[04:44] <kotux> Hello, is there anyone attending open week tomorrow?
[05:50] <pitti> Good morning
[06:59] <jibel> good morning
[07:17] <Noskcaj> jibel, add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre please
[07:20] <Noskcaj> elfy, please add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
[07:21] <Noskcaj> everyone else, also add yourself to that page
[07:21] <elfy> what is it with youngsters handing out instructions - smartboyhw's good at that as well :)
[07:36] <Noskcaj> elfy, :) it was one of two work items i have this cycle.
[07:36]  * elfy puts on evil head then :)
[07:36] <Noskcaj> ?
[07:37]  * elfy refuses to do it so you don't finish your work items :p
[07:37] <elfy> who's giving you work items anyway?
[07:39] <Noskcaj> elfy, it appeared on the wiki, that and run a testdrive hackfest. this is what i get for living in australia (read: crappy timezone)
[07:39] <Noskcaj> so i assume balloons
[07:39] <elfy> lol
[07:39] <elfy> wonder what team it was that balloons thought he could give you things to do in
[07:40] <elfy> cos it's not Xubuntu - I have a huge list of things for you to do with regard to that :p
[07:42] <Noskcaj> elfy, it was the QA team, and i'm scared now.
[07:42] <elfy> :)
[07:43] <elfy> don't be - I'm not as bad as phillw would say I am :D
[07:44] <Noskcaj> he's not said anything about you yet, the only person who's spoken about people in xubuntu badly is ali, and only because they ignored him completely
[07:44] <Noskcaj> what is on the list of stuff for me to do?
[07:44] <Noskcaj> i only have 5 things to do so far
[07:45] <elfy> nothing yet :)
[07:47] <Noskcaj> my list 1. and 2. what balloons said, 3. testdrive classroom session, 4. get the anti-australia bugs fixed 5. i've already forgotten this one
[07:47] <elfy> :)
[07:48] <elfy> Noskcaj: added that elfy guy to the wiki
[07:49] <Noskcaj> yay
[07:49] <Noskcaj> now to get jibel, pitti, wxl and anyone else who i don't know
[07:50] <Noskcaj> i have to go to air force cadets now, bye
[07:50] <elfy> cya have a good time
[08:01] <xnox> balloons: am around now...
[09:45] <jibel> pitti, are you subscribed to autopkgtest-devel?
[09:45] <jibel> the mailing list I mean
[10:08] <pitti> jibel: no, I'm not
[10:09] <pitti> jibel: actually, you mean the debian list? I'm there, yes
[10:09] <jibel> pitti, I CCed you
[10:10] <pitti> jibel: yeah, I got your CC and the ML post
[10:11] <jibel> pitti, i am not subscribed to the list as it is almost only spam
[14:01] <balloons> gl phillw
[14:02] <balloons> xnox, ahh if your still about, I was wondering if you had merged the changes needed to have autopilot be able to introspect ubiquity yet or not?
[14:02] <xnox> balloons: not yet. first day back.
[14:03] <balloons> xnox, I figured since I didn't hear from you until now :-)
[14:03] <balloons> welcome back. Hope you had some nice time off
[14:06] <xnox> yeah, it was good.
[15:12] <kotux> Hey phillw
[15:12] <phillw> hi kotux
[15:13] <kotux> I finally had the chance to install lubuntu via alternate iso on my netbook
[15:13] <kotux> Just at the installation (i'm not done yet), I'm at the Software Selection screen
[15:14] <phillw> nice :)
[15:14] <kotux> As a prospective tester, I am not sure what are the essential software to install.
[15:15] <kotux> For instance, is all the server stuff - Basic Ubuntu server, OpenSSH server, DNS server, etc. - necessary for the end-user/tester?
[15:15] <phillw> nothing needed as of install. when it is up and running, you can have a look at using test-drive there has been a classroom session on it last cycle, but there have been some further updates and some of the classroom-sessions will be run / re-run to reflect those changes.
[15:16] <phillw> the defaults selected are all needed for running the desktop system.
[15:17] <kotux> There was nothing selected really, just all empty check boxes.  I ended up pressing enter to continue with the installation process. :/
[15:19] <kotux> phillw, btw, I liked the minimal installer.  The installation so far has been going smoothly.
[15:21] <phillw> kotux: I use the alternate all the time. It gets it tested, as most people will use the desktop version :)
[15:22] <kotux> nice, I'll probably do the same.
[15:23] <kotux> Ok, my netbook screen went blank, and I'm guessing the installation is done. Is this supposed to happen? Would it be safe to restart the computer now?
[15:28] <phillw> hmm, what was the last thing on the screen before it went black?
[15:30] <elfy> you sure it's not a screensaver
[15:30] <kotux> nope, i was in the middle of an alternate install
[15:31] <phillw> kotux: where had it gotten to?
[15:31] <kotux> I restarted it, and it showed two error messages, that my swap partitions weren't found.  I believe the installation failed at the last minute.
[15:32] <kotux> Right now, my computer is hanging at the loading screen. :-(
[15:33] <phillw> kotux: try CTRL + ALT + F1 see if that gives you a terminal
[15:35] <kotux> It gives me a blinking cursor without my username@hostname
[15:35] <kotux> The following error messages are: "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/kimtux--vg-swap_1 is not ready yet or not present."
[15:36] <phillw> hmm, seems the install died. did you ask for LVM creation?
[15:36] <kotux>  "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present.
[15:36] <kotux> yes
[15:36] <kotux> How did it die? :)
[15:37] <phillw> idk, did you use the self-check on the install iso?
[15:38] <kotux> self-check?
[15:38] <phillw> when you boot with the installer, it gives an option to self check.
[15:39] <phillw> this ensures the install media does not have a corruption on it.
[15:40]  * kotux is self-checking
[15:41] <kotux> There was a defect after all: ./install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/pxelinux.cfg default file failed the MD5 checksum verification
[15:41] <phillw> it's always wise to run the self check before installing. just one tiny file corruption can leave you with a (very) poorly system.
[15:41] <kotux> good thing it didn't finish either.
[15:42] <phillw> yup, that corruption is in the installer system and most likely why it died part way through.
[15:43] <phillw> before you re-create the installer media, do an md5checksum on the iso you downloaded to check it is not corrupt.
[15:44] <phillw> the md5's are listed at http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu/raring/release/MD5SUMS (it's the one I remember in my head).
[15:44] <phillw> but will also be on where you got the iso from
[15:45] <kotux> So how exactly do I do a md5checksum?
[15:45] <phillw> kotux: is the iso on a *buntu machine?
[15:46] <kotux> yes
[15:46] <phillw> start a terminal session, and cd to the directory the iso is in
[15:47] <phillw> if do an
[15:47] <phillw> ls *iso
[15:47] <phillw> it should list the file for you.
[15:47] <phillw> *if you do*
[15:50] <kotux> yeah
[15:50] <phillw> md5sum *iso
[15:51] <phillw> that will generate the md5 checksum which MUST match the one in the table
[15:51] <kotux> ok
[15:52] <kotux> if the file was corrupted, would the md5sum still match the table's?
[15:52] <phillw> if they do not match, you will need to re-download. If there is a corruption the md5sum will NOT match the table :)
[15:52] <kotux> wow, that's neat
[15:57] <kotux> whoa, I need to get something straight;  I believe lubuntu's testing effort is on Ubuntu 13.10.
[15:58] <phillw> kotux: indeed, but at this stage, it is usual to test on  a virtual machine running on 13.04 :)
[15:58] <kotux> 13.04  *buntu?
[15:59] <phillw> the improvements made to testdrive make this easy for someone new to the world of testing, Yes, you can test any *buntu on any *buntu. We are all the same family :)
[16:02] <kotux> Surely, my Acer One on Intel Atom processor on Lubuntu can handle that!
[16:03] <phillw> it is one of the reasons I like lubuntu. It leaves enough resources for me to run virtual machines :)
[16:05] <kotux> Awesome
[16:06]  * kotux now will take a break by eating breakfast
[16:06] <phillw> and watch Nicholas's presentation :)
[16:07] <kotux> yeah
[16:07] <SergioMeneses> phillw, kotux take sit
[16:52] <melodie> hi
[16:57] <balloons> hello melodie
[16:57] <balloons> morning kotux
[16:57] <balloons> I think I'll have some food myself :-)
[16:58] <balloons> all this breakfest talk and typing works up the appetite
[16:59] <kotux> great session balloons
[16:59] <melodie> hi balloons
[17:00] <melodie> It would be difficult for me to get involved deeply here, but I would enjoy a discussion about eventual tests related to jobsadmin and the gtk app which goes along with it
[17:02] <balloons> jobsadmin.. hmm, I hadn't heard of it befor
[17:03] <balloons> melodie, are you involved in the project?
[17:04] <melodie> I am involved in another project : creating a very easy to go Ubuntu Openbox Remix, and the jobsadmin tool can't be used with efficiency, and as it's the only tool which misses quality I feel frustrated
[17:04] <balloons> thanks kotux I hope it was a helpful overview. Everytime I do something like that I always want to run to the wiki to make sure everything I said is laid out just as clear in there :-)
[17:04] <melodie> balloons I'll seek for the page of bug reports related to it and show you
[17:05] <melodie> If you are ok with that of course
[17:05] <balloons> hmm.. is it still actively developed?
[17:05] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/jobsadmin
[17:05] <melodie> it is available in the latest repos at least
[17:05] <melodie> and we do need a tool which allows us to manage comfortably the processes
[17:05] <melodie> let's put it this way:
[17:06] <melodie> Ubuntu is the distribution used by mostly average users, not only end users, and average users don't like to ramble into the docs to send some cryptic commands to the console, in order to create some "override" files, for processes they don't want to be started while booting
[17:06] <melodie> example:
[17:07] <melodie> I use printing once a while, and would like to be able to start it on the fly, but at times in the year I'll use it each day. so what I need is a gui tool easy to go to change the setup whenever I need. same for bluetooth, samba, whatever.
[17:08] <melodie> jobs admin is there for that purpose: however it does not work in a way which allows performing these operations.
[17:08] <melodie> in fact it's useless, which is a great pita
[17:08] <melodie> or pity... now sure how to say it
[17:11] <balloons> melodie, hmm.., Well, I'm unsure of why you would want to be changing the setup in that way
[17:12] <balloons> however upstart allows you to stop and start things, even applications now
[17:12] <balloons> that might be what your after
[17:14] <balloons> as far as jobsadmin and the issues your mentioning. If they are filed as bugs, the next step is for a developer to fix them.. then from a QA perspective you can iterate and test the fixes
[17:15] <melodie> balloons that is interesting
[17:15] <kotux> hey balloons, I have a netbook that I can dedicate as a lubuntu machine.  Do you recommend I testdrive the daily iso or dogfood it?  Either way I'm fine.
[17:15] <balloons> melodie, this may help explain a bit on your issue: http://askubuntu.com/questions/19320/whats-the-recommended-way-to-enable-disable-services
[17:15] <melodie> I finish a mail to someone and after I'll go check how the bug reports have moved forward or not moved at all
[17:16] <melodie> balloons no that does not help
[17:16] <balloons> ok ;-0
[17:16] <balloons> but here's the upstart link:
[17:16] <balloons> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[17:16] <melodie> we need an efficient tool, such as the one in Archlinux or in Fedora and co : something which allows dealing with services with one or two clicks after the root password is provided
[17:17] <balloons> kotux, both :-) hehe
[17:17] <balloons> I would grab a daily, install it and then dogfood
[17:17] <melodie> and this tool should manage upstart jobs as well as the classic init jobs still used for the time being
[17:17] <balloons> at some point you may wipe and re-install from a milestone image
[17:20] <kotux> balloons, that would mean I need backup skills
[17:21] <balloons> kotux, ahh.. if the machine isn't purely a testing machine, then yea, just dogfood :-)
[17:21] <balloons> upgrade and have at it
[17:21] <balloons> you can participate in all the new package testing that way too
[17:23] <phillw> kotux: one way to enable a part of this is to have a seperate /home partition. It is not a full guarantee, but if a test install borks completely you can use the manual format and mark it to be used as /home but mark it as NOT to be formatted ;)
[17:24] <balloons> melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc. However, if you don't want to use upstart, there are other tools
[17:24] <phillw> this was what I did when I borked my production machine after getting a bit carried away with tasksel (the software selector window you saw during your alternate install)
[17:25] <melodie> balloons upstart rules most of the jobs, so I don't think it is an option
 melodie, well again, I don't really get why your wanting to change services around, etc.
[17:25] <melodie> to spare resources
[17:25] <melodie> this is obvious if you have machines which age is bigger than... let's say, three of four years
[17:26] <balloons> melodie, anyways; http://superuser.com/questions/566248/services-manager-for-debian-to-change-whether-a-service-starts-onboot-or-not-my
[17:26] <melodie> having all services running when only a few are needed currently is a waste for the cpu and ram
[17:26] <kotux> How exactly do I create a separate home partition?  I have the alternate-install for entire disk.
[17:26] <kotux> phillw
[17:27] <balloons> melodie, I've run minimal installs.. I typically don't have any services running if it's that much a matter of life and death -- they aren't installed
[17:27] <phillw> kotux: fyi, it is feeding time here. I will reply to any posts after it. Setting up a /home needs a bit of pen, paper and basic maths to work out the best partitioning table for you.
[17:27] <balloons> the basic gnome services gui and bum I've seen and heard of before.. you can view the rest..
[17:27] <phillw> I'll be back in ~30 mins
[17:27] <kotux> k
[17:28] <balloons> kotux, yes a seperate home is nice, and I certainly advocate and use it. However if you don't seperate it out, ubiquity shouldn't wipe it out on a re-install
[17:28] <melodie> balloons : they aren't installed // this is not the option which fits best the needs of most people
[17:29] <kotux> balloons: i'm using alternate-install.
[17:30] <balloons> melodie, :-) I wish you the best. If your an advanced user you have many options. If your not it can be hard. I would advocate setting up a system that doesn't require that much knowledge burden on the user. But I wish you luck. It's not an easy problem
[17:33] <balloons> The post I linked contains all the suggestions I would have and then some. But I would caution you if you even need to the tool at all, as it sounds like your audience is non-technical. What's the name of your remix?
[17:38] <melodie> balloons Ubuntu Openbox Remix : code name Bento2
[17:39] <melodie> the presentation is unavailable right now, but will be again within a few days
[17:39] <melodie> all I can point to now is a few screenshots and the download space
[17:43] <melodie> balloons here are all the reports about bugs in jobs-admin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=jobs-admin&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&field.assignee=&field.bug_repor
[17:43] <melodie> ter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[17:44] <melodie> humm long url... :s
[17:44] <melodie> here is one where I added my own feedback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/917738
[17:46] <melodie> the guy who had done a new version fixing some bugs lost his webspace and never uploaded anew
[17:46] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/jobsadmin/+bug/705158/comments/12
[18:03] <phillw> hmm, now where'd he go? :D
[18:07] <balloons> lunch :-)
[18:10] <phillw> balloons: not you, but when you get back. Is there a central area that you can view both the video, irc and etherpad per session or is it now three links that need to be given?
[18:11] <balloons> phillw, the summit links are good..However, the pad is migrated to the blueprint whiteboard, so it isn't needed
[18:11] <balloons> I guess the answer is link to each summit.u.c page
[18:18] <balloons> melodie, I see the links. If there is no developer for jobsadmin, it's unsupported, and I wouldn't plan your remix around having the tool since it's buggy
[18:19] <balloons> basing off what you told me :-)
[18:19] <melodie> balloons for the time being this is how you say, however for the future, I think it would be good to spread the word about that tool and have the devs consider working on it
[18:34] <balloons> phillw, so I want to send something around about the classroom sessions today too
[18:44] <phillw> balloons: could you re-run the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10#Section_1 one on test cases? things have moved on a lot... possibly split it into bite size chunks for manual test cases / auto-pilot as classrooms or hackfests with introductions?
[18:44] <balloons> phillw, I wanted to have something to post to the mailing list that's a bit sane..
[18:44] <balloons> so people can signup for sessions, etc.. Can we just post a blank template for 13.10 and have folks fill in?
[18:45] <balloons> we can let them reference the old 13.04 session
[18:45] <balloons> hello DanChapman
[18:45] <balloons> as far as what I'll host.. Umm, I'd like to fill in I think and help people with there sessions
[18:46] <balloons> and I'll take what's leftover if there's something we feel needs attention and no one signed up. how's that sound?
[18:47] <DanChapman> Hey folks
[18:49] <balloons> DanChapman, I got your email. I'll send something along to you later. But feel free to ping me anytime :-)
[18:50] <balloons> If you missed this session I held this morning, look at the log. It should give you some nice background on the team and what's out there for you if you need it
[18:50] <phillw> balloons: I'm okay with the ones allocated to me on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 and also okay to be around with you when smartboyhw runs the 3.1 classroom. But the section 1 could do with being split, a lot happened last cycle :D
[18:50] <balloons> I trust your judgment :-) Mock up the page and I'll prep the mail to the list
[18:51] <DanChapman> balloons: ok that would be great, thanks. Im just reading through the log as we speak. I forgot the session was on. :(
[18:51] <balloons> DanChapman, it's planning time :-) Trying to plan classroom sessions, hackfests, and cadence testing :-)
[18:51] <balloons> hey, no worries.. we're always here, so fire away any questions you have
[18:54] <phillw> balloons: give me 90 mins... the only television programme i REALLY like is about to start (Stargate SG1) :D
[18:54] <balloons> phillw, hehe.. enough said. Enjoy yourself :-)
[19:33] <balloons> afternoon Letozaf_
[19:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi :D
[19:34] <balloons> Letozaf_, will the hackfest date work for you this week?
[19:34] <balloons> I know your dying to dig in :-)
[19:34]  * Letozaf_ is checking
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah you're right
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, I can dig in not from the beginning but I can be there
[19:36] <balloons> Letozaf_, excellent :-) Yea, you don't have to be there the WHOLE time :-p
[19:36] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D
[19:40] <DanChapman> i'll get in on a hackfest :D , what date are you thinking? so i can pencil it in
[19:41] <balloons> DanChapman, sent a mail to the list with the details (I hope!) ;-)
[19:41] <balloons> but it's this thursday for the first one
[19:41] <balloons> the one on june 4th and june 13th
[19:41] <balloons> *then
[19:43] <DanChapman> balloons: ok great :D. The list hasn't got round to me yet then :(. But will jot them down
[19:44] <balloons> Letozaf_, phillw, DanChapman Is this understandable to you? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy
[19:44] <balloons> for reference here's the one from last cycle: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring
[19:44]  * Letozaf_ is reading 
[19:45] <balloons> I'm mainly concerned with the schedule at the bottom :-) Does it look sane?
[19:45] <balloons> or is there too much detail from the release schedule on it
[19:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, for me it's clear and looks sane :D
[19:46] <balloons> DanChapman, here's the full details :-) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2013-May/003732.html
[19:47] <DanChapman> balloons, looks clear to me.
[19:47] <DanChapman> thanks
[19:47] <balloons> Letozaf_, DanChapman wow.. ok, I guess I'll leave it be
[19:47] <balloons> I kind of liked the old one better, but we shall see.
[19:47] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think it even better than the Raring one
[19:47] <balloons> :-p
[19:47] <balloons> good.. it's for you all, not me!
[19:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, :P sure!
[19:48] <balloons> I mean I use to also, but both make sense to me, so :-)
[20:09] <balloons> Letozaf, I've got one more thing for you to look at it you've got a moment
[20:09] <Letozaf> balloons, sure,
[20:10] <Letozaf> balloons, had a problem with my PC  :p
[20:11] <balloons> :-p
[20:11] <balloons> so, remember the cadence testing idea that was presented during vUDS?
[20:11] <balloons> basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created?
[20:12] <Letozaf> balloons, yes more or less :p
[20:12] <balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
[20:12] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds
[20:13]  * Letozaf is reading
[20:13] <balloons> and
[20:13] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
[20:14] <balloons> Letozaf, basically if you look it's showing the 2 ways we can do it
[20:14] <balloons> have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
[20:14] <balloons> the "magic" then is here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history
[20:14] <balloons> and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
[20:15] <balloons> essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc
[20:15] <balloons> so everytime a new version hits the archive you can see test results for it
[20:15] <balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
[20:16] <phillw> balloons: does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 look sane to you? The new ones and ones that have to be re-run are reset, you can ask if others want to re-run the classrooms from 13.04 with updates.
[20:16] <balloons> that's the basic idea.. so I mocked this up quickly, I trust it makes a little sense. I'd like to share it with everyone soon and see what they think of it, in comparision to the traditional way we did cadence testing last cycle
[20:17] <Letozaf> balloons, that maybe having a milestone for each package looks "more neat" and understandable to the "lumped all together one"
[20:18] <balloons> phillw, if you want to have a look as well, I'd be happy to hear your feedback, see the scrollback
[20:18]  * balloons is looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10
[20:18] <Letozaf> balloons,  its easier to see previous bugs and results for the package
[20:18] <balloons> Letozaf, ok, so you like each package being it's own milestone so you just get it's history
[20:18] <balloons> kk.. I think so too
[20:18] <Letozaf> balloons, yes!
[20:19] <Letozaf> balloons, very nice, good job :D
[20:19] <phillw> balloons: I've got 3 hours, I hope others will step up to mark and allocate time for the other areas :)
[20:19] <balloons> phillw, looks good.. uou need to edit out the old day and times though :)
[20:20] <phillw> balloons: ah, 3.5 hours!
[20:20] <phillw> balloons: the lesson on, say, zsync is still valid. I can re-run it if that is desired.
[20:21] <balloons> right.. I would leave it all up and we'll see the feedback we get
[20:21] <balloons> just wipe the days and times from it
[20:21] <balloons> Letozaf, so overall as an idea do you think this would be useful in comparison to how cadence testing was done last time?
[20:21] <phillw> balloons: by my bad maths - that is about 12 hours of classrooms to be held!
[20:21] <balloons> phillw, nice!
[20:22] <balloons> It's exciting to see everyone step up and pitch in.. i like the student becoming the teacher.. so we'll round up some of last cycle's students :-)
[20:22] <balloons> hehe
[20:22] <phillw> I'll remove the old links, as long as we still reference to them so that what can be re-used is :D
[20:22] <balloons> phillw, let's copy the classroom page as-is to a /raring version
[20:23] <balloons> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
[20:23] <balloons> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
[20:23] <balloons> for the final page names..
[20:23] <balloons> we'll convert https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom to a landing page
[20:23] <balloons> :-)
[20:24] <Letozaf> balloons, yes I think it would be very useful
[20:24] <balloons> phillw, I used raring and saucy because we use that elsewhere instead of the numeric equivalent.. precedence, heh
[20:24] <Letozaf> balloons, you've got all the bugs there so you can go an see what happened previously
[20:25] <Letozaf> Letozaf, and maybe avoid duplicate ones :p
[20:25] <balloons> yes, I know you don't like dupes :-)
[20:25] <balloons> me netheir!
[20:25] <Letozaf> balloons, :p
[20:27] <balloons> Letozaf, so have you met Vasudevan? He's been hacking on the autopilot tests.. And DanChampman who left just a bit ago too
[20:27] <balloons> you should have some company for hacking :-)
[20:28] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom_13.10 better?
[20:28] <balloons> Vasudevan, meet Letozaf another contributor to the autopilot testcases
[20:28] <Vasudevan> hi
[20:28] <Letozaf> balloons, I've been "reading" a bit what they were doing but did not "introduce" myself :p
[20:28] <Vasudevan> still getting to know autopliot
[20:29] <Letozaf> Vasudevan, hi
[20:29] <balloons> phillw, good enough for me.. I can rename the page and send it round the list to see what happens
[20:29] <phillw> balloons: as soon as your happy with the 13.10 setup, I'll rename them both :)
[20:29] <balloons> thanks for your help in prepping this
[20:29] <Letozaf> Vasudevan, welcome hope you have fun hacking autopilot
[20:29] <balloons> phillw, ahh.. I did make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring
[20:29] <Vasudevan> Letozaf, thanks
[20:30] <balloons> so Vasudevan this channel is sometimes busy / sometimes quiet, depending on who's awake :-) But feel free to hangout here and ask questions, etc...
[20:30] <phillw> balloons: that's fine, I can just rename the 13.10 one as Saucy :D
[20:31] <balloons> you'll meet some people who work on all sorts of different stuff in ubuntu-quality
[20:31] <balloons> phillw, perfect :-)
, thanks, when I "joined" this channel, I lost the autopilot window in my browser - how come?
[20:32] <balloons> Vasudevan, ohh, that's not good ;-( Are you on a webclient?
[20:32] <Vasudevan> balloons, I am using firefox
[20:32] <balloons> I see your still in the #ubuntu-autopilot channel :-)
[20:32] <balloons> Vasudevan, so you went to this address? http://webchat.freenode.net/
[20:32] <Vasudevan> balloons, I can see only the quality channel
[20:33] <phillw> I'll keep the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom and amend it to simply point to the two new pages. That way, if people have it bookmarked they will not get a 404 error (which is seriously frowned upon :P )
[20:33] <balloons> phillw, yes, make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom a landing page. And we'll want to link to it from the activities page as well
[20:33] <Vasudevan> balloons,  thats right.
[20:33] <balloons> if you can manage that
[20:34] <balloons> Vasudevan, so it looks like if you look at the top of your screen it should show 3 tabs
[20:34] <balloons> on the webpage itself, not firefox tabs :-)
[20:35] <balloons> one should say status, one #ubuntu-quality and one #ubuntu-autopilot
[20:35] <balloons> click the tabs to move between the chats
[20:35] <Vasudevan> balloons, got it, I can see autopliot tab and switch to it
[20:35] <balloons> if there is a pending message it should glow blue
[20:35] <balloons> Vasudevan, :-)
[20:36] <balloons> Vasudevan, I'll try not to confuse you but you can also use a desktop client to connect if you wish.. I'll just leave this link here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/8015/what-irc-clients-are-available
[20:37] <Vasudevan> balloons, sure I will get one of these for better visibility
[20:37] <Letozaf> balloons, #ubuntu-autopilot is not in the logs here: irclogs.ubuntu.com
[20:38] <balloons> I use xchat.. but like everything people have there own preferences
[20:38] <balloons> Letozaf, ohh.. good catch!
[20:38] <thomi> Letozaf: there's a ticket open to adress that
[20:38] <Letozaf> thomi, oh! fine :p
[20:38] <balloons> thomi, :-) I was going to rub it in
[20:38] <Letozaf> balloons, :p
[20:38] <balloons> you beat me to it1
[20:38] <thomi> too late!
[20:38] <balloons> morning Noskcaj
[20:39] <Noskcaj> morning balloons
[20:39] <balloons> Vasudevan, this might also help you get to know everyone on IRC.. many people have there stuff in there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre
[20:40] <balloons> Noskcaj, so we're doing lots of scheduling for the upcoming cycle today
[20:40] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:40] <Vasudevan> balloons, thanks, bookmarked it.
[20:44] <elfy> evening balloons
[20:44] <balloons> good evening elfy
[20:45] <balloons> so Noskcaj and elfy want to give some feedback on the cadence testing changes I put together
[20:45] <Noskcaj> changes? where?
[20:45] <balloons> I'm not sure if etheir of you were around for the session we had @ vUDS talking about changing cadence testing to be a bit different
[20:46] <Noskcaj> nope
[20:46] <elfy> not that I remember
[20:46] <balloons> k..
[20:46] <balloons> the idea was to basically to follow all the packages we care about all cycle and push new builds for them as they are created
[20:47] <elfy> and as I was missing last cycle there'd be no change
[20:47] <balloons> so in effect you could track a package all cycle long and see it's old test results and bugs, etc
[20:47] <balloons> ok, so I've mocked up 2 examples of it
[20:47] <balloons> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/builds and http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds
[20:47] <elfy> ok
[20:47] <balloons> it's showing the 2 ways we can do it; have a milestone for each package, or lump them all together into one milestone(s)
[20:47] <elfy> looking
[20:48] <balloons> if you look essentially you can follow along with the old results and bug reports, etc: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/253/history and here: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/history
[20:48] <balloons> in addition, you could subscribe to your favorite packages and be notified about new versions (and test them :-) )
[20:48] <elfy> cool
[20:48] <balloons> so all that said, which way do you prefer? Having everything all lumped in as one milestone, or the 2nd way and having each package be it's own milestone?
[20:48] <elfy> that sounds extraordinarily useful
[20:49] <elfy> well ...
[20:49] <balloons> excellent.. It was proposed by smartboyhw and someone else during the event, so I promised to mock it up
[20:50] <elfy> so there 'could' be one of these for packages 'we' care about ?
[20:50] <balloons> so yea.. the question is should we pursue this a opposed to how we tested last cycle.. and which way do you prefer
[20:50] <elfy> for instance I'd have little interest in unity but loads in xfce4 for example
[20:51] <balloons> elfy, yes, the idea is to make these for stuff 'we' care about
[20:51] <elfy> k - makes sense, but I've not got the looking backward thing :)
[20:51] <balloons> elfy, heh.. yes, understood :-)
[20:52] <balloons> here's what we did in the past quickly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring. Basically linked out to the tracker and tested specific packages/hw/whatev's
[20:52] <elfy> so basically we could have 'a' package and be able to follow it from now till 6 months and watch bugs etc
[20:52] <elfy> or
[20:52] <elfy> a general overview type affair ?
[20:52] <balloons> each week we changed up what we focused on
[20:52] <balloons> elfy, yes you could watch a package all cycle
[20:53] <balloons> every build would have an entry and any test results that were entered for it, along with the list of bugs
[20:53] <elfy> right - I can go for that I think :)
[20:53] <Noskcaj> i prefer general overview, and can we add testdrive to the list or not?
[20:54] <balloons> elfy, the difference between the two is one lumps all the stuff we care about into 1 milestone.. the other would seperate out every package
[20:54] <balloons> I suppose we could do both.. lump some together, and others seperate too
[20:55] <balloons> Noskcaj, yes, we could watch testdrive
[20:55] <Noskcaj> :)
[20:55] <balloons> the stuff we want to watch needs to be discussed
[20:55] <elfy> yep
[20:56] <elfy> balloons: 2 secs - need to sort out a question here and I'm tired ...
[20:57] <elfy> balloons: would this be instead of http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/44701/testcases for instance - or and expansion of that or something completely different
[20:58] <balloons> elfy, in addition to the image testing
[20:58] <phillw> balloons: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom okay? (Crikey, you're popular to-night... new after-shave? :P )
[20:58] <elfy> ok
[20:58] <balloons> so here, have a look: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:58] <balloons> that's the packages tracker.. you can see how last cycle went more or less
[20:58] <balloons> see the cadence week milestones.. each with a different scope of tests to run, etc?
[20:59] <elfy> ohhhh - so this is about the cadence testing stuff only
[20:59] <balloons> phillw, :-p I like a nice buzzing channel!
[20:59] <balloons> elfy, yes, this was a suggestion to change how we did cadence testing
[20:59] <elfy> balloons: right - yea - I'd prefer detail for specific things I think personally
[21:00] <balloons> ok, so you like the milestone for each package you care about..
[21:00] <balloons> and track it all cycle
[21:00] <elfy> yea I think so - I'd need to talk to the boss, but right here and now I'd prefer that
[21:00] <balloons> for our purposes of cadence testing then, the cadence week becomes about hitting the list of packages and running through them if they are untested
[21:01] <balloons> but everyone is of course welcome to report results anytime.. the point is the milestone will always be open
[21:01] <balloons> not limited to one week snapshots like last cycle
[21:01] <elfy> k
[21:01] <balloons> so for xubuntu.. yea, you can leverage this in any way you wish :-)
[21:02] <elfy> balloons: so - if there's package X and we want to test it -we could in effect do it for 6 months if necessary and not worry about only having a week?
[21:02] <balloons> phillw, yes, I like the page..
[21:02] <balloons> thanks!
[21:02] <balloons> btw, you can hotlink to times on those pages
[21:02] <balloons> so instead of http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html you can use http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t16:01
[21:02] <balloons> and go right to my session :-)
[21:03] <elfy> balloons: if that's the case then it  would help I think as we tend to not get huge numbers of people testing things
[21:03] <balloons> elfy, yes.. you could test at any point over the cycle.. and have all the results collated in that one spot
[21:03] <phillw> balloons: thanks, I did just ask on -backroom as I knew it was possible :D
[21:03] <balloons> the times on the right are linkable
[21:04] <balloons> nice little anchor tags :-)
[21:04] <elfy> balloons: ok - that makes sense to me and enough to be able to explain it as well :)
[21:04] <balloons> elfy, great
[21:04] <elfy> I can see that being useful given the testing user numbers we usually attract
[21:05] <balloons> wonderful.. so it sounds like everyone likes the idea.. we'll see what the mailing list has to say
[21:05] <balloons> just thought I would pick the brains of those who were live on IRC first
[21:05] <elfy> balloons: so there's be the normal image testing and this detailed stuff as well
[21:05] <balloons> Noskcaj, you are also for the idea right?
[21:05] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:05] <balloons> elfy, yes.. the normal image testing carries on as normla
[21:05] <elfy> balloons: more lucking picking a cockle than my brain ...
[21:06] <balloons> for ubuntu, we'll test during cadence weeks, targetting the dailies
[21:06] <balloons> flavors are free to arrange it however.. and we all test during milestones :-)
[21:06] <elfy> yep
[21:07] <elfy> so all Noskcaj and I need to do is decide which packages we need to concentrate on for xubuntu
[21:07] <elfy> specifically that is
[21:08] <Noskcaj> elfy, ok. let's see what everyone else on#xubuntu-devel wants
[21:09] <elfy> yep - I'll write a mail tonight/tomorrow explaining this and ask for packages
[21:09] <elfy> maybe send it to you so you can have a look first
[21:10] <Noskcaj> ok, sounds good
[21:11] <elfy> Noskcaj: so what's your time now? about 7am ish
[21:11] <Noskcaj> yep
[21:12] <elfy> k - so wwe're about 9 hours apart - useful to know
[21:37] <elfy> balloons: I knew I'd have a question just before I needed to hit the sack ... could we not have http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for all (as an example) xubuntu packages we wanted to follow and then be able to drill down to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/252/builds for the detail ?
[21:37] <elfy> or is that what's anticipated and I got the wrong end of the stick when I started thinking about it again lol
[21:37] <balloons> elfy, your free to arrange it however you wish
[21:38] <elfy> ok - so we could do that ^^
[21:38] <balloons> if you lump them into one milestone you get the good and bad that brings :-)
[21:38] <balloons> if you make them seperate, it's the same thing :-)
[21:38] <balloons> I think the answer is going to lie in the middle perhaps, depending on how many packages you track
[21:38] <elfy> :)
[21:38] <elfy> ok thanks
[21:38] <balloons> make a couple milestones and track a bunch of stuff in each
[21:39] <elfy> but a milestone could last for 6 months if we wanted that?
[21:39] <elfy> or is that too much :p
[21:39] <elfy> I can see a case for short term ones for easier things and long term ones for the bigger fish
[21:40]  * elfy is probably overthinking it now lol 
[21:40] <knome> you are! :P
[21:40] <elfy> knome: I thought so - it's too late lol
[21:42] <phillw> wb knome, I hope you had an enjoyable couple of days off?
[21:42] <balloons> elfy, milestone length can be whatever you wish
[21:42] <knome> yes and no - have been feeling a bit sick today
[21:42] <elfy> balloons: thanks
[21:42] <phillw> knome: :/
[21:42] <balloons> the idea behind this we in ubuntu qa are debating is having one that last for 6 months :-)
[21:43]  * balloons waves to knome 
[21:43] <knome> heya balloons
[21:43] <knome> :)
[21:43] <knome> balloons, if i add elfy to xubuntu-release, will he get all the testsuite/-case tweaking permissions as well?
[21:44] <balloons> knome, yes
[21:44] <phillw> balloons: I take it that the milestone will run ~ 1- 2 weeks after final release so as to accomodate the 'zero day' bugs?
[21:44] <balloons> he'll have authority to manage releases for xubuntu
[21:44] <knome> balloons, i know *that* :)
[21:44] <balloons> so marking builds, test, suites, etc, etc
[21:44] <balloons> lol.. just warning you..
[21:44] <knome> marking, but what about managing them?
[21:44] <balloons> you know that elfy guy :-p
[21:44] <elfy> :p
[21:45] <knome> well i nominated him myself...
[21:45] <balloons> phillw, that's an excellent point
[21:45] <balloons> not a bad idea
[21:45] <balloons> I'm mailing the post now.. add it to the feedback for everyone to see :-)
[21:46] <phillw> balloons: okies, btw Noskcaj is happy to re-run the classroom session allocate to him. If only because testdrive now is more functional (can use the new Vbox etc.)
[21:47] <Noskcaj> phillw, we need to get parallels fixed or out by then though
[21:48] <phillw> Noskcaj: you wok with what you have, for others you issue clear work-arounds ... That is called life :)
[21:48] <Noskcaj> unfortunately, the only workaround, is never use parallels
[21:49] <phillw> Noskcaj: last cycle it was do not use the most up to date VBox. These things happen. I'm still spitting mad that the KVM bug seems to languish unloved.
[21:49] <balloons> ok last mailing ondeck is the classroom scheduling
[21:50] <balloons> I think folks are going to be buried by all the scheduling :-)
[21:51] <phillw> balloons: we may be kidnapping #ubuntu-classroom for a period of 14 days. I would struggle to hold 3 X 1 hour sessions on virtualisation. People new to it would not stand a chance and leave.
[21:52] <phillw> they have to learn to walk before we ask them to run :)
[21:53] <elfy> Noskcaj: you have a draft now
[21:54] <phillw> balloons: and as to where i add a classroom session for LVM?!!!! It's not really QA/Testing subject, but just really useful.... your thoughts?
[21:56] <balloons> phillw, we should make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom have a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom like the subpages
[21:58] <balloons> we should also grab the old openweek and devweek sessions and link them
[22:02] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom look okay?
[22:03] <balloons> phillw, yes
[22:03] <balloons> mail should hit the list in a second
[22:04] <balloons> then my good sir, it's time for dinner!
[22:04] <phillw> it is time for bed here!
[22:44]  * elfy completely forgot that it'd be pointless to be on the ubuntu-qa mailing list ... 
[23:47] <smartboyhw> balloons: How's the classroom session?