[04:29] <len-x> hmm the difference between xubuntu and lubuntu is 43.3%
[06:00] <len-1310> zequence, I looked at lubuntu. The processes running are almost the same as with xfce. I wonder how much cpu/memory it actually saves
[06:01] <len-1310> I don't know if it has enough differences from xfce to warrant a studio meta for it.
[06:02] <len-1310> I'll have to play with it a bit.
[06:04] <len-1310> It feels old... almost like twm from before fvwm. But at least it follows xdg standards
[14:27] <smartboyhw> len-1310 (C.C. zequence): Since you (a.k.a. len-1310) are awake, Bug 1181762 should be good for you.
[14:32] <len-1310> smartboyhw, Ok I see it.
[14:33] <len-1310> I am assigned.
[14:34] <smartboyhw> len-1310: Thanks!
[14:37] <smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia, how's the merchandise art?
[14:40] <madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw, we work on it.
[14:40] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Great!
[14:40] <smartboyhw> zequence: The website looks better now.
[14:41] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : ) 
[15:01] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : I think if everything is ok, the products will be online this week.
[15:02] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: \o/
[15:03] <smartboyhw> len-1310: You need a # for the bug number in the blueprint;P
[15:04] <Len-nb> smartboyhw, Why?
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: As in Ubuntu changelogs:P
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Anyways, it's just trivial
[15:05] <smartboyhw> *Ubuntu package changelogs
[15:05] <Len-nb> Is there something that auto reads them and changes something or os it just for human readers?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Probably in places like status.ubuntu.com
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: I will change it:)
[15:06] <Len-nb> I think it is right in the change log... it auto added the bug link
[15:06] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Awesome
[15:07] <smartboyhw> We need micahg to upload though
[15:07] <Len-nb> I don't think there is a great hurry though.
[15:07] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Yep
[15:10] <Len-nb> There are some more settings changes coming ... I am going to work at making the studio menu customization work for all the DEs
[15:10] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: \o/
[15:11] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : Interesting. Huge work I think.
[15:12] <Len-nb> smartboyhw, I looked at lubuntu yesterday. It doesn't look that much lighter than xfce
[15:12] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Oh really?
[15:12] <smartboyhw> On stats it is…
[15:13] <Len-nb> ps x  shows almost all the same stuff running as xfce
[15:13] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Heh
[15:13] <Len-nb> It did feel a bit snappier
[15:13] <Len-nb>  But the DE "looks" old... like twm from the early 90s
[15:14] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Heh
[15:14] <Len-nb> I actually prefer fvwm with the motif style window decorations
[15:14] <Len-nb> (later 90s, but still active development)
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Better than those GNOME 2 forks
[15:16] <Len-nb> I think we made the right choice to have drive auto mount off by default. Try using gparted in xubuntu...
[15:16] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:16] <Len-nb> G2 is dead  think. xfce is the best replacement.
[15:17] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: There are still forks like MATE.
[15:17] <Len-nb> Better to take G3 and make it look more G2ish
[15:18] <smartboyhw> Those who liked GNOME 2 are just traditional and unmodern
[15:18] <Len-nb> As the libs change the maintenance costs go up... manpower wise.
[15:19] <Len-nb> I'm traditional too. If fvwm used xdg standards I would probably use it :)
[15:20] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : I am not sure of that. Gnome 2 was / is a great development step. Now there are people who also don't like Gnome 3 because he's less easy to "customize".
[15:20] <Len-nb> "Modern" that I can see is like clothes fashion... chnage for the sake of change
[15:21] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Because the devs are strange, they don't allow people's feature requests
[15:21] <Len-nb> The function of X/windows/OSx has changed very little in usability since xerox first developed it.
[15:22] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : Agree, new don't means nothing, and change for the change is typical commercial thought. (I simplify, of course)
[15:22] <Len-nb> Mostly window dressing
[15:22] <smartboyhw> I rather like modern
[15:23] <smartboyhw> And for me, GNOME 2 is ugly.
[15:23] <smartboyhw> MS Windows-liked
[15:23] <Len-nb> I would say that is somewhat cultural :) (not a put down)
[15:24] <Len-nb> My enjoyment of traditional is probably cultural too
[15:24] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: We Chinese are very traditional
[15:25] <Len-nb> New artwork for a new release is nice.
[15:25] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Basically, on Linux DE, ugly means nothing as ALL is graphically strictly modulable. I invite you to take a look on community screenshots on deviant-art for see that gnome 2 can be awesome.
[15:25] <Len-nb> not with technology
[15:26] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw, Len-nb : Creativity is open, as the rest, on Linux DE : )
[15:26] <Len-nb> Yup
[15:26] <smartboyhw> Tech constantly evolves and as tht happens, old ones should get disbandes
[15:26] <smartboyhw> *disbanded
[15:27] <Len-nb> I think xfce is a good compromise as a default DE for a development platform like studio.
[15:27] <Len-nb> smartboyhw, :)
[15:27] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: It is modern and has menus:)
[15:27] <smartboyhw> That's why it works
[15:28] <smartboyhw> KDE is the 2nd best alternative
[15:28] <smartboyhw> I don't see why people like Unity in Studio
[15:28] <Len-nb> I'm going to leave that one alone... lets just say I feel different about some of it at least.
[15:28] <smartboyhw> They do though
[15:28] <Len-nb> And then have trouble
[15:28] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : So we have to make a difference about what we're talking about, code is code and its indeed a perpetual run on improvement. The question of design is completely independent of that.
[15:28] <Len-nb> Yes
[15:29] <smartboyhw> madeinkovaia: No.
[15:29] <smartboyhw> *madeinkobaia
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Design also evolves
[15:29] <smartboyhw> And old things should get disbanded
[15:29] <Len-nb> But not necessarily improve
[15:29] <smartboyhw> That's what makes the world great, we take in new thinfs
[15:30] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: Well, GNOME 3 is much better than GNOME 2 I think
[15:30] <Len-nb> However if the tech behind design does not keep up then design has to change to use what is available
[15:31] <smartboyhw> Len-nb: You mean the code of GNOME 3 is outdated?
[15:31] <Len-nb> I found G3 hard. and slower
[15:31] <smartboyhw> Or?
[15:31] <smartboyhw> Well anyways, we are better off with Xfce:P
[15:31] <Len-nb> I mean the code for G2 is not going to be maintained
[15:32] <Len-nb> so G2 will go sooner or later
[15:32] <Len-nb> Right now G2 has all the stuff it needs still hanging around so it is easy to fork.
[15:33] <Len-nb> But updating the whole thing to new libs as they come out is a lot of work and the g2 fork community is a lot smaller than the gnome community
[15:33] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : I am (humbly) very interesting in design. What can I tell you for sure is that Apple, as Google or even Microsoft on windows 8 have nothing invented in terms of design. Most of them recipes comes from basing design approach who comes them self from for example the Bauhaus (1919-1933 ! )
[15:34] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Meh, I need to sleep soon, can we stop debating?
[15:34] <Len-nb> The De really just starts and places apps.
[15:34] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : In art or design, nothing can be improved or create anymore. Sorry ; ) Just things that people cleverly adapt now on computing world.
[15:35] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia: Disagree
[15:35] <smartboyhw> But can we stop?
[15:35] <smartboyhw> It's 23:35 here
[15:35] <Len-nb> GN smartboyhw 
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Good night Len-nb and madeinkobaia…
[15:36] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw : Goodnight smartboyhw.
[15:38] <Len-nb> It is interesting, most of the time the computer does very little for the user. That is why new DEs can use lots of CPU
[15:39] <Len-nb> The average user does lots of web stuff and the connection is very slow compared to the cpu availability. People type slowly too.
[15:46] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : As I am not developer I am not sure to be really able to understand where the resources demands are dispatching on the system. I still don't understand why for example KDE 3x use to need the double of resource of Gnome 2.x. (I mean an average : ram+processor). Applications on startups ? Graphicall needs on the GPU...?
[15:54] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : Well no needs answers, sorry for the tricky question. Just a thought that also half of the planet don't have even 512 mo of ram available and that we're are also here for think about that. I have nothing again KDE himself of course.
[15:55] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : KDE is really interesting, no problems on that.
[15:55] <len-1310> Sorry went to get food :)
[15:56] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : No problems :)
[15:56] <len-1310> Ya, I hear/read "this is 2013 we all have faster cpus and lots of ram"
[15:57] <len-1310> I can't aford to get new HW every two years
[15:57] <len-1310> I have a single core P4. over 10 years old
[15:57] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : Yep in around 20 country in the world its truth.
[15:58] <len-1310> I did get more Ram, I am up to 2.5 G
[15:58] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : Do you know which PC I use now for speak you ?
[15:58] <len-1310> ?
[16:01] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : a P4 processor (from 2003) 2,4 ghz with 768mo of ram :D And all my works as swiss clock. 
[16:02] <len-1310> Thats about what I have here. My bigest problem is the old nvidia graphics card
[16:04] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb : No problems by my side with the GC. I forget to say...I run Debian : )
[16:07] <len-1310> The graphics situation has been getting worse the last year or so. I am not sure if the apps are using more GPU calls or the driver is changing for new cards
[16:09] <madeinkobaia> Len-nb :  Those questions are tricky. I no have answers by my side too : (
[16:12] <len-1310> I should look for another card anyway. this one has bad capacitors and is begining to "streak"
[16:15] <madeinkobaia> Len-1310 : Yep, I think there's also a "lucky part" in getting a graphical card (independently of the OS). By my side I was lucky until now.
[16:17] <len-1310> Yup, anyway I need to go. Talk later
[16:18] <madeinkobaia> len-1310 :  See you :D
[16:18] <madeinkobaia> len-1310 :  Damn wrong emo...just a :) 
[16:20] <madeinkobaia> len-1310 :  Nice to speak with you mate.
[17:43] <leobian> hi
[17:46] <madeinkobaia> Hi leobian.
[17:46] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Could we help ?
[17:46] <leobian> i just made a dvd cover, derivative from the 9 version but for 13.04
[17:47] <leobian> should i post it under user contribution ?
[17:48] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Is it possible to see your work somewhere ? Have a link ?
[17:48] <leobian> i needed that for our install-party
[17:49] <leobian> ok, in a few minutes
[17:50] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Ok : )
[17:59] <leobian> hi
[18:01] <leobian> link is http://www.gard-linux.fr/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14
[18:16] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Sorry, was away. Could you wait a little.
[18:16] <madeinkobaia> zequence : ^
[18:17] <zequence> madeinkobaia: Yes, I saw it :)
[18:17] <zequence> leobian: You are talking with the right person when it comes to artwork. madeinkobaia is our art lead
[18:17] <zequence> I am project lead myself
[18:18] <leobian> so, ok
[18:18] <madeinkobaia> leobian : I will be back latter, if you need help for improve your cover don't hesitate to ask me : )
[18:19] <leobian> thanks, i'll try to; bye
[18:19] <zequence> It's well made. But, I note that the Ubuntu Studio specific elements are tiny bit outdated. Otherwise, it's really nice to see something specifically for Ubuntu Studio
[18:20] <zequence> I think we could consider adding stuff like this on our website, under a artwork page, but that would make it a bit more official, and I would at least welcome some feedback/discussion on that
[18:21] <leobian> you mean graphical chart specific for ubuntustudio ?
[18:22] <leobian> yes i did'nt use this
[18:22] <zequence> leobian: We could share some artwork on our website that can be used for different things, like CD covers, web banners, etc
[18:23] <zequence> In the long term there are plans for new unified art work, maybe for the 14.04 release
[18:23] <zequence> So, until then, the directions aren't as clear
[18:23] <leobian> it's only proposed to fill a gap under user artwork for current version https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/UserContributed
[18:23] <zequence> But, if we do add stuff to the main website, I would like it if all concerned parties feel it is as good as we like it to be
[18:24] <leobian> and should be removed at any time
[18:24] <leobian> ok, i understand
[18:24] <zequence> leobian: Would you be interesting in developint this further?
[18:24] <zequence> developing*
[18:26] <leobian> why not but don't many time nor great ideas about that; i'm not a graphic creator
[18:26] <leobian> don't have*
[18:33] <zequence> leobian: I'm sure that madeinkobaia would have some input to that. Also, he could assist in polishing details if needed. If you like doing this, I think it's worth a shot
[18:34] <leobian> ok; so now, what to do ?
[18:36] <zequence> leobian: Well, one thing you might want to try is using the Ubuntu font, which is what we have been using for the logo recently. But, really, madeinkobaia is the guy to speak about this
[18:37] <zequence> Come to think of it, I think we have some material that could be used for this already, that is used for our social banners
[18:38] <leobian> yes, good idea to use the Ubuntu font; but a problem was to use simultaneously the raring tail logo with the ubuntustudio one
[18:39] <zequence> Yes, that is a new concept for me, using the animal art with Ubuntu Studio
[18:39] <zequence> So, the question is, should we perhaps skip that?
[18:39] <madeinkobaia> leobian : You're Jean-Daniel from the gard-linux  site ? I ask, like that we could contact you easily.
[18:39] <leobian> yes tht's right
[18:40] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Ok, nice to meet.
[18:42] <leobian> likewise
[18:45] <madeinkobaia> leobian : The graphical elements related to Ubuntu Studio are outdated (old logo and text version). Not your fault. We have to update the communication about our actual graphical standards. 
[18:45] <madeinkobaia> zequence : ^
[18:51] <leobian> zequence : my preference goes to associate animal art with UbuntuStudio
[18:55] <madeinkobaia> leobian : By "animal art" you mean to use the 13.04 Ubuntu official mascot (the ringtail logo) ?
[18:57] <leobian> yes that's right
[19:02] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Ok, If you're agree, I could work on your DVD cover and (with keeping your good original composition), try to improve it and update the graphical elements according to our actual standards. After we could see what to do.
[19:04] <leobian> it's ok for me; should i send you the gimp file ?
[19:07] <madeinkobaia> leobian : For sure at : madeinkobaia@ubuntustudio.org 
[19:15] <madeinkobaia> leobian : Ok stay in touch and thanks for contribute to Ubuntu Studio.
[19:16] <leobian> i'll send you soon; good bye