/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/05/25/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

holsteinOvenWerks: i hope so04:12
OvenWerksholstein: dual monitors has been one of the missing links in our distro. Arandr has always been a temporary solution.04:36
OvenWerksAt least I knew that :)04:36
holsteinin xfce, it seems04:36
OvenWerksYa, but at the time even in unity.04:37
OvenWerksI am still not completely happy with what unity does either, but it is more usable04:38
holsteinwell, it works04:38
holsteinim not happy with unity much, but the tools function04:38
OvenWerksAs long as you want their default. Unity has the man power04:39
holsteinyup.. the dev team at work, and doing amazing things on short notice, i think04:39
OvenWerksI wonder what signal xorg sends when a second monitor shows up04:41
holsteinwe could ask the unity folks.. that works great in unity04:41
OvenWerksI am not sure if it is there or part of gnome.04:43
holsteinthats true.. could just come from upstream04:44
OvenWerksunity is still based on the gnome libs/settings04:44
holsteinfor now...04:44
holsteinwonder if that will change04:44
OvenWerkszequence should know if it works on gnome, he runs gnome shell04:45
OvenWerksI'll ask when next he is here.04:45
OvenWerksActually I should just look in xorg04:53
OvenWerksPlaying some more with xrandr and dual monitors.05:53
OvenWerkswell I'm pretending, I can get this video card to think I have hotpluged a monitor in by loading the greeen channel.05:55
OvenWerksI can see the possitions with arandr or xrandr (one is visual and the other numbers05:56
OvenWerksAnyway, the unity default of --right-of is probably best. It keeps the pannel on the same monitor, going --left-of moves the pannel to the second monitor.05:58
madeinkobaiaHi all, does someone have some news from zequence ?12:33
OvenWerksmadeinkobaia: I would guess that he went riding for the weekend and his server quit.13:45
OvenWerksyes it is unusual that he is not here13:46
madeinkobaiaOvenWerks : Hi Len, thanks for the feedback. Hope everything is ok by him side.14:01
OvenWerksyup14:06
OvenWerksTo be honest, it is good to think he is doing gomething other than looking at the computer14:08
madeinkobaiaOvenWerks : Yep, for sure.14:50
OvenWerkszequence: do you ever use dual monitors?14:57
zequenceReinstalling server, so that's why I haven't been online14:57
zequenceOvenWerks, I used to14:57
zequenceNot since I started using my TV as a monitor14:57
OvenWerksI was wondering if gnome shell has the same display set up as unity14:58
OvenWerksMainly if a hotpluged second monitor default to right-of14:58
zequenceIt used to be different anyway14:58
zequenceWell, not in that way though14:59
zequenceYou need to set it to be right of14:59
OvenWerksI am wondering if there is any reason not to default to right-of14:59
OvenWerksThat is is there any use case for mirror?15:00
OvenWerks(AKA same-as)15:00
zequenceIf there wasn't I don't think it would be given as an option15:01
zequenceAlso, it highly depends on your graphic card how you set that up15:01
OvenWerksI am thinking of free drivers (xrandr compatable)15:02
OvenWerkszequence: The mani plus I can see for same-as is that it doesn't change the screen size. (this is not strictly true but it has the least change anyway) It certainly uses the least amount of memory.15:17
holsteini think its interesting, on the heels of the open desktop support, to think about what cory was bringing up a few releases ago17:10
holsteinnot really having an actual "ubuntustudio".. but, what he said was PPA's17:10
holsteini didnt really understand that, since we couldnt be "official" and have ppa's.. but i was thinkin meta-packages17:11
holsteinits something we could discuss..17:11
holsteinit really upset me at the time, because we had only a few folks, and had scrambled to make iso testing happen, and put out some fires.. and he came in about 2 weeks before release time and made that suggestion17:12
holsteinafter we had already done all the work... but, i think its an interesting idea to entertain17:12
holsteinjust adding ubuntustudio to whatever distro you want17:12
holsteini dont think most folks understand how it works anyways.. like the last question in the support channel.. "running ubuntustudio on nonPAE"17:12
holsteinany, google search of ubuntu and nonPAE brings up tons of information... but if folks dont (and i really think they dont) realize that ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu, then i think its unclear where to look for help17:13
holsteinnot that going to meta-packages necessarily would simplify that and bring any clarity17:14
holsteinthe other option would be to have ubuntutsudio-unity, ubuntustudio-gnome.. iso's and meta packages17:14
holsteini dont think we have the man-power for that right now.. though the way it is suggested in the list makes sense.. if you want to test and support it, we can have it17:15
OvenWerksholstein: I think we are trying for a middle road :)17:31
OvenWerksWe really would like (and our users would like) to be able to offer custom installs17:31
OvenWerksThat is, not having to install all of the workflows, just those you need.17:32
OvenWerksThe DE options would be an extension of that.17:32
OvenWerksholstein: TBH, one of the biggest problems we have with the audio Workflow and installing it on other flavours... is getting RT/low latency to work OOTB17:33
OvenWerksI really don't know how this applies to othger workflows like video.17:34
OvenWerksI don't know if anyone in the linux world has really spent time optimizing a machine for video work (creation) aside from the game boys17:36
holsteinOvenWerks: i like the middle road, but i was just thinking, if it solved all the issues, and helped us, since we are small-ish17:36
holsteinwhat we do is challenging17:36
holsteinOvenWerks: getting that working on OSX ootb is challenging17:37
holsteinon windows.. etc17:37
OvenWerksThere are reatively few apps that use video realtime17:37
holsteinthe other OS's typically dont even have that option.. the "major" ones right now17:37
holsteiniso and android for example17:37
OvenWerksMaking Studio metas work right with other flavours could be chalenging too17:37
holsteinwhat we are taking on, strictly from a complete outside perspective is challenging17:37
OvenWerksYes.17:38
OvenWerksPackaging a DE meta allows control of things that might affect HW performance.17:39
OvenWerksThe downside is that the flavours come with a better asortment of desktop apps, but we would have to ship something pretty stripped as we do with xfce17:40
DarkEraA Studio distro shouldn't come with loads of desktop apps, so stripped down would be better18:10
holsteinwell, thats arguable, and comes up a lot18:11
OvenWerksDarkEra: holstein, if we are shipping DE metas they will have to stripped down. The question is where to draw that line.18:14
OvenWerkszequence: I think I am going to revive the ubuntustudio-menu meta.18:14
OvenWerksMy thinking is that we should be able to leave the DE menu setup mostly alone18:15
OvenWerksWe just want to replace multi-media, graphics etc. with our workflow bit.18:16
OvenWerksAlso I think people still install that meta expecting our new menu to be there18:16
OvenWerksholstein: would it be worthwhile adding extra app installers for some of the desktop stuff we don't ship?18:43
holsteinOvenWerks: maybe.. i mean, the software center *is* that app18:43
OvenWerksShould they be distro specific?18:43
holsteini think we should focus on the distro that we like, and support, and making that work well18:43
OvenWerksUSC is big ugly and slow... hope it gets better18:44
holsteinand go from there, as needed18:44
OvenWerksYa everything has to work with xfce.18:46
OvenWerksJust as a point of interest... Some of the packages like blender that crash X on studio seem to work fine in KDE18:54
OvenWerksSame machine.18:54
holsteinalso, is qt where we are heading?18:56
holsteinin general?18:56
OvenWerksWe? Ubuntu? It seems that way18:56
OvenWerksdebian? I don't know.18:56
holsteinthats true...18:57
OvenWerksStudio has to be able to run whatever the workflow items come in.18:57
OvenWerksSome apps can be picked and chosen by the lib they use because there is more than one18:57
OvenWerksI can't see us not including ardour because of what libs it uses though18:58
OvenWerks(as a quick example)18:58
OvenWerksI know mudita24 is not QT, but I need it for my sound card18:59
holsteinright19:00
holsteinim installing antergos right now... the new cinnarch19:02
holsteinyou get to choose from gnome, cinnamon, xfce and razorQT19:03
holsteinthe installer lets you choose that19:03
holsteinsuse does something like that as well.. i think thats a great idea, though, i can imagine the support gets challenging19:03
OvenWerksThats what we want to do, but are hoping to lean on the ubuntu flavour pretty heavy I think.19:04
OvenWerksIn other words our KDE, for example, will try to be as close to kubuntu as it can just with a few less apps19:05
OvenWerksxubuntu is already talking about offering a minimal and a "full" version as two isos19:06
* OvenWerks doesn't know how far from dream it is though19:07
OvenWerksholstein: from my POV, it would be great to have a meta that just fixes the RT/lowlatency stuff in the other flavours. Then just install Studio on top.19:09
OvenWerksOur ISO would then be xfce. An install time option could install kubuntu, gubuntu, lubuntu or ubuntu metas along with it.19:11
OvenWerkszequence: I was wondering if we could use a "replaces" in our low latency kernel?19:13
holsteinOvenWerks: im unclear why its not working19:13
holsteinOvenWerks: seems like if someone installs JACK, that should just happen19:13
holsteinjack, or the lowlatency kernel19:14
OvenWerksYa, but from the support channel it seems not.19:14
holsteinOvenWerks: and ardour19:14
holsteinthe #ardour channel*19:14
OvenWerksWe need more people, it takes time to install a flavour, install packages on top then test and trouble shoot19:15
holsteinyup19:15
holsteinim fine with volunteers coming along to help with each19:16
holsteini might be able to head up LXDE.. i do a lot with another LXDE distro19:16
OvenWerksSure. That should be the easiest19:16
holsteinmaybe we can talk falk into the KDE one19:16
holsteinget zequence on the gnome one19:17
holsteinOvenWerks: someone should look are razorQT19:17
holsteinis mate coming? or going?19:17
OvenWerksfalktx tends to want to hack at too many stock KDE apps.19:17
OvenWerksI would concider mate not an option. I would rather support cinnamon19:18
holsteinthats where i am as well, though cinammon might be on the way out19:18
OvenWerksLuke (from the mailing list) want to do a cinnamon version.19:19
holsteini like that idea19:19
OvenWerksIt could always turn into a gnome classic which may replace it19:19
DarkEracinnamon is great but on the other hand just a fork of gnome3/gnome shell19:19
holsteinchich could make it easier to deal with19:20
holsteinwhich*19:20
OvenWerksI know. But at least it uses up to date libs19:20
holsteinhey.. if someone wants to support it, i say let em19:20
DarkErai don't have a problem with it :)19:21
OvenWerksI think a lot of the stuff made for it would work with gnome 3 in classic mode anyway... (with the classic extension I guess)19:21
DarkErayou should ask glebihan about that, he's involved in mint19:22
DarkEraand cinnamon19:22
OvenWerksToo far down my list :) I will probably work on kde and maybe some lxde if needed19:23
DarkErahehehe :)19:24
OvenWerksI have partitions for xfce, lxde and kde on here now19:24
DarkErahow big are the partitions?19:25
DarkErai might need to add some myself soon, that's why i ask :)19:25
holsteinfor a testing install? 8 or 10 should do.. depends on what you want in there19:25
DarkEraonce Gnome 3 saucy is fixed i need to set up another one for sure 19:27
OvenWerksThey are all about 20g19:27
DarkEraOvenWerks, ok, cool :)19:27
OvenWerksI made them a bit bigger that needed in case I want to add some development stuff19:28
holsteinwith 20, you could test some audio sessions too, if needed19:28
holsteini think im going to setup some minimal ubuntu sessions in vbox on my big rig19:29
OvenWerkskubuntu for example is using 38%19:29
OvenWerksI have added the video meta so far19:29
DarkEraif my netbook wasn't so weak i would use that for dev stuff19:31
OvenWerksThats where I do mine.19:33
OvenWerksBut I do mostly settings and meta creation19:33
OvenWerkstext stuff19:33
DarkErawhat kind of netbook is it you have?19:37
OvenWerksAcer about 2-3 years old19:43
OvenWerks1G mem, 1.6Ghz single core19:43
DarkEraaspire one 150 ZG5?19:45
OvenWerksNo, it a 25019:49
OvenWerksThe fix for display not working that works for the 150 doesn't work for me :P19:49
zequenceI'm kind of starting to think perhaps offering settings for all DEs would be better than supplying metas for them21:30
zequenceAnd, there's a slight difference between the flavor meta, and the DE meta21:31
zequenceLike, there's a meta for XFCE, and one for Xubuntu desktop21:32
zequenceAlso, KDE, and Kubuntu21:32
zequenceet21:32
zequenceetc21:32
zequenceWell, just a thought so far21:32
OvenWerkszequence: It would certainly be nice to be able to just use what is available.22:06
OvenWerkszequence: either the free nvidio driver has been fixed or I have had a problem with our xfce install. It seems that any of the apps I have not been able to run in studio work ok in kubuntu.22:11
OvenWerksI have yet to install the lowlatency kernel, thats next22:12
OvenWerkszequence: kernel in kubuntu 3.9.0-2-generic, ours is 3.8.0-19-lowlatency?23:16
OvenWerksHuh, Jack won't start RT... Nothing in our meta install to add the user to audio. Can we add that to the audio meta install script?23:21
OvenWerksKmix is harder to change PA sink on than pavucontrol23:54

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