33] <knome> jjfrv8, description for the change is ideally a list of changes you've done (can be a copy from commit messages)
[18:34] <jjfrv8> Okay. I added a description and clicked Propose Merge.
[18:34] <knome> great
[18:34] <knome> now it created: https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/command-file-test/+merge/164599
[18:34] <knome> and now we can see the diff in that page too, so it's easy enough to review and merge from our side
[18:36] <knome> jjfrv8, but at this point, you've done what you need to do
[18:36] <jjfrv8> Okay. I'll have to save these logs so I can retrace the steps and play around with it to get familiar.
[18:36] <knome> let's briefly go through the process again (you can skip several steps usually):
[18:36] <Unit193> I have to fix more docs now, don't I?  :(
[18:37] <knome> 1) bzr pull
[18:37] <knome> this gets the latest sources
[18:37] <knome> 2) do your changes to the files
[18:37] <Unit193> jjfrv8: We're nice enough here to help if you run into more problems, just one of us doesn't speak English.  >_>
[18:37] <jjfrv8> Who me?
[18:37] <knome> 3) bzr add .  (if you added any new files, which you usually aren't doing)
[18:37] <knome> 4) bzr commit
[18:38] <knome> this commits the changes to your local repository (remember to use meaningful and accurate messages)
[18:38] <knome> 5) bzr push
[18:38] <knome> this pushes the changes to your own repository
[18:39] <knome> 6) in launchpad, go click the "Propose for merging" link and fill in details
[18:39] <knome> 7) you're done!
[18:39] <knome> (as you can see, we used a lot of the time fixing/doing one-off things, so it's usually much much easier)
[18:40] <knome> and as Unit193 said... feel free to ask if you have questions :) and i'm sure he referred to himself... such a humble guy
[18:40] <jjfrv8> So all the login and whoami stuff should not need to be repeated?
[18:41] <jjfrv8> Yes, knome, Unit193 , thanks for you patience. I hope I can repay it by saving you some work down the road.
[18:41] <knome> jjfrv8, no. they are saved locally
[18:41] <jjfrv8> Cool.
[18:41] <knome> jjfrv8, no problem! i don't know if you noticed it, but i said you are a good candidate to the xubuntu-team in the future if you keep contributing
[18:41] <Unit193> Yeah, I'm the native English speaker, but have problems with getting my meaning across. :P
[18:42] <jjfrv8> knome, yes, saw that. I'm honored.
[18:42] <Unit193> knome: Do I know him from something else?
[18:42] <knome> jjfrv8, with this rate, i have no problems doing that rather sooner than later :)
[18:42] <Unit193> jjfrv8: That's great!  You can replace me now. : D
[18:43] <knome> Unit193, so that means you'll have more time for other things? awesome!
[18:43] <Unit193> :P
[18:43] <knome> i'm more or less afk now, but will check irc
[18:43] <lderan> ok
[18:43] <jjfrv8> Thanks again.
[18:44] <knome> jjfrv8, have you thought of getting an irc 'screen'?
[18:44] <jjfrv8> Not familiar with that.
[18:44] <knome> jjfrv8, talk about that with us later. that would be helpful for you and us :)
[18:44] <jjfrv8> Sure.
[18:44] <Unit193> What client do you use?
[18:45] <knome> that's because most of the development discussion happens in irc, and that way you wouldn't miss any messages
[18:45] <knome> anyway, now afk :)
[18:45] <jjfrv8> Unit193, XChat.
[18:45] <knome> thanks jjfrv8 and do not hesitate to ask!
[18:45] <knome> :)
[18:45] <knome> -->
[18:45] <Unit193> knome: He'd have to have a ZNC.
[18:46] <knome> any solution is fine by me
[18:46] <knome> ->
[19:08] <knome> i'm back if you need me
[19:09] <knome> jjfrv8, re: the merge itself, i would ask pleia2 for her opinion on the capitalization; we're referring to terminal emulators generally, so i'm not sure if the capitalization is needed/correct
[19:10] <jjfrv8> Well it wasn't a real edit. I just had to pick something easy and quick.  I think you can discard the whole thing if you want.
[19:15] <knome> okay :)
[19:18] <jjfrv8> knome, but how would that work in real life?  Say you wanted to reject some percentage of the changes I proposed but keep others.  Would you just do that from your end?
[19:19] <knome> most probably yes, or submit the merge request for fixing
[19:19] <knome> if i did the latter, you'd get an email with my comments on how i would like you to fix it
[19:19] <jjfrv8> OK.
[19:20] <knome> that's why it's generally better to file one merge request for one set of changes
[19:20] <knome> (not for each tiny change but a changeset that makes sense)
[19:20] <jjfrv8> Got it.
[19:20] <knome> that's one reason you might want to pull several copies of the docs
[19:21] <knome> (in that case, every time you do bzr push, remember to add a new push location)
[19:22] <knome> everything that's under your account is also refetchable, so it might be cleaner for you to simply pull the source again every time you work on a new thing
[19:22] <knome> but that's totally up to you how you want to organize it
[19:22] <knome> and oh, one more thing
[19:23] <knome> once we've merged a branch or decided we don't need it anymore, or you decide you don't want to propose merging anyway, you can delete the branch from LP
[19:23] <jjfrv8> Which is what I should have done in this case?
[19:23] <knome> just go to, say, https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/command-file-test and on the right hand side
[19:23] <knome> doesn't matter, you're free to keep the branches
[19:24] <knome> and it doesn't matter if you did the merge request
[19:24] <knome> it's ok since i could communicate with you about it
[19:24] <knome> and it's good that you tried to do it
[19:26] <knome> since everything is revertable, you shouldn't worry about doing "stupid" things with branches
[19:26] <knome> if you break it, you can either fix it or start again
[19:27] <jjfrv8> Good to know because I'm sure there will be a lot of that in the beginning.
[19:29] <knome> i would imagine the only place where it is easy to go wrong is the push location
[19:29] <knome> but you'll notice if you do that; if you push to the wrong location, you won't be able to make a merge request
[19:30] <knome> and since you don't have push permissions to lp:xubuntu-docs, you can't really mess anything up
[19:31] <Unit193> I normally put everything in +junk.
[19:32] <knome> Unit193, you're not able to do merge requests from there, are you?
[19:32] <knome> at least that hasn't been working for me at time
[19:32] <knome> *times
[19:33] <jjfrv8> Okay. I'm looking over the launchpad pages to get oriented. It's all pretty unfamiliar right now.
[19:33] <knome> well again, feel free to ask
[19:33] <knome> i rather guide you through things than leave you in the darkness wondering about things
[19:33] <Unit193> Think not, but not normally looking to.
[19:34] <knome> Unit193, mhm. for ubuntu packages you need to push to lp:~user/ubuntu/package/branchname...
[19:34] <knome> Unit193, go figure that out if you don't know you need to do that...
[19:35] <Unit193> It'll show up on the code page, and I don't want that. :P
[19:35] <knome> heh
[19:35] <knome> there are definitely situations when you don't want that. but when you want to merge something...
[19:38]  * Unit193 thinks some people would call him anti-open source, he dosen't think he is. :P
[19:39] <knome> one could say you are if you didn't push back to launchpad.
[19:47] <Unit193> To launchpad precisely? ;)  (Anyway, I moved to offtopic, because I'm offtopic.)
[19:51] <jjfrv8> knome, I've gotta go but I'll start playing around with the process to familiarize myself and ping you with questions.
[19:52] <jjfrv8> first one is: objective is to compare current R to docs to early builds of S to see how they match up?
[20:12] <phillw> knome: and every one else (!), regarding Lubuntu Software Centre's name. Julien has no issues (I knew he would not) in renaming it to Light Software Centre if either xubuntu or ubuntu-studio wish to make use of it, or for that matter any other team :)
[20:13] <knome> phillw, good news
[20:13] <phillw> I will continue to be nice to Jorg so we have a progammer looking after it :)
[20:13] <knome> yup
[20:14] <knome> FYI everybody, i'll be off tomorrow and monday
[20:14] <knome> will be evacuating to the summer cottage :)
[20:14] <knome> sauna + other nice things
[20:14] <phillw> as it is really a hook into apt, now the bug that affected lubuntu has been resolved; it is more a case of seeing what other minor bugs need resolving.
[20:15] <knome> yup
[20:15] <knome> have you prepared a testcase for that?
[20:15] <phillw> knome: enjoy your break.. I went AFK last weekend, read some books that were long overdue to be read :D
[20:16] <knome> thanks, will do
[20:16] <knome> i'm also planning to take even more time off later
[20:17] <phillw> I'll write up a manual test case once Julien is happy with the patch and it is confirmed as okay in Saucy which would allow an SRU to be raised.
[20:17] <knome> great
[20:18] <phillw> he just cannot devote time to the debugging / maintenance of it, but he more than happy to sponsor working patches etc.
[20:18] <knome> same with most people
[20:19] <phillw> indeed, I do appreciate that the MOTU's / devs on each of the flavours are always running at 100% of their available time.
[20:21] <phillw> my being a release manager for lubuntu has lessened that part of Julien's work-load.
[20:21] <knome> i understand
[20:27] <phillw> the 'fun' with GTK is causing some fun as the devs make QT versions, how is the affecting xubuntu?
[20:27] <phillw> s/the/this/
[20:27] <knome> we mostly have problems with things not supporting GTK2 any more and some xfce stuff being in GTK2 only
[20:35] <phillw> pcman has now got a version of pcmanfm in QT and I understand other of the lxde components are being cross developed over to QT. It was for this reason, I think, that Julien did not want to issue a 13.10 of Lubuntu. The news from Tech Board dropping the maintenance level to 9 months for DE's was an unexpected spoke in the works :/
[20:36] <phillw> But, hey, these things happen :P
[20:37] <knome> lubuntu is free to keep the support up to 18 months though
[20:37] <knome> it's just that the core won't be supported for more than 9 months
[20:39] <phillw> knome: we'd lose things like browser support which is not acceptable. 13.10 may just be a bit 'rough around the edges'. It will be stable, as it is built on 'core' stuff. Just not all the lxde apps may be without bugs. The devs are trying to cross develop in GTK3 and QT at the same time... this is stretching us pretty thin !
[20:39] <knome> i understand
[20:42] <phillw> with what is happening with xcfe and GTK, I'm sure you guys are well aware of the problems!
[20:43] <knome> unfortunately :)
[20:48] <phillw> knome: I'm not sure if this is of help to xubuntu, but pcman has a blog on GTK / QT stuff at http://blog.lxde.org/
[20:50] <phillw> damn, he's good!
[20:50] <knome> who is?
[20:51] <phillw> pcman :) not only a skilled surgeon but darn good dev who is happy to document up things and not just go "I converted this".
[20:52] <knome> heh
[20:55] <phillw> the GTK part of pcmanfm (and possibly other stuff) is now being looked after by  andriy
[20:59] <phillw> I can forward you the email thread on what is going on re: GTK3 / Qt if you wish
[21:00] <knome> i think i've seen enough of it for npw
[21:00] <knome> *now
[21:01] <phillw> okies :)
[21:07] <ochosi> knome: hf@cottage then
[21:08] <knome> ochosi, will do :)
[21:10] <ochosi> knome: btw, who said pavucontrol was different in 13.10?
[21:10] <ochosi> cause i just looked and it's simply not there yet: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pavucontrol&searchon=names&suite=saucy&section=all
[21:10] <len-x> me but not sure hwen the change happened
[21:11] <ochosi> hm, strange
[21:11] <Unit193> !info pavucontrol saucy
[21:11] <ochosi> ubottu fail :)
[21:11] <len-x> It could have been last version when version 2.1 (I think) of PA was released
[21:12] <len-x> In other words it may be a difference in PA and not pavucontrol.
[21:12] <ochosi> the pavucontrol website says that 2.0 has been released in march
[21:12] <ochosi> that would've been early enough for R, if anyone cared
[21:12] <len-x> We would have.
[21:12] <len-x> (Studio)
[21:13] <ochosi> (R still has 1.0)
[21:13] <len-x> We had other issues
[21:13] <ochosi> so anyway, checking the gitlog, there are no real changes that justify a 2.0 release
[21:14] <len-x> This one doesn't have an about... The changes may have been in pa and not the controler
[21:16] <len-x> pavucontrol would expose whatever inputs or outputs it can find and so if pa doesn't expose the application outputs pavucontrol wouldn't show them.
[21:19] <len-x> pavucontrol is still 1.0 in 13.10.
[21:20] <len-x> ochosi, do you know much about the menus/settings manager?
[21:21] <ochosi> hm, so wait, pavucontrol doesn't look different in 13.10 then?
[21:21] <ochosi> i mean the tabs and everything are still the sameß
[21:21] <ochosi> what menus/settings-man are you referring to exactly?
[21:22] <len-x> Yes. the only difference is the options available in the dropdown chooser for  in/outputs.
[21:22] <ochosi> ok
[21:22] <len-x> xubuntu has some apps in the settings manager that would seem to be expected in the system menu.
[21:22] <ochosi> right
[21:23] <ochosi> that depends on what the .desktop file has set as categories
[21:23] <ochosi> you can change that e.g. with menulibre quite easily
[21:23] <len-x> gparted (on live), software updater, install xubuntu.
[21:24] <ochosi> either, this is not the real git repo of pavucontrol or the ppl releasing v2.0 are morons: http://git.0pointer.de/?p=pavucontrol.git
[21:24] <len-x> Ok, no I am not going to worry about that :)
[21:24] <ochosi> i'd say file a bugreport about that and we can discuss it
[21:24] <ochosi> changing that should be easy
[21:24] <len-x> pavucontrol is v1.0 pulseaudio is 2.*
[21:25] <len-x> I am only asking because ubuntustudio is thinking of building our xfce desktop directly on the xubuntu-desktop meta
[21:25] <ochosi> this suggests otherwise: http://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/pavucontrol/
[21:25] <len-x> I am trying to decide how hard that would be
[21:26] <len-x> Your right. I wonder where we had pa 2 from.
[21:27] <ochosi> depends on what you really wanna override from xubuntu i guess
[21:27] <len-x> synaptic says 1:3.0 does that mean version 1 or version 3.0?
[21:27] <ochosi> not sure :)
[21:27] <len-x> (for pulse)
[21:28] <Unit193> 1: means someone goofed in the packaging at one point, 3.0 is right.
[21:28] <Unit193> Epoch is the real term.
[21:28] <ochosi> righty
[21:28] <len-x> Ya I thought so the PA mailing list is talking about preparing v4
[21:29] <len-x> So PA is 3.0 and pavucontrol is 1.0
[21:29] <ochosi> in ubuntu
[21:29] <ochosi> but in fact pavucontrol is 2.0
[21:29] <len-x> Ya, also in xubunu
[21:30] <len-x> I am running todays daily.
[21:31] <len-x> synaptic lists the package installed as 1.0-1
[21:32] <ochosi> yeah, according to git there have been no new commits since 1.0
[21:38] <ochosi> len-x: so here's the up-to-date git-repo of pavucontrol: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pavucontrol/log/
[21:40] <len-x> They must do rock and roll... support volumes up to 11...
[21:40] <ochosi> anyway, trying to compile that now...
[21:41] <ochosi> hmpf
[21:41] <ochosi> devicewidget.cc: In member function ‘void DeviceWidget::onOffsetChange()’:
[21:41] <ochosi> devicewidget.cc:150:70: error: ‘pa_context_set_port_latency_offset’ was not declared in this scope
[21:41] <ochosi> great
[21:42] <len-x> pavucontrol talks to pa via dbus?
[21:42] <len-x> So a replacement just has to know what pa expects via dbus
[21:43] <ochosi> meh, v2.0 has the same build error :(
[22:17] <bluesabre> ochosi, did you try a apt-get build-dep pavucontrol
[22:17] <ochosi> bluesabre: ofc
[22:17] <ochosi> and hi ;)
[22:17] <bluesabre> I managed to build 0.2 the other day
[22:17] <bluesabre> I mean 2.0
[22:17] <ochosi> hm, grmbpf
[22:17] <ochosi> i need to upgrade to raring i suppose
[22:18] <ochosi> and i'd even do that here and now, but the stupid update-manager only shows "upgrade" stuff when you installed all updates
[22:18] <bluesabre> change all your apt from quantal to raring and then dist-upgrade?
[22:19] <ochosi> yeah, maybe i'll just do it the old way
[22:31] <knome> we've got meetingology output fixed \o/
[22:31] <knome> brb
[22:32] <lderan> \o/
[22:32] <ochosi> congrats!
[23:39] <Unit193> lderan: Thanks!
[23:39] <lderan> :D