[05:40] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:14] <MartijnV1S> \o
[06:15] <ali1234> is there a tool which will make a bunch of nested directories and small files? for testing filesystems?
[06:16] <ali1234> i want a directory with 10 directories in it, with 10 directories in each of those, and then 10 files in every directory at every level
[06:16] <ali1234> or even better i can choose...
[06:18] <MartijnV1S> ali1234: for x in `seq 1 10`; do for y in `seq 1 10`; do mkdir -p $x/$y; done; done
[06:18] <MartijnV1S> ali1234: add more nesting as required
[06:19] <MartijnV1S> add a "touch" in there if you also want to test *file* entries :)
[06:19] <ali1234> ok, what if i want it 100 levels deep?
[06:22] <MartijnV1S> P="."; for x in `seq 1 100`; do P="$P/$x"; mkdir $P; done
[06:23] <ali1234> that won't make a tree...
[06:23] <MartijnV1S> ali1234: it makes 1/2/3/4/5 for me
[06:23] <ali1234> i want 1/1/1/1/1/1... * 100 to 100/100/100/100/100... * 100
[06:24] <MartijnV1S> just merge the two command lines I posted
[06:24] <ali1234> ie 100^100 directories
[06:24] <MartijnV1S> will that even fit?
[06:24] <ali1234> no
[06:24] <ali1234> but the point is, i want it to be arbitrary depth and width
[06:25] <MartijnVdS> time to break out ye olde perle interpretere
[06:26] <ali1234> you mean pythonr ight
[06:26] <MartijnVdS> if you're so inclined
[06:27] <ali1234> hmm why can't i chown a file so i am not the owner of it?
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> only if you;re root
[06:27] <ali1234> well that is annoying
[06:27] <ali1234> how can i make a file that i can't delete without being root?
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> chattr +i ?
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> you can still delete it
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> (if you chattr -i it)
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> but it's harder
[06:28] <ali1234> it has to make nautilus pop up an error while deleting
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> I think chattr does
[06:28] <ali1234> here is the deal: the new nautilus has that combined file progress dialogue
[06:28] <ali1234> so you copy or delete files and it puts them all in one window
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> chattr doesn't work on btrfs though
[06:28] <ali1234> but there is a catch: errors still go to the window where you started the copy
[06:29] <MartijnVdS> even if you closed that window?
[06:29] <ali1234> and if you closed that window the error never pps up
[06:29] <MartijnVdS> fial
[06:29] <ali1234> and the operation just stalls
[06:29] <ali1234> and what is more, no further error from any operation will ever be shown
[06:29] <MartijnVdS> that's .. bad
[06:29] <ali1234> so i am trying to make a testcase for this
[06:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: use a directory with a few ISOs, delete one of the ISOs before nautilus gets to it
[06:30] <MartijnVdS> or rename it
[06:30] <ali1234> also if you close the stalled operation group window then a new one will never appear
[06:30] <ali1234> so from then on you are working completely blind
[06:30] <ali1234> so i want a small script to make all the files etc
[06:31] <ali1234> and then say "run this, delete the direct in nautilus, close the window"
[06:31] <ali1234> so i need a big directory structure to give time to actually close the window
[06:31] <ali1234> and i need a file that will cuase an error when nautilus tries to delete it
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or copy a number of large files
[06:31] <ali1234> hmm
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: (on a relatively slow disk, say over SMB)
[06:31] <ali1234> i could set it to no read
[06:32] <ali1234> and then try to copy or move
[06:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: mv file file.not_there_anymore_haha
[06:32] <ali1234> that is too hard for a testcase
[06:32] <ali1234> it has to be easily reproducable
[06:32] <MartijnVdS> because gnome devs can't use the command line?
[06:32] <ali1234> right
[06:34] <ali1234> chmod a-rwx and then trying to copy seems to work
[07:11] <diplo> Morning all
[07:36] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:45] <knightwise> hey MooDoo diddledan
[07:45] <knightwise> diplo:
[07:45] <knightwise> hw are you guys today
[07:46] <knightwise> aside from freezing arse off
[07:47] <MooDoo> lots of people have said they are cold, can't feel it myself.
[07:49] <knightwise> MooDoo: where are you hiding out ?
[07:50] <MooDoo> knightwise: in the sauna at work ;)
[07:54] <diddledan> hello knightwise
[07:55] <diplo> Was very sunny here till about 15 mins ago
[07:55] <diplo> I've got to spend the next 2 hours sat outside at my kids sports day!
[07:55] <diddledan> I really should have thought more thoroughly the time it would take to move a 400GB LVM pv from one disc to another at 8:30 when I should have been travelling to work
[07:55] <diplo> At least they can run around :(
[07:55] <diddledan> ouch
[07:56] <diddledan> 20% done
[07:58] <diddledan> sports day fttptc
[07:58] <diddledan> that's "for the 'taking part that counts'"
[07:59] <diddledan> alternatively ftwld
[07:59] <diddledan> for the win lose or draw
[08:00] <knightwise>  does anyone know the difference between Mint Xfce and Ubuntu ?
[08:00] <knightwise> (if you take the LTS versions ? )
[08:00] <diddledan> knightwise: mint xfce doesn't use unity
[08:00] <knightwise> diddledan: Sorry i mistyped
[08:01] <knightwise> Mint XFCE and Xubuntu
[08:01] <diddledan> mint guys include some "added extras" which aren't available in the ubuntu repos
[08:01] <knightwise> ok , so its a "richer" 12.04
[08:02] <diddledan> I wouldn't say richer unless those added extras are things you want
[08:02] <diddledan> I forget what they add in their repo
[08:02] <ali1234> mint has a totally reworked package manager
[08:02] <knightwise> ok , so no Ubuntu software center there
[08:03] <ali1234> yeah
[08:05] <knightwise> ok ,
[09:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:14] <MooDoo> morning
[09:15] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:07] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[10:10] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:17] <MooDoo> morning morning morning
[10:45] <MattJ> Good morning
[10:46] <andrewebdev> morning all. Am in a spot of trouble here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/298881/13-04-unity-graphics-suddenly-broken-for-no-reason
[10:46] <MooDoo> morning
[10:47] <andrewebdev> I'm wondering if unity stores some info about the desktop, layout and graphics in my home folder? If so where is that located and am I safe to just delete all of that?
[10:53] <czajkowski> andrewebdev: you might have some luck in #ubuntu-desktop
[10:53] <czajkowski> as all the devs are in the channel
[10:53] <andrewebdev> ah cool
[10:57] <bigcalm> When in doubt about desktop environment settings, I create a new user and log in as it. That was I get to see the defaults
[11:06] <mungbean> was alan wake game any good?
[11:06] <mungbean> windows only i know :(
[11:10] <directhex> alan wake i enjoyed
[11:10] <directhex> it's better than a lot of modern horror games
[11:10] <directhex> i felt the writing was far above average
[11:11] <mungbean> they are doing a pay what u like
[11:12] <mungbean> but who am i kidding, when would i get the time to play it?
[11:12] <mungbean> or the inclination to install windows
[11:17] <mungbean> i just bought myself a kick scooter for commuting
[11:17] <mungbean> to make the journey between stations more interesting
[11:17] <BigRedS> windows is a lot less bad to install than it used to be, you only really need to get the network driver manually IME
[11:18] <mungbean> well you also need disk space, time, windows, etc
[11:18] <BigRedS> oh, yeah. But given those
[11:19] <BigRedS> also, mine's a legitimate OEM one so no faffing with circumventing protections
[11:28] <knightwise> there
[11:28] <knightwise> Ubuntu studio isntalled on the little laptop
[11:28] <knightwise> :)
[11:28] <knightwise> Xfce is a tad faster then unity i must say
[11:37] <mungbean> try elementary, fastest of the lot while still having bling
[11:44] <mungbean> question about giffgaff payback - if i have 500 points and can't reclaim via paypal because they want 1000 pts minimum, what happens?
[11:44] <mungbean> do your points hang around till the next payback?
[11:45] <BigRedS> knightwise: it's also way more clunky
[11:46]  * mungbean remembers to change his goofdybag to the 7.50 one
[11:54] <knightwise> BigRedS: it depends.
[11:54] <knightwise> i use kupfer as my launcher and try to use keyboard commands as much as possible
[11:54] <knightwise> its not that bad then
[12:18] <ew3r23r> !Cozette [14084] Naked Empire - Terry Goodkind.epub
[12:18] <lubotu3`> ew3r23r: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[12:18] <mungbean> my wife only just found out what happened yesterday in woolwich :-|
[12:19] <BigRedS> knightwise: I couldn't work out how to get dual monitors to do anything but mirror, and the alt-f2 box took about 12 seconds to appear so I went back to Unity
[12:27] <diplo> Anyone know of any python modules that scan for metadata ( info ) from all media files, basically want to create a library like xbmcs
[12:28] <diplo> Going to check their code later to see how they do it, but was wondering if there was a generic one or I'm going to have to do mp3tag one and then something else for movies
[12:29] <diplo> Seems like calling mplayer with the options i need is the way most people are doing it
[13:56] <bigcalm> Tum-te-tum-te-tum
[13:56] <bigcalm> Feels like Friday
[13:59] <shauno> diplo: I'd probably look at the python gstreamer libs?  (look at gstfile.py in python-gst I believe)
[13:59] <penguin42> bigcalm: Not quite
[13:59] <penguin42> and anyway, I've got the week off, so don't make my holiday go any faster thank you
[14:00] <diplo> shauno: ta, hadn't come across that yet
[14:00]  * diplo looks
[14:00] <SuperMatt> I've had such a long run of 4 day weeks, for various reasons, that 5 day weeks are getting really dedious
[14:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: Sue went up town today instead of tomorrow so I really think it's friday, I was so looking forward to the weekend :(
[14:00] <shauno> that should give you a common method to get tags from anything gstreamer handles, that than worrying about per-codec like mp3tag
[14:01] <knightwise> anyone know a nice ubuntu client
[14:01] <knightwise> i tried hottot several times but it just doesnt seem to work
[14:01] <knightwise> i boot it up but when I need to type in my account .. it just freezes
[14:02] <drbalor> czajkowski: http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/w16.jpg <-- never say I don't think of you
[14:03] <czajkowski> drbalor: lol
[14:03] <davmor2> knightwise: if you are on 13.04 you can try friends, still early development but much nicer than gwibber, or just use the webapp maybe?
[14:05] <knightwise> yeah davmor2 but I would like to update twitter and facebook at the same time
[14:05] <knightwise> friends app is still very early days
[14:06] <mungbean> anyonen tried cronopete?
[14:06] <mungbean> http://www.rastersoft.com/programas/cronopete.html
[14:12] <BigRedS> does that use fancy fs features, or just hardlinks?
[14:12] <mungbean> dunno
[14:13] <directhex> it does a full tarball snapshot of your rootfs every 5 minutes, obviously!
[14:17] <funkyHat> https://github.com/rastersoft/cronopete/blob/master/doc/README.html < explanation there mungbean, BigRedS.
[14:17] <funkyHat> Looks like it does the hardlink thing like all the rsync backup things, but from the description I'm guessing it doesn't actually use rsync, and just comapres modified times
[14:20] <funkyHat> The main "clever" thing that Time Machine does is uses directory hardlinks, so it doesn't even have to keep a tree of links if that part of the fs hasn't changed. Which means it only works on HFS+. And then it breaks if you use a network backup location and you close the lid the wrong way while it's backing up, and trashes the whole of your backup history.
[14:24] <bigcalm> davmor2: gran's funeral tomorrow makes for a sort week and a crappy way to start a long weekend
[14:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: indeed
[14:26] <bigcalm> davmor2: why do I want pie when talking to you?
[14:27] <mungbean> wife tells me my son just had a 30 minute kick/screaming tantrum in tesco over a bread roll :S 5 strangers came up to him to try and calm him down
[14:27] <mungbean> the joy of toddlers
[14:27] <bigcalm> I think humanity would be better off without children
[14:28] <funkyHat> Perhaps in the short to medium term
[14:28] <mgdm> mungbean: :/
[14:29] <mungbean> bigcalm: might start to have an impact soonish though
[14:32] <bigcalm> Maybe this is how life would be without children as we know them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_and_the_Stars#Setting
[14:32] <bigcalm> I should re-ready my sifi collections
[14:32] <bigcalm> reread
[14:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: because I am the piemaster of olde ye London Town all who call upon my name require pie as sustenance :D
[14:33] <mungbean> did anyone read enders game and think it was lame?
[14:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: that or you are thinking of the pie factory
[14:33] <mungbean> everyone seems to rave about it
[14:33] <bigcalm> davmor2: mmmmm, pie factory
[14:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: not the first option then
[14:34] <bigcalm> davmor2: I do not trust any London pie references for I have seen Sweeney Todd
[14:38] <funkyHat> mmmmm london pie
[14:38] <JamesTait> $TZAG, all. :)
[14:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: see that's your problem you are trying to cram all of London into a pie of course there will be the odd person in the mix who didn't get out the way quick enough :D
[14:55] <penguin42> gah my notes on how to boot this netflex were nowhere near enough
[15:53] <penguin42> hmm - if I've got a debootstrap'd (but not working world) can I push another package into it?
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: chroot into it, dpkg -i ?
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> or doesn't chroot work either?
[15:54] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: You know how I said it wasn't working :-)
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: it could be that /bin/sh at least worked
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> but not much else
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: you could do it the hard way(r) and un-ar the deb, untar the data.tar.gz into the chroot, then run the package scripts (chrooted) from one of the other .tar.gzs
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> but .. I don't know exactly what kinds of failure modes that creates
[15:55] <shauno> you should be able to dpkg -i --root=/mnt/target yourpackage.deb
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> ooh, dpkg has a --root option
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[15:56] <shauno> that also runs pre/post in chroot though, so if your target is broken enough that they might fail, it's still thin ice
[15:56] <penguin42> shauno: Nice!
[15:57] <penguin42> shauno: I want to install the -dbg package for libc
[16:01] <penguin42> this is an armhf root inside a an armel root on an android machine with an old kernel
[16:02] <penguin42> right, nothing that --force-all doesn't fix :-)
[16:04] <daftykins> saw someone struggling with a messed up EFI installation attempt from 13.04 last night
[16:04] <daftykins> anyone know if 13.04's ubiquity can handle changing between an MBR and GPT setup on a disk during the partition stage?
[16:04] <daftykins> i should really VM it and try ^_^ not even touched that version yet
[16:05] <xnox> daftykins: GPT vs PC-BIOS partition table does not matter for UEFI.
[16:05] <xnox> daftykins: in general it preserves existing partition table.
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> doesn't that depend on your uefi implementation?
[16:05] <xnox> MartijnVdS: no.
[16:06] <daftykins> xnox: that's not what i asked
[16:06] <xnox> MartijnVdS: it depends on the bootloader, and grub will happily UEFI boot of any.
[16:06] <xnox> daftykins: you can wipe and create a new partition table, but it doesn't offer you to choose which one you want, nor will it convert one to another.
[16:06] <daftykins> that's a bit weak
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> xnox: but what if UEFI can't find the boot partition because it doesn't know how to read that specific kind of partiton scheme?
[16:08] <shauno> most I've run across have both schemes, which is bad for your sanity, but works
[16:08] <xnox> MartijnVdS: UEFI is a specification - a text document =) firmware generally can bring up a disk drive. And there is only one UEFI partition allowed per drive, it doesn't even read partition scheme, just searches for the marker/label.
[16:09] <xnox> of the efi partition.
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> xnox: Does the UEFI spec specify which partition types it must be able to read boot-code from? :)
[16:09] <xnox> which is reduced FAT.
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> ah
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> scary
[16:09] <xnox> MartijnVdS: yes, EFI partition label, which is reduced-scope & limited FAT.
[16:10] <directhex> the UEFI spec mandates FAT for the EFI system partition, and includes the full specification of the filesystem (and requisite patent license)
[16:10] <daftykins> a specification PC manufacturers have yet to get right
[16:10] <xnox> lowest commend denominator which _everyone_ knows how to read =)
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> xnox: and they did so well with iso9660
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> xnox: and/or ufs
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> no not ufs.. the other one
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> UDF
[16:11] <shauno> pick a standard, any standard, we have hundreds to choose from ;)
[16:11] <daftykins> few standards are standard :<
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> ooh, I have "new maps" now
[16:14] <daftykins> latest Google Maps app?
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> website
[16:14] <daftykins> ah
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> it's an obvious beta though
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> or it doesn't like my gpu
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> or both
[16:15] <daftykins> or driver
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> Intel
[16:16] <daftykins> or wind direction
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> waiting for Haswell now.. only a few more weeks
[16:19] <daftykins> do you upgrade much?
[16:19] <penguin42> has someone got a running arm system (modern kernel) that they can give me a /proc/self/maps from?
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Not as often as I used to
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> this is a pre-SandyBridge i3, so it's getting a bit oldish
[16:20] <daftykins> haha
[16:20] <directhex> penguin42, how modern a kernel?
[16:20] <daftykins> i'm still rocking LGA775
[16:20] <directhex> penguin42, my efikamx is bound to an ancient freescale kernel
[16:20] <penguin42> directhex: anything new enough to run armhf
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: isn't that 1990s? THe old intel card?
[16:20] <daftykins> :P
[16:20] <directhex> daftykins, pfft, and to think you used to be part of the pc enthusiast community :<
[16:20]  * penguin42 has an i7-860
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: oh wait that waws the "740"
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have the i3-530 from that era
[16:21] <daftykins> directhex: yip, guess i grew up :D
[16:21] <directhex> penguin42, http://paste.debian.net/6044/
[16:21] <directhex> i7-920!
[16:21] <directhex> on socket 1366!
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> I'm saving up money for the 4770k or something similar
[16:21] <penguin42> directhex: Hmm and that's running armhf?
[16:21]  * penguin42 was expecting a vector page at the top
[16:22] <directhex> penguin42, notice the triplet in /lib
[16:22] <directhex> penguin42, but, again, this is an ancient freescale kernel
[16:22] <directhex> penguin42, let me ssh to a debian porterbox
[16:23] <penguin42> directhex: Hmm - my problem is I've got this nook, and it runs an armel chroot fine, but the debian armhf segs in ld-linux, I've already built a new kernel with the vector page in, but it's still not happy - so I'm assuming it's missing something useful from the kernel - just not figured out what yet
[16:23] <directhex> penguin42, okay, harris.d.o: http://paste.debian.net/6045/
[16:23] <penguin42> directhex: Thanks!
[16:24] <penguin42> hmm, ok - so my theory of it being memory layout is bogus - that's the same as my new kernel
[16:30] <daftykins> on the topic of upgrading, i'm too aware of how, even if i did have the latest hardware, it wouldn't actually feel any more worth it than what i run now
[16:30] <daftykins> the only true change is that of your bank balance :D
[16:30] <penguin42> yeh I used to upgrade when I could get something 5 times faster, these days that's just not doable
[16:30] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:31] <daftykins> i went from an Athlon XP to a quad-core Intel last, that felt nice
[16:31] <penguin42> P90->533MHz Alpha->Dual 1.8GHz Athlon    were my first 3 Linux machines
[16:32] <daftykins> probably won't see that change again, just newer OS's that are chunkier so need faster hardware to make them feel as smooth as Windows 7 atop my intel quad
[16:32] <daftykins> penguin42: nice :D
[16:32] <penguin42> then core2, then this i7-860
[16:36] <daftykins> i'm putting a gaming PC together for a friend soon, that'll give me the ideal exposure to new hardware to see just how disappointed i'd be, assembling one for myself - only without spending the money! :D
[16:37] <daftykins> actually i put together an i7 3770 for a client a while back too, so i've already done it
[16:38] <directhex> this pc is 4 years old now. all original parts
[16:38]  * penguin42 doesn't really game
[16:38] <directhex> except for the extra 6G RAM i bought from Azelphur
[16:38] <directhex> and the two GPU upgrades
[16:38] <directhex> and the SSD
[16:38] <directhex> other than that, totally original 4 year old pc!
[16:40] <penguin42> so yeh other than most of the rest of the machine it's just the same....
[16:41]  * penguin42 has only added an SSD in the 3 years since he had this
[16:41] <directhex> well, the motherboard and cpu are original
[16:41] <directhex> and the case and the power supply
[16:41] <shauno> I tend to max mine for ram as soon as I can.  after that, upgrades get boring
[16:41] <directhex> and, um, the blu-ray drive
[16:42] <directhex> also it no longer runs vista home basic :D
[16:42]  * penguin42 rarely pushes the 8GB on this home machine
[16:43] <penguin42> ahha - the TLS register is 0
[16:43] <shauno> I hit that with VMs way too easily.  a bit disappointed this one won't go past 16
[16:45] <penguin42> shauno: I tend not to have big VMs, I have two or three with playing with things or trying different versions out, but if I'm doing a big dev (like I had one which had a new KDE build in) I just let that take most of the RAM
[16:47] <shauno> I have an appliance that cries foul if it doesn't have 8GB at install-time (but can be reduced later), and a dependency that gets cranky in less than 2
[16:47] <shauno> so half my laptop is eaten before I've even started doing anything :/
[16:47] <penguin42> ouch
[16:47]  * penguin42 does have a machine with 128GB at work, very nice for looking at large debug traces on
[16:47] <daftykins> lol Vista home basic
[16:47] <daftykins> bad directhex!
[16:47] <daftykins> (for the past)
[16:48] <directhex> penguin42, i miss the 1T server at work
[16:48] <directhex> daftykins, i had a vista ultimate upgrade from work, but needed a base oem OS first for licensing raisins
[16:48] <penguin42> ooh 1T, yes that would be fun
[16:48] <penguin42> directhex: Was that a test machine or did it use 1T for something useful?
[16:49] <directhex> penguin42, itanium powered!
[16:50] <penguin42> superdome?
[16:50] <directhex> penguin42, you'd be amazed what kind of new science is possible when you can load data sets that large into a single system image
[16:50] <penguin42> or UV?
[16:50] <directhex> penguin42, predates UV. altix 4700
[16:50] <penguin42> ah ok, yeh
[16:50] <penguin42> yeh we had a one or two brick altix for testing
[17:34] <daftykins> £57.75 for a new main oven thermostat for my smeg oven :(
[17:34] <directhex> smegging hell :|
[17:34] <penguin42> daftykins: How old is it?
[17:34] <daftykins> er dunno, i got it with the place i bought
[17:35] <daftykins> looks like it got converted for Guernsey's gas supply back in 2005
[17:35] <daftykins> so probably that old
[17:38] <daftykins> i called someone around to repair it, he was going to order me the part but i've heard nothing in over a month!
[17:38] <daftykins> which is great because it's an easy job so i'll just do it myself
[17:44] <penguin42> are you allowed to or does it fall under the type of things you can be hung for tampering with a gas appliance?
[17:45]  * penguin42 wonders if Guernsey's gas is thicker and creamier
[17:45] <daftykins> thinner and rubbisher :(
[17:45] <daftykins> LPG
[17:45] <penguin42> yeuch
[17:45] <daftykins> ah well it's an electric oven part so yeah should be fine
[17:45] <daftykins> hrmm ebay is half that price
[17:46] <daftykins> but do i trust them?
[17:47] <shauno> what could possibly go wrong?
[17:47] <daftykins> indeed
[17:47] <daftykins> £34.99 on ebay
[17:48] <daftykins> think i'd rather spend more and get it from a reputable firm
[17:48] <daftykins> espares.co.uk seems legit
[17:48] <daftykins> but twice the price is harsh :(
[17:52] <diddledan> mornin
[17:52] <diddledan> so.. when you boot into windows for the first time in however long, don't trust the clock to tell you when it's time to go home
[17:53] <penguin42> haha
[17:53] <diddledan> I was all set to stay till 7pm thinking it'ld be 6pm
[17:54] <daftykins> :>
[17:55] <penguin42> diddledan: You last booted before the summertime change?
[17:55] <daftykins> that element of multi-boot was often a pain
[17:55] <diddledan> side note however is that ubuntu runs quite nicely under hyper-v
[17:55] <daftykins> i find hyper-v nasty, the whole domain + SQL server requirement
[17:56] <diddledan> penguin42: nah, it's the issue with windows using localtime from the rtc while ubuntu uses gmt in the rtc
[17:57] <diddledan> so once ubuntu sets the RTC to gmt (localtime - 1 hour) then windows reads localtime back from the RTC without correcting
[17:57] <penguin42> diddledan: You can configure which it will use can't you?
[17:57] <diddledan> yeah, but I haven't
[17:58] <diddledan> I'd completely forgotten about the issue until 5/6pm today and I wondered why I was the last person in the office
[17:59] <diddledan> daftykins: no domains or sql server here
[18:00] <daftykins> on the host box running hyper-v?
[18:00] <diddledan> yup
[18:00] <daftykins> used to be their requirement i thought, perhaps they've lifted it
[18:00] <daftykins> or maybe that's just to use SCVMM
[18:01] <diddledan> yeah system center probably requires both of those
[18:02] <diddledan> the hyper-v itself works fine on it's own - they've even packaged a free version of windows server to just run hyper-v similar to the freebie offerings of citrix and vmware
[18:07] <daftykins> ah yeah, it's a bit useless if you have to control the host via RDP to run VMs though
[18:20] <daftykins> ah great, websites that don't have the Channel Islands listed on their payment pages
[18:21] <daftykins> and also charge VAT :(
[18:21] <knightwise> hey everyone
[18:23] <shauno> heh, I only found that out very recently.  had a customer who complained about being charged VAT, which left us with a blank face
[18:24] <diddledan> o_O
[18:24] <shauno> actually, there's a question for you.  do you usually get charged VAT for delivery?
[18:24] <diddledan> channel islands don't pay vat?
[18:25] <diddledan> I knew amazon et al got around vat by putting their distribution centre on the islands
[18:26] <daftykins> that only worked until LVCR, low value consignment relief got canned
[18:26] <diddledan> I didn't know that residents didn't pay vat either
[18:26] <daftykins> we have our own government
[18:26] <daftykins> so yeah, our own laws
[18:26] <diddledan> which island is the one with feudal government? :-p
[18:27] <daftykins> Sark
[18:27] <daftykins> should be going there this bank holiday Monday for a birthday event actually :O
[18:27] <diddledan> \o/
[18:28] <daftykins> ^_^
[18:28] <daftykins> not been over in a while
[18:28] <daftykins> though allegedly it might rain Monday :<
[18:29] <diddledan> looks like I might have won a freelance web dev contract \o/
[18:29] <diddledan> I rock
[18:29] <daftykins> :O nice
[18:29] <diddledan> rain doesn't rock
[18:29] <daftykins> i hope you're nice and moral with your fees
[18:29] <daftykins> a client of mine recently got fleeced for a custom skin on wordpress deal, to the tune of 3 grand >_<
[18:29] <diddledan> yes, I bid higher than everyone else
[18:29] <diddledan> :-p
[18:29] <daftykins> and offered hosting for it... get this...
[18:30] <daftykins> for £1200/yr
[18:30] <daftykins> ¬_¬
[18:30] <diddledan> ouchies
[18:30] <diddledan> that's an expensive hosting
[18:30] <daftykins> i was able to at least pinch the hosting part :D
[18:30] <daftykins> 1) buy VPS 2) host site 3) charge 10% of the above
[18:30] <diddledan> fair enough I pay in the tune of about 300£ per mo on servery stuff but 1200 for a single site is crazy
[18:31] <daftykins> you got that many up though?
[18:31] <diddledan> nope, all personal stuff
[18:31] <daftykins> this is my first client for the hosting part :D
[18:31] <daftykins> got myself one of bytemark's bigv VPSs
[18:32] <diddledan> I've been waiting for someone in #ubuntu-mirror to pull their wotsit out and review my mirror request - uk.ubuntu.bowlhat.net
[18:32] <daftykins> :D
[18:32] <daftykins> i'd like it if the Guernsey mirror weren't just a fake, at least i think it is a fake
[18:32] <daftykins> gg.archive.ubuntu.com iirc
[18:33] <daftykins> yep it's going to London
[18:33] <shauno> I'd like it if the ie mirror wasn't slower than using an australian one :/
[18:33] <daftykins> getting lost in cogentco mirrors and ooh orobas.canonical.com
[18:33] <diddledan> use mine ! :-p
[18:33] <daftykins> :O
[18:40] <shauno> actually, they seem to be quicker than gb today.  that's new.  if it's not a fluke, I might actually start using it again
[19:46] <lardman> Evening all. Are there many people with multihead (and multicard) setups here?
[19:47] <lardman> As usual, my working 3 monitor setup (under Precise) has become non-working with an upgrade to Raring, though this time I don't seem to be able to find any lucky Xorg.conf combination to get it back again
[19:48]  * lardman wonders if there's a multihead "support" group :)
[19:55] <AlanBell> if you are using an xorg.conf then it has already gone horribly wrong
[19:55] <AlanBell> I use dual screen (laptop+external monitor)
[19:55] <AlanBell> and unity is a bit rubbish on it
[19:57] <AlanBell> gnome shell isn't much better
[19:57] <lardman> ah, well I'm trying to not use Unity, and am using the "fallback" setup
[19:57] <ali1234> what's the name of that screen recording tool? it's called yazzam or something...
[19:58] <ali1234> kazam
[19:58] <ali1234> i was close
[19:58] <lardman> Unfortunately my setup is a little complicated, single monitor on an nVidia card and two on an ATi; xinerama all round, worked perfectly (with some fiddling after each upgrade), but no longer
[19:59] <ali1234> lardman: azelphur is our expert on these things
[19:59] <ali1234> by which i mean the only person here who uses it
[19:59] <Azelphur> I havn't tried 13.04 yet
[20:00] <Azelphur> but I run XFCE, it's much less of a pain in the ass for multi monitor
[20:00] <lardman> Azelphur: what cards (manuf) do you use?
[20:01] <Azelphur> nvidia 570 + 630
[20:01]  * lardman curses xchat-gnome for not letting him change from , to :
[20:01]  * AlanBell upgrades server to 13.04
[20:01] <lardman> ah, single manufacturer, I'm tempted to ditch the ATi card to see if that makes life easier
[20:01] <mungbean> Azelphur: u in margate?
[20:01] <Azelphur> mungbean: yup
[20:01] <AlanBell> power cut today rebooted me so I might as well update
[20:02] <mungbean> did i watch the mary portas prog?
[20:02] <Azelphur> I dunno, sorry the cameras I have in your front room arn't working atm
[20:02] <mungbean> i/u
[20:02] <Azelphur> nope :P
[20:02] <mungbean> it was about margate
[20:03] <mungbean> shopping and how grim it is
[20:03] <Azelphur> I see, the whole "all the businesses in margate are shutting down" thing?
[20:03] <mungbean> watch it :P
[20:04] <lardman> Azelphur: what setup do you use? Twinview(?) or xinerama or single server per monitor?
[20:05] <Azelphur> lardman: 2x twinview
[20:05] <Azelphur> lol
[20:06] <lardman> hmm, this is one of the places where Windows is so much better than Windows - multimonitor just works, as does hw accel even across different manuf cards. Annoying
[20:06] <lardman> doh
[20:07] <lardman> Windows->Linux in the second case
[20:08] <funkyHat> I've never had an issue with 2 monitors on Linux, but then I haven't had 2 monitors at once for all that long I suppose (well, a few years now but yeah)
[20:09] <lardman> funkyHat: driven by the same card?
[20:09] <funkyHat> lardman: yes
[20:09] <lardman> yeah, that tends to be easier as you can use the proprietary driver built-in multimonitor support
[20:10] <funkyHat> For a while it's been with the open source radeon drivers, actually
[20:10] <lardman> yeah true, not in the old days though
[20:10] <lardman> bbiab
[20:28] <lardman> re
[20:29] <lardman> I seem to remember that my particularly unimpressive Ati card is not (well) supported by the open source radeon driver, but I must check again
[20:29] <ali1234> wonderful
[20:30] <funkyHat> superb
[20:31]  * lardman goes to look for Xorg segfault bug reports
[20:31] <ali1234> dell... sucks so bad
[20:32] <mungbean> ?
[20:32] <ali1234> i don't know if i should even tell this story, that's how bad it is
[20:32] <mungbean> i like dell
[20:32] <mungbean> business lines
[20:32] <funkyHat> dell are a mixed bag, in my opinion
[20:33] <lardman> this Dell laptop works well under Linux
[20:35] <ali1234> let's just say... if you send a laptop to dell for repair, wipe it first. because you don't just have to worry about dell employees seeing the contents.
[20:35] <mungbean> continue..
[20:36] <daftykins> ah, latest nvidia cards finally got outed
[20:36] <lardman> 780?
[20:39] <mungbean> ali1234: another hugin stitch, no intervention, wheres the stitch pt?
[20:39] <daftykins> yep
[20:39] <mungbean> http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/8806487576/
[20:39] <daftykins> GTX 780 indeed
[20:39] <ali1234> mungbean: just slightly to the right of the wing cannons in the yellow part it is visible
[20:40] <ali1234> it's pretty good though. hooray for open source
[20:40] <ali1234> (also quite visible in the roof supports)
[20:41] <ali1234> also another one visible on the red cord thing in front
[20:42] <ali1234> would probably take me no more than 10 minutes to fix those bits up in photoshop, so that probably is a time saver even if it isn't perfect
[20:42] <mungbean> yep :)
[20:43] <mungbean> the biggest thing is perspective tweaking
[20:43] <ali1234> really though the point where it fails is when you have horizontal and vertical stitching
[20:43] <ali1234> that seems to be harder to deal with
[20:43] <mungbean> its much better with exposure gandling than the canon one
[20:48] <lardman> daftykins: mmm, that looks pretty cool
[20:48] <lardman> so does the Typhoon :)
[20:53] <lardman> Is the 780 the same gen as the Titan?
[20:55] <directhex> afaik yes
[20:57]  * lardman wonders if his power supply is enough to power one of those
[20:57] <daftykins> yeah it's a cutdown Titan
[20:57] <daftykins> you'd want 650W+ depending on the rest of your system
[20:58] <lardman> oh it's cut down is it, interesting
[20:59] <lardman> I think I have a 1000W supply, so should be enough power, space might be the issue though
[20:59] <daftykins> haha 1kW
[20:59] <daftykins> madness
[20:59] <lardman> 1000W sounds like quite a lot mind you
[20:59] <daftykins> sounds like enthusiast spec alright
[20:59] <penguin42> with a PSU like that you can     make tea
[21:00] <lardman> yeah sure can, warms up my legs when I'm doing sim work
[21:00] <lardman> and bloody noisy too
[21:03] <daftykins> ugh remoted into a clients system to perform a Google Apps migration
[21:03] <daftykins> Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook is saying 'Error: cannot create profile' =|
[21:07] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKu20y1f_RU can anyone make that video play past 11:57?
[21:08] <daftykins> nope seems knackered
[21:08] <daftykins> froze up about 11:55 then kept the same frame
[21:08] <daftykins> won't seek
[21:09] <shauno> works fine here (played from 11:40 to 12:40)
[21:09] <diddledan> I can seek past 11:55 from the start
[21:09] <diddledan> got to 13:58 then the endscreen popped up
[21:10] <diddledan> now it's reporting the video is 2:22 long
[21:10] <shauno> past the 14min mark now
[21:11] <shauno> not on linux, but call it a control test I guess.
[21:12] <diddledan> I'm on 'dows
[21:13] <shauno> orly?  that's curious
[21:13] <ali1234> yeah i got past 11:57 be seeking then it cut out again at 16:01
[21:13] <ali1234> i reported it
[21:15] <shauno> curious, either of you using Chrome?
[21:15] <diddledan> yup
[21:16] <shauno> if I play in chrome, it hiccups somewhere around 13:58 .. sends the seek bar to the start, but starts replaying video from about 5 second prior
[21:16] <shauno> if I play it in safari, I don't see any issues at all  (chrome bundles's own flash build)
[21:17] <ali1234> firefox
[21:18] <shauno> well there goes that theory :/   still curious that I get different results in different flash builds though
[22:40] <daftykins> battery dying so time to do other stuff
[22:40] <daftykins> g'night all \o
[22:46]  * lardman also heads for bed
[22:46] <lardman> night all