[00:20] <len-k> zequence: I see why  most discusions end up here.
[00:31] <zequence> len-k: What do you mean?
[00:32] <len-k> I was refering to the mail list.
[00:32] <len-k> aside from that...
[00:33] <len-k> zequence: what is your feeling on HURD?
[00:33] <len-k> Does it look better for audio?
[00:34] <zequence> Oh, no idea :)
[00:34] <zequence> From what I've read, it's more advanced the Linux, which is why it's taking so long to develop, among other things
[00:34] <zequence> Linux these days of course has an army of developers, while Hurd has only a few
[00:35] <zequence> It was supposed to be the GNU kernel, but then came along Linux
[00:35] <len-k> Ya,
[00:35] <zequence> I guess they've been developing it now for more than 20 years
[00:35] <zequence> I just think it's nice that it's getting usable
[00:35] <zequence> It said something about 70% of applications had been ported now
[00:35] <zequence> for Debian
[00:35] <zequence> But, I don't know about drivers
[00:36] <zequence> I think I read about them using Linux drivers, but not sure
[00:36] <len-k> It seems that a "microkernel" on it's own core might do good for low latency work.
[00:37] <zequence> It'll be interesting to try it out. Haven't taken the opportunity to do that yet
[00:41] <zequence> len-k: I think it's good if we do more discussion on the mail list. That would allow for readers who don't come here to become aware of what we are doing
[00:41] <zequence> I'm always thinking I will do this, but I rarely do
[00:42] <len-k> Ok, I will think some more. We are off to eat now. Talk later
[16:55] <zequence> Ahh, I should really choose my words more carefully sometimes.
[16:59] <zequence> DarkEra: New updates for Gnome, and else. Will see if they make a difference
[17:03] <zequence> nope, doesn't seem like it works
[17:04] <zequence> As soon as you do something in gnome-shell, like click on activities or click on the calendar, it just freezes
[17:05] <DarkEra> zequence, ok, thanks for the update. Too bad it still doesn't work yet
[21:02] <DarkEra> zequence, well, i gave it a try on my netbook for fun. I even can't get logged in, keyboard and mouse cursor do nothing at all just like in VB
[21:02] <DarkEra> it was worth a try
[21:18] <zequence> DarkEra: Yeah. I was hoping someone could shine a light on the problem
[21:18] <zequence> I haven't looked for a bug report yet
[21:20] <DarkEra> didn't have the time either to look after one but was thinking about it though.
[23:17] <len-k> zequence: I think that adding new DEs is a good excercise. I think we should try as much as possible to make each DE "shine" as a creation environment in it's uniquness. Not just add DEs to say you can use any DE.
[23:19] <len-k> As I said in my email, it may be that a DE will express one kind of work flow better than other DEs and we may find people who use different workflows use different DEs for that reason.
[23:20] <zequence> I'm sure we learn something by doing it anyway. Also, having a agnostic relationship with the DEs should make more users comfortable
[23:21] <len-k> It may also help us find and solve more bugs
[23:22] <zequence> sure
[23:24] <zequence> I was thinking it might be a good idea to put out some example tasks for people on the mail list later
[23:25] <zequence> Like, going through all the application in a list, and look for bugs, or let us know if they already know of some
[23:25] <zequence> Make sure people report them, if they haven't been reported
[23:25] <zequence> Finally, see if upstream already has fixes
[23:25] <zequence> if not, report them there as well
[23:27] <len-k> I think for testing we need to be able to install all DE metas on one machine/partition and login to different DE sessions.
[23:27] <zequence> It's better not to have more than one DE installed at the time though
[23:28] <zequence> Otherwise, you might not see errors in package selection and stuff like that
[23:28] <zequence> One good method is installing ubuntu-minimal on a virtual machine. Take a shapshot. Then add a PPA with the metas, and install one at the time
[23:28] <len-k> I would not like to do five installs to test one image... but I can't not agree :P
[23:29] <len-k> Also, the settings for unity, gnomeshell and cinnamon might collide.
[23:29] <zequence> Yea
[23:30] <len-k> Same with xfce/lxde
[23:30] <len-k> At the very most it would have to be tested as a user per DE.
[23:31] <len-k> s/most/least ?
[23:33] <zequence> the pulseaudio fix just got uploaded
[23:33] <zequence> len-k: You want to know a cool command? rmadison <package>
[23:34] <zequence> It checks for all the supported versions of the package in all existing Ubuntu releases, and all the pockets too
[23:38] <len-k> in devscripts.
[23:41]  * len-k needs a script to add all of these things every time he does an install
[23:41] <zequence> Ah, yeah
[23:42] <zequence> I've been meaning to add that to our dev docs
[23:42] <zequence> Ubuntu has the package ubuntu-dev-tools
[23:42] <zequence> That's a good start, I suppose
[23:42] <zequence> There's really a lot that is useful, in some situations, so the list can easily be grown
[23:44] <zequence> PA was uploaded, but yet not built I think
[23:44] <zequence> I'll have a go at testing it tomorrow