[18:13]  * seattlegaucho .oO( valorie's blog was worth reading ... along with the video)
[19:35] <bkerensa> valorie: you have a chance to read Jono's blog post?
[23:05] <valorie> I looked it over, but not in depth, no
[23:06] <valorie> my impression was that he sort of missed the point
[23:06] <valorie> being defensive is what is causing the rift
[23:06] <valorie> and publicly calling out you and mark: Not Cool
[23:07] <valorie> I specifically didn't call out anyone, or called out everyone, depending on how you look at it
[23:08] <valorie> I got a chance to listen to the /community session last night and love the concept
[23:09] <valorie> it's exactly what we are doing with our kubuntu docs: putting only what is necessary, and linking to everything else
[23:11] <bkerensa> valorie: so yeah I agree
[23:11] <bkerensa> valorie: while at the same time I wish he would tone down on that video
[23:12] <bkerensa> valorie: CoC does not mean that he gets to use it to censor private sharing or discussions I have
[23:12] <bkerensa> thats not the intent of the CoC... well not the version I signed anyways
[23:13] <valorie> the whole point is that we need to be open about the issues
[23:13] <valorie> being defensive etc. kills the trust
[23:14] <valorie> the customer isn't always right, but when they are dissatisfied, the one thing you know is that you have a problem
[23:14] <valorie> they are acting like their fingers are in their ears while they sing la-la-la
[23:15] <valorie> anyway, I don't want to complain, because that doesn't help
[23:15] <valorie> sorry
[23:15] <valorie> I like that we are paring down the bureaucracy
[23:16] <valorie> but I'm a bit scared that the leadership meetings will be used to go around the governance committees
[23:16] <valorie> I would find that Not Cool
[23:23] <bkerensa> well the leadership meetings are supposed to be compromised of the governance
[23:23] <bkerensa> I sat one one of the first ones
[23:24] <bkerensa> and basically Jono promised more transparency and telling us about stuff
[23:24] <bkerensa> then this all happened
[23:24] <bkerensa> and when I remind him
[23:24] <bkerensa> yes the fingers in ears la-la-la
[23:25] <valorie> there are procedures for open-ness
[23:25] <valorie> mail lists, blogs, the gov. committees
[23:26] <valorie> what isn't open is doing everything behind closed doors, and then yelling 'surprise' and expecting everyone to be pleased and happy
[23:26] <bkerensa> true enough
[23:26] <valorie> or worse, saying nothing
[23:27] <valorie> and expecting everyone to intuit that it's all gonna be OK
[23:27] <bkerensa> You know at LFNW we discussed me getting some harsh PM's
[23:27] <bkerensa> well
[23:27] <bkerensa> when I saw that post
[23:27] <bkerensa> I was like... really going to bring up disrespect and CoC? After the PM's I got from people at Canonical?
[23:27] <bkerensa> come on now
[23:28] <bkerensa> its like calling the kettle black
[23:28] <bkerensa> The pot calling the kettle black*
[23:28] <valorie> indeed, but that's the point
[23:29] <valorie> they do not see the things they said as equivalent
[23:29] <valorie> that's what privilege does to you
[23:29] <valorie> it blinds you
[23:29] <bkerensa> yeah
[23:29] <bkerensa> I'm not saying I'm perfect
[23:29] <bkerensa> nor saying that whole video thing was ok
[23:29] <bkerensa> but
[23:30] <bkerensa> lets not point fingers especially so publicly 
[23:30] <bkerensa> when your own hands are not very clean of the same conduct
[23:30] <bkerensa> I really wanted to leave him a comment
[23:30] <bkerensa> but I knew it would come back full circle with more PM's or something
[23:30] <bkerensa> so idk
[23:30]  * bkerensa is going to go check on his soap
[23:30] <bkerensa> ;p
[23:32] <valorie> I'll comment eventually
[23:32] <valorie> no hurry; you notice how slowly I published the blog
[23:32] <valorie> i waited until I was calm, then sweated blood, then waited to publish